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[ReBurn]

I don't know if you mean the jargon, or the actual grammar, but it is written poorly. Maybe English is not the author's native language, or maybe it was written by AI?

Gems like this:
"Imagining all the possibilities laid on the table, the official removal of those half races opens doors to a whole new way to build not just characters, but worlds and cultures."

edit: The author is a "lead editor" with a degree in "English and Creative Writing". Maybe I am the dumb one here? Actually, never mind. Her duties with the site are to promote it via SEO and such. So, yeah, probably ChatGPT or something got involved.

Reading the thing made my head hurt.

 

[Jigsaah]

No worries! See above for a pretty good rundown! The general point is that TSR era D&D had very different play expectations baked into the game. 3e/4e/5e assumes the characters are 'heroes' from the start, and that they're special snowflakes in the game. Earlier D&D assumes that the characters are largely nobodies at the beginning of the game, and their aim is to delve into dungeons and other dangerous situations to make some coin in an uncaring and harsh world. There's more to it than this, but that's the basics. Did every table play that way? No, but that was the default.





In TSR era D&D, various races had class level maximums as well as hard racial caps/minimums on ability scores, partially because of Gygax's desire for a humanocentric campaign world, partially to enforce genre conventions at the time, and partially as a way to 'offset' the racial special abilities that elves, dwarves, etc got. In return, demihumans were able to be more than one class at the same time, generally getting the best benefits of each one.

Ability scores were generally scaled on *human* averages, meaning the average human will be stronger than the average halfling, or the average elf will be more agile but less hardy than the average dwarf. By taking racial limits/bonuses away from the various races (ie, halflings can have an 18 strength, half-orcs and dwarves can be wizards, etc.) the game is essentially putting all races on the same scale, and making elves 'humans that don't sleep' or halflings 'short humans that love food'. The root of this issue is that due to 5e's design, a race that cannot have the max in a given ability score will by default be a suboptimal choice for a class that needs that ability score, so in order to make every race/class combination 'viable', they should all have the same statblocks.

I simply don't find that interesting - they way elves, orcs, and dwarves think and experience the world should be completely foreign to a human, and to one another. Orcs are evolved to aggressively expand their territory for the orcs, they don't have the same drives and morality that humans, elves, and dwarves do. Does that make them 'evil'? If the definitions in your game's system of morality (ie, the alignment system - let's not get into how it used to be derived from cosmic forces) comes from a human outlook, then it probably does.

As far as the 'randos' comment - the default assumption of a 5e D&D game for a 'modern' online player (when I say that, I'm talking about the very vocal, terminally online D&D redditor types) is that the game is going to be heroic, that their character needs a significant backstory, the game is generally narrative/quest driven, and that their character isn't going to die without their input/consent on it. No this isn't everyone, but these are the people that have a voice in the direction of the game, because they're the most vocal. "Fun" is a subjective term, and if someone is having fun, who am I to tell them they aren't allowed to? My issue arises when the game is greatly changed to make the vocal minority stop complaining.


Sorry for the wall of text - this is a sore subject for me. If you're interested in an older-school style of play, check out Principia Apocrypha for a pretty decent example of how those games were played. I have real concern that the big jump in players due to stuff like Critical Role (I met a guy with a tattoo of a full set of polyhedrals, wearing D&D pins, etc. that *has never played an RPG*) is going to shape the hobby, then that group will just leave once the fad dies down, leaving the industry in a rut again.

Oooo Ok I get it a bit more now. No worries, it's an interesting read if I'm honest. I think that even my friends aren't really familiar with the history of D&D, nor have strong opinions about this kind of stuff because we kinda do our own thing...I guess playing loosely within 5e standards. Like I think Bloodhunter was something that was added...not really part of the original game if I'm not mistaken? Also our current D&D campaign borrows a bit from anime. The story is actually an isekai...alternate world. Think "Sword Art Online" if you're familiar. So we actually have 2 characters. An in game avatar and our "out of game" character.

After reading this thread...I feel like this might be somewhat blasphemous, but I don't know any better haha! I will check out that link!

 

[shoplifter]

After reading this thread...I feel like this might be somewhat blasphemous, but I don't know any better haha! I will check out that link!

if you're having fun, that's all that matters

having been playing this long, i have very strong opinions at this point

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Wizard and Hasbro are completely rotten by woke ideology

 

[Ozzie666]

My introduction was the box sets.
Red basic, Expert dark blue, Campaigns light blue or cyan, Master black and immortals gold box. If memory serves.

Never graduated to advanced beyond a few books of interest. But there was more than enough content.

Good simple times never remember any issues with race or half races.

 

[STARSBarry]

they will find a way to ruin that universe too

They did, its called "Age of Sigmar" because they lost a copywrite lawsuit on generic elves, empire troops and skeleton models. So decided to throw the baby out with the bathwater and create copywritable "Ground Marines" no one can sell models of.

Their return to fantasy is a test to see if they can still make money from armies 3rd parties can create models for and still turn a profit.

 

[Hudo]

Is Baldur's Gate III not canon, then?

 

[STARSBarry]

Is Baldur's Gate III not canon, then?

It Is for 5e, I don't think the developers would like to redo the game mechanics to fall in line with what is currently a relatively untested and unbalanced edition that's generally disliked by the community.

This "one dnd" is the edition that had the huge backlash when they tried to force a subscription for it and stop people making homebrew expansions themselves.

 

[unlurkified]

“While the decision to do away with half races has sparked some controversy from players who enjoying creating these kinds of characters, Wizards of the Coast's decision will actually improve gameplay options while moving the game forward in its quest for greater inclusivity.”

How? Just slapping on the term ‘inclusive’ just automagically makes it a compelling argument? I genuinely don’t understand how anyone could get offended by the term ‘half’ being applied to their fictional character.

 

[Hudo]

It Is for 5e, I don't think the developers would like to redo the game mechanics to fall in line with what is currently a relatively untested and unbalanced edition that's generally disliked by the community.

This "one dnd" is the edition that had the huge backlash when they tried to force a subscription for it and stop people making homebrew expansions themselves.

The ironic thing is that one of the most popular characters (and among coomers certainly the second-most popular) is Shadowheart, who is a half-elf.

 

[winjer]

Apartheid in videogames. And these people do it under the guise of being progressive.

 

[FeralEcho]

It's like the opposite of the Nintendo Seal of Quality. It's the Sweet Baby Seal of Satan.

It's the LJN of this generation only instead of bad game design is forced retarded politics no one asked for.

 

[kyussman]

They went full KKK.....never go full KKK.

 

[FeralEcho]

I wonder what fuckery they did with Rocksteady on Suicide Squad game

Poison Ivy is a child now....you know...THE redhead femme fatale from Batman's rogue gallery that was almost bareass in the Arkham Trilogy and made men her slaves with her attraction spores. You can bet your bottom turning Ivy into a child was their idea.

 

[Faust]

They did, its called "Age of Sigmar" because they lost a copywrite lawsuit on generic elves, empire troops and skeleton models. So decided to throw the baby out with the bathwater and create copywritable "Ground Marines" no one can sell models of.

Their return to fantasy is a test to see if they can still make money from armies 3rd parties can create models for and still turn a profit.

There were many reasons for AoS such as the fact that armies had to be increasingly larger to play a full game, which cost a lot of money. New rules made the game actively worse to play to the point that the majority of players refused to buy the new rule book and play older editions.

Fantasy was bleeding them money due to their incompetence on how they wrote and sold the game.

TOW so far seems to fix all those issues. Less armies, easier to jump in, larger army starter sets, more focused on rules similar to the favorite editions, promotion of unit fillers to make each box stretch that much more - I am excited to get my Tomb Kings box next week

 

[Cyberpunkd]

I'm able bodied and all, but I thought the point of imaginary kinds of games is to NOT replicate real life.

And that was the case for decades till circa 2017-2018, nowadays no matter the medium it needs to reflect current societal climate and challenges. So no, escapism is dead. Good news however - it will coma back in 10-30 years after everyone gets tired of woke stuff all the time.

 

[shoplifter]

There were many reasons for AoS such as the fact that armies had to be increasingly larger to play a full game, which cost a lot of money. New rules made the game actively worse to play to the point that the majority of players refused to buy the new rule book and play older editions.

Fantasy was bleeding them money due to their incompetence on how they wrote and sold the game.

TOW so far seems to fix all those issues. Less armies, easier to jump in, larger army starter sets, more focused on rules similar to the favorite editions, promotion of unit fillers to make each box stretch that much more - I am excited to get my Tomb Kings box next week

Yeah, AoS is fine I guess, but it doesn't appeal to me in the same way WHFB did. I'm super hyped about TOW and it seems like the rules updates have done a lot to descale the power from 8th. I think it's going to be way more successful than people might have thought a year ago. The question is if it's going to pull players back from 9th Age, Kings of War, and WAP. With the 'legacy' armies happening, I suspect that some won't come back but I won't be surprised to see them start getting more support if the line takes off. Word was that they were all done at the same level of detail the armies in the main books were, then GW brass made the team pull them from official support. The community will probably step in on them long-term if GW doesn't bring them fully back anyway. I was absolutely shocked to see the official approval of unit fillers.

Picked up a box of Brets and buying some 3d prints online to fill them out. Getting my Skaven and HE armies out of storage. Dis gon be gud.

 

[STARSBarry]

There were many reasons for AoS such as the fact that armies had to be increasingly larger to play a full game, which cost a lot of money. New rules made the game actively worse to play to the point that the majority of players refused to buy the new rule book and play older editions.

Fantasy was bleeding them money due to their incompetence on how they wrote and sold the game.

TOW so far seems to fix all those issues. Less armies, easier to jump in, larger army starter sets, more focused on rules similar to the favorite editions, promotion of unit fillers to make each box stretch that much more - I am excited to get my Tomb Kings box next week

OK I will admit that's much better reasoning than my hot take, but I want my peasant army with halfling hot pots thanks. Also the AoS rules where better when they involved things early on like having a bushier mustash.

Also back to DnD because this is turning into a "warhammer is awesome" thread, which we all know.

 

[Complistic]

Make everyone gnomes, come on wizards.

 

[FunkMiller]

Poison Ivy is a child now....you know...THE redhead femme fatale from Batman's rogue gallery that was almost bareass in the Arkham Trilogy and made men her slaves with her attraction spores. You can bet your bottom turning Ivy into a child was their idea.

That choice is just plain fucking weird, and a wee bit creepy all round.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I date only black women. This offends me greatly.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Ah the one drop dice rule.

 

[Ozzie666]

Make everyone gnomes, come on wizards.

Gnomes are the best Wizards in Everquest. No debate. Not sure abouT WTC DD though