Closing Lionhead doesn't come across well though, even if Fable Legends was going to end up a bad game. It's worse when they have fewer first party studios compared to Sony. That's where they need more investment, we heard that 1B investment into games a few years back but how's that going to happen when they have few studios with they're biggest ones fully focused on the same franchises for the foreseeable future(Halo,Gears,Forza). Xbox needs a good new franchise this gen and they seem to only be betting on Sea of Thieves for now and if that doesn't end up being great what else do they have?
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Xbox E3 Conference 6/11 2pm PST
- Thread starter jbug617
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MosquitoSmasher
Member
Why is it the first E3 for that though? Why wasn't that last year or why not actually next year? There aren't really signs of drastic changes to their first party input. No leaks either. So I wonder why people are kind of setting themselves up for disappointment. Well, potentially disappointment. We must also not forget that it was only recently that MS said we can expect the same kind of dedication that they gave to Xbox as a platform and its services for their first party. But to me that doesn't sound like we see results of that at this E3 but more likely next year.
But it should be an interesting e3 for sure, just don't have crazy high expectations. It's definitely possible MS has surprises that they are keeping close to the chest like the BC two years ago or was it last year? But I still find it odd nothing has leaked. That's good news though, because if there is something to leak I rather see that at the show.
Rumblebones
Banned
It is funny when ardent fans try to protect a corporation that several developers have gone on record to criticise, including their own former first party developers at Lionhead.
Games don't work out all the time, that's just a fact of life in the industry, but several high profile games getting gutted warrants more than the hand waving you're offering.
Sure, but I'm inclined to put more blame on the side that controls the purse strings, sets the agenda and controls the deadlines.
Sure seems like a black and white situation when you're happy to suggest the games were cancelled cause they were shit.
And no shit did people slate Scalebound when they showed it early in development on numerous occasions, pissing off Kamiya each time. Same for Legends, they gave no clear direction on Fable Legends or the future of the IP - a game Lionhead staff has gone on record to state they were forced to make or they'd get shutdown. People didn't know what to make or it.
If Microsoft put in the effort in improving the way they conduct themselves working with developers on first party games as their fans did in defending them each time, the brand would be better off.
This is my take as well. If the game was made cheaply, it probably could have turned a profit due to the MTs. But with a high profile, hefty budget and what was sure to be middling reviews, it would have just been more of a money pit.
YOU STOP IT! I will never lose hope. FH3 is an amazing game, but it doesn't come close to scratching the same itch as PGR. Nothing like cone challenges, passing challenges, and drifting through tight courses at top speed without scratching your paint job.
Why replace when you can add?
ToyMachine228
Member
Exactly. Phil has been really bad at this. He constantly tells Xbox owners and fans to have faith and that everything is under control. And I give him a lot of credit. Xbox Live is very profitable, moves like the One S, Game Pass, backward compatibility, etc have shown he is listening and is passionate. But Xbox has completely struck out and disappointed this generation when it comes to 1st party and game line up, arguably the most important part of a platform.
Scorpio is about rebooting the Xbox brand. It's about a new vision for the future of Xbox. They need to go all out and show that vision. I know they've been bit before and very recently by showing off and announcing games too early. I understand that fear. But they need to show us what there is to be excited about. Not just today or tomorrow but down the road. Phil talks about investing in first party again and asking fans to have faith...dont tell me, show me. Show me the future of the Xbox. Not just the plan for the next 12 months. I think a lot of Xbox owners and loyalists are feeling pretty left out and skeptical these days. Xbox needs to win people back. And to do that they need to go big.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Jesus people. This thread is reading exactly like every "Phil Spencer Says" thread ever right now. Stop it.
Rumblebones
Banned
For the record, I'm not hating on Xbox or Phil Spencer. I'm just not willing to give Microsoft a pass for their weak output this generation.
Especially not now Halo, Forza and Gears aren't the IPs they used to be, now they have less internal developers than before, have cancelled numerous IPs years in development, and studios close to them like Remedy and Playground going multi platform.
There's very little reason to be confident Microsoft will impress at E3, or any time soon after that, because it's just not looking good.
I'd love if it in two weeks and change from now I get called out on being totally wrong, I genuinely would like for MS to smash it this year, but I don't there's anything inherently wrong to talk about the issues presently.
Especially not now Halo, Forza and Gears aren't the IPs they used to be, now they have less internal developers than before, have cancelled numerous IPs years in development, and studios close to them like Remedy and Playground going multi platform.
There's very little reason to be confident Microsoft will impress at E3, or any time soon after that, because it's just not looking good.
I'd love if it in two weeks and change from now I get called out on being totally wrong, I genuinely would like for MS to smash it this year, but I don't there's anything inherently wrong to talk about the issues presently.
To be honest Fable needed to be rebooted, I highly doubt that no one at Lionhead wanted to make Fable Legends after playing it the game had ambitions of being MS Destiny. Which was greenlit under Phil Harrison as he was the then head of MS Games Europe.
The other problem is MS funding projects that at a certain point it is cheaper to end development than continuously stuff money into failing them. It takes two to tango in software development.
Forza Horizon is the only IP that matters.
Nothing wrong at all from wanting to MS to knock it out of the park. I have more faith in the current Xbox team then you, but we'll see in two weeks! I mean you can see Phil's vision all over Xbox now and it's a great one. Just gotta knock it out with 1st parties.
Marvel
could never
It is rather entertaining.
Rumblebones
Banned
True, the Horizon games are fun to me and I really dislike racing games, but mainline Forza seems to have lost its lustre, and with Playground going multiplat I wonder how much longer they're sticking around.
Playground has to make money and Forza 3 is their best selling of the franchise. They aren't going to leave their money maker. That would be suicide unless they hit on something big outside of FH.
Playground is opening another studio, that's all we know for sure.
I might miss the conference because I will be in surgery recovery mode, so I'm the spirit of hype I made a totally absurd E3 prediction video.
https://youtu.be/CZzbcZ7yb40
Let's see how wrong I am when it rolls around.
https://youtu.be/CZzbcZ7yb40
Let's see how wrong I am when it rolls around.
Good vid and your number 5 is something! lol
a Master Ninja
Member
Oh well.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Yeah there have only been rumors here that that MS passed on the new IP as an exclusive but nothing concrete. Was the one who came with that rumor reliable at all though?
And it seems Forza is still very popular. Didn't Horizon 3 sell really well? How well do the mainline games sell nowadays? I've never been a fan of the FM series but that's because I just am more of a arcade racing fan or like Horizon. A good mix of the two. Personally I can't get hyped at all about a new FM. No matter how good it looks.
It sold the best of the series.
And I don't believe for a second that MS passed on their new IP. If true what the fuck are they thinking?!?!?!!?!?
MosquitoSmasher
Member
I agree man. You'd think with a studio that has now proven to be very talented and really know their way around the hardware it would be pretty much a given that MS would accept the new IP as an exclusive especially when they are apparently working so hard to improve their first party efforts and are in real need of new games and studios.
But that's how we gamers look at it, who knows what MS is thinking. If it's even true of course. Nothing official yet.
I would find it completely bizarre if true. Hell, at this point I'm surprised MS doesn't own Playground. I sometimes forget they don't.
Nightengale
Member
If it's the same type of game that they're already making/have, then Phil has said in the past it doesn't make sense from a portfolio standpoint, thus no more PGR in the world of annual Forzas.
Like maybe it's a third-person co-op team cover shooter or something.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Yep I sometimes do too. The same as Turn10. I don't believe they are owned by MS or are they? My guess is that PG want to stay independent just like Remedy.
If true I guess there could be all kinds of reasons that for MS makes sense, not necessarily for us gamers though. Maybe PG pitched a SP only game and MS doesn't want that anymore. Who knows. I do hope we hear more about this soon though. E3 is a good place to announce a new exclusive, but on the other hand MS doesn't want to announce shit too early anymore.
Open world game, not a racer if I recall correctly.
DriftingSpirit
Member
I wouldn't be surprised by MS ditching Playground's game. It depends on what type of game it is and, on a larger scale, third party devs have been splitting off from MS partnerships (Remedy, Insomniac, etc...).
Or perhaps Playground wants to have control over it and release it everywhere. Who knows?
MosquitoSmasher
Member
At the end of the day it's still coming to Xbox One and Scorpio, so no worries. But if exclusive it will be completely built for that hardware alone and look at especially the competition how games can tend to look when that happens and a highly talented studio is behind it.
Of course just because PG makes fantastic racers doesn't automatically mean they will make one hell of a game in a different genre but.... well look at Guerilla for example.
Yep or maybe they want to own the IP and PG doesn't want that. Anything is possible here. Even though MS was fine with Insomniac keeping SO.
Of course just because PG makes fantastic racers doesn't automatically mean they will make one hell of a game in a different genre but.... well look at Guerilla for example.
Yep or maybe they want to own the IP and PG doesn't want that. Anything is possible here. Even though MS was fine with Insomniac keeping SO.
Actually I think the big win Bethesda could get with E3, would be The Evil Within 2 with VR support. Announcing the VR support at the xbox conference could prove to be a big thing both to microsoft and bethesda
Nightengale
Member
MS founded T10. They owned the studio from day 0.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
DriftingSpirit
Member
Sure, but I still think what I suggested is on the table.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
Doesn't Playground Studios staff mostly come from racing game developers that were shut down, like Bizarre Creations (closed by their owner Activision), Studio Liverpool (closed by their owner Sony), Monumental Games (closed by their owner Capcom) ...? I can totally understand why they want to stay independant. Nobody wants to go through that shit twice.
Oh wow, I stand corrected completely.
Turn 10 is probably their most important studio. Not just for the games, but how they shaped Scorpio.
That DF stuff was really eye opening.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
That was an awesome read for sure. They really really know their stuff. I wonder if they would ever be interested in making another game and give FM a break for a while.
Why? it's still going to be a racing game (Forza), why not just make it part of FM. A racing game is not like other genres were it's a created world it's simulating reality, the only differences you can make are in gameplay which can be part of FM. It's always smarter to build on a existing successful IP than to build a new one especially in the case of a racing game. It feels like a lot of people want change for the sake of change, especially when they are franchises they don't care for as much as others.
Well seen as MS has successful other general TMs and other IP such as Midtown Madness, Quantum Redshift and Rallisport Challenge. All which Turn 10 could reboot if they wanted to expand the genres of racing games served by MS, but nope.
Also considering Phil stated on Podcast Unlocked 'I have no other AAA games in my back pocket for 2017' people who are expecting Forza 7 I would imagine are going to be disappointed by his own comments.
I think it will be the same as every conference.
Gameplay from games which come this year (or early next year)
CGI for end 2018 games. It cannot really work otherwise.
We cannot expect gameplay for a new (unannounced) AAA game releasing this year because they would have been stupid not showing a CGI Trailer last E3 ;-)
DriftingSpirit
Member
Agreed.
For some reason I'm thinking of how Guerilla Games shifted genres from Killzone to Horizon and what they have achieved with that. I don't think it would be a stretch to see Playground Games branch out in the same way.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
He did say that huh? But that's OK, I wasn't expecting anything unannounced for this year anyway. But he didn't state anything about 2018 games and beyond right?
While it's true I don't care much for the FM series, it would be good to see this incredible studio try their hand at something else. Or as someone on GAF suggested not too long ago a watersport game. Forza Watersport. I'd be so down with that! Same goes for The Coalition and especially 343, let them try something else. Unless of course these studios can't be bothered to do that.
Yeah I can see that happening too, just not thanks or in cooperation with MS like Sony did with GG. Well probably not, it's a rumor right now but it wouldn't surprise me if it's true.
quickwhips
Member
Xbox needs a cart racer by rare and to bring back something like 1 vs 100 to show why they are the best online experience. Cartoon halo and gears characters would be awesome.
This post is about to make me cry.
I really didn't care for racing games until I played PGR. Then I got addicted to Midtown Madness AND Quatum Redshift (retroactively) I loved all of those games, and I love Forza as well. I wish we didn't have to have an "either or" thing going on.
D
Deleted member 471617
Unconfirmed Member
Regarding PlayGround Games, Microsoft should try their hardest to purchase them outright. As for their new IP open world game, I think that they should take the world of Forza Horizon 3 and just use that massive open world for their new IP. The foundation would already be set and just have to create what genre they want it to be.
Nightengale
Member
That "world and asset base" belongs to Microsoft. Not Playground.
If their game isn't a first-party MS game, there's no way they'll be allowed to use Forza assets to make that game.
D
Deleted member 471617
Unconfirmed Member
Shit. Didn't think of that. Microsoft/PlayGround Games then should make a deal. Like you said, use the world/assets of Forza Horizon 3 in exchange for it being an Xbox One exclusive.
They want to stay indie and that new IP is going to be multiplatform.
Nightengale
Member
If their game are already in development, that means they've already signed with a publisher since they're not a financially self-sustaining AAA studio.
Your proposal is effectively a spit on an agreed deal with a new business partner. Completely irrational.
Again, this is on the assumption that PG's new game isn't a first-party Xbox game. Truth of the matter is, we still don't know for sure.
SlipperyMoose
Member
The final and most essential pillar Phil needs to establish is a strong/diverse first party lineup. This is clear and out in the open. While we have seen a serious consolidation of first party studios and IPs I can't help to think it is because Phil wants to use those funds for newer IPs and risks. Upfront it seems like they are falling apart but I still have a positive feeling about this E3. This show will make or break his legacy as the elephant in the room is specifically new, first party exclusive games.
Obviously I could be completely wrong but only time will tell...
Obviously I could be completely wrong but only time will tell...
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