5 or 10 levels is just a number. I could be 100 levels, it really boils down to how long it takes to level and how much content there is. As far as I can tell, there's not twice as many zones, or quests, or leveling content, than Mists of Pandaria.
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5 or 10 levels is just a number. I could be 100 levels, it really boils down to how long it takes to level and how much content there is. As far as I can tell, there's not twice as many zones, or quests, or leveling content, than Mists of Pandaria.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
I bought WoW at launch, and I've purchased every expansion since at release, but I've only been playing sporadically for the past few years. I'll play for a few months, then unsub, then come back for a bit, repeat. I never even really completed all of the quests in MoP even though I loved the expansion, but honestly I play the game more like a single player RPG than anything else now. I don't bother with raids anymore, barely do dungeons, and haven't done a BG for like two years.
But that $15 per month is steep for what little I play. And now the new expansion is $50?
I can't justify that kind of money for WoW anymore, it's just not a good value for me. And I've got plenty of other games in my backlog to play that will keep me busy for a long time, games that were much more economical to buy and greater values for my money.
If they ever go F2P I'd almost certainly play very casually as I'd love to play WoW as a super casual player, but not for $50 every two years on top of $15 per month.
Yeah, I'm out.
So long WoW, I had fun, but it's time to break up for good I'm afraid. At least until you change your ways.
nephilimdj
Member
Price is crazy, surely guild wars 2 should exploit the hell out of it with advertising
RoninChaos
Member
I have a few friends who are casual that balked at the 50 dollar price tag. 40 was pretty acceptable to them. I really think this is a bad move, and if retail doesn't discount the game, blizzard should. Obviously this thread isn't the pulse of the average consumer, but if hardcore gamers are like "$50 bucks?! NOOOOOOOOOOOPE" then imagine what the public at large is going to do.
I think this is really a sign that blizzard is expecting their sub numbers to shrink and are trying to get what they can.
What bugs me about this, is that this is another mistake in a long line of mistakes. Blizzard should really know better. The content drought, fucking up D3, putting out cata and pushing out subscribers, and now a price increase while your numbers have finally leveled off?
C'mon. WTF are they thinking over there?
I think this is really a sign that blizzard is expecting their sub numbers to shrink and are trying to get what they can.
What bugs me about this, is that this is another mistake in a long line of mistakes. Blizzard should really know better. The content drought, fucking up D3, putting out cata and pushing out subscribers, and now a price increase while your numbers have finally leveled off?
C'mon. WTF are they thinking over there?
Can't believe people still say this each and every time a WoW topic is made...
Robin64
Member
Everyone has Wrath and Cataclysm now too, regardless of where you stopped before, for free. You only need to get MoP and, eventually, WoD.
£35? Blizzard is really taking the piss with expansions. D3:RoS is £33. I swear I remember paying £19.99 for retail TBC & Wrath on launch day. Take away the shop's cut and distribution, and Blizzard probably only saw £10 max. First-party digital marketplaces are always an excuse to rip off customers.
I haven't raided (or really played) since Wrath, but it's disappointing to read that yet again Blizzard are leaving a year long gap between last content patch and expansion release. I remember during TBC thinking the ~6months between Sunwell and Wrath was a long time, but it seems to have only gotten worse. They also seem to be using the same excuse of "we're going to do faster expansions" to explain the gap, something they've said for three expansions yet it's never happened. Surely by now they'd realise their company culture doesn't allow for faster expansions and instead space content appropriately and be honest with subscribers.
I haven't raided (or really played) since Wrath, but it's disappointing to read that yet again Blizzard are leaving a year long gap between last content patch and expansion release. I remember during TBC thinking the ~6months between Sunwell and Wrath was a long time, but it seems to have only gotten worse. They also seem to be using the same excuse of "we're going to do faster expansions" to explain the gap, something they've said for three expansions yet it's never happened. Surely by now they'd realise their company culture doesn't allow for faster expansions and instead space content appropriately and be honest with subscribers.
King Gilga
Member
$10 extra for an expansion with no new races or classes on top of a year with no new content is a pretty massive pisstake.
It's like blizzard wants to piss off their players.
It's like blizzard wants to piss off their players.
This is my new favorite word.
I'm at a stage of my WoW interest where I'm really only resubbing for new expansions but the price combined with their recent forays into microtransactions and no change with the subscription fee might just be the killer that sets me free once and for all.
The new additions haven't even looked that interesting. Really would have thought they'd be at a stage where they're just handing expansions out to try and maximise intake on subs and their store.
The new additions haven't even looked that interesting. Really would have thought they'd be at a stage where they're just handing expansions out to try and maximise intake on subs and their store.
Can't believe people still play Counter Strike 1.6, Starcraft, Diablo 2, Super Smash Bros Melee, Unreal Tournament 2004, Zelda ALTTP, Mario 64, etc...
Calm Killer
In all media, only true fans who consume every book, film, game, or pog collection deserve to know what's going on.
If you mean easier. They have dumbed the game down so much it is a joke now. Give me BC-WotLK WoW and it is perfect. It is not the best it has ever been for sure though.
You mean the same WotLK WoW that had ridiculously easy heroics and the joke that was Naxx and ToC?
Laieon
Member
I don't really understand this. As someone who didn't touch any raid content outside of LFR, the effects of the Alliance and Horde landing on Pandaria were still felt. We destroyed that giant dragon statue thing, our actions led to the Vale of Eternal Blossoms being essentially blown up, etc...
On top of that, for the first time the major story line directly leads into the next expansion, as opposed to something like Wrath to BC where it was pretty much "Oh yeah, by the way there's a dragon messing stuff up while you're up north" or Cata to Pandaria where it was pretty much "Oh yeah, by the way there's this new island we found...". I think the ramifications of Pandaria's story were felt more than ever before as it progressed.
Lets see those heroic raiding achievements. WoW's still pretty difficult, only 2% of the playerbase has downed Garrosh on Heroic afterall...
http://www.wowprogress.com/stats
RoninChaos
Member
We were about due for a pissing contest about how wow is dumbed down now. Ugh.
Calm Killer
In all media, only true fans who consume every book, film, game, or pog collection deserve to know what's going on.
Fair Point. Give me BC level difficulty. When CC mattered. No looking for raid BS.
KojiKnight
Member
Can't have a wow thread without one. Did I miss the "MMO X is going to kill WoW" post? If not than we can expect that sooner or later as well.
More like the exact opposite.
Calm Killer
In all media, only true fans who consume every book, film, game, or pog collection deserve to know what's going on.
Alright, back on point. With paying a monthly fee and adding an expansion every 2 years I think we have paid enough money to Blizzard for this game. The lack of enjoyment is part of the reason I brought up the dumbing down of the game, which is why i feel it isn't worth the price point anymore. $50 for an expansion is kinda crazy considering you will have to pay $15 a month to play it as well.
Also I have been trying to get my co workers into playing it a bit, so I have someone to play with again. Telling them well you need to buy wow $19.99 MOP $19.99 and pay a monthly sub and then also buy the new expansion $49.99 really kills the idea of even playing the game for them.
Also I have been trying to get my co workers into playing it a bit, so I have someone to play with again. Telling them well you need to buy wow $19.99 MOP $19.99 and pay a monthly sub and then also buy the new expansion $49.99 really kills the idea of even playing the game for them.
This is why I generally try to avoid WoW threads outside of the OT. Like clockwork, they always devolve into incessant complaining about how the game went down hill after TBC/WotLK/Cata/MoP by disgruntled ex-players; many of whom likely haven't even touched the game in years but still like to remind us all why they think it's terrible.
World of Warcraft is one of those games where people will really get on your case if they find out you like it, especially if they used to play it themselves.
Nydius
Member
Thematically, I enjoyed Pandaria. Not as much as I enjoyed the theme AND story arc behind Wrath but I have to give Blizzard credit for making up a relatively OK story since they were effectively making up all of the lore behind Pandaria and the Old Gods out of whole cloth.
When they announced Warlords, I was skeptical. It just doesn't sound very solid to me. It sounds like someone was sitting around in a board room somewhere saying, "Wouldn't it be cool if we could go back in time and get our players to see all the cool Orc warlords in Draenor whose story we only really grazed on in Burning Crusade?" The whole thing just seems contrived and lacking imagination.
Garrisons really don't appeal to me after dealing with the smaller farms of Pandaria, and I'm tired of hearing about model updates as if that's some kind of big content worthy of an expansion. It reminds me of all the hype about the changed world in Cataclysm that everyone got. It shouldn't have even been considered part of the expansion.
Between burnout (I've been playing since vanilla launch, minus a year and a half during Cataclysm), the yearlong period of Siege of Orgrimmar / Boring Isle, the lackluster content announcements about Warlords, the pay-for-leveling, and now the $50 price tag on the expansion, I'm pretty much done.
When they announced Warlords, I was skeptical. It just doesn't sound very solid to me. It sounds like someone was sitting around in a board room somewhere saying, "Wouldn't it be cool if we could go back in time and get our players to see all the cool Orc warlords in Draenor whose story we only really grazed on in Burning Crusade?" The whole thing just seems contrived and lacking imagination.
Garrisons really don't appeal to me after dealing with the smaller farms of Pandaria, and I'm tired of hearing about model updates as if that's some kind of big content worthy of an expansion. It reminds me of all the hype about the changed world in Cataclysm that everyone got. It shouldn't have even been considered part of the expansion.
Between burnout (I've been playing since vanilla launch, minus a year and a half during Cataclysm), the yearlong period of Siege of Orgrimmar / Boring Isle, the lackluster content announcements about Warlords, the pay-for-leveling, and now the $50 price tag on the expansion, I'm pretty much done.
RoninChaos
Member
What dumbing down is that? Because you don't have a string of 15 spells needed for a rotation now? Can you link your main? Since you think it's dumbed down and not challenging I'm assuming you've got SoO heroic on farm?
What are you talking about? BC normals? BC Heroics? BC Raiding? Or are you just one of the people who bitches about LFR cause all the cool kids are doing it?
ToyMachine228
Member
Cataclysm's story wasn't enthralling either. I said that the story hasn't really gone anywhere since Wrath in my opinion.
I can respect the opinion, but it's pretty much showing you never really saw when the story got going. Like, the stuff you're complaining about is actually in the game and there. You just didn't get to 90 to see it.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I've always liked the game, but I just think I'm done now. The new expansion seems like they went out of their way to not tackle the stuff people want (let's just fight the Burning Legion now) and doesn't add as much of the fun stuff as previous expansion - e.g. new classes or races to this. New art is nice, I guess, but its not as big of a deal as they're acting like since they aren't showing you the models in full armor where you can barely see them.
The other problem is that I feel like the raiding model is straight up outdated at this point. Its just a tired system that doesn't really change from dungeon to dungeon since 2/3 of bosses are recycled mechanics with different names.
The other problem is that I feel like the raiding model is straight up outdated at this point. Its just a tired system that doesn't really change from dungeon to dungeon since 2/3 of bosses are recycled mechanics with different names.
You mean where CC and not standing in fire mattered? Outside of the Sunwell, raiding was still a silly dance of bullshit CC for mobs then not standing in shit during bosses.
So many look at TBC with rose colored glasses and forget the continent was pretty uninspired, heroics were hard due to class requirements but raids were lolworthy.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Nope. I doubt Blizzard would ever do that either. I imagine they earn a lot of money from people (like myself) who usually buy and subscribe to the game for 1 month every time an expansion is released just to see the new class/races/areas.
Suzushiiro
Banned
Yeah, I'd personally would have preferred it if they had pushed out ToT in June and SoO in January or something, rather than a year of frequent updates followed by a year of fucking nothing.
I'm curious as to if they just keep going "no, really, THIS time we're going to take less than two years to launch the next expansion!" and don't realize that they still have a year left until the last tier is out or if pushing content out when it's ready works better for them than sitting on finished content in order to have more evenly-spaced patch releases.
Still though, at least the raid tier we're stuck with for a year isn't complete and total fucking garbage this time.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
It's easy to understand, a great game is a great game irregardless of when it was released. Sometimes gameplay is so good that outdated graphics don't really matter. It's why I still play Master of Magic, Master of Orion, Starfleet Command, Falcon 4.0, Longbow II, Dungeon Keeper, and others from time to time. They are great games without adequate modern equivalents to replace them.
WoW is a great game, sure it's 10 years old but it's (for the most part) even better than it was at launch. I totally see why people still play it.
That said, $50 expansions on top of $15/month is too steep for me. $40 per expansion was borderline for me but I've bought them all. At $50 I'm done. I'd rather put that money plus the monthly fee towards other things, WoW isn't worth that price anymore to me. Hopefully someday I can return to Azeroth for a decent value, but that's up to Blizzard.
RoninChaos
Member
I'm seeing similar opinions all over the place. I think blizzard fucked up with this one. This is the lightest expansion in terms of content and it's going to cost more. Bad move.
Perfect Cha0s
Member
According to what, exactly?
Robin64
Member
This is my biggest worry. Despite taking them just as long as Cataclysm, which had an entire world revamped as well as its new content, WoD has very little in the way of new stuff. I really don't get why they couldn't deliver on their promise of faster expansions starting with this one. It doesn't even have the introduction of something new like Pet Battles that had to work everywhere, it's just one continent to focus on.
I'm not agreeing with the opinion (haven't read enough about WoD due to lack of interest) but that is definitely the general sentiment I've seen too.
Because there isn't anything tangible Blizzard can market (e.g. new class, new race, re-making the world like Cata, etc), some people think it's just a redesigned previous expansion (TBC's Outland).
Aren't there also significantly fewer dungeons compared to previous expansions?
RoninChaos
Member
Are you serious? Have you read the features list? The big additions are garrisons, and new player models. No new race, no new class. Less dungeons. The last expansion like this was cata, and we got worgen and goblins out of it.
Nydius
Member
It'll be pretty much on-par with MoP but only 3 will be "leveling" dungeons between 90-100. There will be 3 more level 100 dungeons plus a level remake of UBRS. 7 total, but 4 of them are meaningless until level 100.
It's really hard to believe this is the same company that gave us Burning Crusade and the insane amount of dungeons in nearly every zone while leveling.
I agree we don't have enough solid gameplay information to determine how "light" or "heavy" on content the new expansion will be but the perception that it's light is driven mostly from the fact that all they talk about are goddamn Garrisons and new player models (the latter of which everyone will get regardless of whether or not they purchase the expansion [where does this flustercuck sound familiar?!]). They finally launched a blog but all they talk about are mechanics changes. We won't really get many solid glimpses of actual content until beta goes live.
Plus, the fact that they keep talking about turning the entire continent of Draenor into a "dynamic event" zone like Timeless Isle gives some people pause for concern.
Perfect Cha0s
Member
I'm not sure entirely, which is why I asked. The stat, loot, and dungeon/raid system changes seem to be the biggest overhauls the game has seen to its underlying structure since 3.0 (Wrath), or at least it's a sign of Blizzard finally tying together the various systems and ideas they've introduced in the past few years. If I'm not mistaken, the first raid tier will have something like 15 bosses, but they haven't said much regarding dungeons.
I can very much understand peoples' hesitations, though. There may be lots of changes, but they're still only changes, and not additions to the game. The $50 price tag is lame, but I think it's a bit unfair to frame it as Blizz being lazy yet wanting to charge more.
Robin64
Member
A very hastily thrown together list. I'm sure I've missed some things, and no doubt there are some things about WoD we might not know yet, but whatevs. 
Burning Crusade
Outland
New Races: Blood Elves and Draenei
15 Dungeons
5 Raids
1 Battleground
Arena
New Profession: Jewelcrafting
Wrath of the Lich King
Northrend
New Class: Death Knight
12 Dungeons
3 Raids
2 Battlegrounds
New Profession: Inscription
Cataclysm
Old World Revamp
New 85-90 Zones in Azeroth
New Races: Goblins and Worgen
9 Dungeons
4 Raids
2 Battlegrounds
New Profession: Archaeology
Guild Levelling
Mists of Pandaria
Pandaria
New Race: Pandaren
New Class: Monk
Scenarios
Pet Battles
Challenge Mode
8 Dungeons
3 Raids
2 Battlegrounds
Warlords of Draenor
Draenor
New Player Models
7 Dungeons
2 Raids
1 Battleground
Garrisons
Burning Crusade
Outland
New Races: Blood Elves and Draenei
15 Dungeons
5 Raids
1 Battleground
Arena
New Profession: Jewelcrafting
Wrath of the Lich King
Northrend
New Class: Death Knight
12 Dungeons
3 Raids
2 Battlegrounds
New Profession: Inscription
Cataclysm
Old World Revamp
New 85-90 Zones in Azeroth
New Races: Goblins and Worgen
9 Dungeons
4 Raids
2 Battlegrounds
New Profession: Archaeology
Guild Levelling
Mists of Pandaria
Pandaria
New Race: Pandaren
New Class: Monk
Scenarios
Pet Battles
Challenge Mode
8 Dungeons
3 Raids
2 Battlegrounds
Warlords of Draenor
Draenor
New Player Models
7 Dungeons
2 Raids
1 Battleground
Garrisons
Thanks. The 'dynamic event' sounds interesting, but then again, Timeless Isle is way after my time, so maybe that's out of a lack of current WoW experience.
I know everyone loves to hype up TBC, but for all its balance flaws and raid management headaches, it really was a fantastic expansion.
My favourite part of it was just how many options there were for raiding guilds. Not only were there multiple raids, but you could 'see' the next tier of raids before finishing the current. Attunement, while painful at times (SH runs...), gave gearing up such a greater sense of meaning while you waiting for your guild to be ready for SSC/TK. Yes, the first guilds who got into those instances experienced a complete buggy mess (double Vashj...), but knowing the next raids were already in the game (instead of waiting for patch day) - and being able to do 5man dungeons set in the same location - built a great sense of anticipation.
Yeah, when you list it out like that, it definitely raises an eyebrow (especially considering the price tag).A very hastily thrown together list. I'm sure I've missed some things, and no doubt there are some things about WoD we might not know yet, but whatevs.
I really hope Garrisons amount to something more than the sum of its parts. Reading the info from Blizzard, it looks like a very simplified city building RTS - something you'd find on tablets but without any multiplayer.
Maybe there's more to it, but it just seems like they've expanded on the phasing technology (which they've been doing since Wrath), without actually asking what place it has in an MMO. Will it just encourage more people to hide away in their own little phased area? Seems like a missed opportunity - why not have Guild Garrisons too? Let people work together and then challenge other guilds to break into their garrison? Make it like a reverse-tower defence game or a horde mode - hire NPCs (or capture mobs from instances) and use them to guard your garrison from invaders.
WoW, for all the years of great gaming, really does feel like a missed opportunity at times. With all the money it generates, you'd expect Blizzard to constantly be redefining what makes a great theme park MMO. If you think about it, all mini-games aside, the last gameplay 'pillar' they added was Arena back in TBC. Everything else seems to be a re-hash of existing gameplay elements.
This is still very annoying. I want the outpost building but not at $50. Even $40 was pushing it for me. If the negative reaction to the price is wide spread I hope they change their minds. They know how bad news can spread. They had to make major changes to Diablo 3 after all. Do they want to piss off the WoW fan base as well and risk lower sales on the expansion?
RoninChaos
Member
Where did I say that?
Perfect Cha0s
Member
I wasn't saying you did, but it seems to be a common sentiment.
$50 is fairly steep for the standard expansion price. Was honestly surprised.
However, I am kind of a nut when it comes to artwork and always spring for the physical collector's editions. I really wish Blizz would make some kind of hybrid physical collector's + digital preorder package so I can boost prior to the expansion release.
EDIT: As a note, so many of the BC dungeons were clones of each other. It's a little unfair to compare them to their modern dungeon philosophy. Especially with how much work goes into the art for the instances now compared to during BC.
However, I am kind of a nut when it comes to artwork and always spring for the physical collector's editions. I really wish Blizz would make some kind of hybrid physical collector's + digital preorder package so I can boost prior to the expansion release.
EDIT: As a note, so many of the BC dungeons were clones of each other. It's a little unfair to compare them to their modern dungeon philosophy. Especially with how much work goes into the art for the instances now compared to during BC.
brainzelda
Member
What I don't understand is why scenarios aren't interspersed throughout the leveling process. There like 20 scenarios in pandaria; all lvl 90. WTF? No one does that shit because of LFR. Spread it out from 90-100 as an alternative to dungeons and questing. My friends and I would fucking love this. This is so obvious to me that the fact that it's not a bullet point right at the top of the Draenor site blows my mind.
A very hastily thrown together list. I'm sure I've missed some things, and no doubt there are some things about WoD we might not know yet, but whatevs.
Burning Crusade
15 Dungeons
For what it's worth, the quality of each individual dungeon has skyrocketed since the days of BC stretching the same assets across three or four dungeons and flooding them with trash.
Wrath launching with 3/4 raids is kind of funny too.