Support NeoGAF

[Holy Order Sol]

shinobi602
Banned
(Today, 04:13 AM)

Quote

lol

 

[Ridley327]

And here we go with the vicious cycle.

We'll see how Most Wanted does, but even that's a late port.

It seems like it's gonna be a long-ass time before development cycles reach a point where they can actually launch a game simultaneously on Wii U and other platforms. That might not start to happen until this fall.

Isn't it starting with Injustice and Resident Evil: Revelations?

 

[Opiate]

There's enough for CoD to sell decent.

If Nintendo sold primarly to the 16-35 male demographic which comprises something like 80% of CoD's buyers, I might agree.

But Nintendo systems don't. Nintendo is very open about their desire to sell systems to children, to women, to the elderly and not just young adult males. That means that 2M Wii Us sold will provide far fewer CoD sales than, say, 2M PS4s sold, as Sony's systems tend to skew significantly more towards that 16-35 male demographic.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

It's a tough rumour to debunk because it's so bloody believable.

That's what we're all thinking Western third party developers are thinking about Nintendo, right?

I see absolutely no reason to believe that western publishers care at all about damaging their relationship with Nintendo.

 

[Mully]

There's enough for CoD to sell decent.

Because it was the only new game that had a recognizable brand and wasn't being sold to the consumer as a cash in port at launch.

 

[Kai Dracon]

You know... I don't want to come across as defending the reasoning entirely, but aside from the fact that poor Wii U sales are a reality people should accept, I will say this:

For most of the Wii's lifespan, I did observe a heavy disinterest effect among actual Wii owners towards trying games. I've seen it so damn often, for years, that at this point I have to wonder if it isn't a real thing. You know all those cool Wii exclusives that were actually good games? Muramasa the Demon Blade, Little King's Story, Red Steel II, and lots more? I recommended those, even as rentals, to a lot of people who play "core" games that owned a Wii. Zero interest. They'd say they sounded cool, but couldn't be bothered to try them.

Why? Hell if I know. Some of these were people who complained Wii had no games. Then as if proving a stereotype true, Wii got a game, they couldn't care less. I think the more griped just for the sake of griping but were ultimately disinterested. Some would buy a big Nintendo release, but that was due to major hype.

In my experience malaise around a platform can be a real thing. If the platform seems unhealthy or uninteresting, good and interesting things on it look dull to the average person. Maybe it's just human nature. There's a reason why companies like MS spend a crapton of money and marketing trying to make their platform experience seem sexy and hot all the time.

I this case, based on that experience I honestly can't blame the Activision comments. BLOPS II on Wii U is great. (I did buy it.) It is a superb version of the game thanks to the offscreen + dual screen online co-op play, and of all the Wii launch ports, its technical problems were very exaggerated, basically irrelevant during actual play. It seems to have an online community that is consistent and not giving up on the game. Those people at least aren't a part of the problem.

Nintendo fans buy nintendo consoles to get away from Call of duty. I thought that was obvious.

In point of fact, there was always a good following for Call of Duty on Wii thanks to later versions being quite good + IR aiming control options.

 

[AniHawk]

i don't put all the blame on third party shoulders for how nintendo acted with the wii u (that's certainly all them), but activision did little to endear themselves to the wii fanbase with regular ports of their most popular series- one that actually did well on the console. they reap what they sow.

 

[Bullza2o]

It makes sense that Wii U sales are extremely lower. Almost everyone had already bought it for PS360, not many people have a Wii U so far, and NSMBU has more value.

I think I am part of the problem too though. I usually only buy first party games (mostly Nintendo, but some MS like Halo and Sony's Vita games), and the only third party games I recall buying are niche JRPGs like Persona 4 Golden and P3P.

I have played BLOPS 2 and all other COD games, thanks to my local library or Redbox, where I get all other third party blockbusters.

 

[mr_chun]

I might have bought it if it was cheaper or even on the eShop..

It's still full price on the other consoles at most retailers, why would it be cheaper on the WiiU?

 

[RedSwirl]

Nintendo's persistent problem -- across generations -- is a demographic problem.

Look at the games that make the big four publisher's bread and butter on consoles:

Madden
Fifa
Need for Speed
Battlefield
Call of Duty
Skylanders
Assassin's Creed
Just Dance
Grand Theft Auto
Red Dead Redemption

Outside of Skylanders and JustDance (Which, by the way, sold best on Wii), all of those games have a laserlike focus on the 16-35 male demographic. I'm not saying that Nintendo has no interest in that demographic; but they are also concerned with drawing in women, the elderly, and children.

As such, 100 million Nintendo consoles sold may only mean 30 million 16-35 year old gamers, while 100 million Playstations sold is probably closer to 70 million. That is the key, persistent problem for Nintendo. Their demographic focus is simply different than all four of the big publishers, who are much more aligned with the demographic Sony and Microsoft are after.

Now add to that general problem another problem specific to this generation; install base. Not only do Nintendo's systems generally sell less software focused on 16-35 year olds, but a low install base only exacerbates this problem for third parties.

Theoretically you could say that's a problem with publishers more than a problem with Nintendo, but that depends on perspective I guess. The flim industry is the only other one I can think of where all the big bucks are spent on the 16-35 male demographic, and to my understanding that's very much an American thing.

 

[RM8]

Some of us Nintendo fans are... well, gaming fans. And we have a PS3/360/PC, and of course aren't too thrilled about games we can play on those systems we have in the way we're thrilled about new games. Learn to read the market, huge-ass corporation.

 

[Opiate]

Theoretically you could say that's a problem with publishers more than a problem with Nintendo, but that depends on perspective I guess. The flim industry is the only other one I can think of where all the big bucks are spent on the 16-35 male demographic, and to my understanding that's very much an American thing.

Well, it's breaking out of that demo everywhere but consoles. iOS, Android, 3DS and even PC (thanks to F2P and Browser gaming) are much more egalitarian, appealing significantly more to women, children, and the elderly.

The laserlike focus on 16-35 year old males is majoratively a console thing, and even more specifically a PS3/360 thing. The four major publishers focus most of their software there because that's the market they grew up on and know how to support. As stated earlier, virtually all their big games (GTA, Madden, Fifa, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, etc.) are heavily focused on that demographic.

 

[Sandfox]

If Nintendo sold primarly to the 16-35 male demographic which comprises something like 80% of CoD's buyers, I might agree.

But Nintendo systems don't. Nintendo is very open about their desire to sell systems to children, to women, to the elderly and not just young adult males. That means that 2M Wii Us sold will provide far fewer CoD sales than, say, 2M PS4s sold, as Sony's systems tend to skew significantly more towards that 16-35 male demographic.

I don't really disagree with you. The other guy was arguing that CoD wasn't selling due to people not being interested in buying the Wii U and I was just saying that the people who own it aren't interested in buying CoD on the Wii U so there's more to the story than just people not buying the console.

 

[Oersted]

Does he have less credit than you?

Did this cause his ban?

People are taking this source seriously. You really should not, unless you are completely unskeptical or are already looking to kick the Wii U and use this as justification to do so.

You are right, sadly. Not in sake of Nintendo, but in sake of gaming overall. Its stagnating. We need more women in this industry, pronto.

 

[enigmaxtreme316]

This has nothing to do with Nintendo, this has to do with the fans of COD not wanting to accept that the Wii U version is the best and Activision not making that clear.

Also developers need to work with Nintendo to release their games at the right time so it doesn't mess with Nintendo's IPs. No other first party has the same amount of stellar first party titles

 

[Blades64]

Did this cause his ban?

I suppose it is.

 

[Mario]

Also developers need to work with Nintendo to release their games at the right time so it doesn't mess with Nintendo's IPs. No other first party has the same amount of stellar first party titles

Should the onus not be on Nintendo here, given they are the ones trying to make the platform more attractive for publishers and developers?

 

[CronoShot]

“The only reason publishers are still going to bring games to Wii U is because they don’t want to damage their relationship with Nintendo.”

 

[Jonnyboy117]

It's a great version of the game. However, considering it's not even available on the eShop (where Activision could make a much higher profit and cater to the Digital Deluxe crowd), I wonder whether the publisher really even cares how it sells. My guess is they ported it to establish the brand and will take a legitimate attempt with this year's game. The lack of a DLC plan is very, very telling.

 

[Opiate]

This has nothing to do with Nintendo, this has to do with the fans of COD not wanting to accept that the Wii U version is the best and Activision not making that clear.

Also developers need to work with Nintendo to release their games at the right time so it doesn't mess with Nintendo's IPs. No other first party has the same amount of stellar first party titles

As you are a junior, let me encourage not to make posts like this. The suggestion that the problem is players who refuse to accept just how awesome CoD Wii U is should make warning bells go off in your head. It's just a silly notion, something in your head should be saying, "Am I being objective here?" Again, I tell you this because you're a junior. This isn't a ban, it's a warning: this type of posting won't get you very far here on GAF. It's fine if you happen to personally be a fan of Nintendo's games, but try as hard as you can to avoid letting that color your industry analysis.

Second, generally platform holders are in charge of software scheduling, not the other way around. How can Activision know when everyone else is releasing their games on the Wii U? Nintendo would be in a much better position to schedule releases -- since they would know every game coming to their system from every publisher. The onus should be on Nintendo, if they want to pursue this strategy.

 

[qizah]

I bought Black Ops II on the Wii U and it's been a good port for the most part. I've put 200 hours into the game and don't really have many complaints, aside from players usually only playing Team Deathmatch instead of other modes.

I'm sure it hasn't sold as well as the Wii version did, but by the time Modern Warfare Reflex Edition was out the Wii already had an established userbase that it could sell to. The Wii U currently doesn't share that same fortune - and to be honest not a lot of people are going to buy a new platform for the new Call of Duty title. I got a Wii U for Nintendo titles and I bought Black Ops II on it because my Xbox Live Gold ran out and I wasn't planning on renewing my subscription.

 

[freddy]

This is slightly off topic but how would you even go finding this article? I can't find anything else he has written and his twitter is suspended. Where would something like this appear for the OP to see it?

 

[Tunavi]

Good. Nintendo is too good for Activision's money bag trash

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

People aren't buying Nintendo systems for third party games, but mostly Nintendo games. The sales of fairly to very well known franchises such as Tekken Tag 2, Ninja Gaiden 3:RE, Assassin's Creed 3, Mass Effect 3, Madden 13, NBA2K13 and other third party games make you wonder.

 

[Aquamarine]

This is slightly off topic but how would you even go finding this article? I can't find anything else he has written and his twitter is suspended. Where would something like this appear for the OP to see it?

It's most likely completely fake.

 

[Jeels]

I think the buy Nintendo hardware for Nintendo software mantra is very prevalent, even on GAF. Long term this is not the type of ecosystem you want on your platform. So ya, if Wii U fans are going to buy a game like NSMB for the third or fourth time over the multiple third party titles available at launch, I would feel soured too if I were Activision.

 

[Mully]

This has nothing to do with Nintendo, this has to do with the fans of COD not wanting to accept that the Wii U version is the best and Activision not making that clear.

Also developers need to work with Nintendo to release their games at the right time so it doesn't mess with Nintendo's IPs. No other first party has the same amount of stellar first party titles

That's just silly. I'm sorry, but Nintendo is in no position to tell publishers when they can and can't release games. Especially Call of Duty, and especially at launch when games are necessary to sell a system.

A lot of the posters in this thread seem to be blaming Activision and other publisher's for the Wii-U's weak showing. It's Nintendo's fault. They had no idea who to sell the Wii U to.

Unlike the Wii, they barely marketed the system. There were no nursing home visits, no events for the core gamers, probably because they didn't even know what demographic the system was for. Sure, they're going to get the Nintendo fans and maybe a few kids, but beyond that, who are they selling this system to?

There's no direction. Publishers are trying their best to sell software on the system to keep a working relationship between each other. However, when there's no interest in the system, it's frustrating to continue to work with Nintendo and put games on the system. Particularly when the PS4 and the next Xbox are getting a lot more interest than the Wii-U ever had.

 

[Hiltz]

Nintendo has it rough no matter what when it comes third-party core game sales overall. However, it makes things more difficult for their new platform when its being released during an extended generation. Two platforms are still getting major third-party support, and it will likely stay that way into 2014. Of course, had Nintendo chosen to launch Wii U during holiday 2014, then they'd have other issues to content with. Nintendo, third-parties, and consumers have caused Wii U to be a suffer, but I blame Nintendo more than the others.

 

[Oersted]

It's most likely completely fake.

He didn´t questioned this. He asked how the OP found it. A good question if you ask me.

 

[freddy]

It's most likely completely fake.

Yes, but how did the OP find this fake thing? There's no other article to be found by this guy. Are you saying he wrote it himself after reading the DICE topic that was on GAF recently?? I guess when you have Wordpress articles then that's a possibility.

 

[qizah]

People aren't buying Nintendo systems for third party games, but mostly Nintendo games. The sales of fairly to very well known franchises such as Tekken Tag 2, Ninja Gaiden 3:RE, Assassin's Creed 3, Mass Effect 3, Madden 13, NBA2K13 and other third party games make you wonder.

I figure most people who got a Wii U already own a PS3/360/PC to play those games. Off-TV Play and the added GamePad features aren't nearly enough for the majority of players to buy a new console and switch over.

However there's probably a small amount of players, like me, who ended up getting Wii U version of titles like Assassin's Creed III and Black Ops 2. For me Off-TV play, the map being on the GamePad and free online were reason's why I got both games over the Xbox 360 version, but I have a hard time believing most people care.

 

[GetemMa]

Of course early adopters got the new Mario game with the new Nintendo system.

What did Activision think was going to happen? It isn't like I didn't get other 3rd party games. I got Assassins Creed 3, Darksiders 2, and ZombiU. I just didn't want BLOPs 2.

If it makes him feel any better I didn't get it on my 360 or my PC either.

 

[Aquamarine]

Yes, but how did the OP find this fake thing? There's no other article to be found by this guy. Are you saying he wrote it himself after reading the DICE topic that was on GAF recently?? I guess when you have Wordpress articles then that's a possibility.

That's what I'm assuming, since it seems like something way too esoteric to just stumble across on the internet. But I won't point fingers or make any accusations.

 

[Opiate]

People aren't buying Nintendo systems for third party games, but mostly Nintendo games. The sales of fairly to very well known franchises such as Tekken Tag 2, Ninja Gaiden 3:RE, Assassin's Creed 3, Mass Effect 3, Madden 13, NBA2K13 and other third party games make you wonder.

Then how would you explain the sales of games like Guitar Hero, Just Dance, Sonic games (basically all of them), Lego games (again, basically all of them), Zumba Fitness and Rayman, which all sold best on Wii?

Here's what I would propose: some types of third party games sell better on Nintendo systems. Games that are more family oriented, platformers, things which appeal to women and children and the elderly.

The problem, then, isn't that third party games don't sell on Nintendo systems, generally. The problem is that the vast majority of "well known franchises," as you put it, are focused on the 16-35 male demographic. Certainly all the ones you just listed are. Fifa is. Need for Speed is. Call of Duty is. Shooters, sports games, fighting games -- these are all going to focus very heavily on young adult males.

That is Nintendo's chief problem at selling third party software. The problem is that almost all of third parties focus on 16-35 male demo, which is what PS3 and 360 excel at particularly. If you make a game for any other demographic, it not only can but frequently does sell better on Wii or DS or 3DS or what have you. There is just a paucity of console developers who make those sorts of games, as virtually every developer working for the four big publishers are focusing pretty heavily on the 16-35 male demo.

 

[shouamabane]

I haven't bought an Activision game since Vigilante 8 on Dreamcast.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

It's most likely completely fake.

It a sad state of affairs when something like this doesn't scream fake right off the bat.

Both in regards to the Wii U's health and the maturity of some of the people who work in this industry.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

does anyone have any hot tipz about game nūz

 

[Effect]

Activision should think about putting it on the eShop for the long term being one of the missing from all the launch titles was a stupid move its not like it costs them anything to put it there

I don't understand why it isn't on the Wii U eShop. It's on PSN and the Xbox 360 marketplace. Same thing with Mass Effect 3. It should be on the eShop as well. Just about all the other launch games and post-launch day games are.

 

[Ydahs]

It's probably been mentioned, but didn't the Wii CoD games sell decently? It's more a case of userbase, launching the console late and launching this version after others.

Userbase is the biggest one I think, since many would rather play with their mates on the PS3 or 360.

 

[Blueblur1]

I don't understand why it isn't on the Wii U eShop. It's on PSN and the Xbox 360 marketplace. Same thing with Mass Effect 3. It should be on the eShop as well. Just about all the other launch games and post-launch day games are.

Maybe it's profit-sharing issue? I can't imagine there being any other hurdles besides one having to do with money.

 

[Baconsammy]

Should the onus not be on Nintendo here, given they are the ones trying to make the platform more attractive for publishers and developers?

They are the ones that promised more/better third party support. Not sure what a third party can expect though when the first barrier to them selling a lot of copies of their games hasn't been breached - actually having consoles in the hands of gamers. If Nintendo can't convince the public that their console is worth owning, third parties can look forward to bomb after bomb after bomb. Ubisoft got wise really early and delayed Rayman and ported it to 360/PC/PS3. Can't blame any third party for following suit.

 

[Alcibiades]

It's probably been mentioned, but didn't the Wii CoD games sell decently? It's more a case of userbase, launching the console late and launching this version after others.

Userbase is the biggest one I think, since many would rather play with their mates on the PS3 or 360.

Yup, even though it wouldn't do quite as well as on Sony and Microsoft systems, if Nintendo had 75 million Wii U's out there Black Ops 2 would be doing better now. The fact that most of the community is on Live will affect sales no matter how many non-Xbox systems have sold, but the primary issue right now is that the installed base for the Wii U is still very small.

The PS2 didn't have amazing software sales out of the gate and turned into a great success. I think it is somewhat premature to expect great sales on Wii U.

 

[freddy]

Should the onus not be on Nintendo here, given they are the ones trying to make the platform more attractive for publishers and developers?

Did you write this article?

People are taking this source seriously. You really should not, unless you are completely unskeptical or are already looking to kick the Wii U and use this as justification to do so.

I guess a lot of people think you, being a moderator, have endorsed it as legitimate by posting in the thread. I'm not saying they are right to do it and I could be wrong as well.

 

[qizah]

Then how would you explain the sales of games like Guitar Hero, Just Dance, Sonic games (basically all of them), Lego games (again, basically all of them), Zumba Fitness and Rayman, which all sold best on Wii?

Here's what I would propose: some types of third party games sell better on Nintendo systems. Games that are more family oriented, platformers, things which appeal to women and children and the elderly.

The problem, then, isn't that third party games don't sell on Nintendo systems, generally. The problem is that the vast majority of "well known franchises," as you put it, are focused on the 16-35 male demographic. Certainly all the ones you just listed are. Fifa is. Need for Speed is. Call of Duty is. Shooters, sports games, fighting games, these are all going to focus very heavily on young adult males.

That is Nintendo's chief problem at selling third party software. The problem is that almost all of third parties focus on 16-35 male demo, which is what PS3 and 360 excel at particularly. If you make a game for any other demographic, it not only can but frequently does sell better on Wii or DS or 3DS or what have you. There is just a paucity of console developers who make those sorts of games, as virtually every developer working for the four big publishers are focusing pretty heavily on the 16-35 male demo.

I don't see how Nintendo would be able to find a solution to that problem. Nintendo trying to appeal to the 16-35 age demographic probably wouldn't work. I'd love to see them attempt to make their own title that would appeal to that age demographic, but I really can't imagine them making a great title for that audience. Specifically, I'm talking in-house development. We've already seen Nintendo publish titles like for those demographics (ex. Bayonetta 2).

Furthermore, if Nintendo had made a console on par with the PS4/Nextbox, would that lead to more third party success? I don't think it would change. I think the Nintendo platform would have the least selling version of that title, where as like you said above, they'd still have the best selling version of the LEGO games, Guitar Hero, etc.

 

[Blood Diamonds]

Man, I forgot the Wii U existed for a while.
:c

 

[Le Singe]

You know all those cool Wii exclusives that were actually good games? Muramasa the Demon Blade, Little King's Story, Red Steel II, and lots more?

I picked up many exclusives. Many were good to great but they weren't free of problems. Little King's Story with no pointer control was silly. Red Steel 2 had great controls but not a very exciting overworld or story. Made as a Star Wars game and earlier in the Wii's life it would have sold amazing I think. I agree with the idea of a malaise developing around a platform. Look at the people trying to get Xenoblade now - where were they when it released? They were not paying attention to the Wii anymore or figured they'd get it in a bargain bin.

In point of fact, there was always a good following for Call of Duty on Wii thanks to later versions being quite good + IR aiming control options.

I find it amusing to read news about companies upset that they invested in the WiiU only to be spurned by fickle consumers. It's not like gamers buying Resident Evil 4, Tiger Woods or some of the Call of Duty games were ever really applauded or rewarded for their support.

 

[RibbedHero]

This is slightly off topic but how would you even go finding this article? I can't find anything else he has written and his twitter is suspended. Where would something like this appear for the OP to see it?

Wondered this too, glad someone brought it up. Seems to be a lot of effort to put in just to have a go at Nintendo, but I've learned not to doubt the dedication of people on the internet.

 

[VICI0US]

does anyone have any hot tipz about game nūz

i read a wordpress blog that says apple wants to take over video games so theyre making a console so sony is cancelling the ps4 and nintendo is cancelling the wii-u and valve and microsoft and sony and nintendo are going to partner up together and make one console together with 16gb ddr5 ram it's gonna have half life 3 uncharted 4 halo 6 and a pokemon MMO (also sega is supporting it with shenmue 3) and it's gonna stream games from the cloud to your dreamcast VMUs

 

[xandaca]

Whether or not the quote is authentic, I find it hard to believe people are still wheeling out the line that this sort of situation (extremely poor third party software sales on Wii U) is the fault of everybody except Nintendo. On the Wii, there were all sorts of mitigating circumstances for the sales of the games being cited as failures (many were niche or downports, etc)*, but in this case, in my eyes Nintendo have to take the ultimate responsibility. It was their job to get the console into people's hands and build momentum, and beyond the predictably decent - but not exceptional - sales in the opening month or two, they've utterly failed to do that.

In the case of COD, Activision (like Ubisoft, who also had solid support at launch) had a very respectable port of their top game available at the console's launch (they couldn't have released it on the same day even if they wanted to) with many unique features and the missing DLC only recently becoming an issue. Some will argue that they should have promoted the Wii U version of the game rather than focusing exclusively on the 360/PS3 versions, but equally so, Nintendo could easily have used this game, and many other third party games, as part of a marketing campaign to show off their console's unique features and encourage early birds to pick up games beyond the predictable Mario/Nintendoland remit. Instead, they barely marketed the console at all and left third party games to fend for themselves. Since the Wii U clearly isn't anywhere near as appealing to new gamers as the Wii was, Nintendo won't be able to rely on first party software alone to keep their system alive. If they wanted better third party support, frankly they should have offered some support of their own so the people likely to buy those games were both aware they existed and what the Wii U versions could offer that no other console could.

And before someone labels me a hater or God knows what, I've never owned a console not made by Nintendo and generally like the Wii U just fine. That doesn't mean Nintendo haven't made a ton of blunders in landing the console in the difficult situation it now, unnecessarily, finds itself in.

Plus, if you want to know what really bad third party support looks like, buy an EA game. FIFA 13 hasn't even had its roster updated following the last transfer window (which ended at the start of last month) yet and the game itself is a port of the 2012 edition.

*Of course, there is more than a grain of truth in what Kaijima said about people just not wanting the play the many outstanding third-party games on the Wii, but it's also true those games were never likely to sell in huge numbers to begin with. Case in point, many of the games up-ported from the Wii to the HD consoles did noticeably worse in sales than on the original platform.

 

[artist]

Mind boggling numbers, so bad.