PS3 boots a lot faster than PS2, unless you are talking about game boot instead of the system boot.
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Will next gen consoles have instant-on capabilities, like handhelds?
- Thread starter Oppo
- Start date
PS3 boots a lot faster than PS2, unless you are talking about game boot instead of the system boot.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
No it doesn't.
Booting to the XMB is the same as booting the PS2 with the lid open (ie, takes you to the menu instead of starting the game).
Just tried it, my PS2 goes from off to menu screen in about 5 seconds. XMB loads in about 22 seconds. Now, maybe math is different where I live but I believe that 5 is less than 22.
bgassassin
Member
This has been semi-confirmed for Wii U. I say that based on the ability to go to chat (messageboard or video), and then return to the game. It would seem plausible this could be done the same as what the OP says.
A Twisty Fluken
Member
These are the kinds of usability tweaks that can make a huge difference in satisfaction with a system. Similar to noise levels. I hate waiting around.
Oppo
Member
The XMB does not take 22 seconds to load.
You can X through the warning.
That's like in game XMB, not like actual sleep mode though.
Snowden's Secret
Banned
I'm sure I'm severly beaten on this but Wii U has "always on" or whatever. Miyamoto even cited that as one of the key inspirations for the machine.
bgassassin
Member
Cool. Thanks for the clarification.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
OK, I'll cheat and X through the warning to see if it comes in at less than 5 seconds but if it doesn't, are you going to admit that the PS2 loads faster?
I obviously couldn't X through the warning since it took 22 seconds again while I button mashed X on the remote control (not the controller). Either way, at 5 seconds, there isn't even a video signal yet.
phosphor112
Banned
Yes. Anyone who is saying no doesn't know what they are talking about. These devices will use a lot less power when idle, they will become more accessible because they want people to turn the device on more and wait less.
Oppo
Member
No actually you have a good point. I went and checked myself just to make sure I knew what I was talking about, and while I didn't get 22 seconds, I got 18, which sort of makes your point. And that's just to XMB; probably another minute to the actual game at least.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Yes.
Why, because i said so.
End this damn thread, what are we going to achieve honestly speculating on devices we know very very little about.
Everyones answer is nothing but speculation.
Why, because i said so.
End this damn thread, what are we going to achieve honestly speculating on devices we know very very little about.
Everyones answer is nothing but speculation.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
This is a discussion board, what we achieve is discussion.
There's basically three separate problems here, none of which is getting solved in the way you want.
System hibernation to HDD is cheap and easy to implement, but it's a massive security mess (you're reading unencrypted code and data from an insecure medium), relies on free HDD space, and does nothing that having quicksave/quickresume as part of TRCs doesn't.
System hibernation to onboard flash is more secure, quicker, but nowhere near overall speed benefit of using the same flash as a cache, like the OG Xbox used its HDD. Also it's expensive on the scale of around a billion dollars plus.
System sleep is cheap, mostly secure, probably not too hard to implement the software side of, but involves leaving the RAM and associated hardware turned on while shutting off the CPU and GPU. However, if you're pushing the heat and power envelope to begin with, leaving major components turned on indefinitely isn't a great idea.
System hibernation to HDD is cheap and easy to implement, but it's a massive security mess (you're reading unencrypted code and data from an insecure medium), relies on free HDD space, and does nothing that having quicksave/quickresume as part of TRCs doesn't.
System hibernation to onboard flash is more secure, quicker, but nowhere near overall speed benefit of using the same flash as a cache, like the OG Xbox used its HDD. Also it's expensive on the scale of around a billion dollars plus.
System sleep is cheap, mostly secure, probably not too hard to implement the software side of, but involves leaving the RAM and associated hardware turned on while shutting off the CPU and GPU. However, if you're pushing the heat and power envelope to begin with, leaving major components turned on indefinitely isn't a great idea.
Brad Grenz
Member
Exactly. The whole concept for the Xbox 720 in the leaked presentation is about a system that is literally always on. Your Rou and DVR never turn off, and MS wants the 720 to replace both for everyone.
Frankly, it's a bit silly that consoles released in 2005 and 2006 didn't have sleep capabilities comparable to at least the PSP. This is a sure thing feature for the next generation. We'll also get multitasking so it will save you game state exactly if you switch to Netflix, and potentially other games. No more needing to find a save point or going through a lengthy loading process every time you want to play again. The most recent PS4 spec rumors list 16GBs of flash and I assume it will be included to facilitate exactly this kind of functionality, much like the built in flash on the Vita.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
A discussion that is going nowhere because no one point is truly valid as it can neither be proved or disproved till more details are released.
One person says yes, the other says no.....ad nauseum.
But hey as you said its a forum.....As you were.
The ads will be in the games
same. To make it more likely for me to pop out of a game to check an incoming message or set the DVR etc, I want suspended game states. both 360 and PS3 already do this with being able to use the dashboard/XMB and jump back to the game. Just needs a slight extension and you're there.
There's the added problem that you will lose your progress if someone pulls the plug off the console. Consoles are also much less personal than portable devices, and someone else might shut the game down.
Hibernation to HDD is the only viable way, IMO. The security problems could be avoided by having hardware accelerated encryption while writing and reading from the hibernation file.
I actually think the Wii U will offer some kind of suspend mode, specially if you are using the Wii U controller screen instead of the tv
how would the gamepad screen work if the console was suspended?
jeff_rigby
Banned
Yes it's happening. The PS4 is rumored to have 16 gig Flash SSD memory as is the PS3 4000 chassis. EPA Energy Star third tier ratings for game consoles became active June 1, 2012 and they require 35 watts or less at an active menu screen. To do that the hard disk is put to sleep and the OS runs from Flash SSD memory. SSD memory is part of the building blocks AMD uses to build their SoCs for third parties like Sony for a game console SoC.
http://eda360insider.wordpress.com/2011/12/14/3d-week-driven-by-economics-its-now-one-minute-to-3d/ said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=488843
Sony has always had a snapshot boot and if run from SSD flash it will skip the boot process into the XMB menu or whatever the PS4 will have.
The encrypted file system solves the security mess.
Every single one of us has devices that do this today. System sleep is a solved problem.
You mean no one other than the people posting in this thread?
dgrdsv
Member
That's the thing. I have a deep knowledge of computer and console h/w but even I have problems with Vita's sleep mode. Unless they find a way to make it work without any problems for everyone it doesn't worth it.
I... wat
Oppo
Member
Such a curious sensation, when jeff_rigby shows up with an avalanche of data to dump on your head. Was an interesting read, that link. thanks Jeff, I agree.
This is mysterious to me – I play the Vita like this all the time (just sleeping it like an iPhone). It seems to stay "alive" in sleep mode for an ungodly amount of time, regardless of how I leave it. At least a week in my experience.
This is mysterious to me – I play the Vita like this all the time (just sleeping it like an iPhone). It seems to stay "alive" in sleep mode for an ungodly amount of time, regardless of how I leave it. At least a week in my experience.
jeff_rigby
Banned
There is more, much more. ATSC 2.0 is being implemented now, Non-Realtime-Transmission was enabled 2 months ago and full candidate status for ATSC 2.0 by quarter 1 2013. ATSC 2.0 is h.264 codec, 1080P, 3-D, X-tended TV with web access. h.265 is to be released Jan 2013. HTML5 <video> with playready DRM, WebMAF (Mozilla Application Framwork) for HTML5 apps, WebGL, SVG and accelerated "tiling" composition sometime sept-oct.
1) microsoft-sony.com
2) digitimes PS4 rumor (Must be a PS3 that was confused with a PS4)
3) Leaked Xbox 720 powerpoint document from 9/2010 which has the Xbox 361 coming this 2012 season. IF Oban 12/2011 then 9/2010 was after it was in the pipeline to be produced.
4) This patent and the timing in both filing and publishing XTV game support.
5) Both ps3 and Xbox 360 refresh must have a price reduction built in to allow a price reduction when the PS4 and Xbox 720 are released. This is already possible for the Xbox 360 but the PS3 would NEED a massive redesign to put both CPU and GPU on the same silicon.
6) Sony 2010 1PPU4SPU patent
7) Elizabeth Gerhard's Projects (IBM employee) and an International project involving the Xbox 360 @ 32nm and NO design work for a PS3 refresh at 32nm
8) Oban = large blank Japanese Coin => Is Oban for both the PS3 and Xbox 361 (Microsoft making the chip for Sony using 1PPU3SPU CPU packages instead of just PPUs )
9) Both having browsers at the same time for the first time ever and both have a refresh at the same time for the first time ever
10) Sony depth camera patent (Timing, 9/2011 & again 2/2012)
11) Khronos Openmax 1.2 (Supports Gstreamer-openmax and camera, second Khronos Pdf mentioning Augmented Reality starting Sept 2012 leveraging the browser libraries
12) ATSC 2.0 *-* starts May 2012 thru 1st quarter 2013. *-* h.265 published for use Jan 2013. *-* Sony Nasne *-* RVU support for the PS3 announced by Verizon and Direct TV
13) Energy Star third tier game console voluntary requirements
14) Information on Next generation game console technology
Brad Grenz
Member
Instant on and sleeping is the kind of feature that will wow Joe Average. It's a feature they didn't know they wanted and never thought to ask if it was even possible. It will seem like the most obvious thing in the world in hind sight given what phones and ipads are doing, but still stick out as truly "next gen". Joe Average thought physical keyboards for texting were the bee's knees, too, until Apple showed the world the potential of a touch screen.
Canis lupus
Member
One of the reasons I detest booting my ps3, it takes a long time. Why did they add a health warning?
jeff_rigby
Banned
They added a health warning to the XMB because the XMB is soon going to have features that are similar to games that can cause the same issues. 3-D XMB is a possibility when it's supported by eGL which is necessary if you want webview windows from the XMB driven by an accelerated Webkit2 which can support 3-D and playing WebGL games. Some of the games from the browser and some from XMB applications to allow "Live" (gamer lounge and launch like Vita).
If joe average real world gamer is NOT like gaffers then why would you judge by the amount of posts on neogaf?
It would be an enormous mistake to forego some improvement or mitigation of the boot-up problem. There's simply no excuse for waiting 30 seconds just to select a game from the menu.
As others have said, my computers and my AppleTV respond instantly and are only rebooted perhaps once every 2 or 3 months. Consoles will undoubtedly start to look archaic in comparison to other devices if they don't take instant-wake seriously (or at least steps in that direction).
As others have said, my computers and my AppleTV respond instantly and are only rebooted perhaps once every 2 or 3 months. Consoles will undoubtedly start to look archaic in comparison to other devices if they don't take instant-wake seriously (or at least steps in that direction).
HamPster PamPster
Member
With video services like Netflix and Amazon the consoles should have a pause feature like the Vita so I can just jump out of my game if someone else wants to watch something.
That said I can't remember if the vita can pause a game and run netflix at the same time
That said I can't remember if the vita can pause a game and run netflix at the same time