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[HyperionX]

You're not right but whatever. Get more people to agree with you and change the Constitution. Until then I think better laws that deal with reality NOW (ex: Guns are here, they're not going anywhere. The US isn't Australia and millions of us aren't going to merrily turn in our guns if ordered. But steps like safe storage, magazine size limits, and increased incarceration for violent gun crimes, ) and actually get policies that might actually make a difference. Basically don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

Maybe a few years ago I would have agreed with you on those point. But I realized that the opposition groups are extremely powerful and would stop most of those types of laws, so I'd be wasting my time. Furthermore, demanding slightly more stringent storage rules or harsher penalties are not exactly rallying cries that anyone would get excited about. Case in point, the assault weapons ban was pretty pointless in what it accomplished and was ultimately rolled back in the end. I came to conclusion that the only to change people's mind is go after the source: deny the concept of the right to bear arms.

Regarding slavery and Jim Crow...to be blunt the notion that you consider civilian firearm ownership to be of the same moral reprehensibility as Jim Crow and Slavery is really condescending to people of color.

In terms of harm to minorities groups its really not that far off. About 1.3 million Americans died of guns over the last century.

There were times we USED those guns to protect ourselves. Ironically during slavery many times Master's loyal slave would be permitting to possess a firearm to protect livestock/property while the freeman would be barred from ownership. Not to mentioned organized groups like Deacons for Defense that used their gun rights for self-preservation.

That's some random group that accomplished nothing in the end, and probably hurt their causes if anything.

And if you want to ban guns based on cruelty you should be focused on removing guns from government possession first and foremost. They have inflicted FAR more cruelty than civilian firearm ownership ever could.

I'm not saying no to this either. In fact, that's likely a major benefit of abandoning the concept of gun rights, so that very few people, civilian or government officials, are allowed to have them, making a much safer society overall.

 

[mkenyon]

You talked about how guns have harmed minority groups, then quote a statistic that is about the entire population with no breakdown on socio-economic or cultural background.

Wut.

 

[HyperionX]

You talked about how guns have harmed minority groups, then quote a statistic that is about the entire population with no breakdown on socio-economic or cultural background.

Wut.

Fine. It definitely hurts minorities groups.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

UK here; Yes,and i plan to own one as soon as i can both afford one and the License.
I go competition shooting with a friend and use her Shotgun, i enjoy it so much that i'd love my own
Protection wise, i would likely loose any gained license if i ever brandished one against a burglar, let alone a loaded one, although UK law on this i a little iffy, it depends on if the CPS want to prosecute you, there are famous cases of people using them and going to jail, and they themselves have proved to be focal points for changes in the law on being allowed to defend yourselves in your own home...i'm actually lost on where the law is right now in the UK, a lot of changes were made that mean you can use all reasonable force, but how that would relate to someone who had a gun license i do not know

 

[mkenyon]

1) I think it's important to distinguish between homicide and suicide in "Gun Deaths".

2) That's for a recent 10 year period, which was a time that also saw an overall decrease in gun deaths, with a more substantial decrease in gun homicide.

Sometimes, you just have to learn to say, "oh, yeah, that probably isn't a proper thing to do now that this person points it out", in regards to the Slavery/Jim Crow comparison.

It's okay to be mistaken. That doesn't mean your goal is any less virtuous or righteous. It just means a particular piece of analogy-as-propaganda is not quite accurate.

 

[ShadowKingpin]

These are my babies:

 

[Piggus]

These are my babies:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/zoom_lg/209001_01_lg.jpg[IMG]

[IMG]http://www.centerfiresystems.com/images/products/detail/AKAGUN0214D.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

I have a good ol' Romanian AK as well... just with more crap on it lol.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/BlQikov.jpg

 

[HyperionX]

1) I think it's important to distinguish between homicide and suicide in "Gun Deaths".

Not really. We know now that suicides are easily preventable by removing the means of suicide. Remove the gun, and gun deaths go down in both cases.

2) That's for a recent 10 year period, which was a time that also saw an overall decrease in gun deaths, with a more substantial decrease in gun homicide.

That's really because all crime went down by huge amounts over the same time period. Also, gun deaths in total have stayed the same since the late 90s.

Sometimes, you just have to learn to say, "oh, yeah, that probably isn't a proper thing to do now that this person points it out", in regards to the Slavery/Jim Crow comparison.

It's okay to be mistaken. That doesn't mean your goal is any less virtuous or righteous. It just means a particular piece of analogy-as-propaganda is not quite accurate.

Of course it's not a perfect analogy. I never claimed otherwise. But it's seriously not that far off in terms of its impact on minority groups. Maybe not just as bad but definitely in the same territory.

 

[The Albatross]

I would consider it if I were single and never planned on having kids.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

In terms of harm to minorities groups its really not that far off. About 1.3 million Americans died of guns over the last century.

How many Blacks died from the North Atlantic Slave trade and in the US in particular? Rough estimate?

How many during Jim Crow from unjust bullshit?

Hint: It's higher than 1.3 million. The comparison is really shitty and condescending.

Of course it's not a perfect analogy. I never claimed otherwise. But it's seriously not that far off in terms of its impact on minority groups. Maybe not just as bad but definitely in the same territory.

It's not that it's not perfect. It's that it's really bad. The impact is from educational and economical suppression that's been in place for centuries. Given no opportunities in those areas obviously there will be more crime and violence. Not to mention policies of enforcing shitty drug laws that often left young males in fatherless homes (dad got busted for minor drugs possession and is locked up - oh yeah Blacks get disproportionately longer jail terms)

You making it sound like our problems would just up and vanish if not for firearms. As if that was the problem from jump.

There are places in the US where ownership of guns is far higher but there isn't this problem.

 

[HyperionX]

How many Blacks died from the North Atlantic Slave trade and in the US in particular? Rough estimate?

How many during Jim Crow from unjust bullshit?

Hint: It's higher than 1.3 million. The comparison is really shitty and condescending.

A few million died due to the slave trade. So you got that one. Jim Crow? Not nearly close to 1.3 million.

So it's in-between those two, and in the ballpark of the former. So what's there to be upset about?

 

[SummitAve]

I would consider it if I were single and never planned on having kids.

Nothing wrong with compensating for loved ones with material goods. You can even keep pictures in your wallet like this guy:

These are my babies:

 

[Mammoth Jones]

A few million died due to the slave trade. So you got that one. Jim Crow? Not nearly close to 1.3 million.

So it's in-between those two, and in the ballpark of the former. So what's there to be upset about?

"A few". Really?

Holy shit... Anyways I wish I could find the number for deaths from Jim Crow and it's policies but no one gave a shit to really keep track.

I just think the analogy is really shitty and doesn't hold.

I do think a more universal gun policy will materialize in the states. It might not be what YOU or I would want but it's inevitable.

 

[m_shortpants]

These are my babies:

I have a good ol' Romanian AK as well... just with more crap on it lol.

My brother just got a Zastava AK. That thing is solid. The racking sound is beautiful.

 

[GaimeGuy]

So if you live in a place that keeps you safe, why would owning a gun for recreational use change that? Are you worried about someone breaking in and taking it? Are you worried about your own mental state? If you're worried about being shot by your own gun, then clearly you don't actually live in a place that keeps you safe.

I live in a place that keeps me safe and I own guns, though they stay locked up just in case. Unlike you, I have no reason to be afraid of them ending up in the wrong hands. So who lives in the safer society?

I am not infallible, nor are other people - momentary lapses in judgment occur every day. Sometimes they have consequences, other times they go un-noticed, or are rectified before their consequences come to surface.

Furthermore - If I ever were to have the misfortune of turning suicidal, I'd rather not have the tools to easily, quickly, and painlessly kill myself readily available, so that any passing or temporary suicidal tendencies do not result in a permanent mistake.

Finally - if I own a gun, and my apartment gets burglarized, I've just helped arm a street criminal, though through no negligence of my own. That's partially why the average street criminal has a gun in the US, but not in other first world countries.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

My brother just got a Zastava AK. That thing is solid. The racking sound is beautiful.

I just want to convert this thing. Screw NY.

But I love my little ak...

 

[mkenyon]

My brother just got a Zastava AK. That thing is solid. The racking sound is beautiful.

The Serbs know how to make quality AKs. Fully milled receiver too.

I have two of their handguns as well as the AK that I did have, but sold after the Obama scare for like a 500% profit.

A few million died due to the slave trade. So you got that one. Jim Crow? Not nearly close to 1.3 million.

So it's in-between those two, and in the ballpark of the former. So what's there to be upset about?

TBH, the best thing you could do to advance your agenda is to never speak on it.

 

[HyperionX]

"A few"

Holy shit.

You didn't bat an eyelid at the 1.3 million number, so you got nothing to stand on for your faux-shock here.

Anyways I wish I could find the number for deaths from Jim Crow and it's policies but now one gave a shit to really keep track.

I just think the analogy is really shitty a doesn't hold.

You've basically proved it isn't.

I do think a more universal gun policy will materialize in the states. It might not be what YOU or I would want but it's inevitable.

That would be huge if it actually happened. I'll take whatever I can get.

 

[LeeRoyBrown]

I'd love to own a gun, maybe one day my child will find it, kill themselves by accident or rampage a school.

Bah, what am I talking about, that never happens.

And besides, surely some other hero with a gun would stop them right?

 

[Piggus]

I am not infallible, nor are other people - momentary lapses in judgment occur every day. Sometimes they have consequences, other times they go un-noticed, or are rectified before their consequences come to surface.

Furthermore - If I ever were to have the misfortune of turning suicidal, I'd rather not have the tools to easily, quickly, and painlessly kill myself readily available, so that any passing or temporary suicidal tendencies do not result in a permanent mistake.

Finally - if I own a gun, and my apartment gets burglarized, I've just helped arm a street criminal, though through no negligence of my own. That's partially why the average street criminal has a gun in the US, but not in other first world countries.

I'm going to ask again. If you live in such a safe, protective place, why are you worried about a burglar breaking in? And would you keep a gun where a burglar could access it?

As for the suicide thing, that's fair enough but also a bit irrational if you're mentally sound as is. If someone is truly determined to kill themself, they'll find a way. With that said, I think there should be some kind of mental health evaluation in the US before someone can buy a gun.

I'd love to own a gun, maybe one day my child will find it, kill themselves by accident or rampage a school.

Bah, what am I talking about, that never happens.

And besides, surely some other hero with a gun would stop them right?

That would be entirely your fault you know.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

You didn't bat an eyelid at the 1.3 million number, so you got nothing to stand on for your faux-shock here.

Our entire conversation was regarding your claim that a analogy to Slavery and Jim Crow is valid since 1.3 million died. I don't doubt the number but I'm pointing out its extremely shitty to do considering how many more died during slavery/Jim Crow. Now it's on me for "not batting an eyelid"? Just recognize it's a pass poor analogy and you shouldn't use it. It doesn't help your argument. Makes it look more extreme and silly in fact.

Not outraged.

You've basically proved it isn't.

I proved people didn't care enough about the deaths of blacks back then to even fucking count. Just cause it may not have been counted doesn't mean it didn't happen.


But yeah, only a few million died during slavery... Keep fucking that chicken.

 

[m_shortpants]

I'd love to own a gun, maybe one day my child will find it, kill themselves by accident or rampage a school.

Bah, what am I talking about, that never happens.

And besides, surely some other hero with a gun would stop them right?

And that would be entirely your fault for
1 - not locking it in a safe
2 - having a trigger lock
3 - keeping ammo locked separately

Etc, etc. There could be a million more. If you were a responsible parent or gun owner there are tons of ways you could safeguard against that. Lock the safe. Lock the gun case. Put a trigger lock. Lock ammo somewhere else. And so on.

 

[HyperionX]

Our entire conversation was regarding your claim that a analogy to Slavery and Jim Crow is valid since 1.3 million died. I don't doubt the number but I'm pointing out its extremely shitty to do considering how many more died during slavery/Jim Crow. Now it's on me for "not batting an eyelid"? Just recognize it's a pass poor analogy and you shouldn't use it. It doesn't help your argument. Makes it look more extreme and silly in fact.

Not outraged.

If the deaths are comparable then you should probably accept it as a valid comparison. That was the whole point of bring the numbers up in the first place. The only reason people don't like it being brought up is because we equal slavery or Jim Crow as unequivocally wrong and we don't do that for guns. It's simply something we aren't ready to accept rather than it being a bad analogy.

I proved people didn't care enough about the deaths of blacks back then to even fucking count. Just cause it may not have been counted doesn't mean it didn't happen.

They clearly cared enough to estimate the death toll of slavery, so that's probably not the case here.

But yeah, only a few million died during slavery... Keep fucking that chicken.

Yeah, and that's why it was a fucking bad thing. Just like having too many guns, which is in the same ballpark of being bad. Hence the analogy. So get over yourself on this one.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I'd love to own a gun, maybe one day my child will find it, kill themselves by accident or rampage a school.

Bah, what am I talking about, that never happens.

It happens. But it typically happens with shitty parents that don't lock their guns up, don't follow up with what their kids are doing in their home, and don't have a relationship where the kid feels they can even talk to their parent about what their feeling.

And besides, surely some other hero with a gun would stop them right?

Sarcastic nonsense like this adds nothing to the discussion. But I think being proactive about gun storage, ammo storage, and seeing to a child's developmental needs can mitigate much of that risk. Considering most gun owners in the US don't have this problem it reinforces that point.

And why the fuck don't we lock up parent when their kids obtain their guns and shoot shit up? If that happened a few times maybe more people would take gun storage seriously instead of a shotgun under the couch, a pistol under the bed...etc.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

If the deaths are comparable then you should probably accept it as a valid comparison. That was the whole point of bring the numbers up in the first place. The only reason people don't like it being brought up is because we equal slavery or Jim Crow as unequivocally wrong and we don't do that for guns. It's simply something we aren't ready to accept rather than it being a bad analogy.

That's part of what makes it a shitty analogy. The other part would be where FAR more Blacks were murdered than people that died from gunshots (just gunshots. Not murder specifically.) How many people died during Slavery? Still didn't answer that one.

They clearly cared enough to estimate the death toll of slavery, so that's probably not the case here..

More confortable to analyze ancient history. Not so much when it comes to policies that still exist to this day. (Like gun control for Blacks)

Yeah, and that's why it was a fucking bad thing. Just like having too many guns, which is in the same ballpark of being bad. Hence the analogy. So get over yourself on this one.

But it's no where near "bad" which is what makes your analogy absolutely ridiculous and makes you look like a kook when you articulate your position with such an analogy.

My 72 year old father owning a gun because his days of going MMA with burglars is over is in the "same ballpark of being bad" as owning other human beings against their will, stripping them from their families, tying them to ships, throwing them overboard chained together in the middle of the ocean to avoid getting caught smuggling them, impregnanting them against their will to make more marketable light skinned slaves, forbidding them to learn to read, hanging them for minor infractions, selling children born from slavery and breaking up families. Am I reading you correctly?

And this isn't outrage. It's astonishment, lmao. That you could be so zealous in your worldview that you would think this is a good analogy.

Protip: It's really not. Stahp.

 

[DarknessTear]

When I get my own place I probably will get a shotgun for protection.

 

[HyperionX]

That's part of what makes it a shitty analogy. The other part would be where FAR more Blacks were murdered than people that died from gunshots (just gunshots. Not murder specifically.) How many people died during Slavery? Still didn't answer that one.

Don't know what you're trying to say here.

More confortable to analyze ancient history. Not so much when it comes to policies that still exist to this day. (Like gun control for Blacks)

We have good statistics for modern day stuff. This also unlikely to be the case.

But it's no where near "bad" which is what makes your analogy absolutely ridiculous and makes you look like a kook when you articulate your position with such an analogy.

You're a gun kook. You're in no position of accusing others of that.

My 72 year old father owning a gun because his days of going MMA with burglars is over is in the "same ballpark of being bad" as owning other human beings against their will, stripping them from their families, tying them to ships, throwing them overboard chained together in the middle of the ocean to avoid getting caught smuggling them, impregnanting them against their will to make more marketable light skinned slaves, forbidding them to learn to read, hanging them for minor infractions, selling children born from slavery and breaking up families. Am I reading you correctly?

And this isn't outrage. It's astonishment, lmao. That you could be so zealous in your worldview that you would think this is a good analogy.

Protip: It's really not. Stahp.

I've long since established that guns for self-defense is too rare to matter (greatly outnumbered by homicides and suicides). Saying your father needs one is silly and almost no chance of being necessary. Furthermore, gun shot wounds are quite gruesome and the survivors are maimed for life (most people survive gun shot wounds, so the number of maimings greatly outnumber deaths). So this is a quite a large source of suffering. As bad as slavery? No, of course it isn't, but not really that far off in terms of deaths and maimings (and it's still ongoing BTW). Arguably killed more than Jim Crow laws had. It's the shock of the analogy that surprises people more than anything else, but pretty valid once you think about it.

 

[Agent_ShortBus]

I own an AK-47 and a 1942 Turkish Mauser. I was afraid of guns for the longest time but once my friends took me out to the range I had a blast. I want to one day own a shotgun for sure, and maybe a handgun but probably not. I don't like shooting handguns. I love going to my local range because the people that shoot there are awesome and friendly. I've gotten to shoot some other people's cool guns like the M1 Garand.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Don't know what you're trying to say here.

I'm saying far more Black died from slavery. And it's a shitty analogy.

You're a gun kook. You're in no position of accusing others of that.

See, that's what makes your hardline position as ridiculous as your analogy. Your worldview doesn't allow anyone to NOT be as vehemently anti-gun as you.

If being for mandated gun safes, magazine limits of some type, improved background checks and reporting of mental illness, increased penalty for violent gun crime and increased prison for parents of kids that shoot up schools for allowing their kid to access the firearm in the first place makes me a "kook" then you have a narrow definition of kook.

I've long since established that guns for self-defense is too rare to matter (greatly outnumbered by homicides and suicides). Saying your father needs one is silly and almost no chance of being necessary. Furthermore, gun shot wounds are quite gruesome and the survivors are maimed for life (most people survive gun shot wounds, so the number of maimings greatly outnumber deaths). So this is a quite a large source of suffering.

You've long since established? Except it's already been necessary twice for him. Stats are nice. We can scour the web to pick the data that suits our perspective then the other side can attack the source and round and round we go. But when the reality is someone is kicking your back door in stats go out the window. That's what happened to him. And he's the type of guy you'd need to convince to adopt your worldview. Comparing his ownership of a firearm for defense to the mothership of humans isn't going to engender him seeing things your way.

Defensive gun use happens FAR more often than you're giving credit for. Especially when a shot isn't fired but the presence of a gun causes the intruding party to immediately withdraw. That doesn't make anything past the local crime blog.

IAs bad as slavery? No, of course it isn't, but not really that far off in terms of deaths and maimings (and it's still ongoing BTW). Arguably killed more than Jim Crow laws had. It's the shock of the analogy that surprises people more than anything else, but pretty valid once you think about it.

No, it really is that the accuracy of the analogy is far off. How many people died during slavery. It's not "that far off". It's that far off. It's a piss poor analogy.

I own an AK-47 and a 1942 Turkish Mauser. I was afraid of guns for the longest time but once my friends took me out to the range I had a blast. I want to one day own a shotgun for sure, and maybe a handgun but probably not. I don't like shooting handguns. I love going to my local range because the people that shoot there are awesome and friendly. I've gotten to shoot some other people's cool guns like the M1 Garand.

Yea, I'm not a fan of handguns. What's the point. Their main advantage is their concealability and portability. Both are a no-go for me in NY. I'd rather my Mossberg 500 and my AK.

Former for defense. Latter for affordable range time.

 

[Piggus]

I own an AK-47 and a 1942 Turkish Mauser. I was afraid of guns for the longest time but once my friends took me out to the range I had a blast. I want to one day own a shotgun for sure, and maybe a handgun but probably not. I don't like shooting handguns. I love going to my local range because the people that shoot there are awesome and friendly. I've gotten to shoot some other people's cool guns like the M1 Garand.

You could probably find a Mossberg 500 for around $250. Awesome shotgun.

Here's mine:

I didn't like the end of the magazine not being flush (or close to flush) with the barrel so I added an extended barrel nut.. which is actually a laser site. Makes aiming from the hip actually possible.

I'd say I probably like shotguns more than anything else. Skeet shooting is incredibly fun. But for skeet shooting I use the nicest gun I own... a Japanese Browning Citori Lightning.

 

[Vilix]

I have a good ol' Romanian AK as well... just with more crap on it lol.

I love those muzzle breaks. :3

 

[esms]

You're a gun kook.

This is why you get nowhere. You need to get some self-awareness, brotha.

 

[Piggus]

I love those muzzle breaks. :3

For sure. It was a necessity with that bumpfire stock. Results in much tighter groups when shooting in "full auto" mode.

 

[Boston]

To all the anti gun commies-

Deal with it.

 

[HyperionX]

See, that's what makes your hardline position as ridiculous as your analogy. Your worldview doesn't allow anyone to NOT be as vehemently anti-gun as you.

If being for mandated gun safes, magazine limits of some type, improved background checks and reporting of mental illness, increased penalty for violent gun crime and increased prison for parents of kids that shoot up schools for allowing their kid to access the firearm in the first place makes me a "kook" then you have a narrow definition of kook.

If you actually supported those things I would be with 100% on a host of things. Instead, you show up in every gun thread defending the pro-gun position aggressively, and then write a few sentences suggest some very minor stuff with no details. Sorry, I don't buy it.

You've long since established? Except it's already been necessary twice for him. Stats are nice. We can scour the web to pick the data that suits our perspective then the other side can attack the source and round and round we go. But when the reality is someone is kicking your back door in stats go out the window. That's what happened to him. And he's the type of guy you'd need to convince to adopt your worldview. Comparing his ownership of a firearm for defense to the mothership of humans isn't going to engender him seeing things your way.

Funny how you never mentioned this ever before even though we have many similar discussions like this one. Everyone of your personal stories always had that weirdly fishy smell to it and I refuse to believe any personal anecdote you provide.

No, it really is that the accuracy of the analogy is far off. How many people died during slavery. It's not "that far off". It's that far off. It's a piss poor analogy.

Same order of magnitude in terms of deaths. There's no point in discussing it anymore if you still feel that still makes it a bad analogy.

 

[HyperionX]

This is why you get nowhere. You need to get some self-awareness, brotha.

What can I say? I speak my mind.

 

[killamajig]

If you actually supported those things I would be with 100% on a host of things. Instead, you show up in every gun thread defending the pro-gun position aggressively, and then write a few sentences suggest some very minor stuff with no details. Sorry, I don't buy it.



Funny how you never mentioned this ever before even though we have many similar discussions like this one. Everyone of your personal stories always had that weirdly fishy smell to it and I refuse to believe any personal anecdote you provide.



Same order of magnitude in terms of deaths. There's no point in discussing it anymore if you still feel that still makes it a bad analogy.

How about I give you a personal story from me.
i was the 41 year old man.

http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/newsroom/incidentreports/incident.cfm?id=12504

Incident TypeBattery
Incident Date09/08/2011 - 10:30 PM
AddressS. Park Street
ArrestedLorenzo C. Brown, age 24, Madison
Mr. Brown was arrested for Battery, Disorderly Conduct, and Resisting/Obstructing.
Victim(s)Female, age 39, Madison

Details A 41-year old Madison man was able to stop an attack on a woman Thursday night by pointing his handgun at a suspect who was battering the victim. The gun owner said he feared the woman would be killed if he did not intervene. The incident started inside his Park Street apartment building. He heard screams for help coming from a common hallway and went to find out what was happening. He observed the suspect standing over a 39-year old woman. She was in a fetal position, and the suspect was stomping on her head. He yelled for the man to stop, but his pleas fell on deaf ears. The beating continued. The concerned citizen went back to his apartment. He wanted to call for help, but could not locate his cell phone, so he grabbed his handgun. He went back into the hallway, and pointed it at the suspect, and once again ordered the beating to stop. This time the suspect paid heed. The woman seized the opportunity to rise, and the citizen yelled for her to get out of the building. He kept his weapon trained on the suspect. The suspect initially swore at the citizen, but later calmed down, and said he was only defending himself after the woman pulled a knife on him. Feeling the situation had defused, the citizen secured the weapon in his pants, just as police arrived. Officers were responding to reports of a weapons offense. Dispatch had advised there was a man holding a gun, and pointing it at another man. Not knowing the circumstances, both were ordered to the ground and handcuffed. The citizen was very cooperative, the suspect not so much. He yelled obscenities, and threatened to harm officers as he resisted arrest. Once officers understood the situation, the citizen was released. He explained how he initially tried to find his phone, and how he made the decision to confront the suspect at gunpoint. It was clear he was shaken by the incident. He knew getting the gun out could have resulted in a very bad situation, but was also very afraid that if he did nothing the woman might end up dead. The woman, who was not seriously injured, claimed she had come to the building to use the suspect’s cell phone. The suspect claims he and the woman were going to have a romantic interlude after meeting in a park, but that did not happen, because she pulled a knife on him. He was arrested on tentative charges listed above.

Released 09/09/2011 at 10:14 AM by PIO Joel DeSpain

Edit: for the record I was a correctional officer and was trained on how to handle myself in "bad" situations.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

If you actually supported those things I would be with 100% on a host of things. Instead, you show up in every gun thread defending the pro-gun position aggressively, and then write a few sentences suggest some very minor stuff with no details. Sorry, I don't buy it.

Is this where you piss and moan about my previous posts that have nothing to do with the conversation about you using a shitty analogy about comparing legal gun ownership to owning human beings? But yes, I show up in a lot of threads. Gun threads obviously are a subject that interest me. What I been suggesting is very minor stuff? I've been fairly consistent with my views regarding what guns laws to change and which to not change. I'll admit right now I changed on the magazine limit issue. I do remember defending huge drums and I did change on that and it's something I'd be willing to compromise on. Don't attack me as a poster, attack my position. You've gone past fucking the chicken and now you're just laying tired and spent smoking a cigarette with the damned thing....

If you wanna dog me out as a poster throw me a PM, we can chat it up.

IFunny how you never mentioned this ever before even though we have many similar discussions like this one. Everyone of your personal stories always had that weirdly fishy smell to it and I refuse to believe any personal anecdote you provide.

I only have two personal stories I've ever shared here since they're the only two times I've ever see a gun used to defend myself personally. Both times it wasn't me holding it and I was a kid. But I did mention them on this forum. Perhaps you're not as familiar with me as a poster as your arrogance would lead you to believe?

1) Crackhead kicking door in and pops aimed his gun right down the hallway and guy ran off and thankfully didn't return.

2) Neighbor and cop used his off duty piece to arrest a guy that pulled a gun on myself and some friends cause he didn't like the noise we were making.

A third anecdote I mentioned regarding identifying a target because my alarm got tripped and I was up out of bed, grabbed my shotgun and looked in the bed and didn't see my wife so then I slowed down and actually inspected the situation before firing rounds in my living room and it was just her that opened a window. But that was used to drive home a point in a previous discussion that people need to identify a target before opening fire.

I have no reason to lie and why would you have any reason to not believe what I'm telling you except for the fact that it goes counter to your myopic worldview? I mean, I disagree with you but I'm not insinuating you're a liar.

Same order of magnitude in terms of deaths. There's no point in discussing it anymore if you still feel that still makes it a bad analogy.

Oh no. It's not that I feel it makes a bad analogy. It's that it is a bad analogy. Absolutely piss poor and the conversation is infinitely worse for you having tried to use it. I get that you're trying to say "Hey these two things were ONCE considered bad and maybe one day guns will too!" but that simply insults and ignores the huge differences between gun ownership and slavery and you're not gonna convince people when you make shitty connections like that.

What can I say? I speak my mind.

Poorly.

 

[HyperionX]

How about I give you a personal story from me.
i was the 41 year old man.

http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/newsroom/incidentreports/incident.cfm?id=12504

Edit: for the record I was a correctional officer and was trained on how to handle myself in "bad" situations.

They do happen, but greatly outnumbered by gun homicides and suicides. It's great that you have a story like this, but in the grand scheme of things this isn't really that valuable.

 

[ShadowKingpin]

Nothing wrong with compensating for loved ones with material goods. You can even keep pictures in your wallet like this guy:

They are stock images I found on Google. XD Those are what my guns look like, but not my images.

 

[killamajig]

They do happen, but greatly outnumbered by gun homicides and suicides. It's great that you have a story like this, but in the grand scheme of things this isn't really that valuable.

Please tell us how you would stop gun violence in the U.S.

And no going back in time and no magic wands.

 

[HyperionX]

Is this where you piss and moan about my previous posts that have nothing to do with the conversation about you using a shitty analogy about comparing legal gun ownership to owning human beings? But yes, I show up in a lot of threads. Gun threads obviously are a subject that interest me. What I been suggesting is very minor stuff? I've been fairly consistent with my views regarding what guns laws to change and which to not change. I'll admit right now I changed on the magazine limit issue. I do remember defending huge drums and I did change on that and it's something I'd be willing to compromise on. Don't attack me as a poster, attack my position. You've gone past fucking the chicken and now you're just laying tired and spent smoking a cigarette with the damned thing....

If you wanna dog me out as a poster throw me a PM, we can chat it up.

Not interested in PM debates. I'll just say your behavior in threads like these are pretty one-sided, extremely defensive of pro-gun positions and are simply not consistent with a person who actually wanted to see those policies enacted.

I only have two personal stories I've ever shared here since they're the only two times I've ever see a gun used to defend myself personally. Both times it wasn't me holding it and I was a kid. But I did mention them on this forum. Perhaps you're not as familiar with me as a poster as your arrogance would lead you to believe?

1) Crackhead kicking door in and pops aimed his gun right down the hallway and guy ran off and thankfully didn't return.

2) Neighbor and cop used his off duty piece to arrest a guy that pulled a gun on myself and some friends cause he didn't like the noise we were making.

A third anecdote I mentioned regarding identifying a target because my alarm got tripped and I was up out of bed, grabbed my shotgun and looked in the bed and didn't see my wife so then I slowed down and actually inspected the situation before firing rounds in my living room and it was just her that opened a window. But that was used to drive home a point in a previous discussion that people need to identify a target before opening fire.

I have no reason to lie and why would you have any reason to not believe what I'm telling you except for the fact that it goes counter to your myopic worldview? I mean, I disagree with you but I'm not insinuating you're a liar.

You had many opportunities to reveal those stories and I've never seen them. Maybe I'm just unlucky but that seems unlikely since we've had very similar conversations like this one where such an incredibly convenient story would be really useful as a counterpoint. Furthermore, I could swear you once said you became familiar with guns as an adult and not as a child. Like I said, your stories are just too weirdly fishy for me to take seriously.

Since so much of your viewpoint can only be justified by stories like these, sadly, you have a quite a few reasons to lie. So sorry, under no circumstances would I ever accept one of your personal anecdotes.

Oh no. It's not that I feel it makes a bad analogy. It's that it is a bad analogy. Absolutely piss poor and the conversation is infinitely worse for you having tried to use it. I get that you're trying to say "Hey these two things were ONCE considered bad and maybe one day guns will too!" but that simply insults and ignores the huge differences between gun ownership and slavery and you're not gonna convince people when you make shitty connections like that.

Then we're going to have to leave it at that.

 

[RELAYER]

Not interested in PM debates. I'll just say your behavior in threads like these are pretty one-sided, extremely defensive of pro-gun positions and are simply not consistent with a person who actually wanted to see those policies enacted.



You had many opportunities to reveal those stories and I've never seen them. Maybe I'm just unlucky but that seems unlikely since we've had very similar conversations like this one where such an incredibly convenient story would be really useful as a counterpoint. Furthermore, I could swear you once said you became familiar with guns as an adult and not as a child. Like I said, your stories are just too weirdly fishy for me to take seriously.

Since so much of your viewpoint can only be justified by stories like these, sadly, you have a quite a few reasons to lie. So sorry, under no circumstances would I ever accept one of your personal anecdotes.



Then we're going to have to leave it at that.

I mostly stay out of debates here but sometimes I read them, and I just want to say that I have seen him share those stories before, that you have no reason to insinuate/assert that he is a liar, and you're out of line for doing so.

I'd also add that you argue like a troll.
I'm not sure whether it's intentional or just a character flaw.

 

[HyperionX]

I mostly stay out of debates here but sometimes I read them, and I just want to say that I have seen him share those stories before, that you have no reason to insinuate/assert that he is a liar, and you're out of line for doing so.

I am pretty sure he and I had a very similar conversation regarding guns for self-defense perhaps a year or so ago and he never brought it. You may have a different take, but from my personal experience he's not a credible person.

 

[FuriousOne]

I have considered it in the past for just for recreational shooting. However I realized that would be just another expensive hobby with no real upside and lots of potential downsides.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Not interested in PM debates. I'll just say your behavior in threads like these are pretty one-sided, extremely defensive of pro-gun positions and are simply not consistent with a person who actually wanted to see those policies enacted.

How should my behavior be other than to say "I support X" in terms of policy? Should I engage in emotional hyperbole to prove my devotion? I don't get this. What type of behavior would be consistent with a person that actually wants to see those policies enacted on an off topic video game forum?

You had many opportunities to reveal those stories and I've never seen them. Maybe I'm just unlucky but that seems unlikely since we've had very similar conversations like this one where such an incredibly convenient story would be really useful as a counterpoint. Furthermore, I could swear you once said you became familiar with guns as an adult and not as a child. Like I said, your stories are just too weirdly fishy for me to take seriously.

You are the arbiter of EVERY god damned post I've ever made?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36970652&postcount=201

I can't find the other post but c'mon with this shit, lmao.

Since so much of your viewpoint can only be justified by stories like these, sadly, you have a quite a few reasons to lie. So sorry, under no circumstances would I ever accept one of your personal anecdotes.

Or perhaps my experiences have shaped my worldview. That tends to happen in life. To people. Your viewpoint can only be justified my claiming personal anecdotes are disingenuous.

Then we're going to have to leave it at that.

Until you decide to equate owning guns to slavery and jim crow again, lmao.

I am pretty sure he and I had a very similar conversation regarding guns for self-defense perhaps a year or so ago and he never brought it. You may have a different take, but from my personal experience he's not a credible person.

I didn't bring it up in that conversation dude. That means it never happened? That's a real shitty assumption. The wonderful thing about telling the truth is you can't get caught in a lie. I've never bullshitted on anything here. And the onus is on YOU to PROVE your accusation before just throwing them out there because you don't like the fact that you don't get to shit up gun threads without me around to sometimes call you out on your bullshit. And to clarify, I don't believe your views on guns to be "bullshit". But equating people like me, my dad, my family as the same moral crime as slavery and jim crow is bullshit.

I'm not credible to you because we disagree on the gun issue, lol. You want them all banned and view them as inherently evil. I do not. I believe in civilian firearm ownership. Responsible ownership. Problem is if you believe gun ownership for civilians is inherently irresponsible then the conversation never really gets anywhere.

 

[Fink]

Probably would look into getting one if I were to end up living alone in a secluded place.

 

[draetenth]

No, I could never own a gun. I would never be able to bring myself to use it so it seems like a waste to have one.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

No, I could never own a gun. I would never be able to bring myself to use it so it seems like a waste to have one.

Absolutely. It's not for everyone. And there's nothing wrong with that. If you don't have the willingness to use it odds are it'll just be taken from you during any situation where you'd need to use it.

 

[Vilix]

Absolutely. It's not for everyone. And there's nothing wrong with that. If you don't have the willingness to use it odds are it'll just be taken from you during any situation where you'd need to use it.

Or, in most cases, it'll just sit in a safe in the back of a closet. Believe it, or not, most people in America never experience gun violence, chief.