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[CorrisD]

I have seen a 3 year old do things with electronics that probably most adults can't.

Shit I was 3 when I could use the vcr better than most of my family. I was the only one who could set that recording timer.

Yup, once for a college project I had a little Flash thing for a fake t-shirt company and it allowed you to design your own t-shirt, it was really simple stuff technically, but adults being adults seemed like they were scared to use it or go into anything and didn't play with it much while looking from afar when possible.

Some kids that were there though loved it, of course they made some rather rude looking things, but it was like they knew how everything worked from the get go, it is just part of being a kid or a young person in general and being able to explore, play, and figure out without having that mindset you build up over the years.

And at the end of the day in reference to the topic, this is an OS that is meant for the world and mostly at adults who make up most of the install base, if they can't figure out how to use it regardless of how simple it is then you have made a mistake.
Some will learn, some will take a step back and not bother until it can be what they know again.

 

[SteveWinwood]

log on. hit the desktop. 2 seconds. (btw coming back from sleep returns you to the previous screen so you only see it when you do a cold start)

I haven't used it yet, it just seems unnecessary that's all. Why?

Desktop apps aren't broken? The state of Windows programs is pitiful at best compared to OSX and Linux. There's a ridiculous amount of inconsistency in almost every aspect, a large number of essential consumer programs are missing, and a lot of them perform like crap.

How are they broken? Wait are you talking about the W8 stuff? I'm confused.

 

[lunarworks]

A kid is good with colourful squares?

Shock!

 

[Uno Venova]

Great, a 3 year old can use it but I would never bother putting this on any computers in the house and going through the trouble of teaching it, none of the enhancements are worth it.

I haven't used it yet, it just seems unnecessary that's all. Why?

It is unnecessary, there should be a boot to desktop option, no reason not to.

 

[Windu]

I haven't used it yet, it just seems unnecessary that's all. Why?

Well one reason is Microsoft wanting to move to one UI on Desktops, Laptops, Tablets, and somewhat the same on Phones and Set Top Boxes like Xbox. Another big reason why they are pushing it so hard is because they need to utilize their 1 billion PC customer base to get developers on board to help push themselves into the tablet space. Anyway, the desktop still works exactly the same. The only thing that has changed is that the start menu has been changed to a full screen menu. Still has 99% of the same functionality.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Shut up and enjoy the best tablet UI designed for computers. See, it has COLORS, and BIG BUTTONS! You can press the BUTTONS with your hand*


*unless you are in a normal computer, then you can't.

Oh come on....

Its not that bad. Its Just a start screen. How much time do people spend on the start menu in Windows xp thru 7?

 

[speedpop]

You know what I was fooling around with as a 3 year old?

 

[Monumental]

It is unnecessary, there should be a boot to desktop option, no reason not to.

Well forgetting the fact that when there is a major change in the way people use their computers (touch) and a new UI should be mandatory instead of optional for utilitarian reasons...for the kinds of people that really want to boot directly to Desktop (like you), you can go ahead and download the dozens of little programs that will allow you to do just that. If you can install a new browser, or browser extension, then you can download a tiny program that boots into desktop.

 

[Zizbuka]

And everyone 4+ wants nothing to do with it. Mission accomplished, Windows has been dumbed down.

 

[Windu]

Windows has been dumbed down.

why do you think iPads and iPhones are selling so much?

 

[Monumental]

I'm not 3 years old anymore. I can handle the old-school desktop.

Shut up and enjoy the best tablet UI designed for computers. See, it has COLORS, and BIG BUTTONS! You can press the BUTTONS with your hand*

A kid is good with colourful squares?

Shock!

And everyone 4+ wants nothing to do with it. Mission accomplished, Windows has been dumbed down.

Woah, we got real badasses over here!

lol, if it's not the "Windows is too complicated" BS, then it's the "It's too simple and colorful" BS.

Someone should clue you guys in, icons are for babies. If you use the regular desktop you're a feeble little child. Real men use command line.

 

[stktt]

And everyone 4+ wants nothing to do with it. Mission accomplished, Windows has been dumbed down.

How so?

 

[strata8]

How are they broken? Wait are you talking about the W8 stuff? I'm confused.

I'm talking about traditional desktop programs, whether they be on W7 or W8. They follow no guidelines at all, and install their files and save their user data wherever they please. The whole concept of an installer/uninstaller is honestly absolutely ridiculous and even then, they still leave so much crap on the PC that the user has to deal with. Registry cleaners, temp file cleaners - these programs shouldn't even exist.

I've got about 40 programs on my PC, and this is where their data ends up:
- Documents folder (why?)
- User folder
- Program folder
- AppData

4 different locations. It's stupid. My documents library rarely gets used for documents due to all the folders that programs have created.

There are a whole bunch of other reasons, but I'm really not up to typing them all out.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

And everyone 4+ wants nothing to do with it. Mission accomplished, Windows has been dumbed down.

Really? How hilarious.

"Everythings been the same for 50 years. I dont like change "

 

[Dreams-Visions]

you click the desktop tile. it is in the bottom left by default.

ha that's cool. I wonder if they couldn't have found a picture that more reminds people of the desktop to use on that tile, though.

why do you think iPads and iPhones are selling so much?

simplicity is king and Windows is not as simple. My mother can fly on her iPad. But go ask her to find the photos she uploaded to her computer 2 months ago, create a new folder for them and move the pictures there and watch as a glaze forms over her eyes and anxious, nervous responses take hold.

 

[Totakeke]

ha that's cool. I wonder if they couldn't have found a picture that more reminds people of the desktop to use on that tile, though.

It uses the picture from your desktop wallpaper.

 

[Windu]

ha that's cool. I wonder if they couldn't have found a picture that more reminds people of the desktop to use on that tile, though.

heh that is my wallpaper. I think the default is some flower picture.

 

[Everdred]

This is getting really pathetic. Most the people hating on Windows 8 haven't even tried it. Didn't take long to adjust to and now that I'm used to it, I prefer it. It's OK to dislike something and have an opinion on it but at least try the damn software before complaining.

 

[alphaNoid]

My son turned 3 yesterday and he already uses Windows 8 as well. He mastered the iPad about 6 months ago too. Whenever I read someone tell me or others that Windows 8 RT/metro UI is confusing.. I know they're a troll... or not very smart.

Software is going to continue to change in our lives, we are being bread out by a younger consumer who is ready and willing to accept easier and better UIs. Get used to it old men.

And everyone 4+ wants nothing to do with it. Mission accomplished, Windows has been dumbed down.

Haha, exactly my point. Either a troll or completely inept with technology.

 

[Lynn616]

Windows 8 is really brain dead easy.

 

[Kazerei]

Well forgetting the fact that when there is a major change in the way people use their computers (touch) and a new UI should be mandatory instead of optional for utilitarian reasons...for the kinds of people that really want to boot directly to Desktop (like you), you can go ahead and download the dozens of little programs that will allow you to do just that. If you can install a new browser, or browser extension, then you can download a tiny program that boots into desktop.

Why isn't this a built-in setting? Being able to download a little program is a terrible excuse.

 

[SteveWinwood]

That task manager looks sexy as hell I'll say that.

My son turned 3 yesterday and he already uses Windows 8 as well. He mastered the iPad about 6 months ago too. Whenever I read someone tell me or others that Windows 8 RT/metro UI is confusing.. I know they're a troll... or not very smart.

Software is going to continue to change in our lives, we are being bread out by a younger consumer who is ready and willing to accept easier and better UIs. Get used to it old men.

Bred out.

 

[Apath]

The issue with getting back to the start screen from the desktop is that there is absolutely no indication of where or how you're supposed to do it. My first time I spent 5 minutes trying to figure it out: clicking icons, trying keyboard short cuts, moving my mouse off screen. It really took a bit for me to think to try and put the mouse in the corner, probably because doing something like that is pretty foreign to the computer environment.

Once you know where/how to do it, there is no challenge. It's figuring it out that's the issue.

 

[jizzlobber]

touch screens are the future, laptops will all have touch screens and good old windows had to change... but we have this transition period where the OS has to work with a stinking touchpad/mouse as well.

people are complaining about windows 8 not being intuitive on desktops/laptops, but I don't see how else they could do it.

 

[How About No]

*shrug* I used Windows 95 when I was 4 just fine.

Didn't understand the concept of shutting down from the start menu til later, though. Always hit the power button to shut off. Hope that didn't break anything...

 

[Emwitus]

I mean if a kid can be trained, can't you?

 

[Monumental]

Why isn't this a built-in setting? Being able to download a little program is a terrible excuse.

Because largely it's in Microsoft's and the common user's interest to actually learn to use it instead of running away from it at first glance of confusion.

As an experienced user, complaining about something that takes less than 60 seconds to download and install is pretty pathetic though. Experienced users download dozens of programs, extensions, wallpapers, and make tiny configurations that this should be a non-issue for them. It takes longer to write a post about it than to actually download it.

 

[Kazerei]

Because largely it's in Microsoft's and the common user's interest to actually learn to use it instead of running away from it at first glance of confusion.

As an experienced user, complaining about something that takes less than 60 seconds to download and install is pretty pathetic though. Experienced users download dozens of programs, extensions, wallpapers, and make tiny configurations that this should be a non-issue for them. It takes longer to write a post about it than to actually download it.

So have the start screen open up as the default setting, and let people change it. Most people won't even bother changing it. The people who want to, will download a program anyway, so it's basically pointless not to have the option built-in.

 

[Htown]

Also, you're doing a really nice job pretending this is the main problem people have with Windows 8. Top notch.

 

[Monumental]

Also, you're doing a really nice job pretending this is the main problem people have with Windows 8. Top notch.

So the "main problem" is not that it's complicated to use/learn.
Don't you dare say that it's "too colourful and simple".

So why don't you define for everyone what the "main problem" is?

 

[HarryDemeanor]

So the "main problem" is not that it's complicated to use/learn.
Don't you dare say that it's "too colourful and simple".

So why don't you define for everyone what the "main problem" is?

They're trying to take my freedom away!!!11!1!1

The issue with getting back to the start screen from the desktop is that there is absolutely no indication of where or how you're supposed to do it. My first time I spent 5 minutes trying to figure it out: clicking icons, trying keyboard short cuts, moving my mouse off screen. It really took a bit for me to think to try and put the mouse in the corner, probably because doing something like that is pretty foreign to the computer environment.

Once you know where/how to do it, there is no challenge. It's figuring it out that's the issue.

Did you try the Windows key?

 

[Uno Venova]

So have the start screen open up as the default setting, and let people change it. Most people won't even bother changing it. The people who want to, will download a program anyway, so it's basically pointless not to have the option built-in.

yep

 

[Noshino]

WTF are you talking about? At no point is this video presented as if the kid is using it for the first time. I even wrote it in the OP...

No one is claiming that you won't have to learn a few new things. But if a freaking 3 year old kid can learn hot corners, slide gestures, and the difference between the desktop and start screen, then I'm sure that with a few minutes of usage or first time tutorials, the average consumers will be able to understand it as well.

The point is that given a brief tutorial (which is included), anyone can pick this up. Those that claim that it's far too complicated too learn for the average consumers are the ones being disingenuous.

I'll leave my opinion of Windows 8 aside and say that this logic is flawed.

It is easier for kids to learn stuff, specially UI, because they haven't been used to using one for years..... Adapting to a new UI is harder for adults as there is a change of where things are/were, contradictions to what they know/remember, for kids there aren't (well, not as much). That and they are able to absorb information better in general.

Show me average older users have no problems using W8 for the first time, there might be some in youtube but I have yet to see anyone in person not have problems with it.

 

[Monumental]

It is easier for kids to learn stuff, specially UI, because they haven't been used to using one for years..... Adapting to a new UI is harder for adults as there is a change of where things are/were, contradictions to what they know/remember, for kids there aren't (well, not as much). That and they are able to absorb information better in general.

Show me average older users have no problems using W8 for the first time, there might be some in youtube but I have yet to see anyone in person not have problems with it.

You have not yet seen anyone have a problem with "learning it". What you've seen is people having a problem with being thrown in front of it without any prior knowledge whatsoever AND without any guidance.

If people can learn to use ipads, kindles, and even macs for the first time, then they can learn to move their cursor into a corner, or swipe down, or press the windows key. Everything we've been shown is a shocked reaction to the change, but not to how people actually adapt to that change.

Now, if the argument has now changed to "3 year olds can learn simple things faster than adults can adapt to them", then that is a very sad argument.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

heh that is my wallpaper. I think the default is some flower picture.

ah. a 5 year old would have assumed that. :-/

 

[sca2511]

You know what I was fooling around with as a 3 year old?

you're bad ass man.

 

[Valnen]

Well forgetting the fact that when there is a major change in the way people use their computers (touch) and a new UI should be mandatory instead of optional for utilitarian reasons...for the kinds of people that really want to boot directly to Desktop (like you), you can go ahead and download the dozens of little programs that will allow you to do just that. If you can install a new browser, or browser extension, then you can download a tiny program that boots into desktop.

Everything should always be optional. More options is ALWAYS a good thing. How can anyone argue against having options? PC's are all about customization afterall.

 

[Noshino]

You have not yet seen anyone have a problem with "learning it". What you've seen is people having a problem with being thrown in front of it without any prior knowledge whatsoever AND without any guidance.

If people can learn to use ipads, kindles, and even macs for the first time, then they can learn to move their cursor into a corner, or swipe down, or press the windows key. Everything we've been shown is a shocked reaction to the change, but not to how people actually adapt to that change.

Now, if the argument has now changed to "3 year olds can learn simple things faster than adults can adapt to them", then that is a very sad argument.

I have seen people try at Best Buy with some reps trying to teach them, I have seen friends install the trial and be lost, and take a few minutes trying to learn it but be annoyed by it (very few are planning to upgrade), and then when relatives/other friends passed by/wanted to try it they would wonder why it wasnt the same as before. Sorry, but I have seen very few people considered it worth it to adapt to the changes.

Btw you should stop making assumptions before you know the specifics of what I have or have not seen, makes you look more biased than what you already seem to be.


The "people can learn" line isn't a good one. Everyone can learn new ways of doing things, but just because we can doesnt mean that we should. And your examples are once again not great. Changes in the way we interact with different products is expected. I don't know about the Kindle (never owned one), but Macs and iOS haven't had such a radical UI change such as this one within the same product line (Windows).

And as for your last statement, I said easier, not faster.

 

[TheGreatDivide]

The guy who made this video must have been really mad about people being mean to the operating system he's decided he likes

 

[strata8]

I have seen people try at Best Buy with some reps trying to teach them, I have seen friends install the trial and be lost, and take a few minutes trying to learn it but be annoyed by it (very few are planning to upgrade), and then when relatives/other friends passed by/wanted to try it they would wonder why it wasnt the same as before. Sorry, but I have seen very few people considered it worth it to adapt to the changes.

Woah, they took a few minutes? All that time? Give me a break.

My friend was constantly complaining about the changes from XP when he saw me running Windows 7, claiming that there wasn't any reason for it and it just annoyed him. And now? He's running Windows 7 on everything.

 

[Monumental]

Everything should always be optional. More options is ALWAYS a good thing. How can anyone argue against having options? PC's are all about customization afterall.

Well then go and get that tiny .exe and change it. PC's are all about customization, but I bet 90% of the customization that any of you do isn't related to Microsoft's options, it's 3rd party software.

You don't stick to paint. You use Paint.net, or photoshop.
You don't use windows movie maker. You use Sony Vegas, or Adobe Premier.
You don't use Windows Media Player. You use VLC Player.
You don't use IE. You use Chrome or Firefox.
You don't use the default wallpapers. You go and download dozens of wallpapers of your own choice.
You go and download rainmeter, stardock fences, and a billion other tiny customization tools.

It's like ordering takeout and complaining they didn't give you a packet of ketchup when you already have a bottle of ketchup at home, which is where you're gonna eat anyway.

Give this argument a rest.

I don't know about the Kindle (never owned one), but Macs and iOS haven't had such a radical UI change such as this one within the same product line (Windows).

You think the people buying Macs have been buying macs all their life? There are a shitload of people who are using iOS and OSX products for the first time. They realize that things are a little bit different and learn to adapt.

My point about "what you've seen" was about the popular videos online. I don't presume to know what you've encountered in your everyday life. If people are confused and they don't want to learn, then fine. Sooner or later they'll have to. This is the OS that a billion people use, and this is the new direction. They can complain about taking a few minutes to learn it, and ignore it. But 1...2...5 years down the road, they'll have to.

 

[Phobophile]

Oh man, I have no clue what you guys are talking about. I don't run Windows at home and my most people at my job still run XP, including myself. I haven't even really had the opportunity to use Windows 7 much.

 

[StudioTan]

Why isn't this a built-in setting? Being able to download a little program is a terrible excuse.

Because you turn on your computer to run software, right?

So why go to your desktop when you can just click the tile that launches the software you booted your computer to use? Simple, isn't it?

If instead you booted your computer to access something sitting on your desktop you click the Desktop tile. However the mostly likely thing people will do is launch a program, therefore it makes the most sense to default to the Start screen.

 

[Monumental]

Because you turn on your computer to run software, right?

So why go to your desktop when you can just click the tile that launches the software you booted your computer to use? Simple, isn't it?

If instead you booted your computer to access something sitting on your desktop you click the Desktop tile. However the mostly likely thing people will do is launch a program, therefore it makes the most sense to default to the Start screen.

His point is that defaulting to the Start screen is ok, just have an option to boot to Desktop. Now while I agree that Microsoft should just include it as an option in the settings, I think the point is just as moot since it's the easiest thing in the world to do yourself anyway. Anyone who actually cares to boot into the desktop, will be able to boot into the desktop.

 

[Baconbitz]

It being hard has never been a concern for me, I thought it being simple and easy to work was the whole appeal of it, the ugly design and annoyance of having that metro go full screen when I just want to do a simple search is however why I won't bother.

Btw your kid got awesome hair.

The OS is a mess. Sure I'm a IT guy of sorts but if you've trained us to do one thing one way why try to train us to do it in a way that a lot more annoying?

 

[StudioTan]

His point is that defaulting to the Start screen is ok, just have an option to boot to Desktop. Now while I agree that Microsoft should just include it as an option in the settings, I think the point is just as moot since it's the easiest thing in the world to do yourself anyway. Anyone who actually cares to boot into the desktop, will be able to boot into the desktop.

Sure, make it an option eventually, but there is a finite amount of development time and having allocate development to implement a setting to let people avoid a single mouse click to start their day is not a wise thing to do. Win 8 is such a huge change there were much more important things to spend development time on.

 

[Valnen]

Well then go and get that tiny .exe and change it. PC's are all about customization, but I bet 90% of the customization that any of you do isn't related to Microsoft's options, it's 3rd party software.

You don't stick to paint. You use Paint.net, or photoshop.
You don't use windows movie maker. You use Sony Vegas, or Adobe Premier.
You don't use Windows Media Player. You use VLC Player.
You don't use IE. You use Chrome or Firefox.
You don't use the default wallpapers. You go and download dozens of wallpapers of your own choice.
You go and download rainmeter, stardock fences, and a billion other tiny customization tools.

It's like ordering takeout and complaining they didn't give you a packet of ketchup when you already have a bottle of ketchup at home, which is where you're gonna eat anyway.

Give this argument a rest.

I only download some of those things because the default stuff I'm provided is awful. It's not like I enjoy downloading some of those programs. This is why I like it when more options are just straight up built in.

 

[diehard]

The inability to use metro apps with UAC off is stupid.

So was the decision to not have an option to use aero.

 

[Windu]

The inability to use metro apps with UAC off is stupid.

So was the decision to not have an option to use aero.

well turning off UAC is stupid anyway.

 

[Valnen]

The inability to use metro apps with UAC off is stupid.

Wow. That is colossally awful. Not that I'd ever turn off UAC...

well turning off UAC is stupid anyway.

Ehh...there are some programs that exist that require it off to function properly.