WiiU "Latte" GPU Die Photo - GPU Feature Set And Power Analysis

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Haha, nice one. XD

There were lots in here counting on them to deliver that "next gen" moment.

So we are here, where most of us with sense, knew after the console size was shown, it is a slight improvement over this gen. The optimist here were expecting the machine to be closer to PS4/X1 than to PS3/360 and it is not.

What? Exactly what do you mean here? I think it's been explained most of the visual improvements are the DLC ones but applied to the whole campaign.
In the video, the dev says that even after they took the improvements and spread them from the DLC to the whole game, in the end, the Wii U version is 'slightly ahead of the PC version'.

Also, you seem quick to minimize and belittle, but Bayonetta 2 and X look amazing. I'd put the Wii U firmly in between PS4 and PS3 as far as overall capability goes.
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
The Wii U should be renamed DOFC*

*
Depth Of Field Console

It's adding a nice touch on several games, beware of the over-use though, and i would like other effects now :p
 
The Wii U should be renamed DOFC*

*
Depth Of Field Console

It's adding a nice touch on several games, beware of the over-use though, and i would like other effects now :p
This and lots of other small tidbits puts it slighty ahead the current gen for me. The really good lighting in games like Nintendoland and now in Mario Kart and SMW, the fur in DK, the DOF in Pikmin etc. while maintaining a steady 60fps. I cannot translate it into Flops nor do i care. I get a positive Pixar like vibe from all these games. I like it.
 
Anyway to get back on topic there was one thing I kept forgetting to mention that I wanted to pass along. That was other than the duplicates in the die shot the other half to the idea I had about a dual graphics engine, or maybe something like Cypress was that Flipper/Hollywood had three rasterizers.




http://www.segatech.com/gamecube/overview/




I probably need to reiterate that my view is just an opinion since if/when we learn that Wii U does not have a dual engine, some of you won't try to come back later and say that I claimed it would have one.
If the GC and the Wii had 3 rasterizers... does that mean that they could render 3 polys/clock? O_O
Aren't rasterizers what limit the max. polygon throughput since they are what transform vertex into pixels?

If this is the case, then I think that this hardware is more difficult to understand as time passes than otherwise. I mean, how can the eDram on the WiiU used as L2 cache for the CPU have latencies comparable to the traditional sRam used on the Wii at the same clockspeed?
So many questions without a proper answer...

Refreshment.01 said:
So we are here, where most of us with sense, knew after the console size was shown, it is a slight improvement over this gen. The optimist here were expecting the machine to be closer to PS4/X1 than to PS3/360 and it is not.

What? Exactly what do you mean here? I think it's been explained most of the visual improvements are the DLC ones but applied to the whole campaign.
I can understand that as a fanboy you have some companies to deffend at all costs, but after seeing Bayonetta 2, X, Mario Kart and even Donkey Kong, it's pretty clear that the WiiU's graphics at this moment are much more advanced that anything the PS3/60 could do.
The difference between Bayonetta and Bayonetta 2 is absolutely huge, and yes, after seeing actual gameplay footage I think that Bayonetta 2 is much closer to PS4 than I ever thought the WiiU could ever be.
 
Haha, nice one. XD

There were lots in here counting on them to deliver that "next gen" moment.

So we are here, where most of us with sense, knew after the console size was shown, it is a slight improvement over this gen. The optimist here were expecting the machine to be closer to PS4/X1 than to PS3/360 and it is not.
So you're effectively saying that because Retro chose to produce a Donkey Kong game that somehow proves WiiU is at a certain level of performance? That's some of the most amazingly bad logic I've ever read. Then again it did originate from Van Owen apparently so there's no big surprise there.

Also I really doubt anyone who frequents this thread was going into E3 thinking WiiU was going to be closer to XBox One than XBox 360 on a pure performance level (let alone PS4 which is quite a way above XBox One).
 
So you're effectively saying that because Retro chose to produce a Donkey Kong game that somehow proves WiiU is at a certain level of performance? That's some of the most amazingly bad logic I've ever read.

Then again it did originate from Van Owen apparently so there's no big surprise there.
Like everyone in past threads said wait until Retro's game is revealed. It looks like DK Wii in HD.
 
Kart was above my expectations. Visually it absolutely curb stomps Sonic Racing.

Bayonetta was also above my expectations, but doesn't exactly scream next gen.

X was very solid as well, and taking into account the enormity of the open world and the draw distances, it could maybe ALMOST be mistaken for a PS4 game. Almost.


On the whole, while PS4/xbone will are far far more powerful, it doesn't appear that their games will be able to laughably outclass Wii U games the way PS360 games were able to laughably outclass Wii games (with VERY few exceptions).
 
A

A More Normal Bird

Unconfirmed Member
In the video, the dev says that even after they took the improvements and spread them from the DLC to the whole game, in the end, the Wii U version is 'slightly ahead of the PC version'.

Also, you seem quick to minimize and belittle, but Bayonetta 2 and X look amazing. I'd put the Wii U firmly in between PS4 and PS3 as far as overall capability goes.
I'd like a direct quote on what you've got in quotation marks there (can't watch the video atm). I know they tweaked things a bit beyond the DLC for the console versions and said it was "sharper" than the PC version, but the latter seems to be because they literally applied a sharpening filter along with refining the FXAA. There were things like SSAO that were completely different in the PC version and if they were present in the Wii-U port I would have thought more would have been made of it.
 
It seems that while some posters are disappointed in the graphics in some games, people seem to be generally more optimistic or comfortable about Wii U's capabilities. Bayonetta 2, X, and (shockingly) Mario Kart stood out to me, but there are other games like WW HD and 3D Mario World that has a very smooth visuals. There is also more of a focus for 1080p than expected. Now we just have to hope the userbase will considerably increase so that we will see even more impressive games in the future.

Saying that, I don't think we can determine the GFLOPS/SP count with what we saw. Performance wise, it seems at least a little beyond current-gen consoles.
The Wii U should be renamed DOFC*

*
Depth Of Field Console
So..
Z
It's adding a nice touch on several games, beware of the over-use though, and i would like other effects now :p
I agree. Anymore info you can share about the current state of Wii U's dev kits? ;)
 
I know the games are not near XB1 or PS4, no one has said that in this thread I believe.

All of this games are looking great in motion, and they got a certain vibe right, that I don't know how to describe, specially Mario Kart 8, SSB and Wind Waker HD. They look vivid and alive.

Bayo2 is delivering and at 60fps, and X is looking to be huge, yes technically some textures and jaggies show up, but I think that game will look and play amazing. It is still WIP, and even if they keep this issues it looks amazing in motion.

Pikmin 3 at night is something special. It is a mixed bag graphically, sometimes it looks really amazing, but others its wii origins show.

As a personal opinion, I think diminishing returns is true. Not that BF4, Destiny, The Division or Infamous look amazing, but from this generation and on, art and gameplay will play a bigger role, at least for me.
 
Man, so much hope pinned on what Retro was working on. Not just here, but in the WUST threads, in most fan's wishlists. So much for a game in line with the PS3/360 market. We get a Donkey Kong. Which some people had predicted IN JEST. Hahahaha.

Funny how the graphics showcase for the console is Mario Kart. It is looking mighty fine. Does anyone know if it runs at 1080p?
 
Still wondering whether Retro have actually got two projects on the go. Their recent hires and the persistent rumours would suggest something other than DKC, and the new DKC - while looking gorgeous - seems to me as though it could be something that started life on Wii before being shifted to Wii U.

Perhaps not - after all, NLG did spend years on Luigi's Mansion 2, so Nintendo's push for exceptional quality could mean DKC:TF is all Retro have on the go, but I wouldn't be too surprised if it turned out there were a pair of projects cooking over in Austin.
 
I know the games are not near XB1 or PS4, no one has said that in this thread I believe.

All of this games are looking great in motion, and they got a certain vibe right, that I don't know how to describe, specially Mario Kart 8, SSB and Wind Waker HD. They look vivid and alive.

Bayo2 is delivering and at 60fps, and X is looking to be huge, yes technically some textures and jaggies show up, but I think that game will look and play amazing. It is still WIP, and even if they keep this issues it looks amazing in motion.

Pikmin 3 at night is something special. It is a mixed bag graphically, sometimes it looks really amazing, but others its wii origins show.

As a personal opinion, I think diminishing returns is true. Not that BF4, Destiny, The Division or Infamous look amazing, but from this generation and on, art and gameplay will play a bigger role, at least for me.
Well, you know I disagree with you. I don't doubt that in the near future the difference will be bigger than it is, but at this point, the WiiU is closer to the PS4 than to the PS3.

I mean, compare Bayonetta 2 with Bayonetta and then grab some random Xbox One game like Killer Instinct or Call of Dutty Ghosts, and tell me that the WiiU is closer to PS3 than to Xbone again ;)

This is Bayonetta (1) in the final boss battle (xbox 360 so the comparison can be more fair):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOApupBvKvg

And this is Bayonetta 2 at this stage of the developement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_2_E-QbvQE

Now even knowing that an off-screen video will look of course better than gameplay directly recorded from the video source, it's still pretty clear that Bayonetta 2 outclasses the first installment in every single way, and by a GREAT margin.
 
During the Square Enix - The Future Q&A Session, a number of user questions have been addressed.

FFXV is being developed using DirectX 11, so porting between PS4 and Xbox One would be easy; and the game has ground and air battles. The Xbox One version will be released worldwide, including Japan.

The reason the game title changed to Final Fantasy XV was because the game has expanded with an epic story, and a larger team is working on the game. With the expansion, the game evolved to take advantage of the next-gen platforms, the main story and world will continue to develop as planned, the game's action, gameplay elements and graphics will be further improved.

Square Enix is not talking about future titles in the FF series at the moment, so cannot say if the FF series becomes action game in future. They believe there is a future for both action RPG and command / turn based RPGs.

There is no plans for a Wii U version of FFXV or Kingdom Hearts 3, because both games are being developed using DirectX 11 and Wii U is not compatible with it.

Square Enix also released an official E3 announcement trailer of Final Fantasy XV (formerly Final Fantasy Versus XIII), which will be heading to PS4 and Xbox One.
I am sad if this is true and there is no direct x11
 
Still wondering whether Retro have actually got two projects on the go. Their recent hires and the persistent rumours would suggest something other than DKC, and the new DKC - while looking gorgeous - seems to me as though it could be something that started life on Wii before being shifted to Wii U.

Perhaps not - after all, NLG did spend years on Luigi's Mansion 2, so Nintendo's push for exceptional quality could mean DKC:TF is all Retro have on the go, but I wouldn't be too surprised if it turned out there were a pair of projects cooking over in Austin.
This sounds a bit like a pipedream/ being in denial, but the same thought has crossed my mind. I would love for it to be the case but Im not expecting it. I actually think the game could have started its life on 3ds because if you remember the 3ds reveal video there were dk barrels flying out of the 3ds and that is the only "hint" in that video that hasnt ended up being a game.
 
Well, you know I disagree with you. I don't doubt that in the near future the difference will be bigger than it is, but at this point, the WiiU is closer to the PS4 than to the PS3.

I mean, compare Bayonetta 2 with Bayonetta and then grab some random Xbox One game like Killer Instinct or Call of Dutty Ghosts, and tell me that the WiiU is closer to PS3 than to Xbone again ;)
You are using two of the worst possible examples. Call of Duty Ghosts, really?
 
YOU MUST BE BLIND DUDE
For clarification, I think DKC:TF looks stunning and I expect the final game to look at least as good as the best the PS3/360 had to offer in similar genres, but - like Pikmin 3 - I think it has a look that strongly suggests it started life as a Wii project, or at least on Wii-level hardware while Wii U hardware was being finalised. Compare that with something like MK8 or X which both look like they have been developed with Wii U hardware in mind all along.
 
I am sad if this is true and there is no direct x11
This is such a bull statement, it has nothing to do with running DX11. PS4 doesn't run DX either as far as I know. And if they're talking about the toolset, the difference between the DX10.1+ features WiiU supports, to DX11 is marginal. The biggest improvement lies in the tesselator, which WiiU actually does support.
 
Well, you know I disagree with you. I don't doubt that in the near future the difference will be bigger than it is, but at this point, the WiiU is closer to the PS4 than to the PS3.

I mean, compare Bayonetta 2 with Bayonetta and then grab some random Xbox One game like Killer Instinct or Call of Dutty Ghosts, and tell me that the WiiU is closer to PS3 than to Xbone again ;)

This is Bayonetta (1) in the final boss battle (xbox 360 so the comparison can be more fair):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOApupBvKvg

And this is Bayonetta 2 at this stage of the developement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_2_E-QbvQE

Now even knowing that an off-screen video will look of course better than gameplay directly recorded from the video source, it's still pretty clear that Bayonetta 2 outclasses the first installment in every single way, and by a GREAT margin.
I am very optimistic about Wii U and love the system, don't get me wrong, and I believe that graphics is not a concern for Wii U, but I cannot deny that the best looking games that were playable: Destiny, The Division, BF 4, Infamous look a lot better. I do think that they can be done on the Wii U with compromises that for many people would not matter.

A lot of people were happy with the late gen graphics, including myself, and I believe a lot in diminishing returns.


Edit: About Deus Ex HR. A preview someone did can not remember the site, is a user here, said there was a lack of AA. Got it now, find it here http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=61064477

In
http://www.gamespot.com/e3/deus-ex-hr-directors-cut-and-the-fall-e3-2013-stage-demo-6409852/
they state that they improved a lot on the AA, the game is looking great and the use of gamepad too, while also providing off tv play, Day 1 for me, did not play the game, just the original.
 
Wrong fucking thread.

Mario Kart 8 finally has a 'grown-up' environment lighting model. Thank goodness. It's the best lighting I've seen on Wii U yet (and yes, I'm aware of Zombiu). High res self and ground shadows.

Nintendo game artstyles aren't really comparable to any other game I can recall on other platforms. It's their biggest advantage. Graphics kind of don't matter.

I will say though that stills aren't very flattering for the Wii U games, and makes them look far closer to this gen with the lowres muddled textures and models and whatnot. A lot of games unfortunately do have very shitty lighting. It makes me wonder what Nintendo is really struggling with if only one of their titles has anything that screams Current Gen.
 
Man, so much hope pinned on what Retro was working on. Not just here, but in the WUST threads, in most fan's wishlists. So much for a game in line with the PS3/360 market. We get a Donkey Kong. Which some people had predicted IN JEST. Hahahaha.

Funny how the graphics showcase for the console is Mario Kart. It is looking mighty fine. Does anyone know if it runs at 1080p?
Mario Kart runs in 1080p.

And a small group of people are working on Metroid, I believe.
 
Mario Kart runs in 1080p.

And a small group of people are working on Metroid, I believe.
Your name makes me want to believe you... but I don't know you...

I know the direct said that Windwaker HD was in 1080p and that it loads the entire ocean at once... beyond that I haven't seen any mention of the actual resolutions of any of the games in the direct.
 
Man, so much hope pinned on what Retro was working on. Not just here, but in the WUST threads, in most fan's wishlists. So much for a game in line with the PS3/360 market. We get a Donkey Kong. Which some people had predicted IN JEST. Hahahaha.
I think its often over looked how complex DKCR was. When we first saw it I think it was easy to dismiss because especially coming from Retro, it didn't look as impressive as say, Prime 3. However I saw this interview:

"Retro: Each level in DKCR contains about three times the detail of an average Metroid Prime 3 room, as far as the texture count and poly count. That has required us to really ramp up our technology to support that. We're playing on the same platform, but with three times the content in any given level"
http://www.ign.com/articles/2010/06/17/e3-2010-kensuke-tanabe-and-the-metroid-palm-tree?page=2

It smells a little bit like PR considering its comparing polygons and textures of a room to a whole level and not what is on the screen at any given time. However I think his point remains that the DKCR engine is possibly 2-3x more powerful than MP3. I think that technical feat was lost on most people though and the same might be for this new game.

That said, I think most people agree that they'd like to see Retro be like the Naughty Dog for Nintendo. However I think Nintendo understands that games sells systems and their E3 showing lines up really well with this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_video_games


Lastly I'd like to say I've kept up with this whole thread and thoroughly enjoyed the discussion and learned a lot! I wanted to find the actual page and quote but I remember a detailed explanation of how much processing power and resources it would take to port a current PS/360 gen game at 720p 30 fps to 1080p 60 fps. Again I apologize for not linking the detailed explanation but the short answer was a lot. So much so that there would not be a ton left over if say PS4/XBone were to do this?

I bring it up because I was hoping someone more knowledgeable than me could extrapolate and say how Smash Bros Wii u 1080p 60 fps fits into the competing theories of the GPU composition. Thanks
 
Mario Kart runs in 1080p.

And a small group of people are working on Metroid, I believe.
I might be viewing this from a resized image, but all signs are pointing to this game being 720p. If anyone has access to the press kit, PLEASE let me know.

Your name makes me want to believe you... but I don't know you...

I know the direct said that Windwaker HD was in 1080p and that it loads the entire ocean at once... beyond that I haven't seen any mention of the actual resolutions of any of the games in the direct.
This is the ONLY game on their E3 website which SPECIFICALLY lists 1080p; something that Nintendo avoids saying if it isn't true.

EDIT: Here is a native 1080p screenshot. It seems as though the RT-shadows only work up to a certain distance. Look at the halo around the beggar.
http://images.vg247.com/current//2013/06/Zelda-Wind-Waker-HD-1.jpg
 
I might be viewing this from a resized image, but all signs are pointing to this game being 720p. If anyone has access to the press kit, PLEASE let me know.
The Press Kit sizes are 720p for MK8 and Smash Bros, but WWHD is 1080p, although it has been announced that Smash will be in 1080p(see post above), so we'll see in the future I guess.
 
I bring it up because I was hoping someone more knowledgeable than me could extrapolate and say how Smash Bros Wii u 1080p 60 fps fits into the competing theories of the GPU composition. Thanks
There's a quote from Sakurai last year, I believe, where he states that in making the new Smash Bros, their first order of business was to get Brawl up and running on Wii U. So basically, I think that's what they did while targeting 1080p/60fps and are going to increase effects and such as much as they can from there.
 
I might be viewing this from a resized image, but all signs are pointing to this game being 720p. If anyone has access to the press kit, PLEASE let me know.
Well the .bmp images of the press kit are - wonderful - in 720p. BUT, from the same source, the screens of SSB U are also in 720p. Also, they're still uploading the files (no WW screens to check).

Guys, those screenshots are amazing.
 
I have access to the Press Kit and the sizes are 720p for MK8 and Smash Bros, but WWHD is 1080p, although it has been announced that Smash will be in 1080p(see post above), so we'll see in the future I guess.
would you kindly provide me with access to that kit?
EDIT: It seems as though Nintendo themselves have confirmed that Smash Bros. for Wii U runs at 1080p. This is probably a rather stupid question to ask, but it DOES run 60FPS, right?
 
Like everyone in past threads said wait until Retro's game is revealed. It looks like DK Wii in HD.
Because it basically is.


Mario Kart 8 finally has a 'grown-up' environment lighting model. Thank goodness. It's the best lighting I've seen on Wii U yet (and yes, I'm aware of Zombiu). High res self and ground shadows.

Could someone point me to where in the footage of Mario Kart 8 we've seen, all this new lighting stuff is? I'm not knocking it cause I think it looks quite nice but it doesn't look amazing to me from what I've seen. Maybe I've seen the wrong footage?
 
So you're effectively saying that because Retro chose to produce a Donkey Kong game that somehow proves WiiU is at a certain level of performance? That's some of the most amazingly bad logic I've ever read. Then again it did originate from Van Owen apparently so there's no big surprise there.

Also I really doubt anyone who frequents this thread was going into E3 thinking WiiU was going to be closer to XBox One than XBox 360 on a pure performance level (let alone PS4 which is quite a way above XBox One).
Bolded: That's entirely your creation Donnie. It's a gigantic asumption on your part that i can't begin to comprenhend how you reached that conclusion from my post. But if it makes you feel better about your inclinations then... great.

Italic: The Nintendo inclined that frequent the thread (most of them) where thinking just that before the console's launch and the reveal of the competition. But like we have seen since the Wii the goal posts and excuses are changing constantly.
 
I think its often over looked how complex DKCR was. When we first saw it I think it was easy to dismiss because especially coming from Retro, it didn't look as impressive as say, Prime 3. However I saw this interview:
Side scrolling 3D is never as impressive as open world. Like, if this DK was completely open world like a Mario Galaxy, even if it had the same detail level (poly counts, texture resolutions etc but with resources having to be stretched across a larger area) it would be more impressive.
 
A

A More Normal Bird

Unconfirmed Member
Edit: About Deus Ex HR. A preview someone did can not remember the site, is a user here, said there was a lack of AA. Got it now, find it here http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=61064477

In
http://www.gamespot.com/e3/deus-ex-h...-demo-6409852/
they state that they improved a lot on the AA, the game is looking great and the use of gamepad too, while also providing off tv play, Day 1 for me, did not play the game, just the original.
There's AA but it's post, which is still a step-up from the PS3/360 versions but isn't going to clean up the image as much as MSAA or going 1080p would.

I might be viewing this from a resized image, but all signs are pointing to this game being 720p. If anyone has access to the press kit, PLEASE let me know.


This is the ONLY game on their E3 website which SPECIFICALLY lists 1080p; something that Nintendo avoids saying if it isn't true.

EDIT: Here is a native 1080p screenshot. It seems as though the RT-shadows only work up to a certain distance. Look at the halo around the beggar.
http://images.vg247.com/current//201...Waker-HD-1.jpg
I don't think that's a distance thing, Skyrim has the same problem and it occurs on all shadows. There's a mod that can fix it using a bilateral shadow filter, and that particular function of the mod isn't too performance heavy, so there's a chance it may be fixed in WW.
 
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