xaosslug
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Wkd B.O. 06•01-03•18 - And with the snap of a finger Solo's legs vanish, SW franchise Adrift? Thanos laughs to the bank: IW closing in on $650m DOM
- Thread starter xaosslug
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Grinchy
Banned
She's been the producer on a lot of really good movies in the past. Since the joke has always been that no one knows what producers actually do, I wonder what happened. Did she not have a lot of say in the movies that were good? Did she have too much power for these terrible Star Wars movies? Or is it the opposite? I hope we find out some day what things were like behind the scenes.
ruvikx
Banned
Disney has shown absolutely zero creativity with their Star Wars movies, i.e. none. In four films, we've endured two parts of the main sequel trilogy which were (quite honestly) an abomination in multiple ways - mostly in terms of the sheer magnitude of the 'we'll remake the 70's/80's trilogy with new characters & hope no one notices' BS which is destroying their credibility - whilst the two spin-off prequel tales merely build upon the (once again) first trilogy. Rogue One was the only bright spot in this quagmire of garbage, IMO. I personally believe people still haven't quite grasped the awfulness of the (supposed) flag bearing Rey/Ren trilogy which had absolutely zero planning/writing/story arc determined in advance beyond extremely superficial outlines worthy of bad fanfiction (The New Order versus rebels & a droid with a 'secret'? Really? i.e. I've read better Star Wars plots from 12 year olds).
Once the dust settles people will laugh their asses off at this (predictable) debacle. Hollywood needs better storytellers, i.e. the rest is all inconsequential by comparison. Disney & their own new version of Lucasfilm are a total fail on that front. It makes me laugh inside when I see so called 'expert analysts' debating 'why' these films are losing steam... i.e. hello? Perhaps because they're completely uninteresting with mediocre actors & trash convoluted plots which disintegrate upon close inspection? No one asked themselves why Daredevil with Ben Affleck (for those of us who weren't born yesterday) was a bomb, i.e. when sheer marketing propaganda & novelty (the force awakens + other successes for similar such mediocre movies) is no longer enough to get asses in the movie theatre, kaboom, Solo happens.
The history of Hollywood is a graveyard of sh*t movies which initially enjoyed massive success... until the genre in question (& ensuing sequels) awakened (pun unintended) most movie goers vis-à-vis the awfulness of that particular franchise/type of film.
Once the dust settles people will laugh their asses off at this (predictable) debacle. Hollywood needs better storytellers, i.e. the rest is all inconsequential by comparison. Disney & their own new version of Lucasfilm are a total fail on that front. It makes me laugh inside when I see so called 'expert analysts' debating 'why' these films are losing steam... i.e. hello? Perhaps because they're completely uninteresting with mediocre actors & trash convoluted plots which disintegrate upon close inspection? No one asked themselves why Daredevil with Ben Affleck (for those of us who weren't born yesterday) was a bomb, i.e. when sheer marketing propaganda & novelty (the force awakens + other successes for similar such mediocre movies) is no longer enough to get asses in the movie theatre, kaboom, Solo happens.
The history of Hollywood is a graveyard of sh*t movies which initially enjoyed massive success... until the genre in question (& ensuing sequels) awakened (pun unintended) most movie goers vis-à-vis the awfulness of that particular franchise/type of film.
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
I think Hollywood
I‘m sure that Hollywood has more than enough good writers - or they could have if they wanted to. Thing is, I seriously doubt there is a lot of creative freedom in the process of writing a screenplay in Hollywood - especially for blockbusters like Star Wars. Imagine yourself writing a great screenplay only to see it going through multiple revisions in higher levels. Just read the horror stories. There are more than enough on the internet. Any good and halfway sane writer will probably rather write a novel than see his writing being dismantled and revised by some suits who want every story to be in way it can generate maximum profits.
Kadayi
Banned
Someone linked me to this guy, whose supposedly a big supporter of KK and it seems even he is calling into question her continued role at Lucasfilm: -
He actually makes some great points, despite still seemingly having his head firmly up her ass.
pramod
Banned
I've been looking up her filmography, and was shocked to realize she's helped produced most of my favorite movies of all time. But, she's also produced a lot of duds like TLJ and Jurassic Park III.
When I go over her detailed filmography, I do notice that she was usually the associate producer or executive producer, and not the direct producer, on most of the good movies. (Indy trilogy, Schindler's List, etc)
And her track record as sole Producer was pretty hit and miss (maybe with the exception of E.T.) So maybe that shows she's probably not someone who can handle a blockbuster franchise like Star Wars on her own(where every movie has to be a guaranteed hit). She seems to work better with other people's input.
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Musky_Cheese
Banned
TLJ is the JP3 of Star Wars. Although I’d rather watch JP3
Sorcerer
Member
I have heard guesses up to 500 million. 3 directors almost the entire movie re-shot. They should have just let Lord and Miller complete the movie. It might not have been a better movie but they could have kept the production cost reasonable, avoided all the controversy and just let it die a happier death than it is dying now.
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strange headache
Banned
Gold_Loot
Member
Good point, I forgot about the reshoots and director switch. Man, I hate seeing this happen to this franchise.
CampbellzSoup
Member
Sums up KK in a nutshell. Never did I think of politics until these movies started hamfisting it in.
LordPezix
Member
Yeah, just sucks man. I really like Star Wars as I never was a Star Trek kid and now I just don't even care. Like I don't mind if you want to have a little mix up with empowering women ( I like Rey, minus her being kinda Mary sue) but when you fucking plaster an entire franchise with man hate it's just a recipe that won't turn out well.
But I mean I'm a guy, what the hell do I know. Maybe the female audiences like it more?
CampbellzSoup
Member
I also don’t get the argument you’re sexist if you don’t like this either... the fuck? Princess Leia defines powerful woman without being a SJW and had flaws...Rei with no training can take on powerful Sith Lords without a scratch!
LordPezix
Member
Yeah I don't either. I love my heroines, like I can't have Dom Torreto without Letty, or I don't want to watch stranger things unless Eleven is in it too. I feel like in the old days you could have really powerful female characters without shitting the male characters every chance you get.
I don't get where this one upping came from but maybe my masculinity is threatened and that is why I am responding the way I am.... lol
Like Yoda,... YODA himself didn't exactly win the fight against Dooku. Not sure how much a junk scavenger could contend with any Sith, of any level at all, but you know, it's a movie.
Sakura Doritos
Member
Yeah Kathleen Kennedy needs to give Dave Filoni the reigns of the Star Wars universe to make a decisive direction.
Star Wars has always been about or has features some stage of politics in some manner. From the dissolved senate in A New Hope, to the Cloud City losing its autonomy or the rebellion vs an Empire.
Then the Sequels are just seeping with politics.
I mean I don’t care for the hamfisted politics they are pushing now but the adventures have always had some wink or nudge to politics as a whole.
Star Wars has always been about or has features some stage of politics in some manner. From the dissolved senate in A New Hope, to the Cloud City losing its autonomy or the rebellion vs an Empire.
Then the Sequels are just seeping with politics.
I mean I don’t care for the hamfisted politics they are pushing now but the adventures have always had some wink or nudge to politics as a whole.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
I'm still in disbelief that IW won't top BP domestic.
NOBODY saw that coming.
Will be interesting to see how Ant Man performs. Deadpool 2 is so different from MCU. I was feeling the "fatigue" with IW.
NOBODY saw that coming.
Will be interesting to see how Ant Man performs. Deadpool 2 is so different from MCU. I was feeling the "fatigue" with IW.
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
Seems to work out for them though when you look at the numbers. I mean, none of these movies will end up being a classic but they sure make Disney money (Solo being the exception it seems), so it's unlikely that something will change.
Prequel Han is a Mary Sue too. There are worse things than Mary Sues...like The Last Jedi. Not much is worse than The Last Jedi in terms of ruining great characters retroactively.
pramod
Banned
Yeah right now I wish they never put the old classic characters in these new movies. Star Wars is ruined for me now.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This does look to be pretty bad. I like TLJ, but with numbers like SOLO........She's going to need Episode 9 to hit hard!
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Nope Star Wars is still great regardless of internet people crying about the movies. The money is still rolling in and the critical scores are still high.
ickythingz
Banned
You sir are correct. Thank you for writing this so I didn't have to.
Haven’t all previous Star Wars movies done pretty well? I didn’t see the last Jedi, and I don’t have any negative feelings for anything on the politics side of things. And while I know I will eventually see the last Jedi, I probably will never see Solo because I just never cared. There was never anything suggested about his backstory that made me want to see it realized
I don’t see a “hook” for this film besides the fact that it’s a Star Wars film. Even seeing a young Han Solo in the trailers didn’t look too appealing. Not surprised if a large part of the potential audience felt the same.
I don’t see a “hook” for this film besides the fact that it’s a Star Wars film. Even seeing a young Han Solo in the trailers didn’t look too appealing. Not surprised if a large part of the potential audience felt the same.
MrRogers
Member
Wrong. Star Wars flicks will continue to bleed money, no one will watch or care about disney era Star Wars in 20 years (hell 5-10), no one will remember Rey and Ren (and all the other terrible characters), and modern movies critics reviews are crumbling in contrast to word of mouth and actual moviegoer experience and are generally worth less than the town drunks opinion... At least he is honest.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This is probably the bigger reason why Solo isn't doing out of this world great compared to the other movies.
I think they've got a crisis on their hands. I think there's more invested in the Star Wars franchise now than there was when the prequels bombed, but as bad as they were, what kept them from destroying the franchise was that there was a direction. No matter how much Lucas screwed around in the first two films, he had to bring things "home" in the third film, and thus that film, despite a lot of narm, was an improvement over the first two, so the arrow was pointing up, and plotwise, the original films followed.
Here? Who knows. Where does Star Wars even go for Episode 9? Where's the direction?
The other problem they've got is too many Star Wars movies. These things were events. Now you get one every year.
Here? Who knows. Where does Star Wars even go for Episode 9? Where's the direction?
The other problem they've got is too many Star Wars movies. These things were events. Now you get one every year.
WaterAstro
Member
I'm just hoping IW finally hits that 2 billion mark. It's so close.
JLMC469
Banned
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CampbellzSoup
Member
As bad as they were...they were coherent and didn’t try to cram SJW nonsense in it. Ugh episode 2 is still horrible for other reasons.
LordPezix
Member
So being a finance nerd here are some quick numbers for you.
Please keep in mind that of course these figures could be slightly different depending on your source. But I thought this would be fun to see.
So Disney buys Lucasarts for 4bil in 2012 (I am counting it 2013 since it was at the end of 2012 to make calculation easier) -- End of 2015 (Counting as 2016) they release TFA to a WW tune of just smudge over 2bil with a production budget of 245mil -- End of 2016 (Counting as 2017) they release Rogue one to a WW tune of 1bil with a production budget of 200mil -- End of 2017 (Counting at 2018) they release TLJ to a WW tune of 1.3bil with a budget of 210mil.
Now we have Solo which is still in theaters and the numbers for production I don't believe are finalized but so far here is what we have.
NPV = - $4,000,000,000 + $0/1.07(2014) + $0/1.07^2(2015) + (2,000,000,000 - 245,000,000)/1.07^3(2016) + (1,000,000,000 - 200,000,000)/1.07^4(2017) + (1,300,000,000 - 210,000,000)/1.07^5(2018)
All this adds up to -1,179,926,120.78 value lost of their 4 billion investment into the franchise. ON THE MOVIES ALONE.
Yes I understand there are things like physical copy sales and toys and such. This was just to look at how the Movies alone have panned out for Disney.
Also if you're a finance nerd I picked a 7% interest rate as a sort of safe ground, I would expect Disney was calculating possibly an even higher discount rate but I didn't want to be to bearish and use the fed/WSJ rate because that would seem silly.
So there we have it folks, as I said before the numbers have some wiggle room but from a top down view, Disney has lost just over a billion dollars on the movies WITHOUT including the wreckage that is Solo.
Please keep in mind that of course these figures could be slightly different depending on your source. But I thought this would be fun to see.
So Disney buys Lucasarts for 4bil in 2012 (I am counting it 2013 since it was at the end of 2012 to make calculation easier) -- End of 2015 (Counting as 2016) they release TFA to a WW tune of just smudge over 2bil with a production budget of 245mil -- End of 2016 (Counting as 2017) they release Rogue one to a WW tune of 1bil with a production budget of 200mil -- End of 2017 (Counting at 2018) they release TLJ to a WW tune of 1.3bil with a budget of 210mil.
Now we have Solo which is still in theaters and the numbers for production I don't believe are finalized but so far here is what we have.
NPV = - $4,000,000,000 + $0/1.07(2014) + $0/1.07^2(2015) + (2,000,000,000 - 245,000,000)/1.07^3(2016) + (1,000,000,000 - 200,000,000)/1.07^4(2017) + (1,300,000,000 - 210,000,000)/1.07^5(2018)
All this adds up to -1,179,926,120.78 value lost of their 4 billion investment into the franchise. ON THE MOVIES ALONE.
Yes I understand there are things like physical copy sales and toys and such. This was just to look at how the Movies alone have panned out for Disney.
Also if you're a finance nerd I picked a 7% interest rate as a sort of safe ground, I would expect Disney was calculating possibly an even higher discount rate but I didn't want to be to bearish and use the fed/WSJ rate because that would seem silly.
So there we have it folks, as I said before the numbers have some wiggle room but from a top down view, Disney has lost just over a billion dollars on the movies WITHOUT including the wreckage that is Solo.
Solo: I'm a Last Jedi hater so maybe that's why I have no interest in seeing this. I thought TFA was flawed but a step in the right direction so I'm not a full on Star Wars hater.
I'm glad it isn't doing well though. I hope it forces them to course correct.
Avengers: I thought Black Panther was ok but over hyped. Avengers had a lot of hype too but I really enjoyed it.
Deadpool: Very worthy successor to the original. Not quite as good but I really liked it.
I'm glad it isn't doing well though. I hope it forces them to course correct.
Avengers: I thought Black Panther was ok but over hyped. Avengers had a lot of hype too but I really enjoyed it.
Deadpool: Very worthy successor to the original. Not quite as good but I really liked it.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Yeah without knowing those other revenues for Star Wars your numbers don't conclude much. It's nice to see it broken down in that way though.
And will Black Panther break $700 Million in domestically!!!!????
LordPezix
Member
Well yes and no, we know Solo is a loss so the revenue from theater ticket sales hasn't been successful. But you're right, do we know if the Star Wars franchise has been a success for Disney without the other hard numbers no.
And the thing to keep in mind here is as it stands the the theater ticket sales hasn't seen a profitable return to Disney, but it very well could in the future with further releases right.
BP sitting at $699,160,600 as of June 4th. Only $839,400 to go. I wasn't exactly a fan of BP but its success is important so I wish to see it continue to succeed.