Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
My goodness heath I am messing with you
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WSJ: Nintendo Begins Distributing Software Kit for NX (Console + Handheld units)
- Thread starter killercow
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Graphics Horse
Member
I wonder if Mojang have kits.
James Scott
Banned
I remember being excited for Rayman 3D. We didn't get any footage for awhile outside of a low red thumbnail. From the title I thought it was a new game or a port of 3, pretty disappointed when it turned out to be 2 again...for 40 bucks
Really hope 3rd parties try this time or for them to not even bother. Cubic Ninja caused Nintendo a lot more issues than it was worth. I think nothing good came from Ubi on the 3DS at launch outside of a sub par Advance Wars clone and then...nothing else I think?
Wii U fared better but Ubisoft Ubisoft-ed their launch games (ZombiU lacking polish, AC3 being AC3)
A lot of other titles being late and not as good as the 360 versions certainly didn't help matters out.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Yes but Notch threw his pillow on it.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
I know one audience Nintendo can really capture with NX though and thats if EA plays along and thats home console sports games on a handheld. Alot of people I know that wanted to play Madden or 2K on a portable were pretty dissapointed when 2K never happened on Vita and when Madden stopped being made for it. I bet money plenty people on operation sports forum would get the handheld if they could play those games.
wtf is operation sports forum
A gaming sports forum. Has 750K members. Surprised you never heard of it.
Just googled it
Operation Sports is the leading sports video game site.
Stax.
The potential change in how they work with 3rd-parties according to the dev portal information is something being chronically overlooked.
Documentation and support issues are something that any actual developer on GAF has complained about time and again. If there's something being done in that arena, I have to take that as a strong sign that Nintendo is making some really big changes.
Speak for yourself. And it's tough to know what they'll do with it price-wise, at this point.
Yes, because we have so many examples of the same games on Nintendo hardwa..... OH WAIT.
This broken argument would work if there was ever a time when 3rd-parties actually gave Nintendo owners a routinely equivalent experience. And the times they did? Yeah, guess what, for the userbase that Gamecube had, they sold rather well.
Nintendo's games themselves put it outside the realm of being a "similar machine". But the solution to that issue is marketing. Sony and MS do their marketing in very similar ways to one another. All it will take is some way to distinguish NX in marketing, and that's how it will be perceived. Simple, as long as someone with the right chops can execute on that.
Nothing in hardware design is "by accident".
But more to the point, if their vision is more 3rd-party support that earns them customers, then yeah, parity with PS4 will be EXACTLY what they want.
This has been my argument for a whiel, that they want 3rd-parties in Japan to look at NX and go "look, finally we can have a multiplatform console environment in Japan, too! No more wasting resources on a regional player like Microsoft, we can sell our multi-platform releases everywhere, including at home." Because Japan hasn't really had that, and a true multiplatform environment might be what gives the console market in Japan a needed shot in the arm that Nintendo will easily benefit from on more than one front.
Demographics can easily change and have many times in the past. And in this case, especially, when Japan gains a multiplatform option that they haven't ever really had before and 3rd-parties in Japan start gambling on Nintendo, bets are off as to where consumers will go, especially with PS4 not exactly lighting Japan on fire.
That may be the case here, but Japan doesn't NEARLY stigmatize Nintendo for that as much as we do. Hence why I believe that's where their "in" is.
Well, the only way to get another type of audience is to do something different than they have for the last 10-15 years, wouldn't you say?
Heaven forbid that Nintendo should attempt to offer something more palatable to more people instead of begging for scraps on the street corner like they have been with Wii U.
THE NERVE OF THEM.
Sony has hinted at no such thing. And they want the money that comes with a longer generation to make their books look better.
It's a great start, and another sign that they're finally trying to be forward-thinking. It's a very positive thing that isn't seeing much attention here.
I found this amusing, since in the same post, you called someone out for believing in unsubstantiated bullshit.
It depends on how they scale, both in graphics and in logic (AI and such).
Yeah, why try to change the situation when they can hope things change while doing absolutely nothing to make that change happen? That'd be a sure-fire way for that to work.
Again, see the Japan situation. There's PLENTY of incentive for the risk to be taken.
Nah, most of this seemed choreographed well in advance.
Again with the nihilism from you.
Or cash in their chips with Japanese 3rd-parties and use that to leverage further interest from the necessary demographic.
Microsoft can't cut XBO short, that will put them at 1 for 3 in terms of support for their platforms and they can't risk the bad press, at this point, nor the expense that will put them through.
You basically described a no-win scenario that would lead to Nintendo's slow and painful demise. You'll forgive people for taking on the fanboyish "and then they'll become 3rd-party" onto it for good measure.
If they see the opportunity to look more appealing than Wii U, they'll take it in a heartbeat.
Considering the non-1st party games that dominated E3 this year were a JRPG and a niche Japanese action game? Yeah, I think it's doable.
Documentation and support issues are something that any actual developer on GAF has complained about time and again. If there's something being done in that arena, I have to take that as a strong sign that Nintendo is making some really big changes.
Speak for yourself. And it's tough to know what they'll do with it price-wise, at this point.
Yes, because we have so many examples of the same games on Nintendo hardwa..... OH WAIT.
This broken argument would work if there was ever a time when 3rd-parties actually gave Nintendo owners a routinely equivalent experience. And the times they did? Yeah, guess what, for the userbase that Gamecube had, they sold rather well.
Nintendo's games themselves put it outside the realm of being a "similar machine". But the solution to that issue is marketing. Sony and MS do their marketing in very similar ways to one another. All it will take is some way to distinguish NX in marketing, and that's how it will be perceived. Simple, as long as someone with the right chops can execute on that.
Nothing in hardware design is "by accident".
But more to the point, if their vision is more 3rd-party support that earns them customers, then yeah, parity with PS4 will be EXACTLY what they want.
This has been my argument for a whiel, that they want 3rd-parties in Japan to look at NX and go "look, finally we can have a multiplatform console environment in Japan, too! No more wasting resources on a regional player like Microsoft, we can sell our multi-platform releases everywhere, including at home." Because Japan hasn't really had that, and a true multiplatform environment might be what gives the console market in Japan a needed shot in the arm that Nintendo will easily benefit from on more than one front.
Demographics can easily change and have many times in the past. And in this case, especially, when Japan gains a multiplatform option that they haven't ever really had before and 3rd-parties in Japan start gambling on Nintendo, bets are off as to where consumers will go, especially with PS4 not exactly lighting Japan on fire.
That may be the case here, but Japan doesn't NEARLY stigmatize Nintendo for that as much as we do. Hence why I believe that's where their "in" is.
Well, the only way to get another type of audience is to do something different than they have for the last 10-15 years, wouldn't you say?
Heaven forbid that Nintendo should attempt to offer something more palatable to more people instead of begging for scraps on the street corner like they have been with Wii U.
THE NERVE OF THEM.
Sony has hinted at no such thing. And they want the money that comes with a longer generation to make their books look better.
It's a great start, and another sign that they're finally trying to be forward-thinking. It's a very positive thing that isn't seeing much attention here.
I found this amusing, since in the same post, you called someone out for believing in unsubstantiated bullshit.
It depends on how they scale, both in graphics and in logic (AI and such).
Yeah, why try to change the situation when they can hope things change while doing absolutely nothing to make that change happen? That'd be a sure-fire way for that to work.
Again, see the Japan situation. There's PLENTY of incentive for the risk to be taken.
Nah, most of this seemed choreographed well in advance.
Again with the nihilism from you.
Or cash in their chips with Japanese 3rd-parties and use that to leverage further interest from the necessary demographic.
Microsoft can't cut XBO short, that will put them at 1 for 3 in terms of support for their platforms and they can't risk the bad press, at this point, nor the expense that will put them through.
You basically described a no-win scenario that would lead to Nintendo's slow and painful demise. You'll forgive people for taking on the fanboyish "and then they'll become 3rd-party" onto it for good measure.
If they see the opportunity to look more appealing than Wii U, they'll take it in a heartbeat.
Considering the non-1st party games that dominated E3 this year were a JRPG and a niche Japanese action game? Yeah, I think it's doable.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Something you probably dont know if you dont play sports games. I was a member there before here actually.
Fess
Member
That's what happened in the past when the consoles has had different types of technical shortcomings, but why would that happen if the console is more powerful than the others, have online capabilities, a normal controller and is easy to port to? What would the excuse be to drop the support?
Personally I just can't see that happening unless they once again launch a console so different and/or weak that it's not worth the time and effort to make the games running on it. Playstation and Xbox came from nowhere with no prior support and yet they both did great, is Nintendo's past failures so big that it's just not possible to see them doing great even if they make a great product?
The weirdest excuse is when third party devs claim that Nintendo's customers don't buy third party games.
Well, if a multiplat game is delayed and/or badly ported to one system, why exactly would it sell as much as the other versions?
Maybe if they would try to not gimp or delay the games they would sell better?
:/
neogaffer1
Banned
saw one of those in high school.
Neff
Member
Exciting.
It does apppear that way. Every big decision Nintendo has made over the last year or two, and the morsels of NX info trickling out seems to be a direct reaction to any number of problems suffered as a result of Wii U. It really did kick them in the balls, but they're maneuvering aggressively to meet or possibly even succeed expectations. Their ability to adapt effectively, smoothly and swiftly (when they need to) is one of Nintendo's strongest qualities as a business and it's one which I think is often underestimated.
Also I've just noticed how prominent SvCC Red Arremer's junk is. Thanks.
It does apppear that way. Every big decision Nintendo has made over the last year or two, and the morsels of NX info trickling out seems to be a direct reaction to any number of problems suffered as a result of Wii U. It really did kick them in the balls, but they're maneuvering aggressively to meet or possibly even succeed expectations. Their ability to adapt effectively, smoothly and swiftly (when they need to) is one of Nintendo's strongest qualities as a business and it's one which I think is often underestimated.
Also I've just noticed how prominent SvCC Red Arremer's junk is. Thanks.
To Far Away Times
Member
Let's say that hypothetically the NX is a powerful console and launches with noticeably more power than the PS4 and Xbox, 3 to 4 years into their lifecycle. Does that push Sony and MS to hit the reset button early?
It's not in Sony's interest to do so (they'll want to ride the PS4 as long as possible I'm sure), but it might be in Microsoft's.
But if Nintendo and MS both do it, that would have to force Sony's hand, right?
It's not in Sony's interest to do so (they'll want to ride the PS4 as long as possible I'm sure), but it might be in Microsoft's.
But if Nintendo and MS both do it, that would have to force Sony's hand, right?
Obliterator
Member
Nintendo alone switching to a more powerful console wont force them to upgrade. As exciting as all of this potentially is lets be honest, Ninteno has an uphill battle ahead of them to gain market share after the disastrous Wii U performance.
Now if MS decided to jump the gun as well then that would force things considerably. I don't think Sony need to worry about that though as I think this generation will only be 5 years long anyways. We are already going on halfway through
Anybody remember "Iwata's List of 700 things that need fixing within Nintendo"? Would have been cool to get a look at that. I bet most of this stuff was covered. Change takes time, though.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=392588&highlight=iwata+s+list
I still think it'll be 5 or 6 years, but still shorter than the 7 and 8 years.of last gen. I could see MS pulling the trigger on a next-gen Xbox with Rift support in 2018, and specs well above what Oculus has recommended.
Obliterator
Member
Yeah 6 is possible as well but no way this gen is longer than that. Sony themselves have basically said as much
Roland1979
Junior Member
Me too, got the junior bestowed upon me and it's been there ever since. Maybe you can have it removed if you message a mod, but i felt like that would be whining. It's just a tag.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
This is why I don't make threads very often.
Sony or Microsoft releasing a new console wouldn't really end the generation anyway. It's far more likely that the next hardware from the both of them will be more iterative than any other hardware transition, and we're likely to have an even longer crossgen period than we did this time around. A new Xbox or Playstation in the next 3/4 years (which I think is unlikely) would not stop most third parties from supporting the PS4 and Xbox One for a long time.
If Nintendo do put out a console with specs that don't prevent easy ports of games targeting PS4/Xbox One, any third party support that they are able to secure would likely endure beyond the release of the PS5/Xbox Two.
By the time any crossgen period is winding down for the net generation of Sony/MS consoles, Nintendo would probably be preparing their new hardware too.
If Nintendo do put out a console with specs that don't prevent easy ports of games targeting PS4/Xbox One, any third party support that they are able to secure would likely endure beyond the release of the PS5/Xbox Two.
By the time any crossgen period is winding down for the net generation of Sony/MS consoles, Nintendo would probably be preparing their new hardware too.
Huh, never heard of it. I mean I don't play sports games but if it's really a big site for a gaming genre as popular and ubiquitous as sports you'd think it would get mentioned on gaming sites more frequently.
Oh absolutely, I expect Nintendo to focus on aspects of the Japanese market first and foremost, as they always typically have, and that's still where they shine. I'm just saying that they'll need to treat the Western markets as more than a mere afterthought like they have been in order to be a success globally, and that means differing strategies when it comes to third-parties and advertising (especially advertising, dear lord).
Yeah, I believe the quote was more along the lines of "Consumers expect a console to at least have a life-span of five years", which only indicates a minimum time frame for Sony's expected life of the PS4. But even I don't think Sony's gonna release the PS5 three years from now.
To be honest, I expect the generation to be about as long as last gen, and maybe with an even longer transition period. Major AAA games are getting more expensive and taking even longer to produce, and a five year timeline just doesn't mesh well with the both time needed to develop, release these games and have a sizable library. The PS4 and Xbox One are just now starting to hit their stride, it seems, and it's already been about two years since both systems came out.
And with that in mind, it would make sense for Nintendo to release the NX platform next year, as it gives them plenty of time within this generation to release NX 2.0 down the line when PS5 and Xbox ??? decide to show up and build a library.
Iwata stated that not paying enough attention to trends in the west was a big issue with the Wii U so I would think that's getting a bigger focus this time around.
Obliterator
Member
This generation will be 5 to 6 years long. Thats really all there is to it. We only had an abnormally long generation last time out due to the huge losses taken in the early 360 and PS3 years.
Not to mention 3rd parties will demand it. They were pretty angry at how long last gen dragged out
Sony and EA predict shorter console life cycle this generation
http://www.kitguru.net/gaming/matth...t-shorter-console-life-cycle-this-generation/
December 2nd, 2013
However:
Although the Microsoft guy said that at within a couple weeks of the start of this gen, before PS4 had solidified such a lead.
Then in the middle of last year:
'Microsoft job posts: Xbox industrial designer for next gen + software engineer'
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=852430
At least one already did:
Ubisoft: Don't wait 7 years to launch PS5
http://www.kitguru.net/gaming/matth...t-shorter-console-life-cycle-this-generation/
December 2nd, 2013
However:
Although the Microsoft guy said that at within a couple weeks of the start of this gen, before PS4 had solidified such a lead.
Then in the middle of last year:
'Microsoft job posts: Xbox industrial designer for next gen + software engineer'
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=852430
At least one already did:
Ubisoft: Don't wait 7 years to launch PS5
Obliterator
Member
Ubisoft as well
http://kotaku.com/5963024/ubisoft-b...le-generation-doesnt-last-as-long-as-this-one
6 years is the max life span on this generation of hardware, possibly 5
I certainly hope so. They'll definitely need to change a few things to avoid another Wii U situation, so I guess we'll see once we actually get more details on the platform.
Huh. Well, perhaps it won't be as long as last gen, but I definitely don't see it being as short as five years. In any case, I think there will be a fairly decent transition period of cross-gen games, and Nintendo would be smart to use that as an advantage. But that involves getting third parties on board first.
Yeah I knew about Ubisoft (was editing my post on the last page).
Fess
Member
Hard to say. They can't really start the hype war like they did when DC launched early because it's simply too early for that and it might hurt the sales of PS4.
But I definitely think they need to counter N somehow or many enthusiasts might jump ship, either by focusing more on PSVR, which could work as a stop-gap console kind of and let the VR focus help PS4 ride out the generation as planned, or by simply switch gear and shorten the generation.
The NX launch won't go by unnoticed anyhow and it wouldn't surprise me if even the early NX talk right now is a hot topic at the board meetings. I don't think they'll bother copying anything N does this time though like they did with motion controls and maybe even the touch pad, N isn't the juggernaught they once were, Sony is leading the pack this time. Actually, it isn't unlikely that it is N who is studying Sony for hints how to get it right this time, maybe we'll see some smart Sony tech Nintendofied somehow in NX? The background install and being able to start playing before it's all installed would be a welcome surprise.
Pancakes R Us
Member
I really don't think Sony needs to worry about their enthusiasts jumping ship to NX. If anything, Nintendo systems are complimentary to Sony ones.
That's why i expect Sony's next console is gonna be BC with the same architecture i feel. As long as AMD holds on until then, and gets those Zen cores out in time, it'll be easy to just jump on that type of upgraded SoC without having to worry about starting over from zero in terms of library and ecosystem.
You're thinking of Red Arremer's groin. By all accounts, he is junk-less.
The end of the Wii lifecycle was the kick in the balls, but it was too late for Nintendo to change course with Wii U and had to try and make the best of the bag they left themselves holding.
Hence why changes started rolling out at Nintendo almost immediately after launch. They knew what they were going to do, but knew it required a LOT of foundational prep work.
Those "huge losses" are still there. They didn't evaporate as soon as they were put on paper.
Sony is touting the PlayStation brand as a primary financial pillar in a time when their financials are really not impressing anyone. Even in the PS2 days, they really weren't making money hand over fist with the brand. Couple that with their recent apparent exit from the handheld space and them blaming "the market" for their own shortcomings there, they really need to show PlayStation is a year-over-year money-maker, so they will drag this out for as long as they can, because you risk losing the top spot every time you hit the reset button and start angling for a new generation.
And Microsoft? Well, Nadella may be behind it, but Microsoft's shareholders were already unhappy with the Xbox money-sink. 2 out of 3 hardware releases cut prematurely will signal to their shareholders that they don't have the chops to make a dent in the market the way that they're approaching it, and wasting time on game consoles when Apple is poised to take the living room via a different angle isn't going to endear the brand to the people invested in Microsoft. So they're also stuck between a rock and a hard place there and need to show the brand can at least make money.
The years of loss-leading they engaged in have finally come back to haunt them both, and that means the nature of how they operate in this business is going to change. You don't build something with the express purpose to make money and then unnecessarily short-change yourself by cutting its viability shorter than necessary.
Sony and Microsoft don't work for 3rd-parties, nor are they charities and marketing men in the UK at Sony aren't calling the shots as to how long the platform is viable to Sony as a company.
If it's financially viable for them to ride this gen out, they'll do it all over again and make more money than they likely did in the previous 2 generations combined to make their shareholders happy.
You'll have to explain how they're complimentary to me, because puzzling out the logic of it is making my brain hurt.
No, it really REALLY didn't. PowerPC was already long dead in the consumer electronics industry by the time Nintendo would have even considered it. Unless you're talking about the network server industry, and even then, the POWER architecture used there isn't the same as PowerPC.
Fess
Member
Is there a market for this now though? Personally I'm not all that interested in carry around a big and bulky handheld with a small screen and crappy ergonomics to play Skyrim on. The WiiU GamePad is nice to hold and has a decent size on the screen, I've used the Off TV functionality a lot because of this, just laying on my back in the sofa gaming. But I'm not interested to go outside with a device like that in my pocket or bag, both the 3DSXL and Vita are way too big too. So for the handheld I'd rather see them go tiny and just get me to play some minimalistic versions of the games on the console, kind of like Dragon Quest XI on 3DS on the lower screen vs the upper screen. Otherwise I'd rather see them evolve Off TV Play for a big and ergonomic handheld with a great screen just to use at home.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
I dont think there is, well not big atleast. Even what I was saying before about sports titles its untapped right now but its not big and never going to be big.
fabricated backlash
Member
Nice revisionist history. I don't expect the NX to be a powerhouse but this statement is just plain wrong.
neogaffer1
Banned
this fud again? wasn't true back then, isn't true now. it was a single group of investors that formed a tiny minority that made a fuss over xbox based on the faulty assumption that android royalties were hiding huge losses from xbox.
back then, the xbox brand was interwoven with all of ms's stuff--xbox music, xbox video, xbox on windows phone, etc. so spinning it off made no sense as they'd have to rebrand a bunch of stuff. now, they're making GFWL 2.0 under xbox branding, xbox is being used to sell hololens to consumers, they're doubling down on surface and lumia as consumer-level hardware and are tying xbox into it (surface book has a dGPU with a driver "made by the Xbox team" and they used GeOW to sell it at the reveal event). I mean, they spent $2 billion on Minecraft and you think their investors would want them to drop their main Gaming division, the division that's making the most out of that investment?
Has NX broken the laws of physics yet while I was sleeping? Or it waits until it bends also the economics?
That demo that runs better that latest intel and a powerful gpu, is that still considered a sane rumour? An APU with a starting price of at least $600-$700 when Nintendo struggles to sell $250-$300 hardware sounds about right. Or maybe they rented some of that pre-launch Xbone cloud?
That demo that runs better that latest intel and a powerful gpu, is that still considered a sane rumour? An APU with a starting price of at least $600-$700 when Nintendo struggles to sell $250-$300 hardware sounds about right. Or maybe they rented some of that pre-launch Xbone cloud?
I was just watching the IGN video "What We Know About Wii 2/Project Café... So Far" from April 2011.
http://www.ign.com/videos/2011/04/30/what-we-know-about-wii-2project-caf-so-far
Pretty funny hearing them talk about the rumored alternative names. Also, seeing their illustration of the controller, talking about hardware specs (misspoke about the CPU being Intel), etc and trying to understand how it would work.
http://www.ign.com/videos/2011/04/30/what-we-know-about-wii-2project-caf-so-far
Pretty funny hearing them talk about the rumored alternative names. Also, seeing their illustration of the controller, talking about hardware specs (misspoke about the CPU being Intel), etc and trying to understand how it would work.
Fess
Member
Only because the last two Nintendo consoles has been too great for first party games to ignore them but too weak/weird for multiplats. Wii and WiiU to some degree has been great secondary consoles.
But if NX is powerful and get the best versions of multiplats and have the usual great first party Nintendo titles too, why wouldn't Sony have to fear NX?
PdotMichael
Banned
Souped version of the handheld version to stuff that exceeds cutting edge hardware. Pick your poison. Sanity is only for the weak.
And don't forget even with the cutting edge nonsense, there is still a shared library. So the handheld will operate with two Titans.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
I remember one video they made like a fake Wii U based on a PC and was playing some game on it I can remember.. metro? At like 1080p saying this is where the Wii U would be lol
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