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With Xbox effectively dead, what motivation does Sony really have from a 1st party software perspective?

bender said:
While I agree that PlayStation is doing well and the brand isn't going anywhere, it will be interesting to see what, if any, long term effects come from their GAAS and studio acquisition initiative fumbles.
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Look around, basically went unnoticed it's crazy how so many of you think all this noise you make online to a core audience translate into the real world lol it really doesn't. Most people don't know what the hell Concord is 😂. Hell I didn't even know what it was but you all just kept talking about it before it was even released then continued to talk about it after it was unreleased 😂.
 
HeisenbergFX4 said:
People wanted this

People have been warned what would happen if one camp has zero threat

People still wanted this
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I been saying it for years that we, as gamers, benefited from Xbox pushing PlayStation and PlayStation pushing Xbox.

onQ123 said:
So what about when there was no Xbox in the PS1 era then Xbox was blown away by PS2?
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And then Xbox caught up to PlayStation with 360. That's about as competitive as the two have ever been.

onQ123 said:
So you're telling me that Xbox buying up the biggest publisher in the world was less competition for PlayStation than the OG Xbox ?

Lol
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When Xbox games are being published regularly on PlayStation? lol...yes, that's exactly what I'm telling you.
 
onQ123 said:
Look around, basically went unnoticed it's crazy how so many of you think all this noise you make online to a core audience translate into the real world lol it really doesn't. Most people don't know what the hell Concord is 😂. Hell I didn't even know what it was but you all just kept talking about it before it was even released then continued to talk about it after it was unreleased 😂.
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Let me get my crystal ball so I can view the long term effects of these fumbles. Further, I'm not predicting anything (not the "if any" in what you quoted) so you can stow your "you all" generalizations. Just because believe Sony has weakened their position with a lot of their decisions this generation doesn't mean I think they are going to go out of business. I know nuance isn't your strong suit, but thinking that just because you are doing well today means you'll be doing well tomorrow isn't smart business strategy, especially in technology. And "most people not knowing what Concord is" isn't exactly a feather in Sony's cap. These failures have more impact than just the games being shut down and studios shuttered and those ripples might not be felt today, but can certainly be felt when new platforms of service offerings are launched.
 
yurinka said:
I think their motivation continues being the same as always:
  • Contribute to the brand image of PlayStation prodiving prestige games
  • Give players confidence that PlayStation will have at least certain amount of great games every generation/year
  • Showcase the possibilities of the PlayStation consoles to the other devs and the players
  • To generate revenue and profit for SIE/Sony to keep the machine pumping

This generation they took many big risks regarding first party:
  • Spent a record amount in acquisitions
  • Highly grew most of their internal teams to record number of manpower
  • Increased the amount of first party games developed at the same time to record numbers (over 25)
  • Increased the number of new IPs to around half of games under development at the same time (over a dozen new IPs at the same time)
  • Almost doubled the budget of AAA to record numbers (same as the rest of other AAA publishers) compared to previous generation
  • Highly increased their investment on PC releases to new record numbers
  • Increased/started their investment on rival console releases to new record numbers
  • Highly increased their investment on mobile gaming releases to new record numbers
  • Highly increased their investment on multiplayer releases to new record numbers
  • Highly increased their investment on GaaS releases to new record numbers
  • Highly increased their investment on off-gaming adaptations (movies, tv shows, anime) to new record numbers
  • Expanded their first party catalog to several genres/subgenres where their first party catalog was weak
  • Made a record investment in second party projects for the generation
  • Invested in places like Unreal Engine/Epic, Devolver, FromSoft, Kadokawa, Bandai Namco
  • Signed strategical deals with From Soft, Kadokawa, Kadokawa+CyGames, Bandai Namco+Gaudiy, Koei Tecmo+Akatsuki, Netease, NC Soft..., many of them related to future expansion to let them bring Sony IPs to mobile gaming
  • Expanded their 2nd party Asian games to games being developed only in Japan to games also developed in other countries like South Korea (Stellar Blade) or China (Lost Soul Aside plus other upcoming China Hero Project titles to be published by them)
  • Licensed a third party publisher use old, unused, low selling IPs (licensed 3 to Bandai Namco)
  • Started to allow indies use their top IPs (Lego Horizon, GoW Sons of Sparta and I assume more coming)
  • Also published other small experimental games from other external small teams (Firewall Ultra, Destruction AllStars, Midnight Murder Club...)
They aprox. doubled their first party revenue versus a generation ago, so very likely will double down in all these growth channels / risky stuff. Investing the same on more in most of them, and also taking additional risks / investing in more potential growth channels
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That's a great list of things they did.

A lot of those points (# of things in production, risks taken, etc) are a result of their failed GaaS initiative that resulted in very little quality software (basically just Helldivers so far).

All those things seem nice but we still have less first party output from Sony than any gen before. We're 6 years in and Naughty dog, their premier studio, still hasn't even shown gameplay for a PS5 game.

Despite that, they're still killing it, because ultimately their man audience and primary source of money is the casual crowd that comes for the 3rd party sports/cod/gta games.
 
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ChorizoPicozo said:
Given Hulst's last words.... Why bother making games. It's too hard, it's too expensive and player behavior has changed or whatever. Just money-hat time exclusives and everyone wins. 🤷🏻‍♂️
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Yeah stuff like kena 2 is the eay forward for sony instead of building ips themselves.
 
Topher said:
I been saying it for years that we, as gamers, benefited from Xbox pushing PlayStation and PlayStation pushing Xbox.



And then Xbox caught up to PlayStation with 360. That's about as competitive as the two have ever been.



When Xbox games are being published regularly on PlayStation? lol...yes, that's exactly what I'm telling you.
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These games just started coming to PS5 over the last 2 years but also the fact that PlayStation gives Xbox the biggest user-base they have ever had actually makes them more competitive because now PlayStation games have to compete on their own platform against Halo , Gears & Forza .
 
Tg89 said:
That's a great list of things they did.

A lot of those points (# of things in production, risks taken, etc) are a result of their failed GaaS initiative that resulted in very little quality software (basically just Helldivers so far).

All those things seem nice but we still have less first party output from Sony than any gen before. We're 6 years in and Naughty dog, their premier studio, still hasn't even shown gameplay for a PS5 game.

Despite that, they're still killing it, because ultimately their man audience and primary source of money is the casual crowd that comes for the 3rd party sports/cod/gta games.
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Every generation AAA games are bigger, more complex and have visuals with more detail. Which means they need to be made by more people and during more time. Which means each team releases less games per generation.

To compensate this, they grew their studios to have in many of them more teams than before and bought additional studios, plus increased the investment in second party games.

This generation SIE works in more first party games at the same time than ever did before: over 25 (and very likely, over 35). But they take longer to be made, now around 5-9 years on average for AAA game.

Regarding Naughty Dog: they released TLOU2 around 5 years and a half ago. Since then released Legacy of Thieves Collection, TLOUP1 remake, TLOU2R and their PC ports. Should show Intergalactic gameplay this year and release it next year. They are working in minimum one but pretty likely two other AAA SP games, one of them started early 2023.

Their GaaS initiative isn't failed: they released 7 and in a year or two will release 7 more. And cancelled 4 (4 out of 18 is normal for both GaaS and non-GaaS). So far their first party revenue is around twice as big than a generation ago, and now over 40% of it comes from GaaS. That percentage very likely will considerably increase after the Marathon and Tokon releases, probably to over 50%.
 
I think even nintendo durning early n64 days had bigger incentive to actually work hard and show us the goodies, ps5 this whole gen doesnt give a damn, its not like early ps4 gen when their devteams simply needed that additional year or two to deliver high quality products but we all knew and saw they are working doubleshift to make it happen.
Not at all, here they at best are willing to swarm us with their modern audience GAAS slop :messenger_astonished:
What happens if it doesnt work out once again and they lose another few hundo milion of usd- hermen already thinking about it in this way- i guess things cant be helped- time to shut down insomaniacs and ssm right away :messenger_pensive:
 
yurinka said:
Should show Intergalactic gameplay this year and release it next year.
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Unlikely. Which is why I think ND is next to go. They are likely only doing one other game (probably a SP TLOU game) but it's pre-production at best.

Tangently related to Phil being ousted, I think that's why Netflix wants WB. They want to mass produce AI generated content from it's IPs. MS is likely going to pivot to something similar, if they can make it work.
 
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They should look at there output on PS3 and try to recapture that magic, and either make Aloy attractive and not an annoying bitch or kill her off and get a decent character also fire Hulst.
 
First party will always be important.
Sony only has a 30% cut of third party sales, first party is far more profitable if a game is a success (although they need to recoup the development costs) and a successful first party gaas is essentially a money printer for them.
Also first party is needed to differentiate their product although their goal has never been to be a first party console and that has been the case since the PS1 days.
 
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onQ123 said:
These games just started coming to PS5 over the last 2 years but also the fact that PlayStation gives Xbox the biggest user-base they have ever had actually makes them more competitive because now PlayStation games have to compete on their own platform against Halo , Gears & Forza .
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Third party publishers putting their games on PlayStation are Sony partners, not competitors.
 
onQ123 said:
Most people here claim that PS5 is PlayStation's worst generation so I guess Xbox being out of the way would make PlayStation great again 🙄


Pick a narrative
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Then I guess most people here are somewhat 40 year old dudes still living in nostalgialand unable to a) adapt to new games and b) think that everything 3 decades ago was so great that nothing that's been made in internet age can even get close to the quality from old games.
 
Topher said:
Third party publishers putting their games on PlayStation are Sony partners, not competitors.
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Are we not talking about games here?

Forza is most definitely competing with Gran Turismo, Halo would be competing with Killzone if Killzone was still a thing & if they release Halo with online multiplayer it will be competing with Marathon , Helldivers 2 & Destiny.
 
onQ123 said:
Are we not talking about games here?

Forza is most definitely competing with Gran Turismo, Halo would be competing with Killzone if Killzone was still a thing & if they release Halo with online multiplayer it will be competing with Marathon , Helldivers 2 & Destiny.
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Nah, you're just moving the goalposts. Previously you were talking about Xbox being "out of the way". Then it was PS1/PS2 vs Xbox consoles. Now its games competing with games on the same platform to the point that you creating fictional competition between Halo and Killzone. You are all over place trying to pretend Xbox and PlayStation are still huge competitors when they simply are not. I damn sure wish they were. Gaming would be better off.
 
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Money. They want to keep making money. That's the primary motivation of all businesses.
 
Topher said:
Nah, you're just moving the goalposts. Previously you were talking about Xbox being "out of the way". Then it was PS1/PS2 vs Xbox consoles. Now its games competing with games on the same platform to the point that you creating fictional competition between Halo and Killzone. You are all over place trying to pretend Xbox and PlayStation are still huge competitors when they simply are not. I damn sure wish they were. Gaming would be better off.
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The hell are you talking about? The 1st post was clearly sarcastic with the added eye roll.

Because one narrative is that things are going to be worse for PlayStation if Xbox is gone then the other is that PS5 is the worst PlayStation generation.

PS1 & PS2 didn't have much competition from Xbox & did just fine so why should we worry now?
 
RoboFu said:
I wonder...

www.nintendo.com

Nintendo Switch 2 sets record, selling over 3.5 million units globally in first four days - News - Nintendo Official Site

The new more powerful console is the fastest selling Nintendo game system ever In the four days following its June 5 launch, the Nintendo Switch™ 2 game system sold more than 3.5 million units worldwide*, becoming the fastest-selling Nintendo game s…
www.nintendo.com www.nintendo.com
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These people are crazy 😂 PlayStation & Nintendo are doing better than ever (Besides the last few months in the US with too much going on ) but somehow they're not competing & only the fear of Xbox can keep Sony on their toes 😂
 
Xbox isn't dead yet.

Oh, Xbox as a gaming company as we know it will be dead when they go balls deep into AI. The name Xbox alone will probably change in 3ish years. Maybe 5. Whatever that new thing is will be third party mostly investing in forever Live Service games.

But here's hoping the transitional peroid lasts long enough for Todd to dissapoint us with Elder Scrolls 6.

The last horray. That crafty asshole more than likely will get my money with what will be a let down of a game if Starfield is any indication.
 
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Plague Doctor said:
Xbox isn't dead yet.

Oh, Xbox as a gaming company as we know it will be when they go balls deep into AI. The name Xbox alone will probably change in 3ish years. Maybe 5.

But here's hoping the transitional peroid lasts long enough for Todd to dissapoint us with Elder Scrolls 6.

The last horray. That crafty asshole more than likely will get my money with what will be a let down of a game if Starfield is any indication.
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I feel u about ES6, if game hypes us up enough i know we will be there day0 together with some other 20m players :D
 
The only scenario in which they might is if Xbox somehow returns like Palpatine next gen. Pretty unlikely, but not impossible.

Otherwise they don't really need exclusives now and can coast on being the obvious console choice for third party if they want to. Nintendo needs exclusives; Sony does not.
 
Alex Scott said:
I disagree. PlayStation is being incompetent, this is far worse than arrogant Sony.
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I'd say they are being both, but I get your point. Either way, they couldn't afford to be either if they had competition breathing down their neck.
 
What initiative did they have during PS2 when xbox had not released yet then was irrelevant when it did? Same thing. They want to sell consoles and games. It doesn't matter much if it's third party partnerships or first party studios they will try to attract people to their ecosystem and if those games end up on other platforms much later so be it. Who cares. Nobody did when twin snakes released or GTA3 or whatever. PS was just the place to get all the big games just like it is now.

It's weird that people don't ask these odd questions for Valve who make almost nothing really and do the GaaS crap worse than anyone with games like Deadlock while sleeping on popular old single player IP like HL and Portal. At least PS is releasing multiple single player games every single year even if people try to find something to complain about anyway when they do. Why don't people try to push this narrative of competition for Valve for them to try harder? Instead they try to shit on EGS when it funds projects.
 
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ChorizoPicozo said:
Given Hulst's last words.... Why bother making games. It's too hard, it's too expensive and player behavior has changed or whatever. Just money-hat time exclusives and everyone wins. 🤷🏻‍♂️
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With that logic PlayStation is about to join MS as another Publisher for Steam and Nintendo...
 
onQ123 said:
You're missing the point .

I'm saying that if PS1 & PS2 was better than PS5 without competition from Xbox why worry about PS5 without competition from Xbox?
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Even with PS1/PS2 dominance, Xbox and Nintendo were directly competing with PlayStation. Not nearly as much any more. This is where we fundamentally disagree and that's obviously not going to change so I suggest we move on.
 
onQ123 said:
You're missing the point .

I'm saying that if PS1 & PS2 was better than PS5 without competition from Xbox why worry about PS5 without competition from Xbox?
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Industry was different then though. It wasn't nearly as driven by annual releases and microtransactions weren't a thing. The only way to continue to make money was to make new games.

Look at the PS1 best sellers:

en.wikipedia.org

List of best-selling PlayStation video games - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

These are core gaming experiences driving the userbase....FF7, Gran Turismo, Tekken 3, Crash Bandicoot, Metal Gear Solid, Tomb Raider. Sony made those games because that's what people wanted the console for...now the consoles sell primarily to people who buy CoD, FIFA, Fortnite, etc and those franchises have way more avenues for monetization.
 
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Topher said:
Even with PS1/PS2 dominance, Xbox and Nintendo were directly competing with PlayStation. Not nearly as much any more. This is where we fundamentally disagree and that's obviously not going to change so I suggest we move on.
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Nintendo , Xbox , PC , phones & streaming is way more competition than PS1 & PS2 had
 
onQ123 said:
Nintendo , Xbox , PC , phones & streaming is way more competition than PS1 & PS2 had
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Phone and streaming aren't direct competition though. They're competing for attention, sure, but it's a lot different than competing with Xbox. If you're competing with Xbox your goal is to make better games than them...not really the same.
 
Xbox one generation was a disaster and PS4 was a very strong generation. If that didn't kill xbox, they certainly aren't dying when Sony is falling all over itself trying to publish any exclusive games of value because they made a huge mistake going all in on the GAAS trend. This is the worst Playstation generation in terms of exclusive games in its 5 generation history. Xbox needs leadership willing to capitalize on that.
 
Great point. Xbox is becoming a PC, so for the first time in 20 years, PlayStation won't have to worry about Microsoft.

I think the next battle is with handhelds, which means the main competitor will be Nintendo. A (rumored) PS6 handheld will be a terrible value proposition if it only has 3rd-party games -- the same games that will show up on the Switch 2. So the motivation should be that in order to have a shot against Nintendo, first-party development must continue.
 
So much of the usual stupid shit in this thread.

Games are just too expensive to make for a single company, even a major platform holder, to prop up their brand these days. Microsoft spent practically Sony's Corps entire market cap buying up the industry only to discover that the only way to recoup that spend is to go multi-platform. Nintendo has got by up to now with their withered tech approach, but lets face it, their releases are getting fewer and further apart too as dev costs and time-scales increase.

As to the rest of the usual "people will all go to PC"... Why haven't they gone there already ? Its not like the PC scene has gotten vastly better over the past few years, it sure as hell hasn't got any cheaper. Point being, some people would rather have a console than a PC to game, is why not everyone is going to jump onboard steam.

Sony's motivation isn't going to change and their plan will be to put out a couple of tentpole releases a year plus assorted smaller titles. Outside of that are the multi-platform GAAS products because they offer the potential for massive ROI if they hit it big, and objectively the console market has a predictable size-cap. Its a mature market, and even if they released a shit-ton of exclusives a year it wouldn't improve their bottom line much because, again, the average user spend per year is a known quantity because its a mature market with years of data to support sales projections.
 
Sony haven't had to compete with Xbox at all. Maybe around the start of the 360 sony might of been concerned. But by 2010 I'm sure they didn't care.
But it's irrelevant, they need software to drive hardware.if their releases seem to have dropped off, it's more to do with long development times, some titles not working out (online) and just bad alignment. They need software in other to make money, they're not releasing titles to punish you or because they're evil. It's just timed out badly.
 
Sony wouldn't care even if Xbox was in a healthier position. They've basically learned that the console will sell regardless of their own level of involvement. They've consolidated their studios into 1) a handful of the biggest names with a lot of historical prestige, and 2) their live service studios, which they are just gambling with to see which will land the next big thing™.

It's especially evident this year that they don't actually need to release all that many games because third parties will just fill out the rest of the release calendar. I've said before that PS5 gamers are eating good this year but that has little to do with what Sony are putting out. It's why even a PC or Nintendo gamer can watch any given State of Play and most of it will still be applicable to their chosen platform.
 
I suppose they still have an incentive to keep people buying into their ecosystem, rather than drifting off to PC or Switch. But I certainly agree that without Xbox nipping at their heels, they will be prone to complacency.

Oh well. I'm prone to complacency too, so they can join me. Complacency is underrated.
 
Simple:

Just keep feeding the retard normies their Fortnite, COD, and sportsball every year. Most of those idiots are completely unaware of gaming outside of that.

CGwQHtMdE7VfMLZd.gif
 
Tg89 said:
Phone and streaming aren't direct competition though. They're competing for attention, sure, but it's a lot different than competing with Xbox. If you're competing with Xbox your goal is to make better games than them...not really the same.
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They really are kids who used to ask for consoles are now asking for phones & tablets this is a fact
 
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