Galactic Barret
Member
There is almost no reason to watch wrestling anymore now that UFC/MMA is thriving.
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WWE Raw Ratings: Viewership Hits Record Low
- Thread starter DMczaf
- Start date
The One and Done
Member
Good. It's fucking shit.
I wanted to start watching Smackdown again but the shit that went down with Mauro and the company trying to whitewash JBL chased me right back off immediately.
JesseEwiak
Member
Except Steve Austin was actually interesting and had charisma. The entire roster these days is a bunch of bland dudes who do Crossfit, eat their protein shakes, and play video games.
That's the actual issue - you have a bunch of guys who learned how to be great in-ring workers, but never learned how to cut a good promo to save their lives. Yes, part of it is the terrible writing. I won't doubt that. But, a lot of the guys and girls on the roster are just...boring. They wouldn't be able to sell ice to a man in the desert if they needed too.
Keyser Soze
Member
UFC is in the process of drastically fucking up their company making every mistake boxing has made
Soon I will just watch nothing but curling. No on can fuck that up
NYR
Member
Yeaaah. UFC is a one horse pony. Outside of Conor McGregor, they don't have any superstars with any charisma. Even with Conor, people are more interested in seeing him box than fight. UFC may have great fighters, but very little mainstream stars. Their titles are a joke - the interim title game is dumb and water downs everything. Nate Diaz had a shot but blew it now waiting for a 20 mill fight that will never happen.
Pretty much.
Though I'm surprised there's still millions of mouth breathers out there that continue to watch. I guess they need something to do while they eat their glue.
Hidden One
Member
Hopefully RAW gets worse and ratings continue to fall and they go back to 2 hours forever.
slightconfuse
Banned
Won't make the booking or writing better. Just one less hour of shit
pretty done
Member
Not surprising when the product is that bad. Well deserved Vince/HHH.
Violence Jack
Member
Kill the scripts and start giving these guys free reign on the mic again. For example, it's hard for me to take someone like Rollins seriously as a face because he sounds like he's trying so hard to stay on script, that he comes off corny. And where are the monster heels that are being actual heels? It was easy to boo guys like Kurt Angle, HHH, heel Cena, and heel Orton because they were cocky, knew how to generate real heat from the crowd, but were good enough in the ring to be respected. Right now, Miz and KO could be those guys on the paths they're on.
But one glaring problem needs to change, and that's getting the belt off of a part timer like Lesnar. A show with a champion who's barely there is a show not really worth watching when they don't have the dynamic personalities to get viewers tuning in.
But one glaring problem needs to change, and that's getting the belt off of a part timer like Lesnar. A show with a champion who's barely there is a show not really worth watching when they don't have the dynamic personalities to get viewers tuning in.
Professor Beef
Banned
Evening Musuko
Black Korea
Actually, if you're a wrestling fan, there's no better time than now to watch. When just about every promotion around the world either has their own streaming service or puts up their shows on VOD, it's easier than ever to get into stuff outside of WWE. The only problem is finding the time to watch all the content that's being put out.
The Silver
Member
I don't know why people care the belt isn't there, what the fuck was Owens doing with it when he had it? Being the champ doesn't mean shit if you're still booked like a goober, get me some good characters then I'll care about the belt, at least with Brock the champ is booked like he's special.
JesseEwiak
Member
Hogan wasn't on the show for weeks when Nitro was kicking RAW's ass.
As for the rest,.heel's can't get heat today because large portions of the crowd are filled with smart marks who will cheer anybody who ever wrestled an indy match, was "held down" by the WWE, or is facing Roman Reigns because "they deserve it clap clap clap."
This is like saying that people should stop watching action movies and instead look at police and war footage
Mike Works
Member
How many people are cheering for Dolph Ziggler vs Nakamura?
Sorry but this is a bad hot take post . Austin was a once a lifetime guy so of course your not getting that again. But what does playing video games and stuff they do in there free time have to do with anything ? Did wrestlers being drug addicts, drunks and dudes that beat the shit out of the wife's and took loads of roids make them better wrestlers? Sorry I don't get that point at all. Watch guys on talking smack and a lot of them sound and talk so much better. Roman reigns comes off so much better in interviews outside of the WWE. Some guys were good in nxt then get moved up and are bad. How long did it take for them to realize how good of a talker cm punk was before the pipe bomb. The miz is gold on the mic and has got bad booking for years. Daniel I don't give a fuck brain is also so much better on talking smack because he doesn't care if they fire him. Cody Rhodes hasn't been great since leaving WWE but some of the stuff I have seen makes him look so much better then when he was there. Play to your wrestlers strengths which they don't do anymore. All of these wrestlers are neutered by the company and they get buried by 50 year old part timers. They would sign and ruin a guy like Kenny Omega who is insanely charismatic because they wouldn't get his sense of humour. Even a guy like Rusev is so good on social media etc but he never gets a chance to ever show it.
Violence Jack
Member
Because Nitro had many guys who could draw even when Hogan was out. Sting, DDP, Goldberg's streak, the other nWo members, etc. Raw doesn't have those kind of personalities anymore.
The booking wasn't on KO, but they fucked up his title run from the very beginning. No one gave a damn about him until he and Jericho got together and started doing their own thing. But the champ is supposed to be one of the main reasons you tune in, and having a part-timer like Brock isn't doing themselves any good when they could develop the full time talent instead. Yeah, Brock is booked to be something special when he shows up, but they can't keep that up forever.
Evening Musuko
Black Korea
Or, and this is a bit crazy but hear me out, they could get with the times and try to get heat in other ways than just "Grr. I'mma bad guy".
pretty done
Member
you forgot disco inferno
Alex wright
Galactic Barret
Member
Having tons of content is great, but that only means something if you have consumers that enjoy it. Wrestling today pales in the face of the Attitude era, and its showing.
I won't denigrate the fanbase, although I have asked my Brother-in-law why he still watches it. He explained it to me, and I still don't understand why.
None of what you said has anything to do with the watchability of MMA/UFC. You can say charisma and superstars are lacking in the sport, but it isn't lacking in reality. JBJ is suspended, so Conor is the current hotness. Its always been that way. George St. Pierre was the hotness, until his injury, then it was Anderson Silva. Its shifts as fighters age; Its based on actual skill, after
all.
Wrestling fans, and formers like myself, want the previous generation back; that was charisma, those were superstars. SCSA, The Rock, DX, etc. Most of the greatest stars in the biz are dead (RIP Chyna, Eddie, CB) or far removed from it (Batista, The Rock).
How do I respond to this? Roflcopter?
Hell, even WWE's fanbase agrees with me.
I mean, sure, greed fucks up all the televised combat sports. However, any given fight could be the best of the night, even if a few of the recent PPVs have been entirely underwhelming.
Eh, more like the difference between watching a PG-13 movie vs something R rated. Like, watching 3 Ninjas vs Kickass.
JesseEwiak
Member
Nakamura's a former New Japan guy, so he holds rank in the smart mark hearts over Ziggler.
To be blunt, crazy people are more interesting and have more to feed into. Even in other parts of entertainment, who's more interesting and captivates people? Weirdoes who do lots of crazy shit.
Yes, there are certain people who when cut loose can cut a good promo (even though I think Bryan is highly overrated, but gets a pass because he's basically playing Internet commneter on Talking Smack), but for the most part, even when they're out of the ring seemingly off script, most of the roster don't seem that interesting. I mean, they're better people than 80's pro wrestlers, but that doesn't make them better pro wrestlers.
The issue is that all of the current rosters strengths, is in-ring. Which is great, but it doesn't draw viewers.
And nothing personal, but Kenny Omega is special in Japan because he's one of a kind there, like a lot of gaijin. In America, he'd be Dolph Ziggler, but better in the ring. Sorry, Omega has never impressed me on the mic.
Sure, that just means Brock being off TV right now is a bad plan, not that having your champion off TV is a bad thing.
Seemingly, the only thing that draws heat with the current audience is either be a bad wrestler or Roman Reigns.
Violence Jack
Member
Norman Smiley son.
JesseEwiak
Member
Also, yes, the WWE booking is terrible. But in general, most of the Internet's plans to fix the WWE are just as terrible, when it comes to drawing ratings.
Mike Works
Member
Are you suggesting that there are so many smarks at WWE shows that they drown out every non-smark fan when it comes to cheering for "New Japan" guys like Nakamura or AJ Styles?
That the smarks meld the opinions when it comes to Roman Reigns and his push, that it thus becomes majority?
Or perhaps the smarks are just so vocal that they influence the majority of the casual WWE crowd into thinking the same?
If the smarks are the majority, should they be catered to?
SoRuffShoNuff
Member
The guys aren't allowed to cut a good promo, they are given a script to read.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Not having the "world champion" on TV every week isn't a bad thing, they could elevate the secondary titles again if they weren't devalued to the point of worthlessness.
JesseEwiak
Member
First, AJ debuted in Orlando where he wrestled for a decade in front of a PPV crowd. If you notice, he was noticeably less over for a couple of months until his feud with Reigns where he really became a main event guy, thanks to his great work and being in a main even feud.
Secondly, Roman's still the #2 merch seller and booing him became the thing to do just like it became the thing to do to chant Let's Go Cena, Cena Sucks. I bet if you look across the crowd at RAW or Smackdown, you'll see people in Roman merch booing Roman just like you could see people in Cena merch chanting 'Cena Sucks' at times during shows. Because it's fun!
However, smarks are a strong chunk of people who buy tickets to really expensive RAW's and PPV's because they have more disposable income. But, they aren't a majority of the people who watch RAW, Smackdown, and the Network.
Plus, you don't want a show that only appeals to the hardcore of your hardcore. You want a show your hardcores will like, but will also appeal to the causal fan. Now, at this point, after a two decade toxic relationship between the Internet and the WWE, that may be impossible.
Except there are people who can't even cut a good promo, when off the screen. I'm sorry, Seth Rollins, Finn Balor, etc. aren't interesting even when they're playing themselves.
Yes, folks would be helped by being unscripted. I don't doubt that. But, people act like it would be 1987 NWA if that dastardly McMahon just stopped writing so many promos when the truth is, a lot of people on the current roster would be even worse without a script.
Post-shakeup there's almost nothing on Raw that interests me and the few wrestlers there that do (Braun, Finn, Miz) have not been featured well the last couple of weeks. On top of it being a pre-taped show from the UK this week I had almost no interest and napped thru the entire episode.
The more worrying part to me is that post-shakeup even Smackdown has been worse than normal. They have all of my favorite talent in the company on that show but they've been squandering KO, Sami and AJ while they give the spotlight to boring-ass Orton and a Jinder feud because they apparently care about India all of a sudden. On top of all that, Bryan is out having a baby so we don't get him on Talking Smack (a show I haven't watched since before Mania) and my desire to watch both shows has been at an all time low personally the last month and I'm a pretty die-hard fan.
I'd say at least I'm still excited for the PPVs but the next one is a Randy vs Jinder match for the WWE Championship and I honestly don't think I could book a match with current roster talent I'm less interested in seeing...
The more worrying part to me is that post-shakeup even Smackdown has been worse than normal. They have all of my favorite talent in the company on that show but they've been squandering KO, Sami and AJ while they give the spotlight to boring-ass Orton and a Jinder feud because they apparently care about India all of a sudden. On top of all that, Bryan is out having a baby so we don't get him on Talking Smack (a show I haven't watched since before Mania) and my desire to watch both shows has been at an all time low personally the last month and I'm a pretty die-hard fan.
I'd say at least I'm still excited for the PPVs but the next one is a Randy vs Jinder match for the WWE Championship and I honestly don't think I could book a match with current roster talent I'm less interested in seeing...
Bruce Springsteen
Member
Smackdown isn't any better, in fact it's worse
Fast Forward
Member
BTW, I don't think it is any signal micro issue, like who WWE is or is not pushing, like Roman Reigns. Like, even if a Internet favorite was on top of Raw, like AJ Styles, I think the ratings would largely be unchanged. Rather, it's the macro issue of the general direction of the product/business. General booking issues. Issues, BTW, people have been talking about for many years now, long before Roman Reigns even was part of the company, let alone being pushed.
That being said, if you want to blame any signal element, it would DEFINITELY be the show being 3+ hours. There was a clear change in the ratings pattern when that became the norm.
That being said, if you want to blame any signal element, it would DEFINITELY be the show being 3+ hours. There was a clear change in the ratings pattern when that became the norm.
pretty done
Member
Jinder vs. Orton will be a 1 star match
SallyIsNow
Banned
The sub 2 mil thread is gonna be lit
Professor Beef
Banned
I agree, Jinder is going to be a star.
The only thing Jinder has done anything good was stealing the belt but anyone could have done that.
I can't take him seriously when 2-3 years ago, he was part of the JOB Squad.
Same with Slater but they had the smart idea making a odd couple tag team and making them work.
Jinder got punked by a football player.
I can't take him seriously when 2-3 years ago, he was part of the JOB Squad.
Same with Slater but they had the smart idea making a odd couple tag team and making them work.
Jinder got punked by a football player.
Your basically blaming a bunch of actors for being stuck in Uwe Boll movies and being mad they can't break out. There is no one like Kenny in the WWE because they wouldn't allow him to do the stuff he does. so yes they would turn him into another Dolph Ziggler which is a huge problem . Big E also comes off so much better outside of the wwe. anderson and gallows were way better in new japan. Also no a lot of people who are huge in other parts of entertainment aren't crazy and some are. Thats a personal choice thing. Your company has a problem when your biggest stars of the past talk about how they couldn't make in today's WWE. Goldberg came back and sounded so much more natural on the mic because he wasn't on a script . Also you don't really​ know how any wrestlers were in the 80s or 90s in there personal life because there wasn't soical media youtube and a 24 hour news coverage. Your idea of them is what you were told . That's not the case anymore you see so much more of these guys. You never got to see how sad and pathetic a lot of those guys were back in the day.
Evening Musuko
Black Korea
Roman's booking has been shit for 2 years though. Retiring Undertaker probably doesn't help if you're trying to make him into a likable guy to build the company around. I mean, he's not a bad wrestler, but it's not like there's any reason to cheer for the dude. At least he has good matches? But I was told that match quality doesn't matter...
Here's my take on why the ratings are dropping:
1) 3 hours is 1.5 hours too many.
2) Subpar announcing that lends no favors to the in-ring action across the board for all programming.
3) Wrestling talent pool either isn't what it once was in the 70s,80s, or 90s or the WWE is awful at training guys on how to cut promos or stay relevant once they hit RAW.
4) The belts all look like toys
5) The crowd has become too smart, wanting to be more a part of the show than the talent in the ring.
6) The talent is walking on egg shells, thus no one takes any chances anymore, this may contribute to problem 3 as well
7) They buried some of their big talent a few years back with the Rock and I don't think they ever fully recovered from it.
1) 3 hours is 1.5 hours too many.
2) Subpar announcing that lends no favors to the in-ring action across the board for all programming.
3) Wrestling talent pool either isn't what it once was in the 70s,80s, or 90s or the WWE is awful at training guys on how to cut promos or stay relevant once they hit RAW.
4) The belts all look like toys
5) The crowd has become too smart, wanting to be more a part of the show than the talent in the ring.
6) The talent is walking on egg shells, thus no one takes any chances anymore, this may contribute to problem 3 as well
7) They buried some of their big talent a few years back with the Rock and I don't think they ever fully recovered from it.
Fuck lmao.
To those, nah. Their talent pool is actually the best it's ever been in WWE history. They've also trained guys well. The problem is that not many get a chance to cut their "own promo" (Dean Ambrose for example, one of their best guys on the mic, only recently began cutting his own promos a few years ago) and they give them a script. Some guys can toss the script, some can't.
The belts have also been improved a great amount.
The main issue revolves the company micromanaging many stars thus they not only get a chance to cut their own promos, they get their characters held back, they can't do everything they wanna do in the ring and in turn you combine that with storylines that they can't evolve themselves? You get a bad product.
Fast Forward
Member
Forget about the quality of the match.
The fact they took a guy in Jinder who was a gloried jobber to world title contender over night, to me, is a example of a bigger problem with the company. Not only does it do zero favors for respecting the value of the title, it's also shows a total lack of logic in the booking, and it shows a clear lack of planning in the booking.
Like, really? Jinder should have been built up for a few months before he challenged for the title, so we could buy into this match. However, instead of all of that, BC WWE changes their mind all of the time, WWE suddenly flips a switch on a guy, and the booking makes no sense as a result.
Look, I get it. WWE wanted a star for the Indian market, and Jinder was their choice. That's fine. That's a fine idea. However, this was a really dumb way to go about said idea.
Professor Beef
Banned
You act like he was handed a title shot without having a match lmao
He won it in a six-man match where he cheated to win. The booking was perfectly fine.
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