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Wolfenstein TNO: 2014 GotY + one of the best shooters ever *GIF WARNING*

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Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
(I'd swear you jump between Berlin and London as if they are the same)
I'm not calling you out specifically, but I have to wonder if people would even mention this if they used an Indiana Jones "red line on a map" or something.
 

lmbotiva

Junior Member
i went on pure hype and ended up buying the game, IMHO is not that good, its an okay shooter but that's all there is, i don't even feel the desire to play it anymore, thinking of trade it in for something else
 

Alebelly

Member
Its the best console release game Ive played this year, not really close even. Left me wanting more. One of those games you play again a year later and its even better than you remembered it.
 
As soon as I build my gaming PC, this will be the first purchase I make for it. Kind of kicking myself in the arse for not getting a chance to play Wolfenstein 2008.
 

Levyne

Banned
As soon as I build my gaming PC, this will be the first purchase I make for it. Kind of kicking myself in the arse for not getting a chance to play Wolfenstein 2008.

Eh. Many people will say it's underrated, but I wouldn't dwell too much about skipping that one :p
 

Sky Chief

Member
Nice OP, I think you hit on all the major points. Definitely my GOTY so far.

This game really shows how great games can be. Any movie where the same things happened would be ridiculous and dumb and yet in a game setting it works so well because it is so bad ass and fun.
 
Armored heavies aren't fun to fight, especially on higher difficulties, and especially when the game seems keen to dropping you in crazy small areas to fight them in, but everything else is top notch.

Also agree with OP's shout out to Syndicate's gunplay. And since co-op in that game was pretty much nothing but continuous shooting it'll go down as one of my all time favorites.

Come to think of it, Syndicate had the same kinds of heavies, but that game offered you extra abilities to use to take them down.
 

Tacitus_

Member
I'm not calling you out specifically, but I have to wonder if people would even mention this if they used an Indiana Jones "red line on a map" or something.

When they radio you about the
attack at the base
you skip merrily there with a car, a journey that's said to take over 10 hours earlier.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
Armored heavies aren't fun to fight, especially on higher difficulties, and especially when the game seems keen to dropping you in crazy small areas to fight them in, but everything else is top notch.

Also agree with OP's shout out to Syndicate's gunplay. And since co-op in that game was pretty much nothing but continuous shooting it'll go down as one of my all time favorites.

once you have the scoped-laser and rockets, they go down so quickly
 

Volcane

Member
Bought it in the Steam Sale. But doesn't seem to like my laptop gpu (7970m). The fps doesn't seem too bad according to fraps, but it doesn't move smooth. And the pop-in when turning is diabolical.
 
Yep, I share your enthusiasm, OP. It's a really fun and enjoyable game. The shooting is very satisfying. Played it on PS4, but will double dip on Steam when it's cheaper.

Also, fuck Deathshead on Uber, he's such an aggravating dick in the last section.
 

Seik

Banned
Oh man, I have the game on my shelf since a few weeks and I didn't gave it a spin yet.

You guys are making it hard, I have a backlog to respect ffs! D:
 
Can't believe there's finally a game where I can say "the critics got it right". Game was good but not nearly as good as some on GAF might suggest.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Armored heavies aren't fun to fight, especially on higher difficulties, and especially when the game seems keen to dropping you in crazy small areas to fight them in, but everything else is top notch.

What's with heavies these days? It's like every game has them. They're not fun or interesting.
 

FLEABttn

Banned
This game is a love letter to people who loved the FPS genre in the late 90s to mid 00s. It may not be the best FPS but it is the most fun I've had with one in years.
 

Mr. Tibbs

Member
I guess I'm an outlier then as I still think Raven did a better job rebooting Wolfenstein (2009).

If it was just shooting, New Order could've been a classic. Sadly it's bogged down by predictable badass nerd humor ("F*** you, Nazi Spaceman," - lets get this meme going lads) and an appalling, tone-deaf story.

This was the game that convinced me that Riddick was a one-off. Whatever magic that team had is long-gone now. This game resonates with people who like the trappings of the experience. The goofy little extras, rather than the moment-to-moment play. The shooting is great, but the world is a bad imitation of Dunwall, the weapons are mostly bog-standard and the pacing is truly atrocious.

How funny is it that despite the deep pockets of Zenimax, a legendary franchise, and
the developers pedigree, Starbreeze ended up making the better game. Brothers was a heartfelt innovative experience that will stay with me for a long time. I couldn't even be bothered playing through New Orders second time-line. It was just a drag.

Check out Shadow Warrior (2013) for the real deal. It absolutely smokes New Order in every respect.
 

malfcn

Member
What's with heavies these days? It's like every game has them. They're not fun or interesting.

Some people find them fun or challenging? They could also be a form of padding the game. A 10 second corridor may turn into a 10 minute spiral of reloading as you complete the "challenge" and move on.

Tempting to order this tonight and pickup at Best Buy tomorrow. It's $32 with GCU.
 

Kade

Member
What's with heavies these days? It's like every game has them. They're not fun or interesting.

They're fine if they've got a mechanic or trick to dispatching them. If they're just regular enemies with lots of HP and/or armour they're kind of annoying to fight. On Uber difficulty, the Robot Guards and Super Soldiers almost melted with laser weaponry, Fire Troopers had those tanks on their back that deal significant damage if they're blown up, Rocket Troopers died to 2-4 rockets depending on where you hit.
 

Mooreberg

is sharpening a shovel and digging a ditch
Started playing this yesterday, up to chapter six. Definitely agree with the praise so far. The level design so far sets it apart from what a lot of shooter campaigns have devolved into lately. Storytelling is a lot better than expected too.

I won't say the stealth always works perfectly with nobody coming across dead bodies a lot of the time and enemies not hearing hounds shrieking when you stab them, but it provides a good option. It also emphasizes taking a closer a look at your options for navigating the environment.

Looks to be good for a second play through as well. This game, Destiny, and Farcry 4 have me optimistic about shooter campaigns again.
 

SJS

Member
Hyperbole off the charts. I'm sorry, but while this game is good, there is no way in hell it's GOTY.

Cue "people are entitled to their opinions", and yes, but there are some serious issues with this game.


Barring your interesting historical analysis, replies to what you actually said about the game:

The maps are complex, packed with meaningful collectibles and alternate routes that remind me of older stealth games such as Splinter Cell where you go “oh I could have gone through there the whole time”. Thankfully, the big touted location is open and a visual treat. It’s a bit disappointing that there isn’t some significant gameplay change here (how awesome would zero grav combat be?) and it left me wanting more but I think that’s a good thing. Some levels aren’t as open which makes sense as the pace quickens in the story when you build up a reputation for the resistance from chapters 13 to the end.

Although there are ample opportunities to differentiate your methods of completing a stage, the map design is nevertheless linearized for the vast majority of the game. The pace is not at all quickened relative to the plot; in the final level, you are explicitly encouraged by masses of enemies extant around the nearest corners and well placed Laserkraftwerk charging locations to abuse the ADS ability on the LKW in a highly awkward guerilla style of gameplay. This playstyle is similarly encouraged for the final boss for both forms.

Additionally, the corridor-esque maps make stealth attacks a very awkward form of Dishonored takedowns (also, if you don't think that Dishonored is the inspiration, note the single knife animations and the fact that Bethesda has a role in both TNO and Dishonored).

It was out-of-the-blue when back at EGX London in September 2013, I realised I didn’t have to play the game like CoD in the case of avoiding aim-down-sights and adopting a more run-and-gun playstyle. There are no Call of Duty style “X” hit confirmation markers, a restrictive 2-weapon system (which is understandable for a pseudo-realistic military game), respawning perfectly accurate enemies, scripted trigger fails, follow the leader’s butt and wait for them to perform overdrawn animations, or overly tunnelling corridors (unless if it makes sense like in a submarine). There are no scripted weapon sections where an empowering weapon is given to you to take down a boss and is never used again.

While you are not required to play the game like COD, it is practically encouraged. Hip fire is essentially randomized after the first bullet is shot off something unless you take considerable breaks in between shots. You can test this by shooting at any wall of your choice.

The weapon switching system, while theoretically less restrictive, is practically awkward, particularly in tense situations on a game controller. It works well on PC from what I understand, but it is not well adapted to console gaming. A button tap-based switch mechanism would be less awkward.

Why bother with most of this stuff when you could just play it like CoD? That might be because the enemy AI is really good. They won’t charge at you like mindless cronies. They like to hang back and call others to flank you (this is all in German, too). If you’re hiding behind cover whack-a-mole’ing them one by one like a shooting gallery, they’ll flush you out with grenades or surprise you from the sides. Aiming down sights will make you a stationary target which you don’t really want with such aggressive Nazis. Even at the start of Chapter 14 in Return to London Nautica where you crash land via rope and Syndicate-style enemy takedown with not much of a weapon cache while being absolutely hammered via an ambush of a shotgun shrapnel dude and ten other enemies, it’s still advisable to move around. This thinking extends to the few boss fights that there are, too, where you're encouraged to use all your weapons.

These systems draw direct inspiration from COD. Shooting one nazi and having nearby nazis alert their comrades has always existed in COD. Grenades are deployed against you if you're overly defensive in COD. etc.

The idea that you're encouraged to use all of your weapons in the game's boss fights is an outright lie. The LKW is clearly preferred and easily abused with or without ADS lock-ons.

In many sections, you’ll have a chance to go stealth with taking down any commanders in the area who are the only ones to set off the alarm for reinforcements. My way was to take out the commanders first, and then go dual-wielding on the town with the rest of them.

This isn't so much your personal preference as it is a strategic adaptation to the game. If you alert the commanders, extra enemies are generally called into the area and the potential for you to get flanked and / or outnumbered is increased. You have everything to gain and nothing to lose by starting out commanded zones with a stealth gameplan.

I nearly forgot to mention there is a destruction system! Yeah, most of the wood/concrete [GIF] and metal grates [GIF] can be shot off too with the Laserkraftwerk, which is great in rattling out the few stranglers of enemies but also nail-biting when you’re on the receiving end of giant turret wielding Supersoldaten or heavy robots wrecking up all your cover giving even more impetus to not be pinned down in one spot.

While it's nice, much of this is pre-set, not dynamic, and either with a limited or highly specific use (i.e. first form of the final boss).


I’m not a diehard elitist when it comes to a certain brand of storytelling, but I do prefer when you can’t get everything from just a youtube playthrough. I like when not everything can be gleaned from just watching the cutscene library or listening to audio diaries or reading some supplemental materials. Remedy’s games (Max Payne 1 and 2, Alan Wake) are my absolute favourite mould where you still have dramatic cinematics but also there’s enough detail in the environment or through character interactions and pulpy noir inner monologues while you’re playing the game. There’s always something happening in your periphery. I feel this is how the influence of adventure games have carried on to qualify some games as truly action adventures. Which is all present in Wolfenstein: The New Order and what Machinegames set out to make.

TNO doesn't have an interesting story as much as a sensationalist one. It's at its best when it shocks you (i.e. robotic dog coming out of nowhere) and tries to make you feel hatred for your enemy or a sense of loss. Interpersonally and contextually, it is somewhat contrived and ridiculous. It's certainly an upgrade from the usual COD gung-ho shitfest, but I wouldn't insinuate that it's stellar.

The historical pieces and thematic music interspersed throughout the game are interesting, but they only provide a competent background to a silly plot.


Nearly every single character is interesting and memorable in their own way. The villains are chilling and charismatic. I’ve mentioned it elsewhere, the four main female characters (Caroline, Anya, Tekla, Frau Engel) are pretty great too. Unlikely relationships are built between allies like between Max Hass and Klaus (father-son like), Wyatt and J (they both love music), Fergus (greatest Scottish character in a videogame) and Tekla, Anya and Blazko (most naturally presented romance in a game), or Set Roth and Caroline. It’s all backed up by faultless voice acting from top to bottom (even the enemies shouting in German).

The characters are a mixed bag. Some are quite unusual, and the familial feel to the protagonists is a plus; however, a few of them, like Fergus and Klaus, are quite stereotypical. It's comparable to a well done Gears of War character set. As a matter of fact, for all her unoriginality, Anya does a really good job of being Anya (GoW)!




Since you didn't discuss the game's replay value, I'd like to bring that up. The game is a fully priced game with the length of a COD campaign, with a second story route that has a minimal influence on the game (I didn't complete it, so if I'm wrong, correct me). That is a big detractor from the game's quality. Games with even less content, like Titanfall, can manage to have replay value in their competitive aspect, which sustains replay value relative to the depth of player strategies used in combat; but TNO, as an SP game, is not afforded that privilege. Once you've experienced the game, you've accomplished almost all that you could do in it.


Overall, I like TNO, and it was a good purchase; but it is by no means game of the year or anything, dare I say it, game-changing. It's merely an FPS campaign that focused on its storytelling more than the average FPS. That's commendable, but not exaltable.
 
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Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
What's with heavies these days? It's like every game has them. They're not fun or interesting.

Being forced to move around an environment is worthwhile, though. Something that makes you reconsider the way you usually treat the space. It seems like the behavior heavies are meant to encourage.

It must be a tough problem. You make the heavy's damage output too weak -> players aren't intimidated. Raise the damage output -> players are too afraid to move at all. If most players sit behind cover and unload (I suspect this is true), then, yeah, they probably shouldn't be in games of this sort and a better solution should be found.
 

Mman235

Member
Since you didn't discuss the game's replay value, I'd like to bring that up. The game is a fully priced game with the length of a COD campaign, with a second story route that has a minimal influence on the game (I didn't complete it, so if I'm wrong, correct me). That is a big detractor from the game's quality. Games with even less content, like Titanfall, can manage to have replay value in their competitive aspect, which sustains replay value relative to the depth of player strategies used in combat; but TNO, as an SP game, is not afforded that privilege. Once you've experienced the game, you've accomplished almost all that you could do in it.

What? I don't think you've played a modern COD campaign/clone. Also the biggest thing that makes an SP game replayable is being good, not padding the length or adding artificial extras (though Wolfenstein has that as well)
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
I thought most of the characters were throwaway. What did I miss about Anya? She takes care of you while you are a vegetable but you see very little of it. Then you see her here and there throughout the game (where she turns out to be an incredible scientist, mind you) and you bang her twice. Any other development is through audio logs. This is weak.

Caroline is cool. Engel is a pretty good villain.

Being forced to move around an environment is worthwhile, though. Something that makes you reconsider the way you usually treat the space. It seems like the behavior heavies are meant to encourage.

It must be a tough problem. You make the heavy's damage output too weak -> players aren't intimidated. Raise the damage output -> players are too afraid to move at all. If most players sit behind cover and unload (I suspect this is true), then, yeah, they probably shouldn't be in games of this sort and a better solution should be found.

I would think more mobile enemies would make sense than HP sinks. I definitely thought they were HP sinks in this game unless you just pound the laser gun.
 

Phreak47

Member
The cool thing about this was coming into it with somewhat hedged expectations, then being pleasantly surprised by better than average story and voice acting.

He survived, I know he did, dammit!
 
Wolfenstein: The New Order is one of the great examples of having low expectations making a game beloved. It makes me happy that people like it so much.
 
It's a very, very good game. I gameflied it but I full intend on buying later this year, maybe on PC to replay through the alternate storyline. Can't wait.
 

DieH@rd

Banned
Whatever Bethesda lets them work on. Hopefully a new IP.

No. If MG wants to create a sequel [they said they would love to do one and they have mapped out story plans], I wish they would work on that. Pushing IPs to high end developers is never good.
 

Nibel

Member
Machinegames is the hardcore FPS developer we deserve.

Praise them.
EWmof.gif
 

chadboban

Member
Wow, GAF has really been making me consider picking this up. I've been in the mood for a good shooter lately. This is probably the best choice.
 

Steel

Banned
In the middle of it. Wouldn't call it my GoTY(It's somewhere in the middle of the list for that) but it's definitely the best game to have graced my PS4 since purchase. Reminds me of Bioshock.
 

Panda Rin

Member
most enjoyable single-player shooter I've ever played. I put it next to Dark Souls 2 as my GOTY so far. Destiny might dethrone that though.
 

SJS

Member
What? I don't think you've played a modern COD campaign/clone.

Though by themselves not an indicator of length, CODG has more SP chapters than TNO. I'd say the campaign length is roughly equal, only slightly in TNO's favor. Mind you, CODG is a game that focuses on its multiplayer, however pathetically.
 
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