I disagree.
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Women Struggle with Monogamy More Than Men
- Thread starter Devolution
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I disagree.
ThisWreckage
Banned
Humans are only as loyal as their options.
MWS Natural
Member
Women Struggle with Monogamy More Than Men or:
How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Embrace the Cuckold
How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Embrace the Cuckold
I place a bit more faith in people.
I already find it hard to trust people ( anxiety stuff, quite dark) if I thought like that I wouldn't be able to interact with people.
Freezie KO
Banned
Well said. They never failed me.
Didn't expect a Gradius joke in this thread!
Monocle
Member
Strict monogamy coupled with strong cultural pressure to get married, stay married, and never under any circumstances compromise in your commitment hasn't exactly worked out well, has it? Checked divorce rates lately? They're staggering, hovering around 50% for first marriages in the US, and that doesn't even give you a glimpse of the dysfunctional marriages people stay trapped in for whatever reason. Open relationships are founded on an honest assessment of how people are wired. The fact is, most of us aren't cut out for monogamy. It's not uncommon for people to get bored. Attentions will stray and attraction often fades, as many people can attest. Clearly the drudgery of married life isn't a recipe for long term passion, much less satisfaction.
Sharing an absolutely exclusive bond with one partner is an appealing idea, but perhaps not a realistic one. Open relationships where you're emotionally committed to your primary partner but free to sleep with other people on terms you and your partner have agreed to beforehand may turn out to be a healthier and more enduring variation on traditional monogamy.
Based on what? Personal experience? Why not look to the statistics instead?
ElbowRocket
Member
It all comes down to respect. If you respect and love your partner enough you can stay with them. If there isn't enough respect then you can still love them but the lust is much stronger.
ThisWreckage
Banned
I place zero faith in people. I credit that mindset with allowing me to survive.
Yep.
* reads newspaper*
We will see how society goes.
You can not let people stomp on you , and place faith in people or trust them.
Those things aren't exclusive.
I'm pretty sure that's not something made up, but explained through evolution pretty well actually. Nobody's just throwing around "biological".
This study simply says women are less interested in monogamy, but there's no way to prove guy's monogamy here since it says "women stop having sex, where as guys are comfortable to continue having sex with the same woman long after she gets bored", but with absolutely no evidence the guy isn't out there finding whatever side action he can. Which would therefore make him, non-monogamous. So study seems very subjective.
Additional anecdote, I was working with 3 older women (50s) in an office, as their assistant years ago. One of them was mentioning never having seen a guy ask for a breakup or divorce without having another woman involved. Never because of simple "indifferences". I thought that was interesting, especially with the other two agreeing with her. I think men have a very hard time giving up sex once it's been given to them for any lengthy period of time. Which I can see studies confusing for monogamy.
Byakuya769
Member
You have statistics for your claim besides divorce rates?
Dem fighting words. But yeah, generally speaking, science that contradicts my beliefs and assumptions or that goes against what the majority of people would like to believe tends to be pseudo-science, or evil science, or nazi super science or something along these lines, yep.
Shut up ! :'(
Er no. It's unlike a lot of the empirical sciences. My issue with the area is the difficulty in testing. But for some people it goes beyond that. It seems to support whatever prevailing thought, the expert would like to support, using evidence up to a point.
How would I argue that women and men today react differently to a society where you don't have to be married to have sex, than in a society where it is the norm such as a century ago? How can I do this when evolutionary psychology purports to go back further then this?
captainnapalm
Member
Makes sense. Men will just keep having sex because it's sex. They're probably not that attracted to their partners anymore either, but hey, it's still sex. Better than having to go out and cheat, which is a lot of risky work. Women on the other hand, need more stimulation and excitement to stay motivated and keep having sex. But they'll mostly just choose near celibacy rather than cheating.
On the whole, married men still cheat more than women, I think. In fact, a lot of male cheating cases could actually be caused by the women losing passion or interest.
On the whole, married men still cheat more than women, I think. In fact, a lot of male cheating cases could actually be caused by the women losing passion or interest.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
And therein lies the problem. We don't stop adapting. Humans are not some creature that has reached its peak a few thousand years ago biologically, psychologically and socially.
Evolutionary psychology is mostly speculative.
cyclonekruse
Member
I don't think any evolutionary psychologist would say that we've stopped adapting. But it's highly doubtful that we don't have some vestiges in our brain from years long past. Goosebumps, as an easy example, hearken back to the days when we were covered with more hair. And they are partially influenced by emotion (i.e. psychology). So we have a psychological/physiological phenomenon that is most definitely a holdover from our evolutionary past (probably even before our "human" past).
The trick is to find out what has evolved and what hasn't (yet).
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
If it was good enough for mom and dad and grandma and grandad, it's good enough for you.
First you start with monogamy, then when you start to get near the 20 years married mark (like I am) it's all about nonogamy, amirite fellas? Okay okay I kid 'cuz I love.
Thing is she and I have both wanted, and will want, other people. And it sure ain't like it was when we were younger, for either of us, no matter how hard we try. There are always all kinds of reasons to give up.
But there's something kind of noble and neat about you both kind of passing up on getting your rocks off on the cheap thrill of a new partner, in favor of exploring this whole lifelong-commitment thing.
I will admit that, without the religious background of my parents and grandparents, its been kind of harder to contextual the spiritual benefits of a lifelong marriage--but they are there, vaguely sensed and ill-defined, but pursued by my wife and myself nonetheless.
Deified Data
Banned
As evidenced by the post you quoted, this doesn't go against my preconceived assumptions about the world at all. Doesn't make it any more legitimate in my view.
Many women I know in real life certain act that way.
Goro Majima
Kitty Genovese Member
Yeah I'd agree with this. It's likely that a lot of husbands stop trying after several years of marriage. Lots of wives feel unappreciated and uncared for so that affects the bedroom. I don't think that necessarily leads to infidelity. If anything this situation may end up pushing the husband to cheat just as much as the wife.
FreeMufasa
Junior Member
Depends on the situation. Some times women sometimes men.
Women cheat on their husband because they have little dicks 70% of the time. Fact
Women cheat on their husband because they have little dicks 70% of the time. Fact
I suppose the criticism isn't to rid us of the field, by not calling it an actual science, but to undermine the proliferation of contradictory theories that hark back to an earlier untestable era. Well difficult to test at least.
Goosebumps is an interesting example. Fight or flight is another. Both are physiological responses to a certain extent, both measurable, and observable, though in the latter one, one does have a choice, and you could make evolutionary based reasons that are plausible for fight or flight.
Thats the second time i see you mention this. I thought you were joking.
weren't you that virgin gaf dude
dinazimmerman
Incurious Bastard
Biased and misleading articles. I'll focus on the NYT article (the Slate one adds no substance and is even less balanced).
First, it says that:
In fact, the main, substantive study they cite in support of the claim that "it is women much more than men who don’t feel heat for their steady partners" actually offers an EP explanation for the results and rejects explanations from "social constructivism or from mainstream psychology!" Here's the abstract:
I'm shocked that journalists misconstrue the very studies that they cite! Shocked!
First, it says that:
This is a huge over-simplification of the EP view.
In fact, the main, substantive study they cite in support of the claim that "it is women much more than men who don’t feel heat for their steady partners" actually offers an EP explanation for the results and rejects explanations from "social constructivism or from mainstream psychology!" Here's the abstract:
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12110-006-1010-2
I'm shocked that journalists misconstrue the very studies that they cite! Shocked!
Finaika
Member
Well said. They never failed me.
I'm ashamed that I get this.
ColonelColon
Member
Many marriages and relationships don't work because people don't know what they want. If you want one of those open swinger relationships that's great but the monogomous relationships will always be there.
The main problem is people get into the marriage idea way too quickly when they aren't ready. Marriage lost it's meaning a long time ago and it's a damn shame.
The main problem is people get into the marriage idea way too quickly when they aren't ready. Marriage lost it's meaning a long time ago and it's a damn shame.
Don't be! The best of us do ;D
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
if by conventional you mean out of touch to the point of being superstition, then I agree.
How is that different from any other social science? you'd think that actually trying to ground a theory in what precious little we do know with a high degree of certainty would be a generally favorable direction for attempted serious research. That doesn't mean the conclusions are always valid of course..
mind explaining it?
Which meaning? The one where women were practically property and were traded into marriage for money and/or property? The one where you could marry multiple people?
Sorry, but this "Oh noes marriage has lost its meaning" stuff doesn't much weight. We've had much shittier meanings for marriage over the year
You know what, I'm just gonna hang myself and be be done with this.
People enjoy sex and like having it with other people.
Love and lust, sexual desire... they're not finite things. Just because you like someone, it doesn't turn off a switch that prevents you from enjoying other people, nor should it.
I'll echo that I wish more people accepted open relationships as a good and healthy thing.
Love and lust, sexual desire... they're not finite things. Just because you like someone, it doesn't turn off a switch that prevents you from enjoying other people, nor should it.
I'll echo that I wish more people accepted open relationships as a good and healthy thing.
Masterphoenix
Neo Member
That is an incredibly true statement.
Yeah i would say my porn watching significantly decreases when i have a significant other. No need to fantasize when you have the genuine article.
CrudeDiatribe
Member
Has lesbian bed death been discussed on GAF? The problem of reduced libido in women in monogamous relationships is magnified in lesbian couples.
Completely agree. I think too many people operate within some sort of adversarial model of relationships (especially heterosexual couples).
Thanks for this, have only read a few pages but it's really interesting.
As I recall, it's four years total, with or without a kid. There are a bunch of couples that last much longer though, so of course it's not that simple.
Completely agree. I think too many people operate within some sort of adversarial model of relationships (especially heterosexual couples).
Thanks for this, have only read a few pages but it's really interesting.
As I recall, it's four years total, with or without a kid. There are a bunch of couples that last much longer though, so of course it's not that simple.
The marriage where you promise to be faithful to the other person. The problem with marriage is that people don't seem to realize that it's a journey that you commit to until one of you dies, it's not a one day thing and you just live together for the hell of it.
Both men and women get bored in relationships and marriages, it has nothing to do with " oh he/she just wants to have sex with other people, people like ****ing. " One person in a marriage gets either neglected sexually or emotionally or the other person just lets themselves go physically and mentally and the relationship doesn't have the same spark it had in the beginning.
That's why it's always best to not get married until you have been with the person for a long time to know them better than they do themselves. Marriage should be the last thing on people's minds when they are in love. I do believe that marriage between a couple is really only reserved for that small percentage of human beings, nearly everybody is not built for it. People treat it like a game to satisfy people around them and to avoid generalizations.
TheMan
Member
this wireframe walt is mesmerizing. where can i find other wireframe faces?
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
Damn, mashing that DP.
Open relationships seem like a rather knee-jerk answer to issues with monogamy. Instead of being down on monogamy, how about thinking of monogamy less as a life-long commitment and be more okay with the idea of relationships ending? We moan over our 50% divorce rate...but does divorce even need to be a bad thing?
Counter to what some have said that most people aren't cut out for monogamy, I feel most aren't cut out for open relationships. But that's just my perception.
Counter to what some have said that most people aren't cut out for monogamy, I feel most aren't cut out for open relationships. But that's just my perception.
CrudeDiatribe
Member
I think that's very important too.
What if it isn't both people that see the relationship as having run its course? I see that as requiring as much communication and having as much potential for disaster as anything else.
I don't think open relationships are knee-jerk; most seem to embark down that path with a great deal of thought.
Sorry, I meant the suggestion of (like, in this thread), not open relationships themselves.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
So many of you judging men as being simple and basic just because you're simple and basic.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Pretty much.
Example: Female seeks out "bad boys" for their genetic potential while dating nice guys for long-term commitment.
Oldest example in the book.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I absolutely agree.
I think open relationships can be fraught with jealousy issues and can be a rather weak foundation for a comitted relationship, depending in the individuals involved. When you don't expect the other person to always be there for you, and as part of the arrangement you yourself are encouraged to go out and find another, how committed will you tend to feel? How peaceful are your emotions about the other partner? Obviously some people can pull it off, and more power to em, but I suspect they are of an atypical personality type. So many people couldn't handle that stress. I wouldn't advocate open relationships for the masses.... Only the few.
And I rather like your acceptance that relationships end. I think serial monogamy is a more realistic habit of humanity, rather than lifelong commitment, or a kind of free love idealism that would tend to frazzle the nerves of so many people.
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