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[Windu]

Microsoft held a presentation on their Windows Mixed Reality stuff that is launching on October 17th.

Microsoft Blog Post - Intro Video - Video of Event

New Headset from Samsung Announced today. The Samsung HMD Odyssey. Seems to be higher quality than the other MR headsets. $499 with controllers.

https://www.samsung.com/us/computing/computing-accessories/computers/xe800zaa-hc1us-xe800zaa-hc1us/

Samsung is officially unveiling its Windows Mixed Reality headset today, and on paper it looks like the best one yet. While we've seen plenty of headsets from Acer, Asus HP, Dell, and Lenovo, Samsung's Odyssey headset differs from its rivals thanks to dual-OLED displays. Samsung is also using a higher 1400 x 1600 resolution on each display in its device, and a better 110-degree field-of-view.

Both of these additions will improve VR experiences on the headset compared to rivals that typically offer 1400 x 1400 per eye and 95-degree field-of-view. It also places Samsung's headset as more of a HTC Vive or Oculus Rift competitor, and Samsung has even added an IPD adjustment at the base of its headset (just like the Rift). The IPD adjuster lets you alter the distance between the two lenses so you can get a sharper picture for VR.

In a move that's also similar to the Oculus Rift, Samsung is including built-in headphones with its Odyssey headset.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/3/...ws-mixed-reality-headset-pricing-release-date

SteamVR support this holiday. Dev Preview now available - Steam Store Page

At its event in San Francisco today Microsoft revealed that a developer preview for the SteamVR support on its new devices, made in partnership with companies like Acer and Dell, is now available. This will allow developers to try out their own content within SteamVR. Microsoft expects to make this preview build available to everyone later this holiday season. Valve released the following statement to us about how the integration will work:

”Microsoft is providing an OpenVR driver that allows SteamVR to automatically identify Windows MR hardware. From a consumer's experience, this should allow SteamVR titles to ‘just work' on these devices. On the dev side it is also possible for developers to tune their application for specific aspects of the headsets and/or for the Windows MR controllers."

This support means Microsoft's new headsets should get access to hundreds of VR games on Steam. The platform already supports Oculus Rift, HTC Vive and OSVR, meaning anyone with one of those headsets can jump into any VR product on the store, though specific optimization is required to fine-tune control schemes for each platform

Halo Recruit Announced. Available on Oct. 17th.

343 industries has created the experience, and it looks like it will be similar to the lightsaber VR experience available on the HTC Vive last year. It's not a full game of Halo, nor will you be running around as Master Chief, but it's a first attempt at how Halo could look in virtual reality.

Microsoft Bought AltspaceVR as well.

Microsoft will continue the service.

According to Microsoft, ”AltspaceVR will stay AltspaceVR. Microsoft is most interested in preserving the current community that uses AltspaceVR to connect and interact with new and old friends. These first few months will focus on fostering our community and making sure AltspaceVR remains a friendly, welcoming and vibrant place to hang out in virtual reality."

While that might be the case immediately it is easy to imagine Microsoft fast tracking an effort to make its virtual homes into places where you can invite friends, or integrating services like Skype. Such advancements would help Microsoft match some of the most compelling aspects of competing VR platforms. For example, Facebook's Spaces lets you call people in the real world through Facebook Messenger and conference them into your virtual world while Valve's SteamVR Home offers a customizable virtual home where you can invite friends and show them your gaming trophies. If Microsoft's Xbox ends up ultimately supporting VR that latter feature would be a fun part of the experience.

MR headsets avaiable for preorder.

Acer Windows Mixed Reality Headset
Dell Visor
HP Windows Mixed Reality Headset
Lenovo Explorer
Samsung HMD Odyssey

Spec Comparison: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-mixed-reality-hmds-comparison,35596.html

Windows Central posted a hands on demo of the Mixed Reality Software yesterday. Goes through the Virtual Home UI or whatever you call it. Basically Holoens in VR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEfqcHBUFR0

 

[jond76]

Is the Samsung set wireless? That has my attention.

I'll be waiting for Xbox one x support...hopefully.

 

[Windu]

Is the Samsung set wireless? That has my attention.

I'll be waiting for Xbox one x support...hopefully.

I think all of them are wired.

 

[ArtHands]

Is the Samsung set wireless? That has my attention.

I'll be waiting for Xbox one x support...hopefully.

Not wired but they are much easier to set up (about 10 mins), require lower specs pc than Rift/Vive and doesn’t require mounting of external camera.

 

[tombo85]

Is there some kind of room scale with these?

 

[Windu]

Halo Recruit Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRoBezMrF3M

Doesn't seem to be a direct feed though.

Looks like a shooting gallery game.

Edit: ah

Note: At times the mirror output (filmed from a computer monitor) appears choppy in the video above, however the game remained perfectly smooth inside the headset.

https://www.roadtovr.com/hands-on-h...ality-is-the-first-taste-of-halos-true-scale/

I think they filmed the computer screen output.

 

[Fafalada]

I like the convenience of inside-out tracking (less setup and all that) but I hope the Dell demo I tried isn't representative of the other hw - it was really... really bad.
Uncomfortable (less than 5 minutes in), quite nauseating lens-distortion that I couldn't get rid of by re-positioning the headset, and most importantly - 45fps or lower update. Given the low-fidelity of the demo(menuscreen, and later Superhot), certainly not selling the "lower PC requirement" part of the story there, assuming it's not a headset-hw limitation.

On the positive note - controller tracking - worked/seemed accurate, as best as I could tell with the high-latency/low framerate of it.

 

[Windu]

Is there some kind of room scale with these?

Yes, uses the same tech as hololens / kinect etc...

 

[LostMyNarbles]

I've heard the tracking for these headsets is really bad because they don't use base stations like the Vive/Rift. What practical use do they have when the Rift is already so cheap? I mean, if the tracking sucks then gaming is probably messy on them, let alone the fact that the Vive is built specifically for SteamVR and the Rift was built for gaming as well.

 

[paulogy]

I can't conceive of any way this wouldn't end up on Xbox One X eventually.

 

[bitbydeath]

I'll be waiting for Xbox one x support...hopefully.

 

[tombo85]

Yes, uses the same tech as hololens / kinect etc...

OK cool. Might have to get one then

 

[Windu]

OK cool. Might have to get one then

This video shows the pre setup.

https://youtu.be/gEfqcHBUFR0?t=1s

 

[snap]

Hmm

Samsung headset is the same price as a Rift. Since they both have (or will get soon) SteamVR and presumably someone will create a ReVive solution for Windows headsets, it'd be interesting what'd be the better deal. I can see these Windows headsets going on sale more often than the Rift and the Vive, so that might be a big deal.

 

[jond76]

Excellent

 

[ArtHands]

I've heard the tracking for these headsets is really bad because they don't use base stations like the Vive/Rift. What practical use do they have when the Rift is already so cheap? I mean, if the tracking sucks then gaming is probably messy on them, let alone the fact that the Vive is built specifically for SteamVR and the Rift was built for gaming as well.

Thats a hyperbole. They don’t suck actually. On paper they are not as good as those on Rift or Vive, but actual hands on experiences has been rather positive. UploadVR say they see lesser issues than the controllers on PSVR.
https://uploadvr.com/played-superhot-vr-new-windows-headset-impressive/

I played through three levels of the game, and I had significantly less issues playing here than I did with the PSVR version (which I still loved).

So it should sits somewhere between PSVR and Rift/Vive. And the general public accepts PSVR quality of tracking, so the tracking for these MR headsets are consider above the baseline.

 

[Izuna]

That Halo gameplay is awful lmao

 

[Durante]

It's too bad that Samsung HMD is stuck with that tracking option.
Looks like it could be the best consumer HMD so far otherwise.
Maybe you could get it to work with a SteamVR tracker?

 

[JoeLT]

That Samsung headset looks great, though I’ll still hold out for wireless headsets. I like my PSVR but need a bigger step up in resolution/tracking/fov.

What’s up with the 90hz of all these headsets? Would have expected 120hz for at least the Samsung, does Windows MR have any async warp like Rift/PSVR?

 

[nubbe]

Since Samsung has OLED, it's the one to get
Shame it launches almost a month later

 

[cyba89]

That Samsung headset seems interesting. If impressions are positive this might be my VR entry point (when it hits 400€).

 

[Alx]

Spec Comparison: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-mixed-reality-hmds-comparison,35596.html

Thanks for the link. I'm still hesitating on which one to order, I like the "Cyclops" look of the Acer one (and its slightly cheaper price), but Samsung seems slightly better spec-wise.

 

[Windu]

Video of event

https://youtu.be/xTT_3DhTMI8

Looks like they use some kind of AR camera to put the user over the VR video for the demo. Pretty neat, no need for green screen for demos.

Also the pre-recorded 3d videos of people is really creepy.

The Cortana voice stuff is neat. Can move apps around by just looking somewhere and say, move here.

And the xbox app game streaming works in VR. (they played cuphead) So if you want to play a 2D game in VR you can, which for some reason people will do. I guess you can play it on a 100ft screen in VR if you want to.

Alex Kipman also mentioned that in the near future we will have headsets that can do both AR and VR. Wonder if Hololens 2 could do that. That might be too soon though.

That Halo gameplay is awful lmao

Yeah looks like shit. Tech demo i guess.

 

[Durante]

What's up with the 90hz of all these headsets? Would have expected 120hz for at least the Samsung

90 Hz is sufficient to allow low-persistence display strobing without any negative effects, and more viable to push natively in a larger variety of games (and on a larger variety of systems).

Thanks for the link. I'm still hesitating on which one to order, I like the "Cyclops" look of the Acer one (and its slightly cheaper price), but Samsung seems slightly better spec-wise.

The Samsung seems like a significant step up to me compared to the rather small price increase. Hardware IPD support is important.
I'd buy it if they had a lighthouse-tracked version.

 

[Windu]

Steam windows mixed reality store page

http://store.steampowered.com/app/719950/Windows_Mixed_Reality_SteamVR_preview/

 

[Abilidebob]

“Microsoft is providing an OpenVR driver that allows SteamVR to automatically identify Windows MR hardware. From a consumer’s experience, this should allow SteamVR titles to ‘just work’ on these devices. On the dev side it is also possible for developers to tune their application for specific aspects of the headsets and/or for the Windows MR controllers.”

That's honestly pretty surprising. I thought Microsoft was gonna Microsoft and completely ignore OpenVR and SteamVR.

 

[Windu]

Road to VR Samsung hands on

https://www.roadtovr.com/samsung-odyssey-windows-vr-mixed-reality-headset-hands-on-preview/

 

[LukasTaves]

It's too bad that Samsung HMD is stuck with that tracking option.
Looks like it could be the best consumer HMD so far otherwise.
Maybe you could get it to work with a SteamVR tracker?

What's wrong with the tracking? I've only read very positive impressions so far, even the controllers, seems to keep a reasonable precision even when not in the view of the HMD.
And that's on games made with the super precise controllers in mind... Supposedly can only get better from that if developers can account for the precision loss somehow.

 

[pastrami]

Road to VR Samsung hands on

https://www.roadtovr.com/samsung-odyssey-windows-vr-mixed-reality-headset-hands-on-preview/

Here’s a thought about the Windows VR motion controllers in general (both Samsung’s version and the standard version): while they seem to work fine for casual use, they still tend to ‘jump’ a little much for my taste...I obviously haven’t had a chance to do any conclusive testing, but if the Rift and Vive controller tracking feels 99.9% accurate, Windows VR tracking has, in my time with it, felt closer to 98%. That may sound fine, but most forms of input need to be 99.9% consistent in order to not frustrate users.

This was my big worry with the controller tracking. I wish there were more manufacturers utilizing lighthouse technology.

 

[nubbe]

Inside-Out tracking is for the mass market and lightouhses is for the enthusiasts

WMR will be the VHS of HMD

 

[Durante]

What's wrong with the tracking? I've only read very positive impressions so far, even the controllers, seems to keep a reasonable precision even when not in the view of the HMD.
And that's on games made with the super precise controllers in mind... Supposedly can only get better from that if developers can account for the precision loss somehow.

• I don't believe in tracking accuracy reports until it has actually been in a large number of people's homes, with all their various walls and lighting conditions.
• Even if it actually is reasonably accurate across real-world conditions, I see absolutely no reason to downgrade to "reasonable" precision and FoV-limited positional controller tracking when I already have a working system for basically perfect tracking.

As such, I think it's a shame that what looks like it could be the best HMD in terms of optics and displays (until the PIMAX releases at least) is limited to a sub-optimal tracking system.

 

[borges]

Also, well worth to mention this: https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/03/microsoft-acquires-social-virtual-reality-app-altspacevr/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29

 

[LordRaptor]

That's honestly pretty surprising. I thought Microsoft was gonna Microsoft and completely ignore OpenVR and SteamVR.

Providing a driver isn't necessarily the same as fully backing and supporting OVR (see: Nvidia on Linux) but its babysteps towards doing so

 

[nubbe]

OpenXR will save us from API hell mid 2018

 

[Alienous]

I was under the impression that inside-out tracking hadn't been figured out yet.

I'm intrigued to see how reliable it is, and how it handles controllers that are out of the FOV. One of the most appealing parts of VR, especially in games, is being able to reach for something without having to fix your eyes on it.

 

[ArtHands]

This was my big worry with the controller tracking. I wish there were more manufacturers utilizing lighthouse technology.

Unfortunately We can't rely on lighthouse or any external tracking devices forever. Sure lighthouse technology is accurate, but at the same time they are clunky, more time to set up, and require you to have a power plug nearby. What Microsoft is doing here is sacrificing tracking quality for these.

What we can hope and look forward to is a convergence in the future, where we can have perfect tracking without any reliance on external devices like camera and lighthouse base. Hopefully the different tracking approaches will help foster the acceleration towards that goal.

 

[Durante]

Unfortunately We can't rely on lighthouse or any external tracking devices forever.

Oh, I absolutely can. Or at least until something which is actually superior rather than "not too much worse" comes along.
People who want "mainstream appeal" can't

That's one reason I am fervently supporting open standards in VR, so that they can sell something "good enough" to a sufficient number of people for content creators to be profitable, while I can use something I consider good enough for the same content.

 

[pastrami]

Unfortunately We can't rely on lighthouse or any external tracking devices forever. Sure lighthouse technology is accurate, but at the same time they are clunky, more time to set up, and require you to have a power plug nearby. What Microsoft is doing here is sacrificing tracking quality for these.

What we can hope and look forward to is a convergence in the future, where we can have perfect tracking without any reliance on external devices like camera and lighthouse base. Hopefully the different tracking approaches will help foster the acceleration towards that goal.

When those technologies get as accurate as lighthouse, I'll look at them more seriously. Until then, it's a big negative point for me.

 

[Abilidebob]

Providing a driver isn't necessarily the same as fully backing and supporting OVR (see: Nvidia on Linux) but its babysteps towards doing so

Absolutely. But this IS Microsoft we're talking about, that's why I was surprised.

 

[Durante]

Absolutely. But this IS Microsoft we're talking about, that's why I was surprised.

Well, we are still in the "embrace" phase.

 

[Abilidebob]

Well, we are still in the "embrace" phase.

Hope we never get into the third "E".

 

[LordRaptor]

Well, we are still in the "embrace" phase.

I mean... I was thinking it, but didn't want to be unfairly cynical and outright say it.
MS playing nice and contributing to Open Source standards is a good thing, they deserve kudos for doing so. If they do decide to take their ball and go home later on, pitchforks on standby.

 

[Windu]

Tested.com impressions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JjiReFuQhs

Norm and Jeremy attend Microsoft's Windows Mixed Reality launch event to check out the slate of VR headsets being released this year for Windows 10. Especially notable is the Samsung HMD Odyssey, a headest with a high-resolution OLED display. We discuss our hands-on impressions of these headset's inside-out tracking, image quality, and the promise of a VR version of Windows.

 

[Fafalada]

[*]I don't believe in tracking accuracy reports until it has actually been in a large number of people's homes, with all their various walls and lighting conditions.

I didn't find controller tracking problematic per-se when testing Dell, however since the update-rate was so atrocious, it could easily hide other issues.
That said - this was my second time trying an inside-out headset(not counting Hololens) and both had the same subpar update rates on the respective demos. I want to think whoever was responsible for demo setup didn't know what they were doing with respect to GPU/CPU spec, but I can't completely dismiss the possibility of tracking system somehow limiting update rates either.