dragonelite
Member
Better controller and his friends are on psn?
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Xbox Project Scorpio Announced - 6TFlops, 320GB/s - Fall 2017
- Thread starter wachie
- Start date
- Status
Better controller and his friends are on psn?
The eyes can not see beyond 30fps and/or full hd.
Andronicus
Banned
Still muddy info with the 6 TF so its the system not just the GPU? Also "8 cores" with the cpu...ok isnt x1 and ps4 8 core
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
The funny thing is, this console is 18 months away. There's still a LOT we don't know and stuff could change just like Sony pulling the 4 to 8GB RAM switcheroo.
So right now they've spoken about 320GB bandwidth but we don't know their RAM solution.
So right now they've spoken about 320GB bandwidth but we don't know their RAM solution.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
cheezcake
Member
CPU barely contributes to the FLOP metric because that's not what they're designed to do. Even an 8 core i7 5000 series is only like ~0.3 Tflops, so it's really a meaningless distinction people seem to be spending an excessive amount of time talking about
The weak Jaguar cores in PS4/Xbox One are holding a lot of the games back which is why a game devs are choosing to run some of the code on the GPU's Async compute.
The 0.3TFlops difference on the CPU is going to make a big difference than 0.3TFlops difference on the GPU side.
Negotiator
Banned
Even if you have an i7, it's stupid to run physics code on it. Why? Because even the i7 is weak flops-wise compared to a low-end GPU.
Everything that is parallelizable (SIMD code/matrix multiplications) can run better & faster on the GPU via GPGPU/Async Compute.
You're confusing MIPS/IPC with flops. Totally different metrics.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
A dev said 6 TF computing power, an engineer said 6 TF GPU. Who would know better?
f@luS
More than a member.
More like 4.5x (or only a bit more than 3x the ps4). Not enough as their component will not grow as a new generation implies. We won't have 32gb of ram which should be the minimum in the next generation
geordiemp
Member
And who cares ? If the CPU is some shit jaguar, nobody will be gaming at 60 FPS on demanding titles anyway.
4 + TF is fine, these consoles need a CPU that is not a joke.
They of course don't add much to the flops but they are crucial for computing workloads.
dgrdsv
Member
Pure flops mean way less for CPUs than they do for GPUs. If the pure flops peaks would be the main limiting factor of CPU performance we would have 100 cores CPUs already taking care of that problem.
DagnastyEp
Member
Per the Xbox News website:
That should clear up the confusion over 6TF total SOC or 6TF GPU.
via: http://news.xbox.com/2016/06/13/xbox-e3-2016-briefing-news-recap/
That should clear up the confusion over 6TF total SOC or 6TF GPU.
MilkyJoe
Member
You would think.
Side note: Why does Dead Rising 4 say world premier and not XBO & Win 10 exlusive?
It's more than likely a timed exclusive.
i would believe that, unless Microsoft does some really nasty moneyhatting, any exlclusivity on PC would be timed.
No dev in their right mind would develop a game for the PC and sign a deal that permanently excludes them from putting their game onto third party market-places. (i.e. Steam)
It's not like having to port the game. The game's already done at that point.
DagnastyEp
Member
Check out the Dead Rising 4 thread for more, but the game is being published by MS this year, and there's a 1 year exclusivity period apparently.
JonathanPower
Member
From a hw point of view, it is.
JonathanPower
Member
The real difference was the memory architecture that made one system more suited for 1080p than the other. The 0.51 TF difference was just the icing on the cake.
Spladam
Member
Well Zen is what I thought would make the most sense, it was the obvious choice.
Now just couple that baby with a solid CPU.
considering the way they are pushing it as designed for xbox one games in 4k, I wouldn't bet on it
Proelite
Member
No because memory amount isn't increased by much. Not to mention a 360 flop were much worse than a GCN1.1 flop.
Ironically we might see a bigger jump in CPU power between Scorpio and Xb1 than Xb1 and 360.
We don't know enough right now to make that assessment. Remember, consoles are lot more optimized than PC's for their given task(s). Desktop parts have to employ brute force to overcome generalized computing needs. I know the history, and I'm well aware of PR nonsense, but I plan to take a wait and see approach here.
Negotiator
Banned
Since they're using a unified GDDR5(X) pool, I wonder if the memory controller will allocate bandwidth disproportionately to the CPU/GPU... the Zen is more powerful than the Jaguar (probably a lot more than 40% IPC increase), so it makes sense that it will require more memory bandwidth (XB1 octa-core Jaguar @ 1.75 GHz had 30GB/s DDR3 mem b/w).
Negotiator
Banned
$499 (zero profit) or a $399 megaton with a small loss (MS can eat it up easily).
$599 ain't gonna get them anywhere and they know it. They're trying to imitate Sony 2013, not Sony 2005.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
$400
$500 worst case scenario
Cant imagine it being more than that. As Phil said, they dont make lot of profit from hardware.
...Scatter...
Banned
I sit 30 feet away from my tv so I can't tell the difference.
PS4K is rumored 4.14TF and I'm sure they're planning on 4K gaming.
no no no still too confusing. phil spencer has to personally show up at my doorstep and show me on paper that its 6tf gpu
what's Full HD? There's no real definition of that. "Full" is the highest available.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagon-wheel_effect
over 30fps.
Chittagong
Gold Member
$399 not a penny more. It has been established as *the* mass market entry price point to beat. It's not crazy talk either, you can buy today a video card with similar performance at $199 (consumer price), plus Xbone will be at $249 by then.
Basically, Scorpio and Neo are simple tools to defend ASP through a console life cycle.
The talk of it being a 'hardcore SKU' is confusing people to expect $499-599 but it's good to remember that the people who got PS4 at launch for $399 were relatively hard core compared to the general market.
VS
Is the Scorpio APU die size smaller than the XB1 equivalent or is it just me?
I understand the die shrink (28nm -> 14nm FinFET), but it's supposed to have more GPU CUs/ALUs and a CPU uArch (Zen) that requires more transistors compared to Jaguar. I assume eSRAM is gone for good.
ps: I wonder if Sony is going to order a bigger APU to hit a 8TF target... to be precise, they need 8.5TF to have the same amount of (semi-)generational leap (4.58x).
It's impossible to say if that pic is even representative of the final package. So conclusions in either direction are ridiculous at this point. We know the performance target of the gpu and what the memory bandwidth is. That's it at this point.
You seriously thing that high end hardware will be the same cost at the slim Xbox One S, in 18 months?
I say $549 launch price, with 1TB.
Negotiator
Banned
You're probably right.
Any die size (mm^2) guesstimations for 8 Zen cores & 6TF GPU? I think it's gonna be huge & power hungry (I hope
RROD
The Abominable Snowman
Member
I'm gonna go down for $399, with a $50 price cut to the OG/Slim Xbox One.
If MS launches at greater than $399, then they have no intention of changing the momentum the PS4 (and probably already at that time released Neo) has garnered.
Maybe to be more clear, if Microsoft launches without a sku at $399 then you should consider the scorpio as truly only for the enthusiast crowd with little to no long-term impact on worldwide sales going forward.
Okami Haundo
Member
I am 100% with you on this one, with the caveat that I think the OG Xbox One will be "officially" phased out by the time Scorpio releases. A $399 console with a 1TB HDD and that much power would have no trouble selling.
Spladam
Member
I don't expect they would stretch the truth that far, I'm seriously expecting an 8 core ZEN, as I've said, they get REALLY good bulk deals from AMD on these things.
Hahaha, that's funny. I know the game developers are happy as hell with this, with the efficiency you get from custom console Main boards and SoCs (lack of bus bottle necking, high bandwidth throughput from being on the same die of silicon, which is why you CAN'T make direct PC Spec comparisons) they will be able to do some marvelous things with this beast, mainly some very slick 120Hz not sickness inducing VR. I'm still skeptical about gaming at 4k with 6 TFOPS, but like I said, we can't really use PC GPU performance as a benchmark.
While we don't have good info Polaris or Vega, the 14nm FinFET throws all of this on it's head, They will be able to do a good bit more with less, as we see with any major leap in chip set architecture, and this is the biggest leap in 5+ years.
Funny, when I first heard about the specs of the Scorpio, before I saw the presentations, I thought for a second this thing would have a discrete GPU, but SoC is so much cheaper, easier on the engineers, and is the future. Seriously, I think discrete GPU's will be a thing of the past even in the PC arena within a decade.
Interesting question, but I figure they will come up with a machine level translation between the two for compatibility, with VRAM as fast as they've stated, they have the headroom to make it backwards compatible with that giant Microsoft blunder that was ESRAM. Those design mistakes are what they are trying to make right with this, and it appears they really were listening to the devs and engineers, and of course all us nerds and tech heads with a keyboard and a forum account, with this project.
I have a feeling the "4k gaming" will be limited, and there will be a greater focus on high performance, high detail 1080 gaming from the devs, but even more so with VR gaming, which I think is what this is future proofing for more so then 4k.
Thanks for that link, it appears it will more likely be Vega then, I was wondering how they were going to get 6TFLOPS out of Polaris.
Oh man, this is just the start to a shitload of detail speculations, get used to it... that said, I do believe they are saying it has a 6TFLOP GPU, the CPU makes up so little of the graphics math performance (floating point) that it would be inconsequential to really care or argue over it.
Agreed, and I think this is more likely what we can expect.
I'm with you guys, as I mentioned above, many of us are skeptical of this being able to really game at 4k, and like I stated, I think the extra power is more towards VR future proofing. I'd expect the front end interface and movies at 4k, but most of the games at high detail high and performance 1080, despite all of Phil's and Microsoft's talk about 4k gaming.
I'm thinking more in the $600 range at launch, this is what I'm most curious about right now. I think this beast is going to be the XBONE elite, the wealthy person's XBOX. Start saving now.
$499 minimum. The S is $399 right now for 2TB. And that's less powerful tech. A year won't change tech prices so much that they can do that.
I could see $499 X1Scorpio and $499 PS4K. Maybe.
- Status