fastford58
Member
This man knows where it's at. Family of 5 here, about $120 a week on groceries. All good stuff, nothing too fancy. We only pull 70K a year combined, but live well enough.
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WSJ: Do you make $400,000 a year but feel broke?
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This man knows where it's at. Family of 5 here, about $120 a week on groceries. All good stuff, nothing too fancy. We only pull 70K a year combined, but live well enough.
Alcoholikaust
Member
edit in my 40 years:I have only once seen 4 grocery carts filled with name brand foods and it only cost about $350.00. that was for a huge party I was throwing
how can you spend $575.00 weekly on groceries- for that kind of money I could eat out at restaurants for every meal for a week-and have money to spare.
how can you spend $575.00 weekly on groceries- for that kind of money I could eat out at restaurants for every meal for a week-and have money to spare.
This. My wife and I tried to buy a house in the city (Toronto), but even the homes we were looking at around $650,000 were in areas of the city that I would not be comfortable raising my kids in.
So, we went to the 'Burbs and got a house for much less but our commute is now more than an hour each way (thankfully I work from home 50% of the time). There are still plenty of homes in our neighbourhood that cost more than $1 million, but they are much larger than ours and several (that I know of) are owned by professional hockey players.
My wife and I would be considered part of the 1% according to the Toronto Life article posted earlier, but we certainly still have struggles financially. I don't believe we have a luxurious lifestyle, but our children certainly have more than I had growing up.
We have two cars, but they are both on loans.
We have nice'ish house, but we still have plenty of work to do on it and I can never seem to keep up with the maintenance.
We go on vacations, but only one relatively extravagant trip a year... and it costs a lot less than $10k.
Our kids do well on birthdays/Christmas, but not nearly as well as those in the WSJ piece.
We buy most of our groceries at No Frills (discount grocery store) but still end up upwards of $200+ a week. Fast growing boys, and enjoying quality meat adds up.
$25,000 a year in home maintenance
$18,000 a year in utilities
$9,000 a year in auto insurance
$30,000 a year for groceries
$25,000 a year for 2 family vacations
$12,000 for "club dues"
I make a decent enough middle class income, and I cant even begin to comprehend spending this type of money for those things. This was one of the most surreal and out of touch things I've ever watched.
$18,000 a year in utilities
$9,000 a year in auto insurance
$30,000 a year for groceries
$25,000 a year for 2 family vacations
$12,000 for "club dues"
I make a decent enough middle class income, and I cant even begin to comprehend spending this type of money for those things. This was one of the most surreal and out of touch things I've ever watched.
How many cars do these people wreck on a yearly basis?
captmcblack
Member
I'm all about living and letting people live, and trying to understand and accept people's perspectives on things (since everyone sees things differently than everyone else - everyone's got their own ways to live life)...but I just don't understand how it could be reasonable (not possible, but reasonable) to have that level of earning power and either be/feel "broke".
Like, all you have to do is not be ridiculous with spending. You pretty much have "fuck you" income at that point. Even if you bought a dope-ass house and 2 cars and had a maid and/or nanny for your 2 kids and had the best internet/cable package, how could you not have anything left earning 500k?
People in here like "well, once you're successful, you gotta do what other people in your income bracket do" like you don't need to not be an idiot with money because you have a lot of it all of a sudden, like personal responsibility is just out the window or something.
Dude.
Like, all you have to do is not be ridiculous with spending. You pretty much have "fuck you" income at that point. Even if you bought a dope-ass house and 2 cars and had a maid and/or nanny for your 2 kids and had the best internet/cable package, how could you not have anything left earning 500k?
People in here like "well, once you're successful, you gotta do what other people in your income bracket do" like you don't need to not be an idiot with money because you have a lot of it all of a sudden, like personal responsibility is just out the window or something.
Dude.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I mean seriously, club dues? Since when has being part of a "club" you have to pay expensive membership for not a cultural signifier of wealth?
It is probably due to the cars they're buying.
I have $150 to get me through the rest of the month gaf, how am I supposed to buy groceries for the week?
aorange999
Member
Its tough to talk about financial things on GAF. This video is obviously click bait but there is a small amount of truth in it especially when it comes to the scale of expenses. Obviously its possible to live much much cheaper but for the average family earning $400 000 a year in NYC, SF, Chicago these costs are pretty much real.
Buying a 1.2 million dollar home isn't done for fun, its basically an equity investment, if you buy at the right time that 1.2 million dollar place becomes a 1.5 million dollar place and you get to live comfortably whilst your money appreciates.
Buying a 1.2 million dollar home isn't done for fun, its basically an equity investment, if you buy at the right time that 1.2 million dollar place becomes a 1.5 million dollar place and you get to live comfortably whilst your money appreciates.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
LMfao. The argument that people have to "live like their class" is the dumbest bullshit ever.
Paying $12,000 in dues keeps out the riff-raff.
I could see in certain states (high taxes, high cost of living), where people making 250k + feel broke because all their money goes out the door in debt (ie. house payment, college, car payments etc.) Unfortunately, a lot of Americans were kind of raised on this idea of having it all. So a lot of folks that get their money pretty much traded it in for debt. 200k is a lot of money, but I see folks in California that pretty much are living pay check to pay check, because they've pretty much signed away all their money to specific things. You shouldn't feel pity for them, because they live a very nice lifestyle. While their paycheck is going instantly out the door to pay other things, they'v essentially upgraded their lifestyle (ie. bigger house, better car, sending their kids to a nicer college etc.). So when someone makes 200k, they aren't actually making 200k profit. A chunk of that is taken by state and federal tax, and everything else they've already committed to.
Ultimately, it's on the individual so spend their money wisely. Unfortunately I think it's pretty common for folks to not do that. Point is, I can kind of see why some people making over an amount of money feel "broke"...but that's really just bad financial decisions. Instead of saving up, or only buying what they need (vs what they want), they end up in a situation where the majority of their pay check is pretty much going somewhere else. But again, you can't feel pit because they are living a great lifestyle. I just can understand why people think they are broke because they don't have actual money saved up or in the bank. But that was their choice.
400k is pretty insane though.
Ultimately, it's on the individual so spend their money wisely. Unfortunately I think it's pretty common for folks to not do that. Point is, I can kind of see why some people making over an amount of money feel "broke"...but that's really just bad financial decisions. Instead of saving up, or only buying what they need (vs what they want), they end up in a situation where the majority of their pay check is pretty much going somewhere else. But again, you can't feel pit because they are living a great lifestyle. I just can understand why people think they are broke because they don't have actual money saved up or in the bank. But that was their choice.
400k is pretty insane though.
Forgotten_Taco
Member
College savings accounts.
Version 3.0
Member
Give me $400k and I don't have to work for at least 5 years, and I'll be living large in my book.
But they're of a different mindset than the rest of us. It might be ignorant, but I don't think it's "wrong".
If anything this should just be a wakeup to people of our lower income brackets. Even if you've got more money, if you aren't smart with it you're going to sit around with a stupid expression on your face "wondering where it all goes". Budgets. Good for you if you're making 40K or 400K.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
If I had been born into this, I'd be full of shit. But because I came from a similar a spot as all those statistics you like to pull, I think I'll believe I know wtf I'm talking about. If I'm one of the chosen few who gets to enjoy it, alright then. There's plenty of room around here for you too..even Worldstar is somehow here.. Come on up.
That's where the click-baity part comes in.
a) This family is living ridiculously comfortable. They are not broke. They're gaining equity through that house.
b) When you're making 400,000$ a year, you have an incredible amount of wiggle room. Being broke means, I'm eating ketchup packets (exaggeration) and still can't pay rent or buy anything.
Yes, the cost of upper class living is probably tough in cities like Chicago or NYC, but to compare that (e.g. being broke while making 400k) to lower/middle class people is just absurd.
Rhomega Beta
Member
Actually, it looks like they're crying because their taxes are going up...except the retired couple, who are still paying $22K a year in taxes.
I spend like $35 a week on groceries. Lots of PB&J sandwiches, soup, etc. for me. :lol I do eat out lunch every day and have poptarts for breakfast though. My wife spends more on hers though since she brings a lunch and is a vegetarian. Total, we're probably around $100-$125 a week on the high end.
Sectorseven
Member
So many people in this thread who can't fathom how you spend $500 a week on food or $25K on vacations shows just how far apart the 99 and 1% really are.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Boo hoo.
I can't help but wonder that while you were going through college and eventually to graduate school, you didn't stop and think that maybe a life in finance/business is going to be very busy?
You obviously did right? So why are you on GAF telling us this "woe-as-me" story? You are out of touch with reality and live in a bubble. I make six figures with no student loans and have a house paid off. I'm probably better off than 99% of GAFers, but unlike you, I have perspective when it comes to the struggle that millions of Americans endure every single day.
I used to be one of them until I used the GI Bill to go back to school and the rest is history.
So you go from sob story to "Fuck you, I got mine. Why don't you work harder like I did?" attitude?
You seriously bought into "live like their class" like Ziltoidia 9 pointed out.
Good point.
As for the content of the article and who it is catering to, this isn't the type of things I would see on the WSJ years ago, albeit I never used their website. It's pure clickbait.
Just by living in Canada the comparison to the article gets very skewed, by the difference in average student debt and health insurance/medical bills between America and Canada alone. Also, no one said the 1% don't ever have to worry about money, just that they have to worry a lot less, which is absolutely true.
Not sure if it works the same in the US, but insurance can vary wildly based on location too. Mine went from $100 to $380 per month moving from northern ontario to toronto, and that's with the absolute cheapest insurance I can get with no coverage on my own vehicle. I blame all the old guys in ferraris around here.
Anyways there are two people very close to me who I'd consider 'rich' but it's hard to tell by their lifestyle aside from the travel they do. My brother uses points cards and coupons more religiously than anybody I've ever met. Although he's not cheap when it comes to helping out family, to the point where he was getting pushy when I told him I could afford my own damn dentist bills heh.
As someone who has frequented Whole Foods about 20,000 times, and that has to be one of the most expensive supermarkets around, I cannot fathom how someone can spend $500 a week on groceries.
It seems that you work too much so you can't afford a lot of enjoyment for yourself. It sucks that money can't buy time really... Now I can fully agree you're not rich.
Midlife Crysis
Neo Member
I'm a " one percenter" -- moderately successful 42 year old partner at a large law firm -- and it's amazing how "un-rich" I feel, Mostly, that's from the expense of setting thousands of dollars aside every month to fund the future college educations of my three kids. Surely, it's also in large part human nature, envying people better of than me, etc.
But at least I have the minimal amount of awareness required to recognize that not feeling rich is totally different from being "broke" plus the sense to know that anyone who isn't making a "mid six figure" income doesn't want (and shouldn't want) to hear any bitching from me
Evidently not everyone at the WSJ is quite so grounded in reality . . . .
But at least I have the minimal amount of awareness required to recognize that not feeling rich is totally different from being "broke" plus the sense to know that anyone who isn't making a "mid six figure" income doesn't want (and shouldn't want) to hear any bitching from me
Evidently not everyone at the WSJ is quite so grounded in reality . . . .AlphaTwo00
Member
Again to nitpick: Toronto as an example, your average auto insurance is $1500 to $2000 per person. It's not 9000, but it's pretty nuts.
Yup. Even neighbourhoods wildly differ. I know that if I lived one street across, it's +500 per year.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I'm a " one percenter" -- moderately successful 42 year old partner at a large law firm -- and it's amazing how "un-rich" I feel, Mostly, that's from the expense of setting thousands of dollars aside every month to fund the future college educations of my three kids. Surely, it's also in large part human nature, envying people better of than me, etc.
But at least I have the minimal amount of awareness required to recognize that not feeling rich is totally different from being "broke" plus the sense to know that anyone who isn't making a "mid six figure" income doesn't want (and shouldn't want) to hear any bitching from me
Thousands of dollars a month? I envy them. I went to a good state university and if my parents had set aside 2k a month for just two years they could have paid for the majority of my tuition
phxxBullet
Banned
Poor rich guys out there.
Wtf spending 30,000$ on grocery a year??
THAT'S more than my mum makes in a year!
Wtf spending 30,000$ on grocery a year??
THAT'S more than my mum makes in a year!
I really can't fathom the vacation thing. I mean sure I guess I could fathom a single 12 and a half thousand dollar vacation for a family of four.... like once. Averaging that? Twice a year? Holy fucking shit on a stick, how? Like, what are you doing? Are you seriously jetting off to fucking paris twice a goddamned year? I'm sitting here like "yeah I'd love to visit europe once in my life," and you're doing it twice a year and bitching about it? Fuck off. I haven't even had a week's vacation in 3 years.
I'm a " one percenter" -- moderately successful 42 year old partner at a large law firm -- and it's amazing how "un-rich" I feel, Mostly, that's from the expense of setting thousands of dollars aside every month to fund the future college educations of my three kids. Surely, it's also in large part human nature, envying people better of than me, etc.
But at least I have the minimal amount of awareness required to recognize that not feeling rich is totally different from being "broke" plus the sense to know that anyone who isn't making a "mid six figure" income doesn't want (and shouldn't want) to hear any bitching from me
You're able to put asides thousands of dollars a month for your kids and you feel "unrich"... alright then.
IISANDERII
Member
AbsolutBro
Member
It's because you came from a similar spot as those statistics that I'd think you can now recognize you are no longer there. I would think that, and apparently be wrong. Just the fact that your family has the (well earned) money to actually go on vacation should be enough to show that you've moved out of that class.
I'm from a middle class family. 2 working parents, 4 kids. When my parents split up, we lived below the poverty line for awhile. Like "my mom didn't eat dinner so her kids would have enough food" below the poverty line. I started working at 16. I worked three jobs to put myself through college, still came out with a load of (slowly paid down) college debt. I took a federal job knowing the pay would never be "rich", because I knew the benefits of a pension AND retirement plan are virtually impossible to find elsewhere. I'm fine with that decision. I can afford decent things, I love living on my farm. But I'm able to recognize that I am no longer in the same boat as people who have to decide if it's dinner or the gas bill. I'm able to recognize that while a sizable medical emergency could sink me, at least I am able to save for the future.
Does that make me better than the people below me? No.
Do I wish that the people below me would/could get out of those circumstances? Absolutely.
Do I think I'm "the same as those people"? No. I have the luxury, for instance, of not wondering where my next meal will come from. I have the luxury of knowing I'll be okay when I want to retire.
Everyone has issues. Every family has problems. We all have to eat, we all need a place to live. But that doesn't make everyone the same as everyone else. Those simple struggles don't unite us more than the differences separate us. You said you don't always get to go on vacations with your family. Meanwhile some families barely get to eat dinner together because the parents are working separate schedules just to keep food on the table. You work long hours at a job you love and enjoy. Meanwhile others work long hours at a job (or multiple jobs) they hate, because at least it's a job.
WarMacheen
Member
Maybe they should invest in bootstraps
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Honestly that seems excessive even for 400k. My parents average between 100-120k most years and they can just about manage dropping 2000 on one big family trip to Florida or Colorado once a year. And yeah, I recognize that that's more luxurious than the majority of people even manage
Watched the video. It's definitely assuming on the high side of things but it's completely plausable to me that you can make 400k and feel like you're just doing "ok".
Housing costs are huge, property taxes, child care... crazy. So yeah I dont make quite 400 but I feel like I'm not rich at all. I could step down to a smaller, lower priced house in a district where the schools arent as good and a longer commute. Put one kid is a cheaper daycare center, and then I'd have plenty of $$$ saved but.. I'd rather do it this way.
Housing costs are huge, property taxes, child care... crazy. So yeah I dont make quite 400 but I feel like I'm not rich at all. I could step down to a smaller, lower priced house in a district where the schools arent as good and a longer commute. Put one kid is a cheaper daycare center, and then I'd have plenty of $$$ saved but.. I'd rather do it this way.
block tower
Member
its amazing to read what some people on Gaf waste money on. "i strive to make more money so i can buy overpriced liqour and meats". never change.
Ingueferroque
Banned
It's their life and their money..
Midlife Crysis
Neo Member
I went to a decent state school too and paid my own debts. I've got no idea where kids are going to go but could be preposterously expensive private universities in U.S.. Need to fund it now since I have no idea if I'll be making a similar income later (law firm practice = really good gig but it ain't tenured etc) Obviously, I could help them less -- or have them pay their own way but I've chosen to help them. Of course living that choice may make feel un-rich but doesn't and shouldn't make me complain about feeling "broke. "
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Poor people can't afford to own a home. So while you can say that housing and property taxes are a pain in the ass - they allow you to own a giant asset that will probably one day be your retirement. It also affords you a giant amount of equity to play with should some urgent matter that requires a ton of money comes up.
Child care is another thing poor people can't afford. So you either find a family member or friend willing to watch your kid for a day or you work less so you can watch them, which in turn makes you poorer.
hydragonwarrior
Member
400k... but maybe that's needed to live in NYC or San Fran
But earning only 1/8th of that is my reality
But earning only 1/8th of that is my reality
If you want to put your kids in a good school, fine, I can respect that in a way. It's still a big luxury, but whatever. I don't know your choices or anything, but in a case like this video why step down to a smaller house and change schools when you could just not fucking buy a brand new insane luxury car every 4 years. A car is a goddamned car. Buy something nice, and it'll take you to the same places. Replace it a little more than every 4 fucking years. Boom instant HUGE savings coupled with the fact that the insurance is no longer 9 grand.
Honestly, I think the house is by far the least of this family's problems.
Sakura
Member
I make $50,000/year living on my own and probably spend a good quarter of that on videogames and good beer and single-malt scotch, and I still manage to save money, eat well, and live like a god-damned king. How in the sweet hell do you earn $400,000/year and have any trouble with your finances outside of a huge crack/cocaine addiction!?
Do these people not understand the concept of a budget at all?
If I was earning $400,000/year, I'd be retired with a steady, labour-free income of $100,000/year in less than a decade.
Christ, people astound me with how little they understand how to make their money work for them.
Do these people not understand the concept of a budget at all?
If I was earning $400,000/year, I'd be retired with a steady, labour-free income of $100,000/year in less than a decade.
Christ, people astound me with how little they understand how to make their money work for them.
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