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Deleted member 81567
Unconfirmed Member
Some of you people are so sensitive.
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Would you look down someone that frequents sex workers?
- Thread starter Slayven
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I tried finding some figures and was shocked to find that people trafficking is on the increase in the Netherlands.
Autumn Wind
Member
500% agreed.
nVidiot_Whore
Banned
To me legalizing prostitution is just partly a basic human rights issue. A woman should be able to have sex for money if she wants without risking her freedom being taken away for making that decision.
Everything else, safety, combating trafficking, etc. are side issues that need to be dealt with whether prostitution is illegal or not.
A massive amount of rape occurs when people are abusing alcohol, as well as other crimes, yet there's very little traction in the "Western World" to making alcohol illegal.. because people want the right to do something responsibly no matter who is irresponsible with it.
People have an odd way of rationalizing why one thing should be illegal while ignoring the massively destructive things that are perfectly legal.
Everything else, safety, combating trafficking, etc. are side issues that need to be dealt with whether prostitution is illegal or not.
A massive amount of rape occurs when people are abusing alcohol, as well as other crimes, yet there's very little traction in the "Western World" to making alcohol illegal.. because people want the right to do something responsibly no matter who is irresponsible with it.
People have an odd way of rationalizing why one thing should be illegal while ignoring the massively destructive things that are perfectly legal.
Femmeworth
Banned
I'm talking about the kind of people the woman in the video below appeals to.
OttomanScribe
Member
I was talking about the assumption in the argument that you appear to be distancing yourself from.
You said:
Which does imply, at least in the logic there, that rape is on some level caused by our biological desire for sex, and that therefore by providing a paid outlet for that desire, rape will be less frequent. Without that connection, the two are unrelated statements.
OttomanScribe
Member
I forgot about that right in the charter. Lol.
That can be an argument for prohibition as much as it is for legalising prostitution. It isn't a no-brainer either way.
What do you think the best way is to eliminate such exploitation? Serious question. If keeping prostitution illegal is the best way then I'd support it, but the evidence doesn't seem to suggest that at all. So what's the correct way forward?
The answer is yes for the most part.
Only heavily regulated and monitored prostitution would be a viable avenue. As it stands, trafficking results in one of the worst human abuses imaginable and if left unregulated is often the breeding ground for serial rapists and killers.
Only heavily regulated and monitored prostitution would be a viable avenue. As it stands, trafficking results in one of the worst human abuses imaginable and if left unregulated is often the breeding ground for serial rapists and killers.
WorriedCitizen
Member
Most of my friends go to prostitutes regularely. It's legal in my country. Don't have a problem with it.
Personally i have never been to a prostitute but i wouldn't rule it out in the future. Most of the prostitutes that i've seen here are super hot girls from places like Czech, Hungary, Russia etc. What holds me back apart from my social anxiety is that i fear for my savings if i would suddenly acquire a taste for it. Also so far i've never felt desperate enough to go for it. Might change in the future when i get older, uglier and more sexualy deprived.
Personally i have never been to a prostitute but i wouldn't rule it out in the future. Most of the prostitutes that i've seen here are super hot girls from places like Czech, Hungary, Russia etc. What holds me back apart from my social anxiety is that i fear for my savings if i would suddenly acquire a taste for it. Also so far i've never felt desperate enough to go for it. Might change in the future when i get older, uglier and more sexualy deprived.
OttomanScribe
Member
I don't know any society that has a model that I think should be followed. Either way prostitution seems to have an aura of abuse around it.
I think that part of it is not about making the prostitutes criminals as much as it is making johns accountable.... in most societies the emphasis becomes about the woman being punished, when the reality is that the entire industry is almost exclusively a service for men, run predominantly by men, with women as products.
I don't claim to have an ideal model in any respect. I however think that the kind of ideas people have expressed in this thread are problematic, hence my objections.
Finaika
Member
Lookism strikes again.
speculawyer
Member
Mmm . . . no, I don't think so. As long as he/she treats them with respect and keeps it clear that it is a business relationship.
speculawyer
Member
Oh, you ALWAYS pay for it.
OttomanScribe
Member
That is being discussed above. Why would it be the case?
It would, but what's stopping potential rapists from hurting prostitutes then? I do agree with legalizing it for the record.
To answer the OP's question, I won't look down on others, although I wouldn't do it myself.
OttomanScribe
Member
This...
as one organisation put it:
'The argument also suggests that women who are not prostituted are safer because some other women are set aside to be commercially raped on their behalf. '
scar tissue
Banned
At least two of my friends have had sex with escorts. I do not look down on them, but I think it's sad that they had to take this path. They're great guys who deserve proper relationships with girls.
That being said, I'm almost as bad with women as they are and will probably wind up doing the same thing sometime down the line. I really, really don't want my first sex to be with an escort, but I also don't want to wait until I am an old man.
That being said, I'm almost as bad with women as they are and will probably wind up doing the same thing sometime down the line. I really, really don't want my first sex to be with an escort, but I also don't want to wait until I am an old man.
I was thinking that since there are numerous reasons that people rape others that legalizing prostitution could potentially wipe out certain peoples reasons. That might reduce it even if not by much. Of course, like Evol 100% said, people could hurt the prostitutes instead potentially raising the amount of rapes.
Rape is usually about violence, not sex, so I would doubt it.
nVidiot_Whore
Banned
Some rape is certainly from unsatisfied sexual desire. I don't know why you are trying to claim zero connection between unfulfilled sexual desire and some ocurrance of rape.
And why do I have to distance myself from a clearly rhetorical statement I made that I followed with:
I merely suggested the logic isn't difficult to understand, and if I implied anything it's that I believe it to be possible.
But it's a complex topic; and it only addresses one "kind" of rape.. rapes that occur due to unfulfilled desire.
My experience with sex suggests it's not that simple, so I'd have no way to know for sure. It's also quite possible something like that could encourage more rape. Who is anyone to say for sure?
Certainly true. I'm simply suggesting many demand the personal freedoms they want no matter what the societal impact may be, while damning other activities that boil down to basic personal freedoms as well. Someone's decision of why they will or won't have sex with someone.
But you find the idea that it's a right laughable, so not really much for us to discuss there.
scar tissue
Banned
According to a study I'm too lazy to search for right now, the statistically most likely to be raped women are in the fertile age. If it was about violence only, elderly women would be a prime target (weak, easy to overpower), but they are not.
Plus, most rapists apparently do not use excessive force. They "only" hurt their victim enough to subdue it.
OttomanScribe
Member
I gather that the statistics go either way. If someone has a penchance for sexual violence, having access to women who have less avenue for complaint doesn't seem a good way to limit that.
Like it or not, rape is hard enough to prove in general, as in many societies wearing a red dress is sufficient to be 'justification' for rape. When we are talking about women who have apparently given consent in a fairly permanent manner, to sex with strangers, the oppurtunities for sexual violence seem logically to have a potential to increase rather than decrease.
nVidiot_Whore
Banned
That is completely backwards. As if those with a penchant for sexual violence don't have thousands of illegal prostitutes who are extremely vulnerable prey.
You are assuming prostitution would dramatically increase. It's not like it isn't rampant. There are hundreds of girls waiting for phone calls right now in any major city in America, advertising online.. hundreds more walking the streets.. dozens of massage parlors running illegal brothels. There's a stretch of road near me with 5-6 that are open until 2am almost every night. A quick google search indicates hundreds of stories clearly indicating they are brothels.. busts happen quite often, but they still continue to exist.
Chances are we'd have an overall positive affect on the danger that any given prostitute is in.
OttomanScribe
Member
This doesn't relate to my point.
I don't believe I said it would, but it seems like a conclusion that isn't too out there.
I didn't say it wasn't.
Okay...
The argument being made isn't 'legalising sex work will make sex workers safer, it is 'legalising sex work will lessen the amount of rapes'. I am responding to the second, not the first, because I don't neccesarily disagree with the first.
Devolution
Member
Legalized prostitution means victims can come forward and some men can finally go to prison. So yes, there would be less rape.
disappeared
Banned
I called in two prostitutes in one night. A tax return well spent.
One of the girls said she stayed with a client for two days once, strictly for the company, and she collected close to $15,000 out of the deal.
One of the girls said she stayed with a client for two days once, strictly for the company, and she collected close to $15,000 out of the deal.
nVidiot_Whore
Banned
How so? What is your point other than somehow legalizing prostitution creates more women vulnerable to rape?
Is that not your point?
You suggested it could increase sexual violence because it would create more vulnerable women.. in particular, you suggested it would somehow increase the amount of women with "less avenue of complaint."
They are the same thing.. you are arguing that it would increase danger for prostitutes, unless you are just completely ignoring the existence of rampant illegal prostition.. (which you so condescendingly passed off, as if it's not your fault I'm having to point out these basic facts in the face of your nonsensical "point.")..you are claiming somehow legalizing prostitution would put more women in risky situations, and you are being corrected quite plainly with basic logic.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
I honestly sometimes wish I lived my life this way. The companionship you get in normal relationships is nice, but to be honest I think that a good dog could serve that function just as well (and probably better, since they arent nearly as demanding as most of the girls Ive met). If I stuck with the high class agencies, I'd be able feed my manly desires by banging super hot women, except I wouldn't have to worry about commitment and all the nasty things that come when you get tired of them in a relationship. There may be a cost difference, but if you have the cash its probably worth the superior lifestyle.
disappeared
Banned
The catch is when you want them to stay a little longer but then you remember the amount of money in your bank account and have to let them leave.
OttomanScribe
Member
I get the impression that the legalisation of prostitution does not suddenly erase the cultural baggage that comes with women who exchange sex for money. I live in a country where it is legal, yet the word 'slut' still has negative connotations and the sex workers that the research leader interviewed viewed going to the police about violence they suffered as a complete waste of time.
So even in the rare cases where conviction is more likely, that has to be weighed up against the increase of available sex workers, and the absence of the criminality of the act itself. Not to mention the perceived social acceptability of the idea of an exchange of a woman's body for currency. Of the body as property to be bought and sold.
My point responds to the assertion that legalising prostitution will lower the number of rapes because of the fact that it provides an outlet for those with a desire to rape by pointing out that it does not in fact do so, as sex workers, legal or illegal are just as vulnerable to rape as any other women.
The point of course is being morphed from the aforementioned (outlet for sexual desires) to another, about protection. I am arguing that the benefits in this respect are not as clear as people seem to assume, but I will say I am less confident in the rejection of the second as I am in rejection of the first.
Where did I do this? What I said was that if someone is into rape, providing a bunch of women the sale of whose bodies is enshrined by the state, does not seem a realistic way to do so. Rape isn't driven by women, 'vulnerable' or otherwise. If someone is inclined towards sexually assaulting someone, they are not going to be less inclined to do so because they can go to a prostitute. If that is their inclination and they go to a sex worker, then it will manifest itself there.
So lets follow the logic of the assertions being made. The first, that I am refuting, is as follows:
Prostitution is good because it lessens the amount of rape that occurs by subverting the sex drives of men inclined towards rape.
Within this is the assumption that the legalising of sex work will increase the availability of sex workers for those men who have such inclinations. If this is not the case, if the intent of the legalisation is not to increase the availability of sex workers, then the first point falls apart doesn't it?
If it is in fact the case, then my point stands. You can't have it both ways, you can't say that simultaneously legalising sex work will lessen the amount of rape by increasing the availability of sex workers, and then turn around and say that it wont increase the number of sex workers who might be raped because there are illegal sex workers out there anyway.
Hmm...
Devolution
Member
People are going to sell sex. Would you rather they do it with some forms of protection or not? Rapists target prostitutes precisely because many simply won't report it for fear of being charged themselves for a crime. Once you remove that catch 22 that means sex workers can come forward and report rapes against their person. That means more rapists off the streets. Many serial rapists/killers started out on prostitutes (or just stayed on them) specifically because they are an unprotected underclass of people. Why should we not create a situation in which these people are no longer vilified and are more safe?
wolfmat
Confirmed Asshole
I don't get why bodies can't straight-out be a ware. As long as you want to sell whatever part of you, go for it. You're the adult, there's obviously value attached to it, there's a perfect market for it, it's simply business as usual. There's no reason whatsoever to attach a stigma to it except for what, some weird abstract fear of convenient sex with strangers that comes from the depths of history? That's archaic, ridiculously dismissive in all sorts of ways, and downright cruel, considering the choices some people end up with.
It's not exactly the most awesome job ever, I think we're all in agreement there; it's manual labour at all hours outside with beauty as the selling point and all that; but are you aware what kind of shit jobs are out there anyway, and we just say "alright, someone's gotta do that, can't help it"?
What do you want uneducated women to do in the end, rather have sex for money if they're up for it, or scrape toilets, wait tables, bake pizza, assemble plastic crap, clean office buildings and so on, and get fired eventually because it's not hard to switch out powerless and dumb people like they're door handles?
People just burn to ashes over the years if they're used like that anyway, so let them choose the modicum. Who are you to judge anyway?
Edit: I'm really not sure who I'm asking, by the way. I'm dumb like that.
It's not exactly the most awesome job ever, I think we're all in agreement there; it's manual labour at all hours outside with beauty as the selling point and all that; but are you aware what kind of shit jobs are out there anyway, and we just say "alright, someone's gotta do that, can't help it"?
What do you want uneducated women to do in the end, rather have sex for money if they're up for it, or scrape toilets, wait tables, bake pizza, assemble plastic crap, clean office buildings and so on, and get fired eventually because it's not hard to switch out powerless and dumb people like they're door handles?
People just burn to ashes over the years if they're used like that anyway, so let them choose the modicum. Who are you to judge anyway?
Edit: I'm really not sure who I'm asking, by the way. I'm dumb like that.
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
Serious question; let me change the OP a bit:
Do you have the same view toward someone who is ugly/anti-social and can't get a woman who uses prostitutes, as you do a well-looking guy who has had plenty of GFs but still enjoys using prostitutes?
Do you have the same view toward someone who is ugly/anti-social and can't get a woman who uses prostitutes, as you do a well-looking guy who has had plenty of GFs but still enjoys using prostitutes?
samus i am
Member
Yes
wolfmat
Confirmed Asshole
Everyone has a story. I don't see a reason to judge based on likeability vs prostitute visiting habit.
And if you think about it, since they both visit prostitutes in your scenario, which I see as getting a magazine at the kiosk, all that's left to distinguish them is likeability. So I see it as a sort of trick question.
Am I supposed to feel sorry for the ugly/anti-social guy? Am I supposed to attribute misguide to the well-looking guy? It's like a soap opera.
And to what end? They either visit prostitutes, or they don't. Justification is besides the point to me. Facts matter in the end.
Devolution
Member
It really shouldn't matter. It seems prostitution is the last hold out in terms of sex laws that are highly invasive and bullshit (at least in the US). We've struct down sodomy laws between consenting adults, it's time to strike down anti-prostitution ones.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
As long as they are single, and not harming anyone, they are in the clear with me.
Although, funnily, my friend broke up over this. The guy asked if she was going to be okay if he went and saw some sex workers cuz he wanted sex more frequently than she did. My friend replied that she was gonna be okay as long as she also can do same. Turned out that she loves a certain kink that he wasn't providing. (It wasn't even a kink, she just loves cunnilingus and he wasn't into it)... and anyway, he threw a fit and they broke up.
We still laugh about it today, though. Cuz he wanted extra on the side but he couldnt handle her wanting other party to service her needs.
Also, Australian here, and I'm glad we have it sort of legalized here. There's still problems with the trade, but I think some protections are available. Baby steps, I guess :|
Although, funnily, my friend broke up over this. The guy asked if she was going to be okay if he went and saw some sex workers cuz he wanted sex more frequently than she did. My friend replied that she was gonna be okay as long as she also can do same. Turned out that she loves a certain kink that he wasn't providing. (It wasn't even a kink, she just loves cunnilingus and he wasn't into it)... and anyway, he threw a fit and they broke up.
We still laugh about it today, though. Cuz he wanted extra on the side but he couldnt handle her wanting other party to service her needs.
Also, Australian here, and I'm glad we have it sort of legalized here. There's still problems with the trade, but I think some protections are available. Baby steps, I guess :|
IISANDERII
Member
I wouldn't introduce him to my sister, so I suppose the answer is Yes.
Who cares? As long as he isn't purposefully seeking out underaged girls, and not hurting anyone, I don't see the problem.
It's ridiculous that this shit isn't legal, by the way.
Care to explain?
In the long run, a prostitute is far cheaper than any kind of long-term relationship, even when used fairly regularly.
DR2K
Banned
Any parts of the world that do this?
Do you honestly believe that the only reason they're having sex with prostitutes is because they're desperate? Really?
On second reading, it seems that you're implying they lost their virginity to escorts? I don't really see the problem with that, either. I sure my first time had been with an experienced woman.
Devolution
Member
How do some people think that business men, athletes, soldiers or even politicians (let's be honest) get sex when they're not at home? Are they merely desperate losers? We are so quick to demonize people who seek sex even though a bunch of people obviously want it and go through a bunch of motions just to get it. It pisses me off how we think we're so progressive but when it comes to sex we're all so judgmental and full of shit.
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