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WWE Raw Ratings: Viewership Hits Record Low

Not coming back. Enough.

Then its doomed. There's very few left with personality and flair, so their Mic skills suck too. The writing is horrific. Their cards are a joke.

The attitude era didn't even have the skill sets they have at their disposal now and it still was popular because the fantasy story lines, the feuds, and characters people liked.

Shinsuke and Styles can't carry everything. And look how poorly they're handling them.
 
Plus isn't live sports ratings are down as well. NFL was down and so was NASCAR.
NFL is "down" compared to the huge highs they were doing in 2015. They are not doing decade lows or even near it. NCAA basketball had a record high in the past 12 years for its Final Four. NBA is getting strong ratings for its playoffs on ESPN.

Raw, in contrast, hits record lows since the numbers in 1997 going against MNF and WCW. They have no competition or excuses but themselves.
 
I honest to god don't think going "back to the attitude era" is going to fix the problems that they are having.

Attitude Era really just means going to back to exciting storylines and fun characters. So I don't know why it wouldn't fix it.

Take Eddie Guerrero and Chyna.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvAVa7kaVyg

It was a compelling storyline, made you care, characters made sense, it made you want to watch each week to see what would happen next.
 
By catering to smarks you trap yourself into stagnant and slowing decreasing profits: by placating the diehard fans who won't go anywhere and gearing your product to their niche tastes you sacrifice opportunities to expand the fan base.

This is true for every form of entertainment.

Ratings have been in free fall with smark favs well established as regular players.

Well, we're coming off Wrestlemania season which was entirely dedicated to the casuals. We had:

- A Shane McMahon match
- A Hardy Boyz return
- A John Cena proposing to Nikki Bella match
- A Triple H authority match
- A Randy Orton winning the Universal belt match
- Brock vs Goldberg
- An Undertaker / Reigns match

That card and the build up to it, is entirely for the mainstream. The past 6 months I've had smarks telling us that wrestlemania isnt for smarks, its for the people. And honestly, its been shit. And the ratings reflect that.

Its especially galling since wrestling everywhere else is fucking tremendous right now. I can see Okada with my own eyes. I KNOW wrestling can be fucking good. WWE has the talent too. They are just really fucking shit with writing and storylines.
 
Then its doomed. There's very few left with personality and flair, so their Mic skills suck too. The writing is horrific. Their cards are a joke.

The attitude era didn't even have the skill sets they have at their disposal now and it still was popular because the fantasy story lines, the feuds, and characters people liked.

Shinsuke and Styles can't carry everything. And look how poorly they're handling them.

I can't even. We live in a world where AJ Styles is one of the top five WWE acts, bet Cena clean twice, beat a McMahon at Mania and gets huge pops...

... but he's treated poorly.

DB and Punk took years to get to where AJ got. In fact, neither of those two were ever at a "beat Cena clean twice" level. AJ didn't even play a chicken shit heel. Cena called him out on The Club interfering, so they left and AJ beat Cena CLEAN.

If you don't realise how atypical that is and how huge that is, I question whether you've actually been following wrestling. That was passing the torch. And the second AJ goes to Raw, he's becoming their number one guy.
 
2 hour long show (2 hours 30 minutes with commercials), with more character moments and more people would watch.

WWE has refused to adapt for too long. People want to care about these characters in more dimensions than just "He's a good guy and smiles during his entrance so I cheer for him!". Honestly, the reality TV integration was the most forward thinking they Vince (or whoever gets credit for that idea) has ever done. If they want to stick to kayfabe, the most modern way is to have supplemental shows that are well produced (i.e people will want to watch them) that flesh out the characters more.

Long gone are the days where viewers tune in to see people fight.
 
The talent is there, but the booking is awful. Feels like everyone gets out of a storyline 50/50 in wins and nobody ever gets put over. It feels like there are tiers based on what hour of Raw you get put on rather than what belt you should be going for.

They keep pushing the wrong people, despite the crowd making their own decisions on who they like. I get that you can't give the crowd everything it wants, but continually shoving the wrong people into the spotlight while pushing others out doesn't make folks want to watch.

Does Raw even have a top belt anymore? Absentee champion, sure, but you could do interesting things with it from a narrative sense. Right now it's basically out of sight out of mind, and the lack of a top prize in the brand hurts.

The commentary is devoid of personality and does little to drive excitement or any sort of narrative. Jim Ross was incredible at ratcheting up the excitement in even the worst matches. They don't have anyone that can craft or drive home a narrative like he did, nor do they have an equivalent to his foil in Lawler.

All of this, for me, makes a pretty awful show I don't feel like watching.
 
The talent is there, but the booking is awful. Feels like everyone gets out of a storyline 50/50 in wins and nobody ever gets put over. It feels like there are tiers based on what hour of Raw you get put on rather than what belt you should be going for.

They keep pushing the wrong people, despite the crowd making their own decisions on who they like. I get that you can't give the crowd everything it wants, but continually shoving the wrong people into the spotlight while pushing others out doesn't make folks want to watch.

Does Raw even have a top belt anymore? Absentee champion, sure, but you could do interesting things with it from a narrative sense. Right now it's basically out of sight out of mind, and the lack of a top prize in the brand hurts.

The commentary is devoid of personality and does little to drive excitement or any sort of narrative. Jim Ross was incredible at ratcheting up the excitement in even the worst matches. They don't have anyone that can craft or drive home a narrative like he did, nor do they have an equivalent to his foil in Lawler.

All of this, for me, makes a pretty awful show I don't feel like watching.

The people the crowds like aren't neccesarily draws. This is the disconnect that the fans don't seem to understand. Pushing Sami or AJ or even Nakamira as the top guy isn't going to get randoms and casuals to give a shit. Wrestling abiltiy and ringsmanship has never mattered to the audiences that made wrestling what it was when it was at its peaks (in the mid 80s and during the attitude era).
 
I can't even. We live in a world where AJ Styles is one of the top five WWE acts, bet Cena clean twice, beat a McMahon at Mania and gets huge pops...

... but he's treated poorly.

DB and Punk took years to get to where AJ got. In fact, neither of those two were ever at a "beat Cena clean twice" level. AJ didn't even play a chicken shit heel. Cena called him out on The Club interfering, so they left and AJ beat Cena CLEAN.

If you don't realise how atypical that is and how huge that is, I question whether you've actually been following wrestling. That was passing the torch. And the second AJ goes to Raw, he's becoming their number one guy.
Lol
He "passed the torch", took a nice ole vaykay, filmed some shit while AJ busted his ass carrying Smackdown, then came back to take it at the Rumble.
 
Attitude Era really just means going to back to exciting storylines and fun characters. So I don't know why it wouldn't fix it.

Take Eddie Guerrero and Chyna.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvAVa7kaVyg

It was a compelling storyline, made you care, characters made sense, it made you want to watch each week to see what would happen next.

I remember that time.

Chyna's story lines with the ICC with Jericho as well were awesome.

Chyna/HHH -v- everyone else was awesome.

Show went downhill when she left. treated her like crap. BOOO!!!!
 
Also none of the current crop have any charisma or stage presence.

The Rock
Stone Cold Steve Austin
The Undertaker
Nick Folley
Big Show
HHH
Chyna
Jericho
Kurt Angle

On any given RAW show in the 00s this was the line up, there was always something well over the top going on, and when there was a slow episode the next one would be massive. Sometimes it was better than the PPV. But now it is too clean cut almost, we wont get anyone like these people again, John Cena was a modern day "The Rock" but there has been nothing to fill the void of campy villans (Undertaker/HHH/Chyna), All American Heroes (Angle, Nick Folley), and people who just mess with things fro the shock (Big Show/Steve Austin
 
Also none of the current crop have any charisma or stage presence.

The Rock
Stone Cold Steve Austin
The Undertaker
Nick Folley
Big Show
HHH
Chyna
Jericho
Kurt Angle

On any given RAW show in the 00s this was the line up, there was always something well over the top going on, and when there was a slow episode the next one would be massive. Sometimes it was better than the PPV. But now it is too clean cut almost, we wont get anyone like these people again, John Cena was a modern day "The Rock" but there has been nothing to fill the void of campy villans (Undertaker/HHH/Chyna), All American Heroes (Angle, Nick Folley), and people who just mess with things fro the shock (Big Show/Steve Austin
Ahh, good ole Nick folley
 
Also none of the current crop have any charisma or stage presence.

The Rock
Stone Cold Steve Austin
The Undertaker
Nick Folley
Big Show
HHH
Chyna
Jericho
Kurt Angle

On any given RAW show in the 00s this was the line up, there was always something well over the top going on, and when there was a slow episode the next one would be massive. Sometimes it was better than the PPV. But now it is too clean cut almost, we wont get anyone like these people again, John Cena was a modern day "The Rock" but there has been nothing to fill the void of campy villans (Undertaker/HHH/Chyna), All American Heroes (Angle, Nick Folley), and people who just mess with things fro the shock (Big Show/Steve Austin
They do, they are just not booked to.
 
Well, we're coming off Wrestlemania season which was entirely dedicated to the casuals. We had:

- A Shane McMahon match
- A Hardy Boyz return
- A John Cena proposing to Nikki Bella match
- A Triple H authority match
- A Randy Orton winning the Universal belt match
- Brock vs Goldberg
- An Undertaker / Reigns match

That card and the build up to it, is entirely for the mainstream. The past 6 months I've had smarks telling us that wrestlemania isnt for smarks, its for the people. And honestly, its been shit. And the ratings reflect that.

Its especially galling since wrestling everywhere else is fucking tremendous right now. I can see Okada with my own eyes. I KNOW wrestling can be fucking good. WWE has the talent too. They are just really fucking shit with writing and storylines.

Debatable whether true or not, but even granting it's true...

Most people don't care.

The amount of people that do care may, in fact, be the majority of the fan base left! But the total size of the fan base, of which they're an increasing percentage, has shrank significantly.
 
One problem that gets overlooked is the stale presentation and structure of the show. Raw today might have more money pumped into it, a PG rating, and the faces on the screen are different, but it's effectively the same show it was in 1999. But the TV landscape has changed so dramatically; there's so much quality TV for all demos that it gets harder and harder to justify watching Raw over other things unless you're a lifelong fan.

They need to change up the whole look and feel of the show. Probably starting with accepting that kayfabe is dead and using that to change their philosophy on how they build characters. Not treating it more like sport - everyone knows it's not - but leaning more into the fact that it's a scripted show. Look at things like Lucha Underground or the Broken Universe. WWE doesn't need to copy that stuff exactly, but it might be the direction they need to consider.

Their current product is too stale; no sense of style or identity. And while people want to put that on the talent - debateable; I'd say it's case by case - I think it boils down to the general philosophy running the entire show. The overly scripted promos, the constant insertion of corporate speak into promos and commentary, the overly clean look of everything, the "WWE style" that limits performers in the ring. It all adds up to a unexciting product.

Also, for all the hashtags and whatnot Cole screams at me every week, they suck at utilizing social media to galvanize their current fanbase and entice new viewers. Shows like "Game of Thrones" and "The Walking Dead" have shown that having a loyal social media fanbase talking excitedly about your show can work wonders for attracting viewers. However, WWE is so driven by contempt for their fanbase, so bad at responding to audience feedback, and so incapable of understanding current media trends that most of what you get on Twitter and the like is people complaining about the show. The end result is that they're losing viewers while the channels they could use to start building a new fanbase aren't doing that.

Maybe all of this changes once Vince is out of power, maybe not. NXT is good, but if it's a case study on HHH's vision of wrestling's future, I'm doubtful it's going to do much but satisfy people who were going to watch anyway.

Also none of the current crop have any charisma or stage presence.

The Rock
Stone Cold Steve Austin
The Undertaker
Nick Folley
Big Show
HHH
Chyna
Jericho
Kurt Angle

On any given RAW show in the 00s this was the line up, there was always something well over the top going on, and when there was a slow episode the next one would be massive. Sometimes it was better than the PPV. But now it is too clean cut almost, we wont get anyone like these people again, John Cena was a modern day "The Rock" but there has been nothing to fill the void of campy villans (Undertaker/HHH/Chyna), All American Heroes (Angle, Nick Folley), and people who just mess with things fro the shock (Big Show/Steve Austin
If these guys came into WWE today:

The Rock - Would still be Rocky Mavia because Vince ain't ever gonna admit he was wrong. Pushed to the moon despite fans pure hatred of him.
Stone Cold Steve Austin - Would have been future endeavored after he failed to get over in the midcard as The Ringmaster. Smarks would complain he never got a chance
The Undertaker - See: Bray Wyatt. For Kane's fate, see Erick Rowan/Luke Harper.
Mick Folley - Midcard joke character
Big Show - probably doing the same thing he's doing now, minus the legacy that legitimizes him. Endeavoured after five years or so
HHH - Probably okay cause he'd politic his way into Vince's heart. Even in this alternate timeline, HHH finds a way.
Chyna - Actually probably okay given the current state of the women's division. Would still be jobbing to the horsewomen more often than not, tho.
Jericho - Would be treading water in the Crusierweight division
Kurt Angle - Would be over huge in NXT, immediately ruined on the main roster

I'm not saying the current roster doesn't have it's problems, but save a few talents with luck on their side, no amount of talent or charisma is going to overcome the problems at the core of WWE's modern product (writing, structure, presentation, etc).
 
Wonder if WWE is immune to Trump fuckery. Who knows how much of the fan base even cares about stuff like this.

Me. I was glued to the TV.
 
They need to change up the whole look and feel of the show. Probably starting with accepting that kayfabe is dead and using that to change their philosophy on how they build characters. Not treating it more like sport - everyone knows it's not - but leaning more into the fact that it's a scripted show. Look at things like Lucha Underground or the Broken Universe. WWE doesn't need to copy that stuff exactly, but it might be the direction they need to consider.

They just need to pick one or the other. If they want it to come off as real, then it needs to be treated a lot more seriously. It needs to look like WCW in its prime. If they want to say it's fake, then it needs to be a lot more crazier. Stop with using real names. Have more colorful characters. Have segments with magic and guns and stuff. Vince Russo had the right idea here when he had Kane shooting fireballs at X-pac.
 
They just need to pick one or the other. If they want it to come off as real, then it needs to be treated a lot more seriously. It needs to look like WCW in its prime. If they want to say it's fake, then it needs to be a lot more crazier. Stop with using real names. Have more colorful characters. Have segments with magic and guns and stuff. Vince Russo had the right idea here when he had Kane shooting fireballs at X-pac.

Basically. Look at Matt Hardy. Dude got the most over he's ever been - in TNA, of all places - by playing a crazy rich man with magic powers and a robot drone fleet. It was campy as fuck, but entertaining.

And it's not even like the whole show needs to be like that. Heath Slater was, for a time, was one of the most over babyfaces and his character is just "hapless goof trying to provide for his kids." In both cases, you have a character that audiences can latch on to. There's other examples too: The New Day, Breezango, Dean Ambrose, The Miz, Cena, Bray Wyatt, etc. All have been used to varying degrees of success, of course.

So many of the talent now are just cast as "dude/girl who wrestles," matched with a corporate approved nickname the commentary will repeat ad nauseum. Which is great if you're an AJ Styles or a Shinsuke Nakamura who can get over entirely in the ring. But guys like that are few and far between, it seems.
 
Wyatt is probably the worse booked wrestler of all time.

the guy could´ve been the next taker but booking screwed everything up.

if he appeared on the attitude era he would´ve been HUGE!

and dont come with HHH´s Phylosofy of "you have to get them over"(meaning we) because wyatt was over has hell when he debut and when he teased going against HHH for the title.
 
Also none of the current crop have any charisma or stage presence.

The Rock
Stone Cold Steve Austin
The Undertaker
Nick Folley
Big Show
HHH
Chyna
Jericho
Kurt Angle

On any given RAW show in the 00s this was the line up, there was always something well over the top going on, and when there was a slow episode the next one would be massive. Sometimes it was better than the PPV. But now it is too clean cut almost, we wont get anyone like these people again, John Cena was a modern day "The Rock" but there has been nothing to fill the void of campy villans (Undertaker/HHH/Chyna), All American Heroes (Angle, Nick Folley), and people who just mess with things fro the shock (Big Show/Steve Austin

Those guys were allowed to do what they did back then though. The current roster isn't allowed any real freedom, everything's driven by writers/creative. That same group in today's environment would not have turned out the same at all.
 
Wyatt is probably the worse booked wrestler of all time.

the guy could´ve been the next taker but booking screwed everything up.

if he appeared on the attitude era he would´ve been HUGE!

and dont come with HHH´s Phylosofy of "you have to get them over"(meaning we) because wyatt was over has hell when he debut and when he teased going against HHH for the title.

Snookie has more wins at WrestleMania than Bray Wyatt
 
Wyatt is probably the worse booked wrestler of all time.

the guy could´ve been the next taker but booking screwed everything up.

if he appeared on the attitude era he would´ve been HUGE!

and dont come with HHH´s Phylosofy of "you have to get them over"(meaning we) because wyatt was over has hell when he debut and when he teased going against HHH for the title.

In the Attitude Era, he would've been overshadowed by other characters with actual presence and charisma, when he's just a chubby guy spiting nonsense who looks like the ptorotypicsl neckbeard. He would've been jobbing to Shawn Statsiak on Heat. Or been just above Mideon in the Ministry.

As for the scripting thing, it's partly true. But there are a lot of guys who don't seem charismatic or seem to know how to speak well even in OOC things. I mean, Seth Rollins or Finn Balor are boring promos with or without a script.
 
Basically. Look at Matt Hardy. Dude got the most over he's ever been - in TNA, of all places - by playing a crazy rich man with magic powers and a robot drone fleet. It was campy as fuck, but entertaining.

And it's not even like the whole show needs to be like that. Heath Slater was, for a time, was one of the most over babyfaces and his character is just "hapless goof trying to provide for his kids." In both cases, you have a character that audiences can latch on to. There's other examples too: The New Day, Breezango, Dean Ambrose, The Miz, Cena, Bray Wyatt, etc. All have been used to varying degrees of success, of course.

So many of the talent now are just cast as "dude/girl who wrestles," matched with a corporate approved nickname the commentary will repeat ad nauseum. Which is great if you're an AJ Styles or a Shinsuke Nakamura who can get over entirely in the ring. But guys like that are few and far between, it seems.

THIS, THIS, THIS.

I completely agree. Pick one direction or the other. I'm 100% confident they went the more realistic route as a result of UFC (in fact, I recall reading a HHH interview where he specifically said that) and I think it was a mistake.
 
WWE is obsessed with pissing off their crowds. I will never understand why they keep making people job in their hometowns.

Vince still thinks that heels getting heat because the heal beat the hometown hero is heat that will stick around beyond the moment that match ends. He also thinks "insult local sports team" works still
 
Some of you don't get it. WWE has been as profitable as ever. There is no real incentive for them to change. Why would they? No one else is even close to being a threat. The WWE network is profitable. They still sell a lot of merch. They are getting a lot of cash from sponsors. There is no real incentive to change unless all that changes.
 
Some of you don't get it. WWE has been as profitable as ever. There is no real incentive for them to change. Why would they? No one else is even close to being a threat. The WWE network is profitable. They still sell a lot of merch. They are getting a lot of cash from sponsors. There is no real incentive to change unless all that changes.

They make bad TV. The greatest crime of all in America.

And they're still coasting off their last TV deal. Raw was pulling in just under 5 million a week back then. The next deal will not be so generous.
 
Some of you don't get it. WWE has been as profitable as ever. There is no real incentive for them to change. Why would they? No one else is even close to being a threat. The WWE network is profitable. They still sell a lot of merch. They are getting a lot of cash from sponsors. There is no real incentive to change unless all that changes.

Profitable is good, but everything has been decaying. Ratings, attendance, etc. That's not the sign of a health business, but relying on more on a dedicating fanbase. You have to charge more to less people and as stated, new contracts aren't going be as nice.
 
WWE is mediocre by design. It'll remain a consistent sludge with slight peaks because being interesting entails taking risks, which they clearly see no need for. It's an inconsequential fake sporting event where they can't even bother to create fake stakes when that's basically they reason you're there.
 
Right. So they push Dean Ambrose (LOL) as the RAW champ and Blandy Boreton as the SD champ. I'm sure randoms and casuals are salivating at the mouth, Vince.

I'm saying it doesn't matter who they push. The problem is the product as a whole and the system and mechanism used to develop guys, so even IWC faves who "paid their dues" and are Indy or Japanese darlings aren't going to move the needle in the grand scheme of things. Steve Austin or The Rock would not have happened in the modern structure of the WWE.
 
Right. So they push Dean Ambrose (LOL) as the RAW champ and Blandy Boreton as the SD champ. I'm sure randoms and casuals are salivating at the mouth, Vince.

Pretty sure casuals love those 2 more Sami Zayn and Nakamura. They're actually known in the eyes of casual fans.
 
Ambrose, yes, but not Orton.

Orton is way more of a bankable, known quantity than Sami zayn or even Nakamura right now. Much like Cena or even a guy like Big Show, he's a guy who is seasoned, who you can send out to do the talk show circuit, who can be counted on to headline cards or house shows. It's no secret why they keep him around and at the position he's in, even if to hardcore fans he's "Blandy Boreton".
 
TIL that Monday Night Raw is three hours long.

The longest PPV when I was watching was three hours long. Some of them were two.

With a show that long every week, I bet people are indeed getting kinda bored with that content. I can't imagine they have enough compelling content to fill that time.
 
The current era is the early 90s repeated. A prolonged hangover from a better time.

When HHH gets the reins I think it'll improve. Vince has stopped changing to meet the market creatively (well he is a legend anyway and old as dirt now).
 
TIL that Monday Night Raw is three hours long.

The longest PPV when I was watching was three hours long. Some of them were two.

With a show that long every week, I bet people are indeed getting kinda bored with that content. I can't imagine they have enough compelling content to fill that time.
I would kill for 3 hour raws with the 90s roster
 
Ambrose, yes, but not Orton.

image
 
I would kill for 3 hour raws with the 90s roster

I remember when it went two hours and it felt like a party.

I also remember when Nitro started going to like 10:03 and switching over in anticipation each week.

Competition is rarely a bad thing.
 
Some of you don't get it. WWE has been as profitable as ever. There is no real incentive for them to change. Why would they? No one else is even close to being a threat. The WWE network is profitable. They still sell a lot of merch. They are getting a lot of cash from sponsors. There is no real incentive to change unless all that changes.

The core reason for them been profitable is their TV deal. That is helping them a lot right now, and will continue to help the out until 2019 when the deal will need to be negotiated.

They are losing money of social media (Youtube, Twitter), which may in turn be hurting ratings, as anything of worth is available as a 3 minutes clip a few hours after airing live. They are investing money into pointless WWE Network shows (extra PPVs, reality shows, and animation, that are not helping the subscriber number rise).

The main source of income will always be TV, and they are not going to get such a nice contract if their rating continues to drop and/or stagnates for the next 2 years. There IS a financial incentive to change their ways, and the deadline is 2 year away.
 
The current era is the early 90s repeated. A prolonged hangover from a better time.

When HHH gets the reins I think it'll improve. Vince has stopped changing to meet the market creatively (well he is a legend anyway and old as dirt now).

I'm not wasting brain juice on expecting HHH to fix anything. Vince will be a brain in a jar booking Roman in the main event at Wrestlemania 20 years from now.
 
They make bad TV. The greatest crime of all in America.

And they're still coasting off their last TV deal. Raw was pulling in just under 5 million a week back then. The next deal will not be so generous.

Profitable is good, but everything has been decaying. Ratings, attendance, etc. That's not the sign of a health business, but relying on more on a dedicating fanbase. You have to charge more to less people and as stated, new contracts aren't going be as nice.

Raw and Smackdown are still the highest rated programming the USA network has by far, it being their primary driver as far as ad revenue is concerned. Even if the next contract isn't as rich, Vince and co. are still supplemented by the WWE Network.

If people stop buying merch, stop going to shows, and most importantly, stop subscribing to the WWE Network. You would probably see wholesale changes. This is nothing new guys.
 
In the Attitude Era, he would've been overshadowed by other characters with actual presence and charisma, when he's just a chubby guy spiting nonsense who looks like the ptorotypicsl neckbeard..

thats a booking error.

wyatt character in NXT was a possessed cult leader by the devil. go see his promos when he´s talking to someone , the shirts with references to satan is an example.

the rambling made total sense if u actually listen to what he was saying.

but then they had to screw everything up like they usually do...
 
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