Yeah. To be fair, Blizzard has always been a bit deceptive about their sub number. 50-60% of it are Asian subs that pay a tiny fraction of what NA/EU subscribers pay; so they've probably got ~3 million NA/EU subs left.
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World of Warcraft has 7.6 million subscribers (down 100K)
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Yeah. To be fair, Blizzard has always been a bit deceptive about their sub number. 50-60% of it are Asian subs that pay a tiny fraction of what NA/EU subscribers pay; so they've probably got ~3 million NA/EU subs left.
Patch 5.4 most likely. Siege of Orgrimmar is a great raid and the Timeless isle is fun to mess around in (made it extremely easy to gear up alts without relying on 5000 dailies, etc)
Of course, SoO and Timeless Isle will get stale before too long, so the flood of subscriber losses will return if the next content patch/expansion is a long time away.
hellmonkey
Member
Im still active. Not sure if I will keep it after I get the ps4. I probably will since the wife likes to play too. And god dammit, Im still farming Ony for that fkn mount.
GalacticGravy
Member
I'll do what I always do with a new xpac. I'll come back a month before it releases (to "get ready" and level my alts to max, collect some coin, etc.) and play for 3 months. So one month old xpac, 2 months new. 2 months is enough for a casual player to see nearly everything that's not high tier raiding, and I never PvP so that's not a concern.
-MD-
Member
turnbuckle
Member
Didn't realize they were increasing hiring that much. Was there a mass purge of employees at some point and they're just filling holes? Or are they going to have a significantly larger staff now than ever before? Would be awesome if it's the latter.
bodyboarder
Member
Every time I see a wow thread I always tell myself I'm going to finally give it a go. I never do.
As others have said, very impressed at the sub numbers they still have after almost 9 years.
As others have said, very impressed at the sub numbers they still have after almost 9 years.
The fact that people keep saying MMOs need millions of subscribers blows my mind when XI alone was phenomenally successful as well as Everquest and iirc they both only capped out at 500k.
Millions of subs on the scale of WoW on a P2P MMO probably won't ever happen again, even for something Blizzard releases in the future. Pretty sure Activision-Blizzard knows this and so did Vivendi when they were trying to offload the company stocks a while back.
It is what it is though, WoW is just one of those massive profit whales, the question is simply how long will it go now. XI has been profitable for 10 years with a fraction of the subscriber base, so it's pretty safe to assume it's gonna be a long while yet. Hard to imagine where Blizzard would be today if they didn't create WoW.
Millions of subs on the scale of WoW on a P2P MMO probably won't ever happen again, even for something Blizzard releases in the future. Pretty sure Activision-Blizzard knows this and so did Vivendi when they were trying to offload the company stocks a while back.
It is what it is though, WoW is just one of those massive profit whales, the question is simply how long will it go now. XI has been profitable for 10 years with a fraction of the subscriber base, so it's pretty safe to assume it's gonna be a long while yet. Hard to imagine where Blizzard would be today if they didn't create WoW.
What wow needs next expansion:
1- original game & blood elf/draenor model revamp up to MOP levels
2- good content-naturally.
3- gear compression- by that i mean EVERTHING needs it's hp/dps/healing ability reduced, my wife- who does not raid- is pulling 100k dps.
fastest/easiest way would be to take all stats/gear and do a decimal adjustment say to 1/10th the current level-and nothign can go below 1 for a stat
bow does 3k dps base currently, that base is now 300
armor item has 5k ac...that is now 500 ac
etc down the line for our gear
mob hits for 50k currently, post "nerf" it hits for 5k
etc.
4- interesting looking armor
5- less gear adjustment
1- original game & blood elf/draenor model revamp up to MOP levels
2- good content-naturally.
3- gear compression- by that i mean EVERTHING needs it's hp/dps/healing ability reduced, my wife- who does not raid- is pulling 100k dps.
fastest/easiest way would be to take all stats/gear and do a decimal adjustment say to 1/10th the current level-and nothign can go below 1 for a stat
bow does 3k dps base currently, that base is now 300
armor item has 5k ac...that is now 500 ac
etc down the line for our gear
mob hits for 50k currently, post "nerf" it hits for 5k
etc.
4- interesting looking armor
5- less gear adjustment
Strangely, a lot of the people i played with did.
The #1 thing that led to people quitting - large gaps of time without new content. Soon after Activision got full control of Blizzard, we've been seeing more and more consumer-focused changes happening. RMAH gone, a renewed focus on content in WoW, smaller products like Hearthstone/DOTA, etc. Vivendi had been trying to drain them dry for years to make up for their losses elsewhere.
edit: For reference: Vivendi tries to get into the piggy bank in July -http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CD4QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mmorpg.com%2Fnewsroom.cfm%2FloadNews%2F28133&ei=y7t6Us6PDsGOrQeMn4DIAQ&usg=AFQjCNFuO-AYv2vyQhQ90PkXp7aoH7QlKA&sig2=Tu7uLUkJMZGySZ8DTU-cgQ&bvm=bv.56146854,d.bmk
Activision buys Vivendi out, finalized last month- http://www.tomshardware.com/news/activision-blizzard-vivendi-buyout,24651.html
Well, it ate 2 years of my life... then again, I regret nothing.
The next few months will be critical to maintaining this approximate number of players. They need to get the next expansion out in 4 or 5 months for a 6-7 month tier, unlike the last few expansions that have dragged out 9-10 months. Will be interesting to see how far along they are at Blizzcon!
IrgendwasmitRot
Member
Enjoyed so much, while hittin' on Illidan. Still impressive numbers after all that time.
Bananajama
Banned
Starcraft MMO?
The reason why WoW has so many subs is no mystery: it has an extremely competitive endgame in the form of dungeon raiding and PVP. People all over the world compete to see which guild will be the first to kill a boss, or which PVP team will win a tournament.
The only other pay to play MMO with such a significant endgame was Rift, which boasted almost 3 million subs at its peak. However, following a year without endgame updates, its sub numbers absolutely tanked and the game went free to play.
In contrast, WoW constantly updates, and that's why its subs are so (relatively) reliable. A new patch, raid dungeon, and expansion are always in the works at all times, and they (usually) don't take forever to come out.
Any MMO that copies WoW, has better graphics, and has the same or better quantity and quality of WoW's endgame raids will instantly kill WoW and take all of its subs--but it hasn't happened yet. No other MMO has even come close, and most don't even try. Rift was the only game that tried to copy the formula, and it worked for a time, but their dev team was not big enough to compete with the quantity of content that Blizz can create.
There are a lot of people out there who constantly accuse MMOs of copying the WoW formula, but this just isn't the case. If MMOs were to copy WoW, they would be infinitely more successful than they currently are. To date, we still have MMOs coming out--such as SWTOR and FF14--that can't even get ability responsiveness correct. That is not copying WoW.
Only going to get better for wow in that regard since they just increased their staff by 40%.
Damn... I got into both the SC2 and D3 betas, which I never even downloaded, yet I want to get into Hearthstone BADLY and haven't gotten an e-mail
Lordwindowlicker
Member
Blizzard is done for, confirmed.
ShinMaruku
Member
Keep in mind it's only 3-4 million who pay the $15 a month the rest pay MUCH less.
unknownstranger
Member
A lot of people (including a few friends of mine) came back for 5.4. I think there's gonna be a huge drop (around 500k) next quarter now that the raid content is over and the next expansion is at least 6 months away.
Yeah. Its one of the reasons Yoshida insists that Final Fantasy XIV will remain P2P, its a game made with SE money whose goal is to have stable income over many years (FFXI style success). Games like SWTOR were built using investor dollars, they were promised WOW-level success and they aren't willing to wait many years to see positive returns.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Only 100k less subs? I'm actually surprised, then again the final content patch and the imminent reveal of the next expansion is what are holding people to the game.
Q4 will be a tough one for WoW though.
Q4 will be a tough one for WoW though.
KernelPanic
Member
No way you can adapt the interface to a controller.
unknownstranger
Member
1. Blood elf and Draenei are a long ways away as Blizz still hasn't even confirmed if new Human/Orc models will make the next expansion. The only other race Blizz has commented on that I remember is Dwarves, so I doubt they'll touch the other original races.
2. Leveling content in Mists (outside of Panderan starting area) was the best since Burning Crusade imo, so the content should still be good, although dungeons and 5.0 raids were mostly a disappointment.
3. Blizz has confirmed this and has been testing internally.
4. Completely based on opinions but I thought gear in Mists looked decent.
5. Blizz has commented that they might change reforging some as some people don't like doing it until they reach the exact stats they need.
No doubt, there are people chasing the bus in very odd fashions. The problem with most of those MMOs is trying to build the community overnight rather than what WoW and most of those other older MMOs did. WoW had huge numbers at launch, but as with other successful MMOs, the community simply grows with the proper care and attention. Expecting to grow a monolithic MMO overnight is silly as all hell. Personally playing XIV at the moment and it's much different beast than WoW. For something built in two years, it's impressive, but obviously bare given that short timeframe. The kind of attention they give to fans though is something that has impressed me like early WoW did.
That feels like a solid way to garner your community's trust. Over time, not like SWTOR who threw money at a project and expected it to explode. MMOs these days are all over the board though, so who's to say what we'll all be playing a year from now...
Ill respond to the first bit as i have experience in the matter.
Ive been in top 10 us/world 25m raiding since mid BC.
Most of (bar about 4) the people i played with since then will never look at this game again. Since that time I've been in 5 guilds (most mergers) ... Thats quite a lot of good players that no longer play. In my time playing ( i have since quit as of march this year, so end of t14 beginning of ToT) the top spot has always been contested by about 3 guilds at a time that could be considered a threat. The rest never really gave it what it took, us included. The demand was ridiculous and as the years went on, the players that were capable/willing to put up with grind simply stopped playing the game entirely. Top guilds fell one by one, mergers left and right. We now have 2 guilds that are only a threat to eachother in terms of the top spot. The raiding scene in particular ( i wont touch on anything else as thats were most of my experience and knowledge comes from) is beyond dwindling and is on its last leg in terms of competition. People simply don't want to deal with it anymore. When i quit the game blizzard had implemented so many different pre raid prep requirements ( for top guilds they are requirements) that it just turned into a 100% time grind. Something 99.9% of the top raiding community seemed to just mot have anymore. Recruiting became a dead set nightmare.
People want out of this game, thats been apparent to me since mid firelands progression. Nobody wanted to deal with any of it anymore.
Im speaking for my end of the raiding scene specifically.
The grind has officially become not worth it for most of the raiding community, and it shows so well. What this game needs is another game by the creators who know their user base and the genre best , rethink their logistics in terms of time commitment and watch their user base flock back simply because of the name blizzard and new game.
I wont touch on the other aspects of the game, as my experiences in them were brief.
Thats my opinion of course... But i have had this conversation many time in terms of saving top raiding over the years, and everyone who i have played with has a different opinion.
(Typed this on mobile, sorry for grammar and spelling, if someone doesn't understand something please quote and i will respond)
Brofist
Member
I think you may be the first to point that out.
Nope.
terrisus
Member
Care to clue those of us less aware in?
I might actually give it a shot if it wasn't so much.
Make keyboard and mouse mandatory.
You're still opening it up to a wider userbase.
World of Warcraft as a revenue generator is simply stunning. The subscriptions along with the vanity items, god damn. I would like to know how much profit it brings in the end. Must be a crazy number.
I still get nostalgia urges to get back messing around in Orgrimmar some times.
I still get nostalgia urges to get back messing around in Orgrimmar some times.
From the PDF:
"Internet Game room players" = Chinese players who aren't subscribers at all, but instead pay by the hour to play at internet cafes. I believe they charge 0.45 Yuan an hour (about 7 cents US). So while they may have 7.6 million subs by their somewhat slippery definition, those aren't all people paying $15 a month. You could pay as little as 7 cents and still count as a "subscriber", so don't let those numbers fool you into thinking WoW is still making a boatload of money. I mean, it is, but nowhere near what it used to.
Also, I would be surprised if more than 3 - 3.5 million of those subs are outside of the Asian pay-per-hour market.
terrisus
Member
Ah. That's no good, guess I'll continue waiting for EverQuest Next.
FFXIV's cross hotbar is a pretty elegant way of doing it.
As few as 12 and as many as 96 hotkeys at your fingertips on a controller. Not saying it is the best solution, nor that it would work in absolutely every instance of MMO games.... but it certainly is more effective than one would initially imagine. Played quite a few MMOs in my time and it's one of the few where I've felt 100% capable being on a controller. Or you know... we're entering next gen... just hook up a KB/M setup.
Yeah but it has a good 4+ million more active, playing users over your next most popular MMO. No other game out there is going to have a 7+ mill active player base after 9 years on the market. None.
Not many western MMOs are active in China, as everything (as in, everything) has to be approved by the government and substantial changes are often required. For example, anything slightly gory (visible organs, bones, etc) has to be changed, and since the undead are pretty popular in most MMOs, that's a lot of changes. There's also an insanely strong games industry in China itself, one that's positively scary compared to western MMOs when it comes to stuff like positive reinforcement, grinding, and unabashedly separating players from their money.
As a result, most MMOs don't break into that ultra-competitive market at all, which means they won't inflate their numbers by 4-5 million either. So you're right, but it has nothing to do with quality and everything to do with tapping that market.