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WSJ: Nintendo Begins Distributing Software Kit for NX (Console + Handheld units)

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What CPU microarchitecture do they want to use anyway? x86 is a given considering that there aren't any viable alternatives anymore and another AMD deal is all but confirmed. But that doesn't leave Nintendo with very good options, does it? I mean, AMD's current, Bulldozer-derived microarchitectures are definitely not "industry leading chips", but a) outdated and b) have always kinda sucked. And Zen probably won't be ready if they're planning to launch in either late 2016 or early 2017, especially not for affordable mass market devices such as consoles.

I'm going to be very disappointed if they're just going to go down the Xbone/PS4 route and use Jaguar / Puma cores, but what other options are there?

You're assuming that they're going to use x86, which is not happening. What's apparent is that Nintendo are going to be using similar architectures between handheld and console for the NX, and that's pretty much why they're going to be using ARM - x86 is unsuited for portable devices, and ARM is is pretty much just as widely supported these days as x86 is. It won't be hard for Nintendo to get a good AMD ARM processor that beats out Jaguar.
 
Someone go PM Rösti
I read Steve Rabin's patent this past Thursday. It's not wildly exciting, it deals with classifications for social units (players) and software. For example, a classification for a player could be "hardcore gamer" while a classification for "software" could be "memory handler".

However, the patent features quite a lot information about a particular processor featuring at least three cores.

Was there a thread created for the patent?
 
You're assuming that they're going to use x86, which is not happening. What's apparent is that Nintendo are going to be using similar architectures between handheld and console for the NX, and that's pretty much why they're going to be using ARM - x86 is unsuited for portable devices, and ARM is is pretty much just as widely supported these days as x86 is. It won't be hard for Nintendo to get a good AMD ARM processor that beats out Jaguar.

I wonder if there's a chance the NX could have AMD ARM K12 cores. Would those be too expensive?

Edit: Nevermind, apparently those were pushed to 2017 in favor of getting Zen to market faster.
 
You're assuming that they're going to use x86, which is not happening. What's apparent is that Nintendo are going to be using similar architectures between handheld and console for the NX, and that's pretty much why they're going to be using ARM - x86 is unsuited for portable devices, and ARM is is pretty much just as widely supported these days as x86 is. It won't be hard for Nintendo to get a good AMD ARM processor that beats out Jaguar.

Over 2/3 of mobile devices are ARM. And the market for those is noticeable huge.
 
You're thinking

Those "huge losses" are still there. They didn't evaporate as soon as they were put on paper.

The PS4 has been profitable since the day it launched.

These consoles were designed completely different than last gen. They were built using cheaper parts for the purpose of making cash faster and earlier in the generation so they can refresh hardware faster. Also X86 architecture to ensure backwards compatibility.

Every single sign points to a 5 or 6 year gen.
 
Over 2/3 of mobile devices are ARM. And the market for those is noticeable huge.

Exactly. With demand comes mass production to provide supply, and that reduces prices, ensuring that Nintendo can probably get a very good deal. Along with that, an ARM processor plus an OS based off Android would basically ensure that, on the engine side of things, devs can't really use the architecture as an excuse for not porting over to the NX.
 
There is no good user base for 3rd party game sales in Nintendo platforms which has been proved from their last two consoles
Sales were bad for a reason. Their last two consoles were too weak and weird, I'd say that the third party devs never really bothered making good ports and the few that were good were often delayed, the user base was probably there from day 1 waiting patiently for great games to arrive but very few showed up.

Well-optimized third party games released side-by-side PS4/XB1 versions on a powerful Nintendo console with port-friendly controls should get another fate.
 
The PS4 has been profitable since the day it launched.

These consoles were designed completely different than last gen. They were built using cheaper parts for the purpose of making cash faster and earlier in the generation so they can refresh hardware faster. Also X86 architecture to ensure backwards compatibility.

Every single sign points to a 5 or 6 year gen.

Ps4 wasn't profitable at launch. It just wasn't sinking 2 or 300 dollars per box.
 
Why is everyone now saying that Nintendo should have a two year console cycle now?

I don't want Nintendo to become Apple, i have an original 3DS & it's the best version imo, it is small enough to fit in the pocket for a start, i do not have any other 3DS versions as there is no point, all this two year cycle would do is split the user-base unless the system is compromised to play the previous versions games.

There would also be no guarantee that you will get a said game that would work on whatever system you have, everyone is saying Nintendo should push Zelda over to the NX, well what about WiiU owners?

If it Nintendo are going to go the short cycle option then people may as well just skip every other generation.

I cannot believe people are seriously suggesting this as a good idea, i would be interested to know how many suggesting short cycles currently a WiiU.

Yeah, I am not buying a new console every two years from anyone. These systems are not meant to be something you toss to the side for something new that fast, Jesus Christ.
 
Ps4 wasn't profitable at launch. It just wasn't sinking 2 or 300 dollars per box.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/05/23/sony-hirai-ps4-profit/
http://www.engadget.com/2015/07/30/sony-earnings-playstation-mobile/

Sony president Kaz Hirai said the PS4 was "already contributing profit on a hardware unit basis, establishing a very different business framework from that of previous platform businesses."

Making money with the console itself in less than 6 months after release doesn't appear to be that big of a money sink.
 
Sales were bad for a reason. Their last two consoles were too weak and weird, I'd say that the third party devs never really bothered making good ports and the few that were good were often delayed, the user base was probably there from day 1 waiting patiently for great games to arrive but very few showed up.

Well-optimized third party games released side-by-side PS4/XB1 versions on a powerful Nintendo console with port-friendly controls should get another fate.

Hardware wasn't an issue with the Gamecube yet it missed out on some of the biggest third party titles of that gen. Hardware is irrelevant. Nintendo has to prove that their is an audience for their platform outside of Nintendo and family friendly games. A new GPU is not going to minimize the investment risk for third parties.
 
Hardware wasn't an issue with the Gamecube yet it missed out on some of the biggest third party titles of that gen. Hardware is irrelevant. Nintendo has to prove that their is an audience for their platform outside of Nintendo and family friendly games. A new GPU is not going to minimize the investment risk for third parties.

Is a combination of providing the right hardware for the third parties and to improve the relationship with all kinds of deals.

It's not that Nintendo doesn't do that already successful with Japanese developers all the time. There is just something that stopped them of doing it with American and European companies.
 
Hardware wasn't an issue with the Gamecube yet it missed out on some of the biggest third party titles of that gen. Hardware is irrelevant. Nintendo has to prove that their is an audience for their platform outside of Nintendo and family friendly games. A new GPU is not going to minimize the investment risk for third parties.

I feel like there's a loop of people who go

"But the GameCube!"

No. The GameCube was weird too.

- tiny disks
- couldn't play DVDs
- weird controller
- odd design (remember all the lunch box/purse memes?)

The GameCube was closer to a traditional system but still had odd Nintendo quirks that can push the mainstream away.
 
So many people in here saying what "will" or "won't" ever happen like they know shit. If you're an insider, give us something, or stop prognosticating.
 
Is a combination of providing the right hardware for the third parties and to improve the relationship with all kinds of deals.

It's not that Nintendo doesn't do that already successful with Japanese developers all the time. There is just something that stopped them of doing it with American and European companies.

Yeah it's really both but for Nintendo I don't believe hardware alone is going to solve anything.

I feel like there's a loop of people who go

"But the GameCube!"

No. The GameCube was weird too.

- tiny disks
- couldn't play DVDs
- weird controller
- odd design (remember all the lunch box/purse memes?)

The GameCube was closer to a traditional system but still had odd Nintendo quirks that can push the mainstream away.

Grand Theft Auto III could fit on a PC CD-ROM yet Rockstar still didn't support it. If the PS2 had all those quirks third parties wouldn't have batted an eye. Third party support is a issue for Nintendo that has been cultivating in the last twenty years and it goes much deeper than just their hardware choices..
 
The other thing to keep in mind when comparing with the Gamecube era is that Sony was in a super-dominant position, Microsoft was throwing money around left and right, and the costs of developing a game were much less.

In 2016 the costs of development are so much that you need to release on as many platforms as possible, and porting between PS4/XB1/PC is a relatively easy task.
 
Yeah it's really both but for Nintendo I don't believe hardware alone is going to solve anything.



Grand Theft Auto III could fit on a PC CD-ROM yet Rockstar still didn't support it. If the PS2 had all those quirks third parties wouldn't have batted an eye. Third party support is a issue for Nintendo that has been cultivating in the last twenty years and it goes much deeper than just their hardware choices..

GTA is a really bad example. It was exclusive to PS2 for a while. Remember, it didn't launch on Xbox until well after Vice City came out.

By then, GameCube was well established as a kid system.
 
The other thing to keep in mind when comparing with the Gamecube era is that Sony was in a super-dominant position, Microsoft was throwing money around left and right, and the costs of developing a game were much less.

In 2016 the costs of development are so much that you need to release on as many platforms as possible, and porting between PS4/XB1/PC is a relatively easy task.

With other words getting third party wasn't easier than today. Release a state-of-the-art console, get support of all the middleware and engines bonus points for going the Sony route and treating important third party (from AAA o middle sized games to indie) games like first party games.
 
if Nintendo can get a console out next year that is more powerful than a ps4 at a reasonable price like £250 max I think they will be in a very good position to sale to gamers as the second console.

Most people with a ps4/xb1 wont buy the Nintendo console for cross-platform games but are more likely to buy it for exclusive game and having better graphics than the other 2 can put out helps a little but price will be key.

Also if they align all future consoles to the NX console release from now on their consoles will launch in the middle of the other two's console life-frame making it easier to trump them on specs at a lower price and give people looking for a new hardware fix something to go for mid term.

I was originally thinking they would go x86 but now I'm think the CPU with be arm based as I can't see a pc needing industry leading specs to mimic a x86 based console.
 
GTA is a really bad example. It was exclusive to PS2 for a while. Remember, it didn't launch on Xbox until well after Vice City came out.

By then, GameCube was well established as a kid system.

How was it established as a 'kid' system? You think the previous generation had anything to do with it? You think decision and the actual time to do ports are not made well in advance?
 
With other words getting third party wasn't easier than today. Release a state-of-the-art console, get support of all the middleware and engines bonus points for going the Sony route and treating important third party (from AAA o middle sized games to indie) games like first party games.

It very definitely was easier, for several reasons: PSN/XBL didn't exist yet, and Nintendo was coming off N64, which was a fairly hospitable ecosystem for core third-party games, rather than three successive generations of increasing failure in that regard.

MS had to spend obscene sums of money to break into the core market, in an era with much less entrenched competition, and without the burden of an outright negative brand perception with respect to core gaming, and it still took them more than one generation for that strategy to really bear fruit.
 
Hi everyone
If Nintendo has provided sdk for nx, and if it is very high tech, which type of hardware can run the tech demo?

Very probably a mid to low range gaming PC.
Going higher than that would cost too much on the hardware side for Nintendo, this is where consoles always were by the way.
 
so are there any official details on acid ghost yet? it's not for me, personally, but i think it's potentially a killer app. should hopefully show doubters that nintendo is serious about changing their image
 
The problem with this approach (which has much in common with iOS, where game devs usually target a least the latest model and the previous model) is that there is not really much reason to upgrade to a new console if it won't let you play new games.

Enhanced games, or something like 4k support, would appeal to a section of the market, but I think a larger section of the market only really upgrades their console when they need to do so in order to play new games.

The majority of iOS users don't upgrade specifically in order to be able to access newer games, they just want a nicer phone. I don't think this applies equally to games consoles.

I think they need a hard cut off for games between generations, to lessen the burden of supporting multiple hardware configurations for devs, and to give customers a stronger reason to upgrade. They'll still maintain compatibility with older games on the new devices though.

True but, look at it this way. What you're saying would propose that everyone from an older gen upgrades to the new gen the moment that new gen of hardware is made available. We know from experience that isn't true. Two years later and PS4/XBO are still getting cross-gen games with PS3 and 360. In fact every generation has been like that (it just feels more pronounced with this transition).

Besides a four-year cycle is just a year shy of why used to be the regular active console life cycle (and I'm thinking PS4 and XBO will have five-year cycles, almost 100% sure of it at this point).

The PS4 has been profitable since the day it launched.

These consoles were designed completely different than last gen. They were built using cheaper parts for the purpose of making cash faster and earlier in the generation so they can refresh hardware faster. Also X86 architecture to ensure backwards compatibility.

Every single sign points to a 5 or 6 year gen.
I say 5; 6th will be like a leap year into the first of the next gen.
 
I just saw one post mentioning it, but didn't the journalist in his email said the same thing as the admin quoted from the fan nintendo forum?
 
Well I think we, people who actually buy Nintendo systems and actually want 3rd party support, should , at least, start to buy the good ports. I think the mass effect 3, deus ex and most wanted U are AMAZING ports and I saw a lot of people saying "meh old game, can play anywehere else" or " people already played this six months ago" and when I asked: "Did YOU play?" i got "No but I can play anywhere else" A LOT.

There is some kind of stigma in this realm. If the game is not perfect, the better version and launches at the same time the onther versions I feel like most people, even if they want the game, will not buy it at launch and just wait to buy it used or cheap. The hype factor with 3rd party games on Nintendo is not cultivated because we always get screwed. There is always a catch. And doesn't help we are in a generation where there are videos of comparisons everywhere. I mean Darksiders 2 have problems across all the plataforms but I just know the Wii U version is choppier some points, have less light effect in some places and less trees because I saw a video. When I actually played the game it didn't affect my overall experience. Splinter Cell : Blacklist is INCREDBLE as game, but on Wii U have a lot of long loads and framerate problems. The loads are only when you enter the game and when you enter or leave a level. Between this no loadings. And I don't think the framerate problems are too bad and Wii U versions have vertical sync.

AC have good versions and we got them at launch but it was not enough. And I don't think this is beacause the public wasn't there, but because every game news site was pointing out how textures were muddier on Wii U or how buggier this version was. The marketing for Wii U in general was always negative. How do you expect people buy the games this way?

GameCube was a on par console? No. People think a lot about the tech part but forgot the time. At that time DVD Movies were a huge deal. Launch a game console without a DVD was like launching a game console without netflix today. And even though this should not affect the gamming side, it affect the marketing. "GameCube will be the only console not compatible with DVD movies". Even if the the gamer don't plan to watch dvd movies on it, when he went to the store to choose between the consoles this was something he considered.

I agree with something someone in this thread said about Nintendo always being weird with choices. After the SNES, we never had a console on par feature-wise with Sony and Microsoft. And I think the marketing of knowing you made the better choice is very important for the consumer. As a Nintendo fanatic, I always hope to be screwed by something at some point. I never, once, after the SNES era, could defend a Nintendo console as the best console and, to be able to do this, is what drives the hype for buying. Why Nintendo games always sell better? Because the buyer can defend them as amazing games, amazing versions, amazing experiences you can't find anywhere else. So is money well expent. But how can you convince someone to buy a console when the most visible and most talked things about it are it's flaws? "It doesn't play CD's" , "Cartridges are expensive", "There are no online games"," It doesn't play DVD's", "3rd party are jumping the ship", "It's a weak machine", "2 gamecubes ducktaped together", "Motion game is a bad gimmick", "The name sux", "Too expansive", "no 3rd party support","no games".

tl;dr: So I think the most challenging thing Nintendo must face is to create a product people will actually believe in. People will buy thinking they made the best choice. If someone question you for buying NX you can answer by its obvious qualities and not do what we all do today with Nintendo wich is justify the flaws.
 
so are there any official details on acid ghost yet? it's not for me, personally, but i think it's potentially a killer app. should hopefully show doubters that nintendo is serious about changing their image

I had never heard of this. This sounds to outlandish to be real, and if it was, it may have been cancelled by now.
 
How was it established as a 'kid' system? You think the previous generation had anything to do with it? You think decision and the actual time to do ports are not made well in advance?

Marketing a purple handheld in the West = good idea.

Marketing a purple console in the West = bad idea.

The fact that the black SKU existed didn't even matter, RE and ED in the first year didn't matter, Nintendo sunk themselves.

And small things, like the disc size trimming audio quality or licensed music in Tony Hawk games, missing buttons for NBA Street/SSX, or having to use an entire memory card just to save one Madden season, the complete lack of online initiative from 2002-onward, all contributed to the GCN being the least desirable place to play 3rd party games.
 
You're assuming that they're going to use x86, which is not happening. What's apparent is that Nintendo are going to be using similar architectures between handheld and console for the NX, and that's pretty much why they're going to be using ARM - x86 is unsuited for portable devices, and ARM is is pretty much just as widely supported these days as x86 is. It won't be hard for Nintendo to get a good AMD ARM processor that beats out Jaguar.

Isn't ARM still miles behind on performance compared to x86? Of course it's a given that Nintendo is going to go with ARM for their next handheld (or whatever the handheld part of NX is going to be) and it also makes sense to use similar architectures in all NX devices. But is ARM at a point where it is able to provide the necessary performance for a stationary console? Last thing I've read is that, although the low power x86 cores such as Jaguar, Atom, etc. are pretty sucky compared to regular x86 cores, they're still in a totally different league compared to current ARM cores (kind of in the middle between the big x86 cores and ARM cores, also with regards to power consumption).
 
There is no good user base for 3rd party game sales in Nintendo platforms which has been proved from their last two consoles and also 3rd parties wont jump easily just because NX is powerful (NX wont be powerful than PS4 because that will make NX expensive and also have small library to choose/play at launch compared to 3 years old PS4, so NX needs to be cheap to be competitive).

You know, going by Wikipedia:

Wii = 1,537 games
360 = 1,162 games
PS3 = 1,026 games

Obviously most of those aren't things people care about, but hey.
 
Hmm, could this be some sort of evolution of "Remote Play"? Which sounded very neat, not sure how it was in practice(Don't know anybody in person who used it). With the difference that it'd work both ways, I guess?
 
Honestly, though I'd love a "powerful" Nintendo, power would mostly just be for a few 3rd party games they couldn't guarantee would be there and that leaves them at a price disadvantage since they aren't charging owners 50 bucks of online to offset costs.
Bundling in with an expensive peripheral hurt the XBone and Wii U, if they ditch the gamepad or maybe make all the functionality on the handheld that can help them out quite a bit.
It might benefit them to just make it powerful enough to run the handheld's games at 1080p 60fps. A lot of their software would likely work well enough on that like Yoshi's Woolly world. Make the handheld the basic version and the console running it better with better effects like the fuzzy static and depth of field.
On the previous thread I was expecting hardware similar to Wii U but fixing it's major issues.
Giving it modern shaders and allowing for DX11.
Also, Miyamoto mentioned the CPU, which is the other big issue with the system.
I think that might be enough to run UE4 if they can convince Epic to port it and would be enough to get games like KH3 and DQXI.
If they can do that and increase their output via the handheld then I think they can make a case for NX being the system people would want
 
Isn't ARM still miles behind on performance compared to x86?
There is this to consider:

With the type of cooling you could provide in a home console form factor, and configuring the chips to not be so concerned with saving battery life, you can get better performance out of an equivalent processor in something like a console compared to a mobile device.

Not sure exactly how much of a difference this can make with regards to performance, but it is certainly a factor.

I can see merit to both arguments that they will go with x86 and arguments that they will go with ARM. I can't see a conclusive answer based on the little info we have so far.

There would be a difference in performance of an ARM chip in a phone/tablet compared to that of one in a console.
 
Marketing a purple handheld in the West = good idea.

Marketing a purple console in the West = bad idea.

The fact that the black SKU existed didn't even matter, RE and ED in the first year didn't matter, Nintendo sunk themselves.

And small things, like the disc size trimming audio quality or licensed music in Tony Hawk games, missing buttons for NBA Street/SSX, or having to use an entire memory card just to save one Madden season, the complete lack of online initiative from 2002-onward, all contributed to the GCN being the least desirable place to play 3rd party games.

And yet oddly enough most third party games best versions are on the GameCube now that online play doesn't matter. GBA functionality and most technical performance outrank nearly all PS2 versions and quite a few Xbox versions.
 
Marketing a purple handheld in the West = good idea.

Marketing a purple console in the West = bad idea.

The fact that the black SKU existed didn't even matter, RE and ED in the first year didn't matter, Nintendo sunk themselves.

And small things, like the disc size trimming audio quality or licensed music in Tony Hawk games, missing buttons for NBA Street/SSX, or having to use an entire memory card just to save one Madden season, the complete lack of online initiative from 2002-onward, all contributed to the GCN being the least desirable place to play 3rd party games.

Good point. People like to say, "It was this!" or, "No, it was that!" Gamecube's failure was really a prime example of many smaller detriments collectively amounting to a significant loss of market. It didn't help that Sony and MS both played expertly to their particular strengths either.
 
That is one powerful handheld!

I guess Dr. Feel Good is talking about this:

gamecube_to_gba_.jpg
 
And yet oddly enough most third party games best versions are on the GameCube now that online play doesn't matter. GBA functionality and most technical performance outrank nearly all PS2 versions and quite a few Xbox versions.
I can tell you one game where the best version ISN'T on GC. Capcom Vs. SNK 2.

Lord forbid that d-pad doesn't kill your thumb, and the c-stick Special move mapping was just so broken and cheap. There weren't a lot of good, affordable fight sticks for the system either now that I remember.

The weakest version of the 3 by a fair margin.
 
And yet oddly enough most third party games best versions are on the GameCube now that online play doesn't matter. GBA functionality and most technical performance outrank nearly all PS2 versions and quite a few Xbox versions.

It could look leagues better but the controller. Iggggghhhhhhhuhdjdjdj.

Nintendo had a lot of misses with the GameCube and that's a major one.
 
I can tell you one game where the best version ISN'T on GC. Capcom Vs. SNK 2.

Lord forbid that d-pad doesn't kill your thumb, and the c-stick Special move mapping was just so broken and cheap. There weren't a lot of good, affordable fight sticks for the system either now that I remember.

The weakest version of the 3 by a fair margin.

GC version also lacked online play, which the other versions had. I think replays too? I forget.
 
Ps4 wasn't profitable at launch. It just wasn't sinking 2 or 300 dollars per box.

Yeah it was, one game sold with a PS4 made it profitable at launch

Sony Japan had told Eurogamer that they were expecting to make a profit on the "average purchase" of a launch buyer

Also we know the hardware itself was profitable by May of the launch year at the latest
 
GC version also lacked online play, which the other versions had. I think replays too? I forget.
Actually, it did have replays. But you could only have, I think, 2 replays max (correct me if I'm wrong). I only remember having one at a time and then when I recorded another the old one was deleted.

But yeah, weakest version. Still though, at least it actually had a (quality) traditional 2D Capcom/SNK-style fighter on the system, that was an improvement over N64 in that dept.
 
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