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[DragonKnight]

I think it's a little premature to think about NX being a success or not, we barely know what it is, and as a neat concept as it could be in the end if the market doesn't embrace it then it won't succeed.

I think there is enough rumblings out there to get an idea of where nintendo is headed and how this plan will be embraced by the masses. The system will apparently be powerful, have a much better OS, and a much better online experience. Third parties like SE (who historically have only provided support in terms of spin offs) are on board prior to any hardware reveal by nintendo. There also have yet to be any mention of any gimmick of any kind.

In the end, only time will tell but things look promising. Selling 10 million units of hardware down from 100 million does things to a company like nintendo whose soles bread and butter is video games. At least during the gc and wii days they made beaucoup bucks. The same cannot be said for the wiiu.

 

[Azoo]

I know I'm pretty late to this point, but wouldn't Nintendo be able to attract a better crowd to outsiders who want more games akin to what Sony and Microsoft give if they focused more on (not toony styled) Zelda, Metroid and etc? It's not like Mario or DK need to lessen their presence as much as the others need it more. It'd make it easier to see games like Fallout, GTA, Splinter Cell, Capcom fighters and the like too I'd think.

 

[KingBroly]

But SE hasn't announced anything for the NX. They merely expressed an interest. It was hardly a confirmed announcement.

They announced DQX/XI for NX, then they backed off of it later. It's not something you say on that type of platform unless you get a wink and a nod from other people.

 

[DragonKnight]

But SE hasn't announced anything for the NX. They merely expressed an interest. It was hardly a confirmed announcement.

That was an announcement. I get it that nintendo has screwed ua all over in the past but geez. It was a formal annoucement.

 

[Hero of Legend]

I don't know why the quote where everyone hears "hybrid" is so easy to think that. To me it clearly states it'll be two separate units; the console, and the mobile/handheld unit to play on the go.

 

[Mildudon]

But SE hasn't announced anything for the NX. They merely expressed an interest. It was hardly a confirmed announcement.

Its' still better than the situation before where there wasn't any hint of interest from SE for wii u. Small steps.

 

[DragonKnight]

All I know is that Metroid Prime 4 needs to be ready to go and Andrew Jones needs to be back on board.

 

[duckielein]

Actually the AC team made AC: Happy Home Designer and AC: Amiibo Festival. But yeah the point is that the team leads don't have to make the same type of game over and over because the console and hand held each need a version.

Uh, If I am not worng, NDCube is the one who develops amiibo festival.

 

[Allegrian]

Remember what Iwata said:

"If you only expand upon existing hardware, it's dull," Iwata said in the report, as translated by Kotaku. "In some shape or form, we're always thinking about how we want to surprise players as well as our desire to change each person's video gaming life."

"As proof that Nintendo maintains strong enthusiasm for the dedicated game system business, let me confirm that Nintendo is currently developing a dedicated game platform with a brand-new concept under the development codename 'NX,'"

"We can't talk about the NX," he said. "If we do, competitors may take our ideas and customers won't be surprised."

Don't you smell a gimmick like the wii?

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Uh, If I am not worng, NDCube is the one who develops amiibo festival.

They were added as a co-developer. Where did you get that they are the only developer?

 

[Red Devil]

I think there is enough rumblings out there to get an idea of where nintendo is headed and how this plan will be embraced by the masses. The system will apparently be powerful, have a much better OS, and a much better online experience. Third parties like SE (who historically have only provided support in terms of spin offs) are on board prior to any hardware reveal by nintendo. There also have yet to be any mention of any gimmick of any kind.

In the end, only time will tell but things look promising. Selling 10 million units of hardware down from 100 million does things to a company like nintendo whose soles bread and butter is video games. At least during the gc and wii days they made beaucoup bucks. The same cannot be said for the wiiu.

Perhaps you're right, but I think it's too early.

I know I'm pretty late to this point, but wouldn't Nintendo be able to attract a better crowd to outsiders who want more games akin to what Sony and Microsoft give if they focused more on (not toony styled) Zelda, Metroid and etc? It's not like Mario or DK need to lessen their presence as much as the others need it more. It'd make it easier to see games like Fallout, GTA, Splinter Cell, Capcom fighters and the like too I'd think.

The matter is that things like Metroid never really attracted huge crowds, they did good but weren't system sellers(except for Zelda which it isn't always stellar saleswise it's a system seller), more likely that's where the third parties should come in to fill the role in addition to the Metroids, etc.

I don't know why the quote where everyone hears "hybrid" is so easy to think that. To me it clearly states it'll be two separate units; the console, and the mobile/handheld unit to play on the go.

It's two devices but they seem to intregrate as part of the same platform, I guess until Nintendo comes out(or gets leaked) and says "NX is this and/or this" we won't know for certain.

 

[DragonKnight]

Remember what Iwata said:



Don't you smell a gimmick like the wii?

I feel like the gimmick is them adapting the way apple handles devices unified via an OS. I have to believe that some lessons were learned this gen. It was unprecented for nintendo.

 

[Allegrian]

I feel like the gimmick is them adapting the way apple handles devices unified via an OS. I have to believe that some lessons were learned this gen. It was unprecented for nintendo.

It has to be more than that, the hybrid thing is not that surprising and new (Vita and ps3/4).

 

[Azoo]

The matter is that things like Metroid never really attracted huge crowds, they did good but weren't system sellers, more likely that's where the third parties should come in to fill the role in addition to the Metroids, etc.

Yeah, true that. Still, games like Metroid if impressive enough would be enough to ensure to the third parties and non-hardcore-Nintendo-fan audience that they're willing to work to make their library match tones with their wants. Plus, even the Nintendo userbase wants a Metroid so I'd imagine making one would be the ultimate win situation right now.

 

[DragonKnight]

Perhaps you're right, but I think it's too early.



The matter is that things like Metroid never really attracted huge crowds, they did good but weren't system sellers, more likely that's where the third parties should come in to fill the role in addition to the Metroids, etc.



It's two devices but they seem to intregrate as part of the same platform, I guess until Nintendo comes out(or gets leaked) and says "NX is this and/or this" we won't know for certain.

Metroid was never marketed as well as it should have. I only even purchased metroid prime because i was looking for a game for my new gc and I read it reviewed well. If they marketed the franchise properly it would sell loads better. It will need shiny amazing graphics though to accomplish this task.

Metroid Prime to this day remains my fav game of all time and nintedo had no hand in my decision to purchase the game.

 

[GhostTrick]

I meant from a console perspective.

Unless there is a 10x disparity between wiiu sales and ps4 sales in japan, i def see no reason for them to not to have annouced ff14 and dqx for wiiu. Them announcing it for NX to me means something has def changed for nintendo. Early rumours surrounding the wiiu were that it was supposed to be much more powerful but square support remained non-existent.

Audience. First, DQX is on Wii U. DQXI coming to Wii U would require too much work. As for FF14, it makes no sense because the audience isn't here.

 

[Ogodei]

Currently the overall Nintendo ecosystem dominates or at least does comparatively well with platformers, JRPGs (especially the monster collecting variety), kart racers, party games, toys to life and similar kids games like Lego, hunting games, whatever category Animal Crossing and Tomodachi fall under, and easy to understand multiplayer titles. Missing out on the big open worlds, shoot bangs, and sports definitely hurts a lot, but they do have some variety, and they've shown the ability to expand into other genres like online TPS with Splatoon. I'm in favor of Nintendo of expanding that ecosystem instead of fighting Sony/MS for the ecosystem they currently dominate.

They could get sports back relatively easily, i feel, as those are truly "family" games even if their core audience are the dudebro-type players. Games like Madden and FIFA are really "for everyone" as you could get, which is why they did okay on Wii (Wii U you can't really say, since EA was being salty and looking for an excuse to drop support), and Nintendo partially tapped that concept with Wii Sports, as well as their enduring Mario Sports franchises.

I agree with the rest. Another avenue i've advocated for in the past would be Nintendo reaching out to the third party franchises which can't find a home in the current market dominated by megagames like Destiny or GTA. Bring back the mid-tier, popular franchises that have been left to die. Get working with Capcom to bring back Megaman (this might be happening already?), get Sega to port PSO2 to NX in the West (since the only console port it's gotten is Japan-only, no?). Get that Beyond Good and Evil 2 project back up and running. Rayman, Prince of Persia.

 

[DragonKnight]

Audience. First, DQX is on Wii U. DQXI coming to Wii U would require too much work. As for FF14, it makes no sense because the audience isn't here.

DQX was most likely released on wiiu as a response to wii sales and is an MMO experience that guarentees a steady revenue stream. Looking at wiiu sales coupled with DQ11 being a single player experience to me provides square with no incentive to make DQ11 avaliable on the NX unless something has happened behind the scenes to support this decision. Especially for a system with an install base of zero and no formal feature set announcement from Nintendo.

Also dragon quest only sells on nintendo handhelds. There hasnt been data on how well single player dragon quest will sell on a nintendo console since the snes days. So why the heck would square put the game on the NX? Something has gotta be different.

Arent they also looking to make FF14 available?

 

[AdanVC]

Remember what Iwata said:



Don't you smell a gimmick like the wii?

Yikes I forgot about this statements. Hope he refers to the way they are to unify their handheld and home-console machines and nothing else... I would hate if NX ends up being another gimmicky system "You know have to shake your hips while wearing this new belt-controller to make Mario jumpzz!!1 revolution!"

 

[GhostTrick]

DQX was most likely released on wiiu as a response to wii sales and is an MMO experience that guarentees a steady revenue stream. Looking at wiiu sales coupled with DQ11 being a single player experience to me provides square with no incentive to make DQ11 avaliable on the NX unless something has happened behind the scenes to support this decision. Especially for a system with an install base of zero and no formal feature set announcement from Nintendo.

Also dragon quest only sells on nintendo handhelds. There hasnt been data on how well single player dragon quest will sell on a nintendo console since the snes days. So why the heck would square put the game on the NX? Something has gotta be different.

Arent they also looking to make FF14 available?

A system with a newer architecture supporting the UE4 ? Nintendo courting them ?

As for FF14, they are. The reason for NX support is that there's still hope for them to have a solid platform and stream of revenue too.

 

[DragonKnight]

Yikes I forgot about this statements. Hope he refers to the way they are to unify their handheld and home-console machines and nothing else... I would hate if NX ends up being another gimmicky system "You know have to shake your hips while wearing this new belt-controller to make Mario jumpzz!!1 revolution!"

And nothing is wrong with gimmicks provided the make freaking sense. Nothing wrong with sensible innovation that gives the industry a jolt. The industry is expected to sell less than half of the consoles it sold last gen. Huge drop off.

 

[DragonKnight]

A system with a newer architecture supporting the UE4 ? Nintendo courting them ?

As for FF14, they are. The reason for NX support is that there's still hope for them to have a solid platform and stream of revenue too.

Why didnt the wiiu get FF14 then? I get a sense of excitement coming from square given the prematurity of the anouncement. Nintendo landing a single player mainline dragon quest from square enix is something I expected Nintendo to shout from the mountain tops but Square made the first move.

 

[ktroopa]

A high end chip in a nintendo console you say. Ok sure i am still waiting...

Gamecube, wii and then wiiu. History does not give me high hopes on the tech front.

 

[Anth0ny]

I agree with your last point. Even tho there were several other factors that led Nintendo where it's today, they certaintly made sure to fuck something up every single gen (hardware wise) that did nothing but push them into their current situation

N64 - expensive/small storage Cartridges instead of discs
GCN - mini discs instead of regular size discs
Wii - severely underpowered compared to its competition
Wii U - not severely but still underpowered console with a weird controller 95% of its library does not make properly use of including its own manufacturer.

Nintendo has been banking on the same stupid idea: "it's good enough for us"
Yeah, you can make some pretty stylized games on restrictive hardware but not everyone has the same goals, not everyone works under the same philosophy and it clearly shows by the piss poor and always decadent support Nintendo keeps receiving every gen.

Yup. Nintendo makes great games in spite of their weird, dumb hardcore decisions, not because of them.

It would be nice to get a Nintendo console that doesn't have a significant hardware problem that turns off third parties.

 

[DragonKnight]

A system with a newer architecture supporting the UE4 ? Nintendo courting them ?

As for FF14, they are. The reason for NX support is that there's still hope for them to have a solid platform and stream of revenue too.

And hope based on what? With only the wiiu as a precedent (abysmal sales and dqx wasnt even released in the west) and given the sheer amount of money square lost with FFXIV, what reason does square have to take that risk? Certainly not on hope.

 

[DragonKnight]

A high end chip in a nintendo console you say. Ok sure i am still waiting...

Gamecube, wii and then wiiu. History does not give me high hopes on the tech front.

You know the gamecube was a powerhouse, right? But i feel you on the wii and wiiu.

 

[DragonKnight]

Yup. Nintendo makes great games in spite of their weird, dumb hardcore decisions, not because of them.

It would be nice to get a Nintendo console that doesn't have a significant hardware problem that turns off third parties.

5th time is the charm, right?

 

[Snakeyes]

Yeah, true that. Still, games like Metroid if impressive enough would be enough to ensure to the third parties and non-hardcore-Nintendo-fan audience that they're willing to work to make their library match tones with their wants. Plus, even the Nintendo userbase wants a Metroid so I'd imagine making one would be the ultimate win situation right now.

They need new IPs that scratch the same itch more than a new Metroid tbh.

 

[DragonKnight]

They need new IPs that scratch the same itch more than a new Metroid tbh.

And if they cant do it, pay third parties to do it ala Bayonetta and Starfox.

 

[Malus]

Remember what Iwata said:



Don't you smell a gimmick like the wii?

Hey I'm all for it lol. Wiimote is the best controller. The market on the other hand...

 

[Storm Kyleis]

My two cents: family of systems with a single OS. Same library. Games scaled according to the specs, as you would see on PC or iOS. At least one handheld console in late 2016, at least one home console in 2017.

Definitely not a "hybrid".

 

[DragonKnight]

My two cents: family of systems with a single OS. Same library. Games scaled according to the specs, as you would see on PC or iOS. At least one handheld console in late 2016, at least one home console in 2017.

Definitely not a "hybrid".

What i see as well except i think the console needs to be released next year. If it releases in 2017 it better be future proof to offset sony and micros machines in 2018.

 

[Azoo]

They need new IPs that scratch the same itch more than a new Metroid tbh.

And if they cant do it, pay third parties to do it ala Bayonetta and Starfox.

I can agree to that, though I think if a new Metroid was marketed correctly and looked the part it'd def rock the boat. In the era of super huge AAA budget atmosphere-centric shooter games, I'd imagine Metroid would be able to grab more attention than ever before. Still, it wouldn't be enough, but it'd be one of their best bets to rely on if they can market it right.

Zelda U being crossplat NX would be a good supporter too since "the next big Zelda" seems to make the whole collective gaming community lose their shit even when it's spinoffs and HD remasters don't do much in comparison.. and we know that with a new console coming, people aren't going to want to get a Wii U just for it.

My two cents: family of systems with a single OS. Same library. Games scaled according to the specs, as you would see on PC or iOS. At least one handheld console in late 2016, at least one home console in 2017.

Definitely not a "hybrid".

I'm expecting exactly this, except both get a simultaneous launch. Feels like the NX handheld coming first would be suicide for the console version.

 

[GhostTrick]

And hope based on what? With only the wiiu as a precedent (abysmal sales and dqx wasnt even released in the west) and given the sheer amount of money square lost with FFXIV, what reason does square have to take that risk? Certainly not on hope.

Based on the fact that NX might be handheld and home console sharing their library.

 

[Snakeyes]

DQX was most likely released on wiiu as a response to wii sales and is an MMO experience that guarentees a steady revenue stream. Looking at wiiu sales coupled with DQ11 being a single player experience to me provides square with no incentive to make DQ11 avaliable on the NX unless something has happened behind the scenes to support this decision. Especially for a system with an install base of zero and no formal feature set announcement from Nintendo.

It's the other way around. Single player mainline Dragon Quest games were always a much bigger draw than MMOs.

Also dragon quest only sells on nintendo handhelds. There hasnt been data on how well single player dragon quest will sell on a nintendo console since the snes days. So why the heck would square put the game on the NX? Something has gotta be different.

Arent they also looking to make FF14 available?

Because it's increasingly likely that NX is not a single piece of hardware but a platform that encompasses both handhelds and stationary devices.

 

[Snakeyes]

And if they cant do it, pay third parties to do it ala Bayonetta and Starfox.

Agreed. Better yet, make more western acquisitions - you can't expect to do well in an increasingly westernized industry when over 90% of your creative workforce is in Japan.

 

[DragonKnight]

Based on the fact that NX might be handheld and home console sharing their library.

Ive never heard of a handheld MMO.

 

[Busaiku]

Ive never heard of a handheld MMO.

Phantasy Star Online, Dragon Quest X, Maple Story, among others.
And there are tons on phones.

 

[DragonKnight]

Agreed. Better yet, make more western acquisitions - you can't expect to do well in an increasingly westernized industry when over 90% of your creative workforce is in Japan.

Yep. I love Retro but such studios need to be allowed free reign to make the games they wanna make. It would only expand nintendos portfolio. Its a win-win for them.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Are we really expecting ALL games to be playable on both console and handheld?

I was more expecting this to be about making ports easy when they make sense. So, Smash 5 would be both, Mario Galaxy 3 would be both, Pokemon would be handheld only, new mainline Zelda would be console only.

Among other things, scaling games just doesn't work 100% of the time. Unless the handheld is ridiculously powerful and/or the console is quite weak, the handheld is going to be holding console games back.

 

[DragonKnight]

Phantasy Star Online, Dragon Quest X, Maple Story, among others.
And there are tons on phones.

Legit did not know that dqx was available on the 3ds. My bad. But it makes sense what nintendo wants to do with the unified libraries. It still doesnt explain the premature announcment however which I feel speaks to the strength of what nintendo aims to offer.

 

[DragonKnight]

Are we really expecting ALL games to be playable on both console and handheld?

I was more expecting this to be about making ports easy when they make sense. So, Smash 5 would be both, Mario Galaxy 3 would be both, Pokemon would be handheld only, new mainline Zelda would be console only.

Among other things, scaling games just doesn't work 100% of the time. Unless the handheld is ridiculously powerful and/or the console is quite weak, the handheld is going to be holding console games back.

There will be games only available on one and vice versa.

 

[AzaK]

I think semi regular revisions make sense for the handheld, but not for the home console, and they should not split the library/userbase for a long time. If you buy a Nintendo games machine, it should be supported with Nintendo game releases for a decent amount of time. Requiring you to buy a new version of the same device to play new releases would not go down well.

Enhancements that make sense for the handheld: An XL model that increase the screen size and resolution. A 3D model that play the same games at the same resolution, but with stereoscopy, a 3D XL model that does both.

That would let them release a new model every ~18 months without splitting the userbase. Then they can do an NX handheld 2, with full BC and increased specs for new games. Then repeat a similar upgrade cycle.

Edit: I guess revisions for the home console like a slim/mini model, or increased storage space make sense, but assuming the initial release is similar size to the Wii/Wii U (perhaps smaller if they abandon the disc drive in favour of a cartridge slot), they'd probably have more success with colour variants, like they did with the Gamecube and the Wii.

I've been one of these people that, from a consumer point of view would be completely happy to see regular, (12-18 month) upgrades of a home console. I don't give a shit if someone has a better console than me like I don't care that someone has the iPhone 6s and I have a 5s. When I'm ready I'll get an iPhone 7 or 8. At the point I feel I would like an upgrade, I can basically do it and get the "latest and greatest". The current console model means I have to wait 5-7 years; I have no choice.

The one caveat - it needs to be backwards compatible, using the same fundamental architecture, ala phones. Devs then take the responsibility to scale accordingly which they do anyway if they release Wii U vs Ps4, vs PC.

Now, I'm not sure if from a business perspective that would work in the console space. New generations of console bring along with it big jumps in tech, hype and marketting power. There's value in that for tech minded consumers and so it helps sell the systems. However, I can't help but wonder how successful it'd be if Nintendo took a different approach; something similar to phone makers where phones almost take on the role of being a consumable.

 

[Roo]

I think when you have Square Enix announce things before anyone else has said anything, you have to think something has changed.

For their own good I hope so.
They really need to step outside of their comfort zone if they're even remotely interested in successfully atract people other than their loyal fanbase.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Alright guys keep in mind this has nothing to do with that forum poster link that has been floating around here, lets make that clear.

This is from Takashi Mochizuki the man who posted the Wall Street Journal article, he just responded to my email that I sent him regarding the "Industry Leading Chips" quote, here it is:




I'm kind of in a bit of shock right now.......I can't believe this, it's the real deal.....

I want to get back on topic. Dude, this is a great follow up with the author. You've got my props.

Now, as to what this somewhat subjective report could translate to in terms of computational performance, I have my own thoughts. Nintendo likely have an impressive visual demo using the latest DirectX/OpenGL supported shader effects. I would not be surprised at all if it's based on Vulkan.

For that one source in the forum rumor, having 60fps not attainable on some vague high level pc does not say much either. Well, it could likely say something about whatever virtual machine Nintendo are rolling out as part of their early NX SDK.

So, I don't think we can say anything about TFLOPs or process node necessarily, but at least it appears that this time they won't put something like a 2010 GPU in a 2012 console.

 

[Nanashrew]

Makes me wonder if 3rd parties got their devkits at the same time Nintendo's 1st parties got theirs. That would be a pretty big change right there. I seriously was not expecting to hear Dragon Quest 11 get an NX announcement at all.

 

[GhostTrick]

I want to get back on topic. Dude, this is a great follow up with the author. You've got my props.

Now, as to what this somewhat subjective report could translate to in terms of computational performance, I have my own thoughts. Nintendo likely have an impressive visual demo using the latest DirectX/OpenGL supported shader effects. I would not be surprised at all if it's based on Vulkan.

For that one source in the forum rumor, having 60fps not attainable on some vague high level pc does not say much either. Well, it could likely say something about whatever virtual machine Nintendo are rolling out as part of their early NX SDK.

So, I don't think we can say anything about TFLOPs or process node necessarily, but at least it appears that this time they won't put something like a 2010 GPU in a 2012 console.

Wii U's problem was to use the lowest end 2008 GPU of AMD in a 2012 console.

 

[AzaK]

I want to get back on topic. Dude, this is a great follow up with the author. You've got my props.

Now, as to what this somewhat subjective report could translate to in terms of computational performance, I have my own thoughts. Nintendo likely have an impressive visual demo using the latest DirectX/OpenGL supported shader effects. I would not be surprised at all if it's based on Vulkan.

For that one source in the forum rumor, having 60fps not attainable on some vague high level pc does not say much either. Well, it could likely say something about whatever virtual machine Nintendo are rolling out as part of their early NX SDK.

So, I don't think we can say anything about TFLOPs or process node necessarily, but at least it appears that this time they won't put something like a 2010 GPU in a 2012 console.

Fourth Storm baby, did you not learn from the WUSTS?

I see rumours of Matt chiming in. What has he said about the NX?

 

[Oregano]

It would make sense for the handheld to have the "industry leading chips" to make the handheld/console synergy easier.

They could theoretically have a handheld more powerful than the Wii U and I think most people would be happy with that as a baseline.

I expect the vast majority of games to be released on both because Nintendo can't afford to make two sets of HD Titles. That includes Zelda too, 3D Zelda is just more popular on handheld.

 

[DaSorcerer7]

Fourth Storm baby, did you not learn from the WUSTS?

I see rumours of Matt chiming in. What has he said about the NX?

He has said it's definitely more powerful than Wii U. Which I guess isn't saying much.