Mammoth Jones
Member
You mean to tell me other gun owning people own guns for similar reasons?!?! Say it ain't so....
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Would you ever own a gun?
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You mean to tell me other gun owning people own guns for similar reasons?!?! Say it ain't so....
RyanardoDaVinci
Member
When we were kids, my brother and I had one of these to play with:
My dad was Inglewood PD and got it before it went to auction, it had all its firing components removed when it was seized. I have no idea where it went, I think he got rid of it one day for some reason.
Why do you say needing a gun in self-defense is rare, if crimes involving guns are common?
As in most gun owners ultimately admit they live in pretty safe neighborhoods. Probably safer than many anti-gun people.
A variety of reasons. The victim never saw it coming, it was a disagreement that lead to violence, accidental death, etc. For whatever reason, self-defense cases don't happen very often, about 1600 in 2014.
1600 self-defense cases in 2014? Is that nationwide or just a particular city? Doesn't that just show that there are instances where guns are actually needed for safety / self-defense purposes?
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
I totally agree with you. I lived in an urban inner city environment and always have yet I've never felt the need to own a gun. I honestly think it has to do with people's mindset. IMHO alot of gun owners live in fear and are paranoid.
Anecdote time. The few gun owners I've ever known have lived in upper middle class master planned communities or out in the sticks. Weird. *shrugs*
Mammoth Jones
Member
Hence why I actually pointed out incidents that have happened in my area that have compelled me to keep a gun in my home just incase.
I'm not gonna pretend I live in a warzone. I don't. But property crime/burglaries is fairly higher than the state average and my wife has had her car broken into twice in our parking lot. She also encountered a guy breaking into a neighbors car. A few guys got shot last year. And my downstairs neighbor had her door kicked in and a gun put up to her head. There's also the issue of the main door to my building not always being closed correctly so half the time people can just walk in if they were so inclined.
So yea, I have an alarm, a cell phone, and a gun. Of the three I consider the cell phone to be the most vital tool. But I'm gonna have my gun just incase. Villifying people like me who just want to have something for home defense that realize there IS a increased risk of family injury so they try and be responsible and have a safe and storage for ammo, trigger locks and whatnot and makes sure their shit is locked away when they're not present and is responsible isn't going to convince us to say "Meh, you know what this dude is right."
Here's crime where I live (removed actual name to maintain some semblance of privacy):
The crime rate is considerably higher than the national average across all communities in America from the largest to the smallest, although at 37 crimes per one thousand residents, it is not among the communities with the very highest crime rate. The chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime in XXXXXX is 1 in 27. Based on FBI crime data, it is not one of the safest communities in America. Relative to New York, it has a crime rate that is higher than 91% of the state's cities and towns of all sizes.
Importantly, when you compare XXXXXX to other communities of similar population, then the crime rate (violent and property crimes combined) is quite a bit higher than average. Regardless of how XXXXX does relative to all communities in America of all sizes, when NeighborhoodScout compared it to communities of similar population size, its crime rate per thousand residents stands out as higher than most.
Now let us turn to take a look at how XXXXX does for violent crimes specifically, and then how it does for property crimes. This is important because the overall crime rate can be further illuminated by understanding if violent crime or property crimes (or both) are the major contributors to the general rate of crime in XXXXX.
From our analysis, we discovered that violent crime in XXXXX occurs at a rate higher than in most communities of all population sizes in America. The chance that a person will become a victim of a violent crime in XXXXXX; such as armed robbery, aggravated assault, rape or murder; is 1 in 261. This equates to a rate of 4 per one thousand inhabitants.
NeighborhoodScout's analysis also reveals that XXXXXXX's rate for property crime is 33 per one thousand population. This makes XXXXXX a place where there is an above average chance of becoming a victim of a property crime, when compared to all other communities in America of all population sizes. Property crimes are motor vehicle theft, arson, larceny, and burglary. Your chance of becoming a victim of any of these crimes in XXXXXX is one in 30.
Importantly, we found that XXXXXXX has one of the highest rates of motor vehicle theft in the nation according to our analysis of FBI crime data. This is compared to communities of all sizes, from the smallest to the largest. In fact, your chance of getting your car stolen if you live in XXXXXX is one in 310.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
OK hero. I live just as comfortably with out fearing my kid is going to accidentally blow his head off.
Mammoth Jones
Member
This. I understand the "Gun owners own guns cause they're cowards" trope they gets thrown out there but it's really NOT something I think about outside of debates on this forum, lol.
It's just I'm cognizant of crime in my area and just in case the worst happened I keep in my home just in case I ever need it.
No biggie. It's done nothing but collect dust since I've owned it. Save for range days. I hope that trend continues.
This is a valid concern and it's good that you as an individual weighed the pros vs the cons and decided NOT to own a firearm. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that.
I wasn't able to own one for YEARS because I lived with someone with a serious mental illness that had bouts of psychosis. I decided that owning a gun wouldn't be a good idea under those circumstances. Individuals making choices for their OWN specific situation. That's what it's all about.
lazer_bean
Member
look where ? Where do you live to have people potentially break in to kill you or your family for no reason, or to rape them lol
Also what makes you think the victims weren't gun owners anyway ?
A gun's made to kill, not to save your life. By owning a gun I guess you're more likely to be a murderer than a hero
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
For what it's worth I wish every gun owner was as level headed as you are/seem.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
Like a Taser. Oh wait, that's not masculine, better buy a gun. Good for the ego, good against the "bad guys". Pow pow!
Lets weigh good vs. bad. United States firearm statistics.
against
killamajig
Member
HyperionX,
So all those gun owners in other countries are likely to kill themselves or somebody else too?. That's why people are not buying your "all guns are bad" argument. If you want to argue the U.S. has a problem with gun crime i'm going to agree. But its not responsible gun owners that are to blame.
Some of us don't live in great neighborhoods too. Until you get rid of criminals having guns I'm not going to rely on a baseball bat and phone to help me defend myself or wife.
My wife was very glad I had a gun when we found out some guy broke into a apartment building next to us. Because there is no way she could defend herself by fighting hand to hand. I can't argue for all women but there are some I know that feel like guns are the best defense from assault.
It's not men just over compensating or wanting to be macho. Women have a right to defend themselves. Until you get your way and all guns magically disappear there are law biding citizens that will feel responsible to protect their families any way they can. No matter how insignificant you think the chances are they will be in danger from a gun toting criminal.
National wide according to this politico article. For a country with 320 million people, that's quite a small number and shows the need for guns for safety reasons are quite low.
killamajig
Member
Tasers are shit for defense. I know, I've used them and pepper spray a lot. I worked as a correctional officer and I would never rely on one to defend myself.
And stop saying people own guns because it makes them feel like a man. That's bullshit.
Mammoth Jones
Member
But it's a great way to marginalize those with a different perspectives by characterizing them as a caricature rather than just fellow people that see things differently.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
For some it absolutely does despite your vehement denial just like big trucks for some it's a way to overcompensate whether you like it or not.
Mammoth Jones
Member
I mean sure there are mall ninjas that need all the tacticool crap to feel powerful and all that but folks like grandma that keeps her dead husbands revolver on deck cause she lives alone ain't one of em. It's millions of people like that that OWN a gun but aren't really absorbed into the "gun culture" and all that noise.
These are large swaths of people that get generalized and their perspectives marginalized by saying "Macho man with a little cock!".
I've said this before: I find you to be an incredibly dishonest poster, and still won't accept your personal anecdotes as real. Maybe some of it is real, but there's just too much of it to believable.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
Traditional cowboy and cop culture disagree. Do you disagree that gender association regards "being in control" and "protecting" as masculine features, or being a "tough guy" a masculine feature. The link between perceived masculinity (both by oneself and others) and gun ownership/using a gun/holding a gun isn't up for debate.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
I'm in the UK. Wouldn't have a gun here. Heck, I don't even lock my back door. For home defence I keep a nine-iron handy - though the one time I interrupted a burglar at work in my house I made him a cup of tea instead.
Might be tempted for hunting if I moved somewhere with lots of space and wildlife (I have shot before at a range, came second in a competition many years ago - so maybe not your typical Brit in a gun thread).
I doubt, though, that I would keep a gun in the house. That just feels uncomfortable.
Might be tempted for hunting if I moved somewhere with lots of space and wildlife (I have shot before at a range, came second in a competition many years ago - so maybe not your typical Brit in a gun thread).
I doubt, though, that I would keep a gun in the house. That just feels uncomfortable.
killamajig
Member
I don't think you are a shit. Or anyone that doesn't like guns.
killamajig
Member
A gun doesn't make you tough, whatever Hollywood says.
I agree there is a glorification of violence in pop culture too. But that doesn't make me think most gun owners are doing it to be a badass.
I live in Wisconsin now and there are many gun owners here. Hunting is very popular here and even in 2015 low income people rely on deer meat to feed their families. Its not all about self defense or being masculine either.
Mammoth Jones
Member
"I don't like your perspective on civilian gun ownership therefore you are lying"
You say this but have zero specifics to back up your claim. The onus is on you to prove it or provide some evidence.
Otherwise stop making baseless and vague accusations.
How am I suppose to prove a negative? Especially when we only have your word to go on. You just spew way too many of these stories and it's incredible hard to take you seriously.
no tasers are masculine because if you miss and you certainly will when you are amped up AND THEN if the intruder doesnt run away then all you have for defence is hand to hand combat and THAT'\s very manly
i'd probably debate on a link between two factors concluding to a causation
well maybe next time dont make weird claims on other peoples livelihoods you know you cant prove. lol, "Hey I live in a dangerous area an-" NO YOU DON'T
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
We're talking about the perception of toughness, so Hollywood does say.
As if to prove my point, you mention hunting (which is traditionally a role filled by men) and "providing for families", which has for the longest time been considered a masculine duty (being the breadwinner).
Mammoth Jones
Member
Oh so you have zero evidence. Gotcha. Maybe you should stop assuming a fellow poster is not telling the truth.
Protip: This is a discussion forum we only have every posters word to go on.
killamajig
Member
We have women hunters here too.
Edit:I was curious about how many.
I'm not sure what you want me to say. I was rebutting the notion the reason someone would use a gun instead of a taser is because the gun feeds the ego.
boredofcanada
Member
Until a homeless guy breaks into your house, and shoots you with your own gun as you get home from work, like what happened to someone I know.
Technically it's up to him to prove they happened, not us. Even if you want to use that style of argument, I will point out that I too lived in a dangerous area for about 3 years. Yeah, some violent crimes did happen around the city, but it's not going to hit you and your nearby neighbor multiple times.
Your stories are simply too convenient and you have way too many of them for me to take you seriously. I'm going to ignore them for here on out.
lock your guns
that's not a style of argument. "but it could not happen to you specifically!" does nothing to refute his claim
boredofcanada
Member
Yea he should have.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
You sound like a completely irresponsible person if you fear your kids blowing their heads off because you own a gun. So for you, I am glad if you're not a gun owner.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
Some people buy a gun to feed an ego. To feel tough, to feel "cool", "masculine". Same with cars. I'm not saying it's always the case but arguing it's never the case is to deny that a huge piece of cultural attribution and human nature doesn't exist.
So you would leave your gun with ammo somewhere where your kid could get to it?
What is it with people assuming that if you own a gun you HAVE to keep it where others can get to it? Just another example of people not actually thinking about their argument.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
And how convenient it must be to just ignore someone's experiences and/or point of view because it conflicts with yours.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
Accidents never happen. Right? Its not like we see these things happen on the nightly news EVER! Oh wait... Or maybe if it does happen. I can parrot something absurd that a gun nut would say like. "It was God's plan!"
damn. i can't believe dangerous things exist in this house hold
Mammoth Jones
Member
Before it was that I never mentioned it before. Then I proved YOU to be wrong on that. And notice I don't say you're a liar. Because I don't really think that. Now it's "Your experience is too "convenient".
Actually they were extremely inconvenient. Hence why they've influenced my decision to be armed in my home.
You accuse gun owners of being distrustful and paranoid. I highly suggest you look in a mirror before the next time you accuse fellow posters of lying.
Yeah, because some people are irresponsible dumbasses. What you essentially just said is that if you owned a gun you would be an irresponsible dumbass too.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Never met a responsible gun owner who believe in accidents in relations to firearm safety. If a gun goes off and kills someone it is due to intent or irresponsibility. It's not an accident you didn't take the proper precautions to lock up your guns and keep the ammo separate. I have my gun in a locked drawer, with a second lock through the barrel. Then I keep the ammo locked in another location. Good luck having an 'accident' there.
killamajig
Member
I don't want to give the impression I don't think those people are out there either. I know a guy I would definitely put into to the "I can carry my AK47 to walmart if I want cuz 2nd amendment." There are too many for me too but I know many more responsible gun owners than not. That's why the macho stuff bothers me.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
Nice try. Are the chances of someone in your household accidentally shooting themselves or someone greater with or without a gun in the household? The blood of innocent children are on all your hands.
killamajig
Member
Oh boy.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Take your pathetic appeal to emotion elsewhere. Nobody's blood is on my hands (except for some deer and turkeys) as I am an actual responsible adult who is able to secure a tool safety from others. If you feel you're incapable of that then so be it. As I said, I'm glad you don't have a gun.
lool wat
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