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[KeithFranklin]

As you know, i'm in the "next-gen games need next-gen media" camp, but i think you're right with this post. Microsoft putting HD-DVD in the Xbox360 sends the message that they don't have faith in DVD long-term.

But the truth is Microsoft only cares because they developed the iHD menu system used in HD-DVDs. This is important to Microsoft for 2 main reasons:

#1: licensing money (obvious)

#2: the blu-ray competitor is running Java. Java, which was damn-near defeated in the mid-90's is coming back in a big way. Most university Comp Sci programs now use it as the core programming language. Microsoft developed the C# language specifically to replace Java, and they seem to be losing that battle. And now, Sun is becoming a bigger player in the open-source world, Microsoft's biggest threat on the horizon.

C# is not losing the battle. Our business is booming and the biggest problem is getting smart developers up to speed on .NET with knowing best practices. We havent lost a project to Java in 2 years. By the way it is the .NET Framework that matters not the particular language. About 50% of our work is C# and 50% Visual Basic .NET.

 

[KingJ2002]

Now you are just trying to piss off stinkles

lol... nah.

for the record... I really doubt microsoft would do it and screw over the millions of fans waiting to "finish the fight". Im actually against the use of that triple layer dvd. it's going to add even more confusion to customers who are having a hard time grasping the fact that there's 2 versions of the 360. Now 2-3 versions of the same game?

- a core bareboned package

- a premium edition game with collectors tin

- and a HD premium edition game with collectors tin


this generation seems to be led by the fickle.

 

[Hunter D]

or even just the bonus movie content? Instead of wasting time with packaging 2 dvds for the special editions, they'll just have the hd-dvd/dvd disc that people with hd-dvd players can watch while people without it will be screwed in that regard.

they may still adhere to the "no games on hd-dvd" thing, but they didn't say ANYTHING about the extra content.

but even then, they could still do the games on HD-DVD once there's enough of the integrated ones out there...

People always say this. How will companies fit bonus features on to one disk with the main content? The biggest reason for the bigger disk size is the size of HD video. 2 disk DVD sets will still be 2 disk HDVD or BRD sets just encoded at the higher resolution.

 

[plagiarize]

People always say this. How will companies fit bonus features on to one disk with the main content? The biggest reason for the bigger disk size is the size of HD video. 2 disk DVD sets will still be 2 disk HDVD or BRD sets just encoded at the higher resolution.

so far there's been very little in the way of difference between special features on HD-DVDs/BluRay and DVDs. what you may well see is either more special features at normal (crappy) DVD extras bit rate, or same special features at higher bit rate.

either way, its something both formats should really be leveraging to give people the extra content incentive that DVD benefitted so much from.

 

[davepoobond]

but what i was thinking was that they could "cut off" certain content from DVD-only xbox360 users and only have it beneficial for people with HD-DVD players attached to their xbox360 in some way.

 

[Mr_Furious]

As the consumer i love options, as long as they make no games for it it's all good.

Only if you're one who hasn't already purchased a 360. I find this news unsettling to say the least. I am now getting screwed as an early adopter. Honestly, I don't like how MS has handled their 360 so far. First there was 2 options at retail that forced developers not to not only rely on a HDD for their games but also limited XBLA games to 64MB limit. Now it looks like MS is starting to be more flexible with their 64MB rule which isn't surprising. But to further complicate things, if true, there's going to be a uber-360 that probably should've been the only machine MS should've released in the first place. MS will likely get rid of the core unit eventually and make the HDD standard which would then allow developers to use HDD for streaming and such. Now if the HD-DVD version of the system takes off and is in overwhelming demand, they could possibly make it their core machine. MS acts like they can do whatever they want, well because they're MS and I as the consumer am left frustrated.

edit: sorry if this opinion was already expressed but I haven't read the whole thread.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

Six pages later, I still don't understand how people think this is a bad idea. None of the arguments presented are even logical.

 

[Raistlin]

If it is a DVR ... with dual cablecard slots, and an interface that can compare to TiVo's ... I'll get it.


Otherwise, its TiVo 3 for me.


I really wish I would have purchased a TiVo and the lifetime membership before it went away. The monthly price is pretty steep IMO.

 

[rastex]

Six pages later, I still don't understand how people think this is a bad idea. None of the arguments presented are even logical.

Logic? Who needs that.

Chicken feet high on the soap that's right.

 

[Stinkles]

Now you are just trying to piss off stinkles

Nah, this thread became hysterical comedy after about four posts. Everyone in here hinting about games on HD DVD ought to get special comedy awards. Like clown noses made of gold.

 

[Mr_Furious]

Six pages later, I still don't understand how people think this is a bad idea. None of the arguments presented are even logical.

Having too many options can confuse consumers and confused consumers may go elsewhere for s "simpler" (all-in-one) solution.

Option 1 Core Unit
Option 2 Core Unit w/ HDD
Option 3 Core Unit w/ HD-DVD
Option 4 Core Unit w/ HDD & HD-DVD (external)
Option 5 Premium Unit
Option 6 Premium Unit w/ HD-DVD (external)
Option 7 HD-DVD Uber-Premium

You may appreciate this many options, especially if you weren't one of the first million that already purchased a 360. You're probably a more educated consumer than most that actually does a little homework before buying the latest and greatest electronics gadgets but you are not representative of the majority.

 

[RaijinFY]

Having too many options can confuse consumers and confused consumers may go elsewhere for s "simpler" (all-in-one) solution.

Option 1 Core Unit
Option 2 Core Unit w/ HDD
Option 3 Core Unit w/ HD-DVD
Option 4 Core Unit w/ HDD & HD-DVD (external)
Option 5 Premium Unit
Option 6 Premium Unit w/ HD-DVD (external)
Option 7 HD-DVD Uber-Premium

You may appreciate this many options, especially if you weren't one of the first million that already purchased a 360. You're probably a more educated consumer than most that actually does a little homework before buying the latest and greatest electronics gadgets but you are not representative of the majority.

imo, some of these packs will disappear.

 

[-Rogue5-]

It just sucks being forced into progress.

I prefer being forced into progression, rather than buying a system and a little over a year later having a significantly improved version released. If I'd of known they were going to do this shit (which they've denied multiple times) I never would have bought a 360 until the complete version with HDDVD was available. If MS actually do this it proves Sony are right to include blu-ray (even if it was just used for movies.)

As a side note; if this happens (and I'm taking these "optical industry" guides with a giant grain of salt), I'll be using my warrantee to swap for the real premium unit (paying the difference).

 

[Raistlin]

Having too many options can confuse consumers and confused consumers may go elsewhere for s "simpler" (all-in-one) solution.

Option 1 Core Unit
Option 2 Core Unit w/ HDD
Option 3 Core Unit w/ HD-DVD
Option 4 Core Unit w/ HDD & HD-DVD (external)
Option 5 Premium Unit
Option 6 Premium Unit w/ HD-DVD (external)
Option 7 HD-DVD Uber-Premium

You may appreciate this many options, especially if you weren't one of the first million that already purchased a 360. You're probably a more educated consumer than most that actually does a little homework before buying the latest and greatest electronics gadgets but you are not representative of the majority.

If the assumption is that the HD-DVD actually CAN be used for games ...

... no, I don't appreciate it.


UNDERUTILIZATIONBYDEVELOPERSTON

 

[HokieJoe]

HD-DVD/DVD layered discs are coming out, so it is possible for games to be on HD-DVD. probably the "extended game" will be on the HD-DVD layer, which will blow chunks.

that's the worst case scenario probably.

It's possible that they could offer a hybrid flipper disc with Halo the movie, on one side, and Halo 3 the game, on the other side. Or, akin to what Jarosh was saying earlier, they could offer special edition games on HD-DVD. Except they could do a hybrid disc and use the HD side for a special edition game, and the regular edition game on the DVD-9 side. Hell, maybe they could offer Halo, Halo 2, and Halo 3 all on one a flipper disc. There are lots of pointless possibilities here folks.

OTOH...

I doubt that MS will do any of this- HD-DVD will be used for movies only.

However, I can see the '360AV', being a all-in-one type HD-Tivo/HD-DVD player-device offered by DirectTV. Like I said earlier, MS decision to use ATI's H.264 video decoder may play some factor here (outside of H.264-encoded HD-DVD's) as DirectTV will be using H.264 for their broadcast streams.

http://ir.ati.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=105421&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=881137&highlight=

H.264/MPEG-4 AVC
Direct broadcast satellite TV services will use the new standard, including:

* BBC HD is using H.264 for its Terrestrial (only available in the London area) and Satellite services
* DirecTV (in the United States)
* Dish Network (in the United States)
* Euro1080 (in Europe)
* Premiere (in Germany)
* ProSieben HD & Sat1 HD (in Germany, ProSiebenSat.1 Media AG)
* SkyHD (in the United Kingdom and Ireland) — the company's standard definition service continues to use MPEG-2
* Sky Italia (in Italy)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264

pointless conjecture off/

 

[RoH]

Why not just phase out the core and replace it with the premium, then replace the old premium with the build in HDVD XBOX360. that would leave only two sku's.

They could also still provide the external HDVD drive, though it would have to be capable of playing HDVD games.

I also don't like the idea of the HDVD drive simply for adding video extras, why not press two copy's of the game? 8 gigs on the DVD layer and 15gigs for the HDVD.

It should would if the new hybrid DVD disk is approved.

Question: How do HDVD drive speed stand in relation DVD drives? what would be the closest comparable speed so if this were to accrue there would be no loss in load time. Lastly in regards to the stand alone player, does usb2 have the bandwidth to support gaming on an external drive?

 

[Stinkles]

OK, 6 pages in and people are still making the same pointless wrong-headed conjecture, and they don't even believe it themselves. I'm outta this thread. I'm going to read the cool new one where people are claiming doom because the Dual Shock now has a palindrome.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I am now getting screwed as an early adopter.

Did people in Japan get screwed when Panasonic Q came out? How about when 'PSX' came out. Pioneer Laseractive?

Now if the HD-DVD version of the system takes off and is in overwhelming demand, they could possibly make it their core machine.

Bullshit and nonsense. The current core is set up to become the MS solution to hit the $199 mainstream pricepoint and it isn't going anywhere. I'd bet a lifetime ban on this. This machine, if it surfaces, is another niche product like other past solutions from Nintendo and Sony, and that's all it will ever be.

 

[Safe Bet]

Edit: Totally useless post of mine, sry.

 

[Tellaerin]

The key issue here is that NO bundle affects the actual meat of the experience--the 360games themselves.

So the lack of an HDD in the core pack doesn't affect the gameplay experience at all?

The funny thing, your argument works both ways--people lamenting how MS didn't go with an HDDVD standard out of the gate simply don't understand how the market works, what risks were truly involved, and why their multi-sku model was a wise enough decision that Sony is mimicking it.

The difference there is that Sony's multiple models offer identical functionality when it comes to playing games. Developers can count on a HDD and a high-density media drive being included in every PS3, and can take advantage of those things accordingly. X360 developers have to accomodate a userbase where some people have HDDs and others don't, which imposes certain limitations. Likewise, formats like HD-DVD and Blu-ray offer advantages to developers, but even if MS does release a version of the X360 with an integrated HD-DVD drive, it's of no benefit to game developers because actually taking advantage of it would run the risk of splitting the userbase. MS' handling of the X360 so far seems to be a textbook example of how not to offer multiple models of a console.

What's funnier, IMO, is the fact that, at one point in time, everyone was DEMANDING MS take these very actions. People wanted HD-DVD. MS announced HD-DVD addon. Then people screamed for an integrated version. Signs are now pointing to MS considering an integrated version. NOW people want to turn back time and have HD-DVD included at the outset. Absolutely ludicrous. Sorry, you can't always get what you wish for, thank god.

What's funny is how you can't seem to understand the points the people around you are making. Yes, people wanted HD-DVD, but the right time to include it would have been at launch, as part of the console, so that developers could utilize it. Not as some halfassed aftermarket add-on, or part of a 'media system' that won't play games on HD-DVD.

 

[Ryudo]

I think we can all agree the 360 should have launched with HD-DVD and a hard disk as standard with no core pack.

The fact is that it didnt, and theres not alot consumers can do about it except vote with their wallets. For a company that was so worried about consumers wishes, MS screwed up bigtime. Its better to accept defeat and move on rather than keep on beating the dead horse.

 

[shpankey]

I think we can all agree the 360 should have launched with HD-DVD and a hard disk as standard with no core pack.

say wha...? we are all definitely not agreeing to that. at least i'm not (haven't).

 

[Beer Monkey]

I think we can all agree the 360 should have launched with HD-DVD and a hard disk as standard with no core pack.

That's crazy talk. That would have meant launching against Sony this year for around the same price. Suicide, game over. Launching in 2005 = no HD-DVD, and they really had no choice.

The fact is that it didnt, and theres not alot consumers can do about it except vote with their wallets.

Or buy systems that they think are a good fit for them and which fall within their budget. For some, that may be the 360.

 

[dirtmonkey37]

Its all coming true and its going to create a big mess

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=697475&page=6&pp=30

http://videogamejocks.com/blog/2006...k-xbox-360-splinter-cell-5-and-zune-gameplay/


Black Xbox 360
250 GB HDD
Developed by Directv and Microsoft
HDMI built in
Integrated Wireless Support
Built in HD-DVD Player


Priced within $100 of the $599 PS3

Wow...That sounds really good. I have the money for that....but then I'll be broke forever....and I can't afford any games....for half a year (assuming it's like 700 or so)


That sounds really sweet though. 250GB? HD DVD? This is what the PSX should have been.