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[Nikashi]

Okay, there's at least 2 MMOs coming out for the 360 if rumours are to be believes, and MS still hasn't really said much lately about if they're going to allow the option of traditional keyboard/mouse control for games. Is anyone here in the know enough to see how tight this policy is, or if MS is going to allow for that option for the next gen?

 

[Daigoro]

is it really a policy?

didnt they say no games will require the HDD? that didnt last long did it?

 

[cyberheater]

is it really a policy?

didnt they say no games will require the HDD? that didnt last long did it?

360 that requires a HDD? Source?

 

[Juice]

360 that requires a HDD? Source?

It was confirmed during the pricing debacle that FFXI will require the HDD.

 

[Particle Physicist]

360 that requires a HDD? Source?

how are MMOs going to work without a harddrive?

 

[Juice]

how are MMOs going to work without a harddrive?

There's a common misconception that MMOs cannot function without a hard drive. I don't see why it's there. The only thing you can't do is patch an MMO without a hard drive. It's actually kind of ironic, as they're the only games where you don't even need a local save file--it's all stored on the servers.

Of course, most MMOs are released unfinished and many more need to keep handing out small content updates to keep the hardcore satisfied. That's the only thing you'd need a hard drive for, but if a console game was willing to forgo that, then it'd work just fine without one.

 

[Particle Physicist]

i see. well, someone should tell mrbob that. :: http://www.ga-forum.com/showpost.php?p=2141409&postcount=8


he even says that 512MB of internal flash memory is not enough:: http://www.ga-forum.com/showpost.php?p=2141534&postcount=16

so. um. er. i dunno.

 

[myzhi]

There's a common misconception that MMOs cannot function without a hard drive. I don't see why it's there. The only thing you can't do is patch an MMO without a hard drive. It's actually kind of ironic, as they're the only games where you don't even need a local save file--it's all stored on the servers.

Of course, most MMOs are released unfinished and many more need to keep handing out small content updates to keep the hardcore satisfied. That's the only thing you'd need a hard drive for, but if a console game was willing to forgo that, then it'd work just fine without one.

Only a little data is saved on servers, char info, game settings, and etc.. Most of data is still on stored client machine, ie graphics (huge), UI, sound, videos, and etc. Without HDD, you can't patch client data and/or provide new content. For example, WoW has released 253 MB of patch and new content since release. It's only going to get larger as time goes bye.

 

[quetz67]

Only a little data is saved on servers, char info, game settings, and etc.. Most of data is still on stored client machine, ie graphics (huge), UI, and etc. Without HDD, you can patch client data and/or provide new content. For example, WoW has released 253 MB of patch and new content since release. It's only going to get larger as time goes bye.

ever heard of memory sticks that exceed the 256MB ?

 

[myzhi]

ever heard of memory sticks that exceed the 256MB ?

People going to need 1 GB sticks. For that price, might as well use HDD. Much cheaper and way more space. End result is you still need some sort of storage media.

 

[Juice]

Only a little data is saved on servers, char info, game settings, and etc.. Most of data is still on stored client machine, ie graphics (huge), UI, sound, videos, and etc. Without HDD, you can't patch client data and/or provide new content. For example, WoW has released 253 MB of patch and new content since release. It's only going to get larger as time goes bye.

Uhh, that's exactly what I just said.

Recall that while PC games normally copy the entirety of every type of game to the hard drive en masse, on consoles they're all run off a disc. The graphics, UI, sound, videos, etc would be run off the disc on a console. And there's nothing keeping a console MMORPG from also loading its game data off the disc.

The data saved on servers is the only data that changes frequently, literally it's the save data. That eliminates the need for a save file locally. (Settings are frequently stored locally, however)

And yeah, just like I said, a console MMO without a hard drive would just be unpatchable beyond server-side hotfixes and very minor adjustments in manageably small patches.

 

[commish]

A MMO that isn't patchable is a waste of time. Who would pay for a game monthly if there was no updates or changes? The game would have a shelf life of 4 months before people got bored and left.

 

[Juice]

A MMO that isn't patchable is a waste of time. Who would pay for a game monthly if there was no updates or changes? The game would have a shelf life of 4 months before people got bored and left.

Well, MMO doesn't necessarily imply monthly fee, either. You people are stereotyping the genre left and right.

We're talking about console MMO's, and they've been few and far between.

For example, the most successful non-FFXI console MMO to date has been Phantasy Star Online. The original had no monthly fee and was very successful. The sequel had a tri-monthly fee, and was also very successful. Both were for Dreamcast (well, GameCube too), and no version had a hard drive. Patches were almost entirely handled server side.

The problem is that monthly fee MMOs are generally released before everything intended to be included is put into them because they want people to have a reason to stick around long term. If they were held up to the same standard of "don't release a game until it's done" that's been mandated by HDD-less consoles, then you're bound to wind up with a much more complete, polished experience.

 

[Tabs]

I don't really want to get in the middle of this. I just wanted to say that calling PSO an MMO is quite a stretch. It does not have a persistent world. It does not have a way to interact with other players except through questing and lobbies. It's a multiplayer action RPG, and no more an MMO than Diablo, Baldur's Gate, or Champions of Norrath.

 

[krypt0nian]

FFXI requires the HDD....its not unreasonable that given MMO standards, the others will too.

 

[Minotauro]

I don't really want to get in the middle of this. I just wanted to say that calling PSO an MMO is quite a stretch. It does not have a persistent world. It does not have a way to interact with other players except through questing and lobbies. It's a multiplayer action RPG, and no more an MMO than Diablo, Baldur's Gate, or Champions of Norrath.

Agreed, Phantasy Star Online is not an MMO.

 

[cyberheater]

I've seen speculation that FFX1 will require a HDD but I've not seen it confirmed. Does anyone have a link.

Has the exclusion of the hard drive from the Core System created a two tier Xbox 360?

A number of online reports have emerged suggesting that the Xbox 360 version of Square Enix' massively multiplayer title Final Fantasy XI will only play on versions of the console which are equipped with the hard drive.

While no confirmation or denial has been forthcoming from Square Enix itself, the reports are logical enough - in its PC and PS2 incarnations, FFXI uses the hard drive incredibly heavily to store character information and content updates.

Installation sizes on those systems are multiple gigabytes, and over the months and years of the game's operation, hundreds of megabytes of additional content, patches and expansions have been added to the game.

Therefore, it's logical that FFXI should require a hard drive to play - but it's potentially embarrassing for Microsoft, which faces the prospect of the first title it has ever secured for its platform from Square Enix not working on many Xbox 360 consoles.

The decision to make the hard drive optional has a number of consequences for the Xbox 360; many developers who have spoken to GamesIndustry.biz expressed doubt that the drive would be used in many third party games, since it will be seen as an optional peripheral.

However, the possibility that a "two tier" Xbox 360 has been created, where only those with hard drives will be able to play certain - primarily online - games, is arguably a more major concern. It remains to be seen how Microsoft plans to communicate the differences between the two versions of the system to consumers, and avoid confusion and disappointment among those expecting to be able to play MMOG titles on the Core System bundle.

 

[Flo_Evans]

The Xbox 360 consoles which were used to connect to the public server were fitted with USB keyboards. Using the combination of its controller and the additional keyboard, FFXI handled like a dream!

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/events/X05/index.html

They haven't come out and said it will require the HDD, but use a little common sense. If the x360 version is going to be on the same servers as the rest of us, they are gonna need a HDD. They just had a little update with all new stuff for halloween. They are constantly tweeking the classes and adding new armour and weapons. New quests and so on and so on.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Xbox 360 vs Keyboard and Mouse #1

360 wins!

Next up, Nintendo Revolution versus Inkjet Printer and Flatbed Scanner!

In all seriousness, I think we will see MMO that require HDD, and probably that support keyboard. I also think that no other genre like FPS will allow keyboard, let alone mouse.

Even though it's optional, I think HDD support will always have majority penetration on 360, and will have higher penetration than HDD on PS3.

 

[Kroole]

Well IMHO WoW needs both keyboard and mouse. Xbox360 players are going to have problems competing (if they are on the same servers) against the PC-players if the only thing they have is a special controller featuring a keyboard.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I'm not saying that we won't see mouse support, but I am saying that we won't likely see it for other genres.