Right and that belief has nothing to do with way you go on as if people should be laying down their lives for the country. Freedom has jack shit to do with that, no one is saying they shouldn't be allowed to have the choice.
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Would you die for your country?
- Thread starter BladeoftheImmortal
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Right and that belief has nothing to do with way you go on as if people should be laying down their lives for the country. Freedom has jack shit to do with that, no one is saying they shouldn't be allowed to have the choice.
Necromanti
Member
Fair enough.I'm talking more WW2 type wars. Proxy wars and crap like Iraq is not the same.
No, your just a selfish coward. Your willing to take all the freedoms your country gives you, but when it's time to pay that bill you would rather tuck tail and run.
Also your whole defect idea is a bad one. When the war is over, they are normally the first to get the swift hand of justice unless your some kind of assist to them.
You see, it is not countries giving freedom to people. It is people giving meaning to freedom in countries. When it is the opposite, freaky, inhumane, crazy, fear-based stuff happens. I could cite an example, but I think you know which country is first in line for this.
No, your just a selfish coward. Your willing to take all the freedoms your country gives you, but when it's time to pay that bill you would rather tuck tail and run.
'Life' is a bit of a high bill. Unreasonably so. Freedoms aren't worth life as that kind of defeats the purpose. If there's a bill they're not really freedoms. Freedoms are things that should be granted regardless of what you do to earn them. You're missing the concept of a freedom.
I'm talking more WW2 type wars. Proxy wars and crap like Iraq is not the same.
A war where we're fighting a more fascist country than the US is currently will be the day.
OttomanScribe
Member
If someone in a war-torn country in for an example Africa had the option to flee the country, to defect, to in some way not be dragged into a genocidal war - they would grab that opportunity. There is no shame to that, not a cowardly move, as your life has an immeasurable value to yourself.
I think that choice is rarely presented. War to defend the coherency of a community is often a necessary thing.
User Name Here
Member
Nope.
Bay Maximus
Banned
I had no idea cowardice was so widespread. I suppose I understand it, but it's still pretty shocking.
As for the OP: I would prefer not to, obviously, but I'd die for a war I believed in.
As for the OP: I would prefer not to, obviously, but I'd die for a war I believed in.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I haven't seen many responses that talk of "fear".I had no idea cowardice was so widespread. I suppose I understand it, but it's still pretty shocking.
.
I think some people just never swallowed the cult of nationhood that they were born into.
CornBurrito
Member
No, your just a selfish coward. Your willing to take all the freedoms your country gives you, but when it's time to pay that bill you would rather tuck tail and run.
I take it you aren't American?
I had no idea cowardice was so widespread. I suppose I understand it, but it's still pretty shocking.
Not everyone has the (potentially false) belief of an afterlife that allows them to be so carelessly suicidal.
Aww.
Anyone who says Yes is simply suicidal and disguising it as courage. See I can do it too.
Yep and I knew that was going to come up. That is almost the same line people use to tell people who don't vote.
I had no idea cowardice was so widespread. I suppose I understand it, but it's still pretty shocking.
As for the OP: I would prefer not to, obviously, but I'd die for a war I believed in.
Since when was not dying for what someone else thinks is a worth cause cowardice? I'd call it being reasonable.
CornBurrito
Member
Since when was not dying for what someone else thinks is a worth cause cowardice? I'd call it being reasonable.
No it definitely is cowardice. I have no problem admitting that I do not wish to die, and that I fear a war effort would significantly increase my chances of dying.
But I'd rather be alive and a coward, than dead and.... well I'm nothing after I'm dead. Oh boy, some people will remember me as super brave. Too bad I'll literally be incapable of giving a single fuck what they remember me as.
V
Vilix
Unconfirmed Member
Right and that belief has nothing to do with way you go on as if people should be laying down their lives for the country. Freedom has jack shit to do with that, no one is saying they shouldn't be allowed to have the choice.
Freedom has everything to do with choice.
Mammoth Jones
Member
No.
I Ain't Got No Quarrel With The VietCong...No VietCong Ever Called Me Nigger. - Muhammad Ali
Replace "The VietCong" with whatever theoretical adversary I'd be going to fight....
I Ain't Got No Quarrel With The VietCong...No VietCong Ever Called Me Nigger. - Muhammad Ali
Replace "The VietCong" with whatever theoretical adversary I'd be going to fight....
SquiddyCracker
Banned
I think that choice is rarely presented. War to defend the coherency of a community is often a necessary thing.
That's what I meant, it is pretty much always a matter of necessity.
We are slightly more privileged I'd like to think, in that defending our immediate and general community would rarely be a necessary thing.
It's no surprise so many would take advantage of that privilege, and I have no doubts that the people who lack this privilege would do the same if they ever had the chance.
OttomanScribe
Member
I wouldn't call not going to war on behalf of a country cowardice. My uncle walked into a draft office and burned his papers, got arrested and bashed on for a few months. They probably wouldn't have taken him anyway, but that certainly wasn't a cowardly act.
I do think however that the unconditional 'nos' are quite odd.
Even if one doesn't believe they would actually be able to fight to say, stop a genocide, surely one should wish they could.
I do think however that the unconditional 'nos' are quite odd.
Even if one doesn't believe they would actually be able to fight to say, stop a genocide, surely one should wish they could.
Mammoth Jones
Member
I'd be interested to know how many of these courageous people also believe in God. It's much easier to do something dangerous if you believe in an after life then if you don't.
I believe in God and I'm still not going. Fuck that. Not flying half way across the Earth to go murder brown people in a war we (I live in the US) will most likely start anyway. If we had a sensible foreign policy I'd be more inclined to lay it all on the line when shit hits the fan but I'm not going to run into the fan blades after the shit to help the guy that threw the shit in the first place...
Freedom has everything to do with choice.
Which is a non sequitur since you did not start off talking about choice, but making a link to taxes that I pointed out was nonsense.
No it definitely is cowardice. I have no problem admitting that I do not wish to die, and that I fear a war effort would significantly increase my chances of dying.
But I'd rather be alive and a coward, than dead and.... well I'm nothing after I'm dead. Oh boy, some people will remember me as super brave. Too bad I'll literally be incapable of giving a single fuck what they remember me as.
You can call what you do cowardice, I simply do not see enough of a compelling reason to jump up to defend my country. And I do not think that is cowardice.
No way. Countries are just lines drawn in the sand with a stick.
Family, friends and other things I care about, though? Yes.
Pretty much this.
not gonna kill people because some guy drew some lines on the sand. or some rich man while he sits in home safely with his rich family orders rest to put there life's on line, because he said so.
Yeah. Right.
V
Vilix
Unconfirmed Member
Which is a non sequitur since you did not start off talking about choice, but making a link to taxes that I pointed out was nonsense.
How is it nonsense to protect a country which wants its people to pay their fare share (taxes) for a good social economy, or even have the freedom to discuss the issue? You don't want war, but a lot of anti war people don't seem willing to defend their freedom to have a say in a democratic process. They leave it to someone else. They've got their lives It's a choice, but hypocritical. Some of them want a just social economy. They're just no willing to defend it.
How is it nonsense to protect a country which wants its people to pay their fare share (taxes) for a good social economy, or even have the freedom to discuss the issue?
You don't seem to be coming into this very honestly. Where did I say that was nonsense? I didn't. I said the link you're trying to create where you're expecting people to be willing to die for a country is nonsense. I did not say that people choosing to do so was nonsense. Don't try to misrepresent me.
You don't want war, but a lot of anti war people don't seem willing to defend their freedom to have a say in a democratic process. They leave it to someone else. They've got their lives It's a choice, but hypocritical. Some of them want a just social economy. They're just no willing to defend it.
Saying that something is hypocritical does not make it so. It certainly isn't hypocritical to want something from your country but not be willing to die for your country. You seem do be doing all sorts of acrobatics to avoid having to justify why someone should be willing to DIE. You're also coming up with some BS thing about a just social economy when you have no idea what the resulting economy would be after the war if we lose.
Hell yeah! Well in my case Sweden but yeah. Someone want sweden? Ok I can move.
But alien come messsing with our shit and I will go mental on their asses, if they have asses.
I'll fight for Sweden tho...they made metal better!! \m/
V
Vilix
Unconfirmed Member
You don't seem to be coming into this very honestly. Where did I say that was nonsense? I didn't. I said the link you're trying to create where you're expecting people to be willing to die for a country is nonsense. I did not say that people choosing to do so was nonsense. Don't try to misrepresent me.
Saying that something is hypocritical does not make it so. It certainly isn't hypocritical to want something from your country but not be willing to die for your country. You seem do be doing all sorts of acrobatics to avoid having to justify why someone should be willing to DIE. You're also coming up with some BS thing about a just social economy when you have no idea what the resulting economy would be after the war if we lose.
What's so hard to understand about defending something you believe in? I used a social economy as an example. I'll make this simple enough for you to understand. If you enjoy your way of life, the freedom to do whatever it is you choose, would you want to protect, or defend agaisnt it? If not then what's the point if you can't enjoy it?
Cowards, the lot of you. Some of you would even defect to the other side if you were losing?
That being said, if invaded at home, you better believe I'm going down fighting for the country that has given me so much opportunity and privileges that can hardly be matched.
I don't like war, but there comes a time where if you have to defend what you are and what you believe in, you fight for it. Wouldn't die to invade another country. USA.
That being said, if invaded at home, you better believe I'm going down fighting for the country that has given me so much opportunity and privileges that can hardly be matched.
I don't like war, but there comes a time where if you have to defend what you are and what you believe in, you fight for it. Wouldn't die to invade another country. USA.
Unknown One
Member
I would if it's a world war. For something petty nope. Why should I die for a country that is so bigoted. A big part of the country would say I'll go to hell without even knowing me.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Why the assumption that the invading country would result in less privileges?
Aren't theAmerican invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq considered to have given the natives freedom (whether that happened or not is another question)?
Aren't theAmerican invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq considered to have given the natives freedom (whether that happened or not is another question)?
Why is it so hard for people to imagine a war that is not only just, but also necessary?
WWII was only 70 years ago.
Entitlement generation.
I don't think that a peaceful nation will be swatting away invaders on a regular basis, and I think you'd have to be delusional to think that the primary use of most countries' militaries these days is self-defense.How is it nonsense to protect a country which wants its people to pay their fare share (taxes) for a good social economy, or even have the freedom to discuss the issue? You don't want war, but a lot of anti war people don't seem willing to defend their freedom to have a say in a democratic process. They leave it to someone else. They've got their lives It's a choice, but hypocritical. Some of them want a just social economy. They're just no willing to defend it.
Why the assumption that the invading country would result in less privileges?
Aren't theAmerican invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq considered to have given the natives freedom (whether that happened or not is another question)?
I'm inclined to believe that Iraqis and Afghans would have put up a bit more resistance if their way of life was being challenged by violence. It wasn't your typical invasion to conquer, which is more what I was talking about. Even if the invaders had better policies on how to improve my country, how would I know that? I'm not afraid of change, but more of the unknown. If a country were to actually surface on US soil ready to take over, the immediate reaction would be to shoot first, ask questions later.
CornBurrito
Member
Some of them want a just social economy. They're just no willing to defend it.
I wasn't aware that wanting something but not doing anything to get it was hypocritical.
Is that how the word is used? I thought it typically meant saying X but doing Y. Like if I said "everyone should be willing to die for their country" but hid from a draft.
What's so hard to understand about defending something you believe in? I used a social economy as an example. I'll make this simple enough for you to understand. If you enjoy your way of life, the freedom to do whatever it is you choose, would you want to protect, or defend agaisnt it? If not then what's the point if you can't enjoy it?
Simple. I enjoy my life the way it is, but I think I (and many other humans) have an outstanding capacity to adapt to massive cultural and societal shifts. I like things (somewhat) the way they are now, and am willing to go to a certain length to change or preserve them. However, I'm not willing to throw away my life. I'd rather adapt than die.
Entitlement generation.
Aren't you a fan of Ayn Rand's general philosophy, or am I confusing you for someone else?
Cowards, the lot of you. Some of you would even defect to the other side if you were losing?
Yeah, I'm afraid of dying. It is kind of a thing programmed in pretty much every single living species. Oh well. I refuse to feel bad about it.
Yeah, I'm afraid of dying. It is kind of a thing programmed in pretty much every single living species. Oh well. I refuse to feel bad about it.
It's called being a coward, no need to explain or justify it. You think others who are willing to give their life are fearless about it? No, they simply have enough courage to do so. Of course this is all pretty big talk for something hypothetical, so I'm not going to knock you for it. Talk is very cheap and if the day the US is ever invaded, some of us who are saying "YEAH WE'LL FIGHT" might very well get in a fetal position just as quick.
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