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Women bloggers call for a stop to 'hateful' trolling by misogynist men

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Mumei

Member
Interesting article, I thought:

Crude insults, aggressive threats and unstinting ridicule: it's business as usual in the world of website news commentary – at least for the women who regularly contribute to the national debate.

The frequency of the violent online invective – or "trolling" – levelled at female commentators and columnists is now causing some of the best known names in journalism to hesitate before publishing their opinions. As a result, women writers across the political spectrum are joining to call for a stop to the largely anonymous name-calling.

The columnist Laurie Penny, who writes for the Guardian, New Statesman and Independent, has decided to reveal the amount of abuse she receives in an effort to persuade online discussion forums to police threatening comments more effectively.

"I believe the time for silence is over," Penny wrote on Friday, detailing a series of anonymous attacks on her appearance, her past and her family. The writer sees this new epidemic of misogynist abuse as tapping an old vein in British public life. Irrelevant personal attacks on women writers and thinkers go back at least to the late 18th century, she says. "The implication that a woman must be sexually appealing to be taken seriously as a thinker did not start with the internet: it's a charge that has been used to shame and dismiss women's ideas since long before Mary Wollstonecraft was called "a hyena in petticoats". The net, however, makes it easier for boys in lonely bedrooms to become bullies."

The cause has been taken up by New Statesman writer Helen Lewis-Hasteley, who invited other women to share their experience. "I wanted to have several writers addressing the issue at the same time because these threats are frightening but they are also embarrassing," she told the Observer. "I know many people will say that every commentator on the internet gets abuse, but what really came through to me when I was looking at this was the modus operandi of the attackers, which was to use the rape threat."

Caroline Farrow, a blogger for Catholic Voices, points out she has nothing in common with writers such as Laurie Penny except her gender, but is subject to the same violent abuse. The wife of a vicar and "quite orthodox", Farrow decided to write under her own name and photograph to take responsibility for her views. "But the downside is that for some men this seems to make you a legitimate sexual target. I get at least five sexually threatening emails a day." One of the least obscene recent messages read: "You're gonna scream when you get yours. Fucking slag. Butter wouldn't fucking melt, and you'll cry rape when you get what you've asked for. Bitch."

Linda Grant, who wrote a regular column for the Guardian in the late 1990s, has stopped writing online because of the unpleasant reaction. "I have given it up as a dead loss. In the past, the worst letters were filtered out before they reached me and crucially they were not anonymous," said Grant.

"What struck me forcibly about the new online world were the violence of three kinds of attitude: islamophobia, antisemitism, and misogyny. And it was the misogyny that surprised me the most. British national newspapers have done little, if anything, to protect their women writers from violent hate-speech."

The author and feminist writer Natasha Walter has also been deterred. "It's one of the reasons why I'm less happy to do as much journalism as I used to, because I do feel really uncomfortable with the tone of the debate," she said. "Under the cloak of anonymity people feel they can express anything, but I didn't realise there were so many people reading my journalism who felt so strongly and personally antagonistic towards feminism and female writers."

Lanre Bakare, who monitors the comments on the Guardian's Comment is Free website, said he was constantly looking out for attacks on female commentators on any subject. "It can be on European finance and there will still be some snide anti-woman remarks, but there are certain subjects, like abortion or domestic violence, which bring out trolls and then it becomes really unpleasant. Of course, if anyone is found making threats of sexual violence they are banned from the site instantly."

Lewis-Hasteley has also been surprised by some of the reaction to the growing campaign to protect women writers from this verbal abuse. "Someone asked me if I didn't realise that I wasn't really going to be raped. But the threat of sexual violence is an attack in itself, and some commentators have their Facebook pages searched, and their home addresses tracked. It's a real feeling of being hunted by these people."

Susie Orbach, a psychotherapist, psychoanalyst and writer, said: "The threat of sexual violence is a violence itself, it's a complete violation and it's meant to shut the people up. It's hateful and it raises the question, what do these men, or the people who are doing this, find so threatening? Is it that they feel attacked in their own masculinity and therefore sexuality in this violent form becomes the way that they establish a means to cover up their fragility by bringing their own vulnerability onto these women?

"If you set women up as sexual objects which society has, no matter what we are doing, that makes women into objects rather than human beings and what you create is a situation in which women who then stand up and make arguments about things, terrify these men who have no access to real women and so they beat them up in the terms in which they've been offered by society, which has nothing to do with the content of what they are saying. Women are supposed to be sexual objects, we're still not supposed to be thinking, feeling, complex human beings. It is due to the continual representation of women as just beauties, the attempt to reduce women to a surface on which we project sexuality. So we're not real people.

"The deeper question is the disenfranchisement of men who find themselves in such depraved circumstances that all they can do is expel the fury that's inside of them on to women. The reaction these men are having shows they are very, very threatened by something and that threat is to their masculinity.


"With sexual violence, what the victim is receiving is the self-hatred of the individual who is expressing that pain and upset that is inside of them in a very explosive manner. Rape is different to the threat of rape but nevertheless it's a very, very serious and threatening experience."


Link
 

Emily Chu

Banned
150px-Bawwwww_bunny.jpg


Freedom of speech

DEAL WITH IT

she is so u mad jelly butt pain....
 
Women are supplanting men in the western world. Weak men are lashing out. Also, do you guys in Britain really still use the term "the net"?
 
Copernicus said:
Maybe I'm misinterpreting what that says but...I thought it was inverted.

It's saying, which I haven't avoided either, that there are constant attacks on our looks which have fuck all to do with many issues we decide to talk about.
 

SRG01

Member
Emily Chu said:
150px-Bawwwww_bunny.jpg


Freedom of speech

DEAL WITH IT

Now here's an interesting debate: whether true or false, do defamation and slander, along with other hate speech, fall under free speech?
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Intelligent people rarely want to have anonymous discourse on some random blog or news site. They'll either want to talk about issues they have taken into consideration with their friends, or at least take them to one central location of discussion with a group they trust and have experience with.

For example, we're all going to be discussing this issue here on GAF rather than on TheGuardian. Usually it is only the thoughtless, reactionary plebs who instantly reply to something at the first place they hear it, so those types of responses shouldn't be considered equal in proportion to the number of people who might be receiving the arguments respectfully.
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
The term "trolling" implies that these comments are not genuine opinions, yet the article discusses them as if they were. Trolling is just saying things to get a reaction and this is exactly the sort of reaction that trolls want.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Women on my Internet... yadda yadda

The article writer calling this mere trolling (even though the word they were looking for was flaming) really does a disservice to these women. As the women say themselves, these are actually attacks. There's nothing clever in writing such writing rude and vulgar messages and not only does it offend these women, it ruins it for those who want to have innocent mischievous fun online because everyone get lumped with the same "trolling" label. I suppose they could get around the issue by posting anonymously themselves but we should be living in an age where one shouldn't have to hide to express their views.
 

kehs

Banned
Devolution said:
It's saying, which I haven't avoided either, that there are constant attacks on our looks which have fuck all to do with many issues we decide to talk about.

Totally not what I thought hat statement meant, heh.
 
Copernicus said:
Totally not what I thought hat statement meant, heh.

Yeah well it's easy to read into this stuff when it's unavoidable being called a fat ugly cunt who deserves to be raped on various places on the internet.

This thread sure went to shit quick about this issue though. Good job GAF.
 

Emily Chu

Banned
SRG01 said:
Now here's an interesting debate: whether true or false, do defamation and slander, along with other hate speech, fall under free speech?

well she can sure dish out the trolls too...
"makes it easier for boys in lonely bedrooms to become bullies."

if shes so butt hurt she should stop going on the net...

it's a battlefield out there.

The trolls are here to stay weather she likes it or not.
 

Jintor

Member
Devolution said:
Yeah well it's easy to read into this stuff when it's unavoidable being called a fat ugly cunt who deserves to be raped on various places on the internet.

This thread sure went to shit quick about this issue though. Good job GAF.

Pretty much.
 

Mumei

Member
Byakuya769 said:
Makes no sense. Usually the opposite.

Actually it goes both ways.

It is true that very attractive women are often treated merely as sources of sexual titillation and find it difficult for people to take them seriously as thinkers, but it is also true (and the experiences of many of the women bloggers speaking out in this article go in this direction) that women who aren't very attractive instead are attacked for being ugly rather than having their ideas addressed.
 

Apath

Member
SapientWolf said:
The term "trolling" implies that these comments are not genuine opinions, yet the article discusses them as if they were. Trolling is just saying things to get a reaction and this is exactly the sort of reaction that trolls want.
Trolling is a art
 

Dali

Member
Copernicus said:
Totally not what I thought hat statement meant, heh.
It's not what it meant. What devo said is true, but the statement the writer is saying is more in line with the way you interpreted it and I agree that the opposite seems to be the commonly held belief.
 
Mumei said:
Actually it goes both ways.

It is true that very attractive women are often treated merely as sources of sexual titillation and find it difficult for people to take them seriously as thinkers, but it is also true (and the experiences of many of the women bloggers speaking out in this article go in this direction) that women who aren't very attractive instead are attacked for being ugly rather than having their ideas addressed.

But they wouldn't have been taken seriously if they were attractive either. "Ugly" is just the tool of choice for people who would have found any reason to discredit them.
 
Dali said:
It's not what it meant. What devo said is true, but the statement the writer is saying is more in line with the way you interpreted it and I agree that the opposite seems to be the commonly held belief.

Eh it goes both ways. We're derided for either not being sexy enough or if a woman is indeed eye candy, probably being a bimbo who doesn't know shit and sleeps her way to the top.

Oh hey Olivia Munn thread.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
Mumei said:
Actually it goes both ways.

It is true that very attractive women are often treated merely as sources of sexual titillation and find it difficult for people to take them seriously as thinkers, but it is also true (and the experiences of many of the women bloggers speaking out in this article go in this direction) that women who aren't very attractive instead are attacked for being ugly rather than having their ideas addressed.
It doesn't matter if you're male or female on the Internet. If you aren't attractive you get attacked. And forget being taken seriously if you are overweight.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Emily Chu said:
well she can sure dish out the trolls too...
"makes it easier for boys in lonely bedrooms to become bullies."

if shes so butt hurt she should stop going on the net...

it's a battlefield out there.

The trolls are here to stay weather she likes it or not.
This isn't trolling. Taking the points of one of her articles and flipping it about in a nonsensical manner to make an retarded argument and getting her to respond to your post would be.

Then again your Yotsuba B background avatar tells me everything I need to know.
 

Mumei

Member
Byakuya769 said:
But they wouldn't have been taken seriously if they were attractive either. "Ugly" is just the tool of choice for people who would have found any reason to discredit them.

Yes, that's sort of the point. Do you often see men who either have their ideas ignored in lieu of being hit on, or being attacked for being too ugly as opposed to having their ideas attacked? Yes, I'm sure it happens here and there, but it's specifically because they are women that they are getting those specific kinds of attacks.
 
Tina Fey lays it out well in her book. She believes a woman is considered interesting until she gets old and ugly, at which point she gets labeled as crazy when she has an opinion.
 
Devolution said:
Eh it goes both ways. We're derided for either not being sexy enough or if a woman is indeed eye candy, probably being a bimbo who doesn't know shit and sleeps her way to the top.

Oh hey Olivia Munn thread.
Yeah, you have to be 'nerdy-chic' (not classically glamorous, but hopefully still with big tits, and maybe red hair or something) to hope for positive attention. If you're 'classically hot', you're a whore, and if you're a bit fat you're a fair target.
 

apana

Member
shadyspace said:
Women are supplanting men in the western world. Weak men are lashing out. Also, do you guys in Britain really still use the term "the net"?

What do you mean by weak?
 

Solo

Member
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
Tina Fey lays it out well in her book. She believes a woman is interesting until she gets old and ugly, at which point she gets labeled as crazy when she has an opinion.

Bullshit









She gets ignored when she's old.
 
Trolls are trolls. It doesn't matter what you blog about its going to get trolled to death.

Byakuya769 said:
Makes no sense. Usually the opposite.

No its usually that way. There's a reason why most female news anchors or spokesmen are attractive.

Solo said:
She gets ignored when she's old.

Iseewhatyoudidthere.png
 
Mumei said:
Actually it goes both ways.

It is true that very attractive women are often treated merely as sources of sexual titillation and find it difficult for people to take them seriously as thinkers, but it is also true (and the experiences of many of the women bloggers speaking out in this article go in this direction) that women who aren't very attractive instead are attacked for being ugly rather than having their ideas addressed.
Both of these happen to some extent, but in my experience, loud internet misogynists don't really make an exception for women they find attractive. It might change the variety of insults they throw, but usually it seems like they were going to be assholes regardless.
 
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