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[LordGouda]

After beating Wind Waker HD again, for like the umpteenth time, I've always enjoyed the Ganondorf fight. Although he didn't have a second phase, in my opinion, it's the best fight in the entire series. It was also the most tragic.

Hear me out.

For all intents and purposes, everything here is a spoiler, so continue reading if you so dare:

Ganondorf at the end tells Link that he coveted the winds blowing in Hyrule Field, as it brought life where the wind in the Gerudo Valley brought death. It was harsh for him growing up and you can see why he wanted to take over Hyrule, he wanted what the Hylians had for not only him, but for his people.

However, after his defeat and resurrection, he lost it all.

He didn't even want to kill Link and Zelda/Tetra, even though he knew they were there to stop him. It makes him seem more rounded as a character than he once was in Ocarina of Time. He didn't desire to kill, he just wanted to see the land he wanted so much back to life and under his control.

He's still evil and all, but it's more of a tragic villain. He did it all just to bring back the land he loved so much. When he was interrupted by the King of Red Lions, you could see he sort of... well, snapped. Here, he has the most powerful tool in existence, the Triforce, and bring back old Hyrule, but he was too late. When the king made the sea start to drown the kingdom, he knew he could never win and so he snapped.

He knew that if he would die, he wanted to die knowing he killed the two kids who stood in his way and make sure they feel the pain he's going through.

Yet, it didn't matter. He died and spoke that the winds were blowing. This hits you as you think, "Could he be talking about the winds of death?" Obviously you might think that as he dies, but maybe he's talking about the winds that Hyrule Field has that he wanted. Maybe those same winds blew to him and he felt it, right before he accepted his death. Is that why he doesn't appear in subsequent games in the Adult Timeline?

All in all, this Ganondorf is the best Ganondorf. Well, he is to me, at least. He's far better than Twilight Princess Ganondorf. Do you agree or disagree?

 

[Shun]

Yes and the King of Red Lions is better than Epona.

 

[Karsticles]

I don't want every villain to be a sympathetic character. I have never played Wind Waker, but I do not like him as described in your post. I much prefer his depiction in Hyrule Warriors.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

I don't think anybody feels differently or would disagree with you on this.

Edit: of course I am beaten by the resident dissenter.

 

[Dlent]

He really let himself go.

 

[Brazil]

I don't expect anyone to disagree with you there.

 

[Storm Kyleis]

Yes he is.

 

[BY2K]

He really let himself go.

How, though? What was there to eat in the Sacred Realm?

 

[shadowsdarknes]

He looks so unintimidating.

 

[thewhitehawk]

Hear me out.

Why? It's factual, he simply is. I bought both the Windwaker Wii U, sold my code and the collector's edition Wind Waker HD with the Ganondorf statue because he's that good. I've never done that ever for anything.

It's ironic to me that in most games Ganondorf is more of a cartoon villain than anything, and in Wind Waker, where he's actually cartoonish, he is the most threatening and actively threatening than he ever felt in any other Zelda game.

 

[Solid SOAP]

Yep. I've never cared for Ganondorf as a villain because of how basic he is portrayed in most games. I'm pretty sure in OoT he literally says "I am evil" or something of the sort.

He's awesome in Wind Waker though. Actually well written.

 

[Kyzon]

I'm partial to this

 

[Secret Fawful]

I don't want every villain to be a sympathetic character. I have never played Wind Waker, but I do not like him as described in your post. I much prefer his depiction in Hyrule Warriors.

I'd be interested in a post detailing why you think he has as much depth in Hyrule Warriors as he does in his Wind Waker portrayal.

 

[HaterIsHating]

I don't want every villain to be a sympathetic character. I have never played Wind Waker, but I do not like him as described in your post. I much prefer his depiction in Hyrule Warriors.

Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf is the best Ganondorf.

 

[LordGouda]

I don't want every villain to be a sympathetic character. I have never played Wind Waker, but I do not like him as described in your post. I much prefer his depiction in Hyrule Warriors.

I get your view point, but this is the only time he's like this, in every other game he's pretty much the formulaic evil entity with little to no personality other than being evil. I don't have HW so I can't really say how he is compared to WW Ganon.

 

[IDKAboutThat]

Him and Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf are both fantastic

 

[Brazil]

I get your view point, but this is the only time he's like this, in every other game he's pretty much the formulaic evil entity with little to no personality other than being evil. I don't have HW so I can't really say how he is compared to WW Ganon.

He might as well not even exist in Hyrule Warriors.

 

[Nanashrew]

I detect no lies.

Really, he is the best Ganondorf. He's more human imo.

 

[Dr. Buni]

True, both in design and personality. That said, Ghirahim is better than any Ganondorf.

 

[A Dead Diehard]

In equally shocking news, the sea from Wind Waker is both blue AND wet.

Seriously, though. WW Ganon is awesome.

 

[LurkerPrime]

All in all, this Ganondorf is the best Ganondorf. Well, he is to me, at least. He's far better than Twilight Princess Ganondorf. Do you agree or disagree?

I'd say WW Ganondorf trumps TP Ganondorf (as I didn't even remember he was in it) but I still prefer Ocarina of Time Ganondorf over the rest for his sheer menace and intimidation factor. OOT built him up throughout the entire game as this grand, intimidating, and powerful figure and when you finally, at last, manage to fight him lives up to this legend - a true final boss.

WW Ganondorf is a close second, though. They did some good stuff during that final stretch, as you outline.


If we're going purely by visuals then the Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf wins by a landslide. It's weird, but true.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

He's an alright guy. He'll even stop and let you take a selfie with him.

 

[PixyJunket]

There is much truth in the OP.

 

[Orochinagis]

I detect no lies.

Really, he is the best Ganondorf. He's more human imo.

Meh, I liked him more where he was just simply bad but anyway.

 

[McBryBry]

He's an alright guy. He'll even stop and let you take a selfie with him.

Link's expression during this slays me.

 

[Azure J]

Windwaker Ganondorf and Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf are the topmost tier. I sincerely hope that one day Smash Ganondorf takes a look at HW Ganondorf and steals that style both in play and look. We're (sadly) never getting Toon Ganondorf so might as well do that.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

He was more logical and less ferocious and arrogant compared to a lot of his other counterparts so I pretty much agree. Although I do not like Ganondorf much to begin with, fun to play as in HW though.

 

[PixyJunket]

He's an alright guy. He'll even stop and let you take a selfie with him.

This is magnificent.

 

[LordGouda]

I'm partial to this

That must be a bitch to comb.

 

[Ultimadrago]

Tell me something I didn't know!

 

[Fugu]

I think he's a pretty flat character in WW for the same reason I think he's a pretty flat character in basically every Zelda except for OoT, and it's because he seems to have no interaction with the plot whatsoever until the very end. Basically, you go into the game with Ganondorf already at the endgame of taking over the world; you're always his last hurdle and you don't really ever get to experience any kind of chase or him getting closer to his goals. OoT is the only Zelda I can think of where the tone and urgency take a direct shift as a result of his presence.

I will say, however, that his theme in WW is just about the peak of Zelda's distinguished music canon.

 

[Sting]

IDK if I think he's the best ever. But I did always like his design the most at the very least.

 

[Karsticles]

I'd be interested in a post detailing why you think he has as much depth in Hyrule Warriors as he does in his Wind Waker portrayal.

I never said he had depth in Hyrule Warriors. I just don't find that to be inherently important. Bowser has no depth AFAIK, but I love him. Some characters don't need any underlying and deep meaning. I've been gaming since the Atari, and I enjoyed huge swaths of games with no plot at all (or seemingly no plot, as in the case of the original Zelda).

I just tire of the notion that every villain has to be a sympathetic character. They don't have to be evil for the sake of evil like Ganondorf, but at least let them be evil. I like how the Shin Megami Tensei universe handles its conflicts, but I also like villains like Kefka and Sephiroth.

Ganondorf has always been evil for the sake of evil. Is it simplistic? Sure, but so was Samus as just a woman in armor running around killing metroids. Other M hurt her by adding character, and I feel the same happens with Ganondorf. I don't want him to have a tragic past, or a yearning to help others that is misunderstood. That's not who he is - don't change it.

Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf is the best Ganondorf.

To be completely fair, roughly 50% of how I judge a character is aesthetics. Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf looks like a badass (in contrast to Grandpadorf in Smash), so he wins my love.

I get your view point, but this is the only time he's like this, in every other game he's pretty much the formulaic evil entity with little to no personality other than being evil. I don't have HW so I can't really say how he is compared to WW Ganon.

Hyrule Warriors is pretty formulaic. He has his soul locked away, he tempts an innocent person to help him unlock it, he breaks free, steals the triforce, etc. It's really nothing special, but it is what Ganondorf has always been. If you accept the premise in Skyward Sword that Ganondorf is the reincarnation of Demise's spirit, making him a sympathetic character is actually ill-fitting of him. That's the only argument I can give beyond my own personal preference.

I'm okay with him being a megalomaniac who wants power just for the sake of power. If he gets any further development, though, I think it needs to be within that context. Reworking him is a poor choice.

Again, I have never even played WW, so I'm just going off of OP's description.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

He's an alright guy. He'll even stop and let you take a selfie with him.

the best

 

[SolVanderlyn]

I'm partial to LttP Ganon. While he barely appears or has much dialogue, his story is mostly told through the in-game history and ambient storytelling; when you get to the Dark World, and you're introduced bit by bit to its twisted reflection of Ganon's heart, you come to know his character and his villainous nature. He also succeeded in obtaining the Triforce.

 

[Mifec]

TP link and Ganondorf are the best :3

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Ganondorf always came off as a bit of a shallow antagonist. Sort of like many games, he is just a bad guy that needs to be stopped and you're the hero who can stop him. So sure, probably the best is wind waker (although I haven't played every zelda game ever). Just not saying much imo.

 

[iShouldGoPro]

He's an alright guy. He'll even stop and let you take a selfie with him.

Haha this is amazing

 

[NeonZ]

I think he's a pretty flat character in WW for the same reason I think he's a pretty flat character in basically every Zelda except for OoT, and it's because he seems to have no interaction with the plot whatsoever until the very end. Basically, you go into the game with Ganondorf already at the endgame of taking over the world; you're always his last hurdle and you don't really ever get to experience any kind of chase or him getting closer to his goals. OoT is the only Zelda I can think of where the tone and urgency take a direct shift as a result of his presence.

Huh? But Wind Waker has Hyrule being unfrozen and Ganondorf leaving for there with his forces, and afterwards Tetra kidnapped. Aside from taking the Triforce midway through, it's comparable to what he had in OoT.

 

[Ryouji Gunblade]

Best as in the most kindhearted. He puts away his sword to hit Zelda. How thoughtful.

Best Ganondorf is Hyrule Warriors.

 

[Ultimadrago]

He's an alright guy. He'll even stop and let you take a selfie with him.

That boy Ganondorf mad offended.

 

[LordGouda]

I think he's a pretty flat character in WW for the same reason I think he's a pretty flat character in basically every Zelda except for OoT, and it's because he seems to have no interaction with the plot whatsoever until the very end. Basically, you go into the game with Ganondorf already at the endgame of taking over the world; you're always his last hurdle and you don't really ever get to experience any kind of chase or him getting closer to his goals. OoT is the only Zelda I can think of where the tone and urgency take a direct shift as a result of his presence.

I will say, however, that his theme in WW is just about the peak of Zelda's distinguished music canon.

I disagree on that.

From the beginning of the game, he's been involved. He's the reason why your sister, Aryll, is kidnapped. You go to find her, you get taken by the giant bird, shows you to Ganondorf and he just orders the bird to toss you away as if you're nothing.

Later on, you find out he did something to weaken the Master Sword and even when you restore its power, he has regained his full power. He disappears and you find out Zelda was kidnapped, he was biding his time that entire time.

He was always there, just like in OoT. However, he was much more involved with not only the characters, but even before the game began. It was stated that the girls that look like Aryll have been kidnapped for a while now. Granted, it's still the OoT Ganondorf but more patient and less hotheaded than he once was.

 

[Nanashrew]

Meh, I liked him more where he was just simply bad but anyway.

OoT Ganondorf? Technically, WW Ganondorf is the same person just leading a different life.

 

[Karsticles]

Ganondorf always came off as a bit of a shallow antagonist. Sort of like many games, he is just a bad guy that needs to be stopped and you're the hero who can stop him. So sure, probably the best is wind waker (although I haven't played every zelda game ever). Just not saying much imo.

I think it's less that he's shallow, and more that he's uninvolved with the stories. He tends to have spotty appearances, whereas great villains throughout time are recurring throughout the story in a variety of fashions.

I actually think it would be fantastic if a Zelda game had more of a "military campaign" feel like Hyrule Warriors, and Ganondorf had things like lieutenants and camps that you had to deal with throughout the story. It's always kind of weird that he appears, takes Zelda, and then says "Come get me!" Then he patiently waits for Link to become powerful enough to win. I'd like an aggressive Ganondorf that you have to defend against.

 

[MagiusNecros]

HW Dorf is best Dorf.

Ganondorf has always used his lineage as a Gerudo and wanting to help his people as simply a stepping stone to further his own ambition.

Spoiler

Which is coupled with Demise's Hatred twisting that desire for Power into what is the Demon King.

It isn't until Ganon emerges that we see the true Demon King.

That said I stand with Ganondorf. For he needs our support more then ever against that dumb Zelda bloodline.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

OoT Ganondorf? Technically, WW Ganondorf is the same person just leading a different life.

WW and TP Ganon are the same Ganondorf leading different lives, but both of them are the same as OoT Ganon, at least up to the end of the childhood segment of the game. I know this is just arguing semantics, but still.

I do like how WW Ganondorf seems almost humbled and introspective compared to TP Ganondorf, who is essentially the same as he was in OoT. You can see the difference in the Ganon who tried to take over Hyrule, briefly succeeded, and then had it taken away from him, and the Ganon who planned to take over Hyrule but never got the chance. TP Ganon is still eager to seize glory, while WW Ganon is more willing (or perhaps has been forced to) sit back and think before acting.

 

[Secret Fawful]

I don't really see how WW Ganondorf is a sympathetic character, but I do think he is a well-rounded character with goals and beliefs and regrets instead of a cardboard cutout, and that makes him more interesting and only improves and benefits the world he exists in. I don't think Ganondorf is entirely one-dimensional in OOT either, but that's because you see how his rule changes the world for the worse in grand ways and intimate ways and that teaches you more about him. He's still somewhat one-dimensional but not entirely. It's not just that he's evil for evil's sake, but WW shows that there is more there than just that.

 

[Yabberwocky]

Wind Waker Ganondorf was fantastic. (Ditto to ol' King Red.) I still don't understand what happened to the Wind Waker writing team. Did someone at Nintendo break out in hives at "I coveted that wind, I suppose"? Is there now a rule where anyone who tries to write anything subtle gets locked in the Nintendo Vault? What happened there?

While TP Ganondorf is great, once you go Hyrule Warriors, it's hard to go back. Going into a Keep with The Dorf, and one-shotting everything with his C6 and his glorious hair is way too satisfying. Even in Smash Bros, I miss the hair.

I'm looking forward to seeing Ganondorf's Zelda Wii U design. He must show up in some way, surely, especially with Link wearing those Gerudo motifs.

 

[Icyflamez96]

I'd say WW Ganondorf trumps TP Ganondorf (as I didn't even remember he was in it) but I still prefer Ocarina of Time Ganondorf over the rest for his sheer menace and intimidation factor. OOT built him up throughout the entire game as this grand, intimidating, and powerful figure and when you finally, at last, manage to fight him lives up to this legend - a true final boss.

WW Ganondorf is a close second, though. They did some good stuff during that final stretch, as you outline.


If we're going purely by visuals then the Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf wins by a landslide. It's weird, but true.

I always thought Ganondorf looked lame until this design

 

[Nanashrew]

WW and TP Ganon are the same Ganondorf leading different lives, but both of them are the same as OoT Ganon, at least up to the end of the childhood segment of the game. I know this is just arguing semantics, but still.

I do like how WW Ganondorf seems almost humbled and introspective compared to TP Ganondorf, who is essentially the same as he was in OoT. You can see the difference in the Ganon who tried to take over Hyrule, briefly succeeded, and then had it taken away from him, and the Ganon who planned to take over Hyrule but never got the chance. TP Ganon is still eager to seize glory, while WW Ganon is more willing (or perhaps has been forced to) sit back and think before acting.

Yep! That's what makes him my favorite, especially that famous line near the end. He had been contemplating hard about his life and the world around him. It's just really well done.