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Xbox E3 Conference 6/11 2pm PST

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B

Banjo-Kazooie

Member
Primethius said:
Sure, here:
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Video_Game_Sales_Wiki
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=14

Plenty of data in there, especially on the 360 generation where Japanese games did release on Xbox and still failed to sell much. And if we want to go back, I can certainly provide sources on numbers on Japanese games such as Otogi 1 and 2 on OG Xbox, two Japanese titles by From that barely managed to sell more than 40k combined lifetime. It really depends on how far you want to expand the scope of JP titles not doing well on the platform and I'm sure I could find a source for any particular game.



Because this is not PC and Steam. And physical is still a factor.
Click to expand...
It isn't a factor whether to port a game into a system for cheap...
 
2

2SeeKU

Member
Doffen said:
Some of the more popular games missing on console off the top of my head:

Dota 2
LoL
CS GO (the good version)
Hearthstone
PUBG (announced?)
TF2 (the good version)
Microsoft Solitaire Collection
H1Z1 (announced but not out yet)
Rust
Click to expand...

MS have alot in their own back catalog to revisit too (Bolded the titles l'd personally like to see again):

Age of Empires
Azurik
Banjo-Kazooie
Bankshot Billiards
Battletoads
Black & White
Blast Corps
Blinx
Blood Wake
Blue Dragon
Brute Force
Conker
Crimson Alliance
Crimson Skies
Fable
Fuzion Frenzy
Hexic
Hydro Thunder Hurricane
Infinite Undiscovery
Kameo: Elements of Power
Kung Fu Chaos
Lost Odyssey
MechAssault
MechCommander
MechWarrior
Microsoft Flight Simulator
Midtown Madness
Motocross Madness
NightCaster
Ninety-Nine Nights
Project Gotham Racing
Quantum Redshift
Rallisport Challenge
R.C. Pro-Am
Rise of Nations
Shadowrun
Sneakers
The Movies
Viva Piñata
Voodoo Vince
Whacked!
 
Welfare

Welfare

Member
Digital only hasn't proven to be viable on consoles yet unless you are cheap and mainstream. Nier and Yakazu would bomb massively as digital only Xbox One titles, which is sad. If digital is only above >30% of total sales for most titles (being higher with multiplayer games), low selling niche games that would sell maybe 50K LTD on Xbox One retail are going to be much lower on digital, and take away those potential retail sales and now your game is rounding down to 0.
 
F

farisr

Member
Banjo-Kazooie said:
It isn't a factor whether to port a game into a system for cheap...
Click to expand...
Ports aren't super cheap. It is absolutely a factor.

Take for instance Resident Evil 7 and FFXV. Those games supposedly have a 75/25 split for PS4/XB1. And those games generally appeal to a wider audience than other niche games that folks are talking about in this thread.

so 25% of sales, now take that and cut out the physical sales which account for the majority of them usually, but lets do a generous 50/50 split. That's 12.5% of sales right there. That's the proportion you're looking at in the best case scenario (that your IP appeals to the western audience).

Now take that, and cut it down even more, to take into account the lower appeal of your games and yeah at that point, a port may not be worth the effort.
 
B

Banjo-Kazooie

Member
Primethius said:
Yes it is? If you have a minimum print requirement and are forced to go digital only, the number of sales you expect goes down. Ports don't happen if the sales numbers don't justify the port.
Click to expand...
Sorry but what exactly do you think the minimum print is? Because if games like Worms, Locks Quest, Town of Light, Bit Buck Hunter, and smaller games like those are getting print runs from middle tier publishers like Team17, 505, THQ, etc, then what makes you think Nier couldn't be printed? I don't think the print run minimums are as high as you think they are. They aren't 4k or so low like PS4 is, but they also are not 50k.

It just makes me chuckle that "high" print runs is being mentioned as some excuse when all of these smaller games receive print runs from publishers too
 
P

Primethius

Banned
2SeeKU said:
MS have alot in their own back catalog to revisit too (Bolded the titles l'd personally like to see again):

Age of Empires
Azurik
Banjo-Kazooie
Bankshot Billiards
Battletoads
Black & White
Blast Corps
Blinx
Blood Wake
Blue Dragon
Brute Force
Conker
Crimson Alliance
Crimson Skies
Fable
Fuzion Frenzy
Hexic
Hydro Thunder Hurricane
Infinite Undiscovery
Kameo: Elements of Power
Kung Fu Chaos
Lost Odyssey
MechAssault
MechCommander
MechWarrior
Microsoft Flight Simulator
Midtown Madness
Motocross Madness
NightCaster
Ninety-Nine Nights
Project Gotham Racing
Quantum Redshift
Rallisport Challenge
R.C. Pro-Am
Rise of Nations
Shadowrun
Sneakers
The Movies
Viva Piñata
Voodoo Vince
Whacked!
Click to expand...

What and who I wouldn't kill for another Shadowrun game like the 360 one.
 
L

LordBaztion

Member
Welfare said:
Digital only hasn't proven to be viable on consoles yet unless you are cheap and mainstream. Nier and Yakazu would bomb massively as digital only Xbox One titles, which is sad. If digital is only above >30% of total sales for most titles (being higher with multiplayer games), low selling niche games that would sell maybe 50K LTD on Xbox One retail are going to be much lower on digital, and take away those potential retail sales and now your game is rounding down to 0.
Click to expand...
well, that's crushing to read. I guess there is no chance for nier on xbox then, unless MS is willing to push some strings but it's unlikely.
 
P

Primethius

Banned
Banjo-Kazooie said:
Sorry but what exactly do you think the minimum print is? Because if games like Worms, Locks Quest, Town of Light, Bit Buck Hunter, and smaller games like those are getting print runs from middle tier publishers like Team17, 505, THQ, etc, then what makes you think Nier couldn't be printed? I don't think the print run minimums are as high as you think they are. They aren't 4k or so low like PS4 is, but they also are not 50k.

It just makes me chuckle that "high" print runs is being mentioned as some excuse when all of these smaller games receive print runs from publishers too
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I understand. Because certain publishers still do a print run, it makes it not problematic for other publishers? Shovel Knight didn't get a physical release on XB1 but did on other platforms. They cancelled that one presumable due to the print requirement. I guess that's not a legitimate excuse either despite it likely being the reason?

And the 50k number is the one that's been floated around the most
 
Welfare

Welfare

Member
LordBaztion said:
well, that's crushing to read. I guess there is no chance for nier on xbox then, unless MS is willing to push some strings but it's unlikely.
Click to expand...

All we can hope for is for sequels/spiritual successors to these titles to be made on XB1 as well now that the idea is a proven success, like Demon Souls to Dark Souls.

Maybe in a perfect world MS would publish these games like Nier and Nioh but I don't see that happening.
 
B

Banjo-Kazooie

Member
Welfare said:
Digital only hasn't proven to be viable on consoles yet unless you are cheap and mainstream. Nier and Yakazu would bomb massively as digital only Xbox One titles, which is sad. If digital is only above >30% of total sales for most titles (being higher with multiplayer games), low selling niche games that would sell maybe 50K LTD on Xbox One retail are going to be much lower on digital, and take away those potential retail sales and now your game is rounding down to 0.
Click to expand...
I mean that's kind of a flawed comparison. If a consumer has two options then of course one will be taking away from the other. Your 30% digital tie means nothing in the scenario where a game is only available digitally. If consumers are forced to only buy it one way then that "30%" number would be absorbing the portion of the 70% that would have grabbed it physical.

You're basically saying that a niche game that would have sold 50k would sell only 15,000 copies if released digital only? Like the other 35,000 people only care about the game if it's on a disc?

Maybe I'm terribly misunderstanding your explanation, or maybe I'm not explaining my issues with it properly, but to me it just sounds silly
 
L

LordBaztion

Member
Welfare said:
All we can hope for is for sequels/spiritual successors to these titles to be made on XB1 as well now that the idea is a proven success, like Demon Souls to Dark Souls.

Maybe in a perfect world MS would publish these games like Nier and Nioh but I don't see that happening.
Click to expand...
that's what they own us after the cancelation of Scalebound, lol.
It would be great to happen, at least digital. Sure it won't make money but it's more important the relationship you are building with studios alien to MS.
 
P

Primethius

Banned
2SeeKU said:
It had a lot of promise that game. I'm not sure why it wasn't more successful.
Click to expand...

I remember its online community dying out fairly quickly. It was really unique at a time where you didn't have the amount of variety in FPS games as you do now so it was unfortunate to see that happen.

What a bummer.
 
Welfare

Welfare

Member
Banjo-Kazooie said:
I mean that's kind of a flawed comparison. If a consumer has two options then of course one will be taking away from the other. Your 30% digital tie means nothing in the scenario where a game is only available digitally. If consumers are forced to only buy it one way then that "30%" number would be absorbing the portion of the 70% that would have grabbed it physical.

You're basically saying that a niche game that would have sold 50k would sell only 15,000 copies if released digital only? Like the other 35,000 people only care about the game if it's on a disc?

Maybe I'm terribly misunderstanding your explanation, or maybe I'm not explaining my issues with it properly, but to me it just sounds silly
Click to expand...

Having a physical presence is a massive help for sales. That's basically the only way those single player games are going to see any meaningful sales as the digital store is not effective for new releases not currently having massive marketing cycles.

Maybe numbers like 50K are too low for some of the games missing on XB1 but the numbers won't be much higher, and when you are looking at sales of maybe 100K or 200K digital only (which seem highly unlikely as those games would probably have a hard time hitting those on retail only), you have to ask yourself if it's worth it compared to the +1M on PS4, or equal/better numbers on PC.
 
L

LukasTaves

Member
Primethius said:
Sure, here:
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Video_Game_Sales_Wiki
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=14

Plenty of data in there, especially on the 360 generation where Japanese games did release on Xbox and still failed to sell much. And if we want to go back, I can certainly provide sources on numbers on Japanese games such as Otogi 1 and 2 on OG Xbox, two Japanese titles by From that barely managed to sell more than 40k combined lifetime. It really depends on how far you want to expand the scope of JP titles not doing well on the platform and I'm sure I could find a source for any particular game.



Because this is not PC and Steam. And physical is still a factor.
Click to expand...
That's.... just Japanese sales for 360 games. I guess everyone knows that despite one game or another they didn't sell that much in Japan. And like completely the opposite of the point I was making. You are basically saying that developers should stop trying to release games globally on xbone because they don't sell well in Japan.
 
L

LukasTaves

Member
Welfare said:
Having a physical presence is a massive help for sales. That's basically the only way those single player games are going to see any meaningful sales as the digital store is not effective for new releases not currently having massive marketing cycles.

Maybe numbers like 50K are too low for some of the games missing on XB1 but the numbers won't be much higher, and when you are looking at sales of maybe 100K or 200K digital only (which seem highly unlikely as those games would probably have a hard time hitting those on retail only), you have to ask yourself if it's worth it compared to the +1M on PS4, or equal/better numbers on PC.
Click to expand...
I think it's the other way around. Physical releases no longer support every type of game and releasing digitally became a necessity for success.
 
P

Primethius

Banned
LukasTaves said:
That's.... just Japanese sales for 360 games. I guess everyone knows that despite one game or another they didn't sell that much in Japan. And like completely the opposite of the point I was making. You are basically saying that developers should stop trying to release games globally on xbone because they don't sell well in Japan.
Click to expand...

NPD is NA. Media Create is JP. VGSales has NPD data as well. The GAF forum archive has both NPD and Media Create data archives.

--

My actual last post on this as I don't want to upset other users from participating/enjoying the thread.
 
T

tiredheadcrab

Member
Primethius said:
NPD is NA. Media Create is JP. VGSales has NPD data as well. The GAF forum archive has both NPD and Media Create data archives.

--

My actual last post on this as I don't want to upset other users from participating/enjoying the thread.
Click to expand...

It be best to enjoy most xbox threads without darkwing duck boy or someone else coming to shit up xbox threads.
 
A

Admodieus

Member
2SeeKU said:
MS have alot in their own back catalog to revisit too (Bolded the titles l'd personally like to see again):

Age of Empires
Azurik
Banjo-Kazooie
Bankshot Billiards
Battletoads
Black & White
Blast Corps
Blinx
Blood Wake
Blue Dragon
Brute Force
Conker
Crimson Alliance
Crimson Skies
Fable
Fuzion Frenzy
Hexic
Hydro Thunder Hurricane
Infinite Undiscovery
Kameo: Elements of Power
Kung Fu Chaos
Lost Odyssey
MechAssault
MechCommander
MechWarrior
Microsoft Flight Simulator
Midtown Madness
Motocross Madness
NightCaster
Ninety-Nine Nights
Project Gotham Racing
Quantum Redshift
Rallisport Challenge
R.C. Pro-Am
Rise of Nations
Shadowrun
Sneakers
The Movies
Viva Piñata
Voodoo Vince
Whacked!
Click to expand...

Jesus, look at this list. Even if you try to abide by their "Games as a Service" mandate there's tons here to work with. Give Forza Horizon a year off and bring back PGR. A MechAssault or Crimson Skies game that is Play Anywhere would be one of my most played games.
 
B

Banjo-Kazooie

Member
MS needs to announced an OG Xbox Classics program. Games brought to the modern system with improved functions, online, achievements, Play Anywhere, etc. All they have to say is that Phantom Dust was just the start and to expect more titles brought forward. Not proper BC but more like Phantom Dust is what I want.

Now mind you I'm under no disallusions that this would actually happen haha

Between Rare Replay, PD, and VooDoo Vince (yes I know it's ID@Xbox) they are on the way though.
 
F

farisr

Member
LordBaztion said:
@CodeMystics
So which OG Xbox title should we ask Microsoft for the chance to work on next? :)

https://twitter.com/CodeMystics/status/870437311661481984
Click to expand...
I need that PGR in my life. I'd prefer a remaster though rather than a port like Phantom Dust. Give the next Forza Horizon game and Forza game an extra year in dev, come out with a PGR remaster as the main xbox racing game for that year. I'd like to see what kind of improvements a Forza game with a 3 year dev cycle can bring, and get to enjoy that PGR goodness as well. Win win imo.
 
P

Primethius

Banned
Granjinha said:
You stating the truth sometimes hurts, i guess



Typical Microsoft. (killing stuff early, i mean) That game that Press Play was making could sell shitloads of copies, it was basically a hunger games style games and look at playerunkown battlegrounds now :p
Click to expand...

It's funny because I remember the criticism of Shadowrun at the time being squarely aimed at how multiplayer focused it was.

But a title like that now not only works great for the market but also what MS is moving towards.
 
digoutyoursoul

digoutyoursoul

Member
farisr said:
I need that PGR in my life. I'd prefer a remaster though. Give the next Forza Horizon game or the next mainline Forza game an extra year in dev, come out with a PGR remaster as the main xbox racing game for that year. I'd like to see what kind of improvements a Forza game with a 3 year dev cycle can bring, and get to enjoy that PGR goodness as well. Win win imo.
Click to expand...

Agreed I feel the release of these games could get stagnant in the future, three Forza Horizon games we have had in over four years, come on.

I'm sure a year or two without Forza and something else instead wouldn't upset people too much surely? . PGR would be a welcome return considering how long it's been since one, playground games could do a super job with that IP.
 
N

Nightengale

Member
Other posters coming to share a different perspective that's valid, grounded and founded in their reasons for saying so isn't "shitting up a thread"

Just because it's slanted negatively doesn't mean they (including me) are here to just make you all frustrated and diminish your excitement.
 
G

Granjinha

Member
Primethius said:
It's funny because I remember the criticism of Shadowrun at the time being squarely aimed at how multiplayer focused it was.

But a title like that now not only works great for the market but also what MS is moving towards.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Such a shame, it was a great game :(
 
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