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Xbox Series S is pretty dang cool

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
If it doesn't have a superior feature set how could it be more powerful? Just because it can hit higher resolutions doesn't make it more powerful. I'd say the one that has hardware raytracing and the more modern features is more powerful.

Exactly, there is at least a 25% performance increase for RDNA2 so you're looking at a very similar power level with One X.
If you own both then you don't want to go back to One X, the CPU and SSD are the next gen features you already see a benefit from that wipe the floor with One X which normally operates at half the framerates, some games even a quarter.
Then of course once engines start using the full RDNA2 feature set the One X will be even further behind we've already seen the least performant of these in Tier 2 VRS taking the likes of Gears 5 and Doom Eternal past the One X versions which are some of the top tier last gen games, once we get SFS and Mesh Shader support in games it won't even be close anymore.
Great to see people picking up this little machine always seem to enjoy it and be impressed.
 

Md Ray

Member
If it doesn't have a superior feature set how could it be more powerful? Just because it can hit higher resolutions doesn't make it more powerful. I'd say the one that has hardware raytracing and the more modern features is more powerful.
It's just like the fact that a GTX 1080 Ti is more powerful than an RTX 2060.

Just because it has HW-acceleration to speed up ray tracing process doesn't make it more powerful. Superior? Absolutely, as it incorporates new feature sets not available on the older, more powerful chip. Also, most games are still using rasterization for scene rendering, not ray tracing. And devs are actually willing to omit RT entirely from the Series S version, if needed, for perf reasons (see: DOOM Eternal, Control). But I digress.

So, yeah, One X GPU is more powerful than Series S GPU simply because it has the ability to render at higher resolution/generate higher framerate in rasterization (which is what most games use). Series S GPU is superior in other ways though as I've stated before.
 

Banjo64

Member
Not just more RAM, One X also has more powerful GPU. It has more grunt and memory bandwidth to hit higher resolution/framerates*, but what makes Series S GPU superior is that it has some brand new as well as improved GPU feature-sets that One X completely lacks.

*lack of higher framerate on One X is due to CPU holding it back.
One X is designed to play shitty looking Xbox One S games in native 4k.

Series S is designed to play beautiful Series X games at 1080p.
 

Shut0wen

Member
I have a PS5 already, but when I couldn't get Halo Infinite running on my son's reasonably good PC, I impulse bought an Xbox Series S just to play it. I have to say, I'm pretty impressed. Halo runs great at 60fps, and it looks fine on a 4k tv. I was surprised to find that I could play Halo Infinite with friends online with voice chat and everything, without having a subscription to Xbox Live. That is definitely a bonus. Another pleasant surprise was that there was a list of all the Xbox 360 games I had played years ago, and I can just download the digital version, and it works. I thought that you needed the original disc to play old games that you owned on disc (which wouldn't work on the S), but it appears if you played a game 10 years ago on disc, it just lets you download it and play.

I got a 3 month gamerpass sub for $10 with my console, so I'll activate that when Halo campaign is released and probably download Forza and Flight Simulator. The cool thing is, every time a big Microsoft exclusive like Fable or Elder Scrolls 6 comes out in the future, I can just get another temporary gamepass subscription to play them. Otherwise, this will primarily be a Halo multiplayer box.

Like most people, I wrote this console off as under-powered and a waste, but I am impressed. Solid frame rate, good graphics, fast loading, free muliplayer with voice chat (on Halo anyway), and all my old 360 games, makes this thing an outstanding value. It seemed like Microsoft made a mistake making a lower powered console instead of just going disc and disc-less like PS5. The Covid chip shortage ended up making Microsoft's gamble pay off big time, as the S is the only console available this xmas. Fortunately, I imagine a lot of people are going to be pleasantly surprised by how competent this little console is.
I love it just ashame about the memory
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
You can listen to the same Series S trolls who appear in every thread that praises the machine, or listen to someone who knows what he's talking about.

"With RDNA 2 we get basically a 25 percent performance uplift over GCN with no work by developers at all,” claims Ronald. “There’s a significant amount of efficiency we’re getting out of RDNA2 relative to GCN. Then we look at other things like using float 16 or variable rate shading, and we’re seeing on the order of 10-20 percent performance benefits from there as well.”"

"“It is really difficult to compare raw numbers like teraflops across generations, because we think about them differently,” says Ronald. “In general on the GPU side the Xbox Series S is effectively the same performance as an Xbox One X GPU, but it brings all the next-gen features like ray tracing, VRS, mesh shaders, and obviously when you look at the massive leaps in CPU performance and I/O performance, that’s why Xbox Series S is designed to deliver that true next-gen experience"

I'll take his word for it.
 

Rykan

Member
You can listen to the same Series S trolls who appear in every thread that praises the machine, or listen to someone who knows what he's talking about.

"With RDNA 2 we get basically a 25 percent performance uplift over GCN with no work by developers at all,” claims Ronald. “There’s a significant amount of efficiency we’re getting out of RDNA2 relative to GCN. Then we look at other things like using float 16 or variable rate shading, and we’re seeing on the order of 10-20 percent performance benefits from there as well.”"

"“It is really difficult to compare raw numbers like teraflops across generations, because we think about them differently,” says Ronald. “In general on the GPU side the Xbox Series S is effectively the same performance as an Xbox One X GPU, but it brings all the next-gen features like ray tracing, VRS, mesh shaders, and obviously when you look at the massive leaps in CPU performance and I/O performance, that’s why Xbox Series S is designed to deliver that true next-gen experience"

I'll take his word for it.
Pack it up boys, Microsoft Director says new Microsoft Product is better than old Microsoft Product so please buy new Microsoft product. He knows what he's talking about, take his word for it.
 
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Rykan

Member
I thought he was you know, the actual system designer? Not a Director?

We should all ignore Mark Cerny as well, these guys clearly know nothing about the products they designed.
Ehh according to the Verge article hes the "Director of Xbox Program management", whatever that means.

Point is, obviously he's going to say that his new product is better than his old one and use phrases like "“It is really difficult to compare raw numbers like teraflops across generations, because we think about them differently," when the numbers aren't favorable. Whether its right or not doesn't matter, he's trying to sell you something so phrases like "I trust what this guy is saying" are incredibly gullible. Obviously he's never going to admit the older product was better even if it was the case. which I'm not saying it is, just for the record.
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
Ehh according to the Verge article hes the "Director of Xbox Program management", whatever that means.

Point is, obviously he's going to say that his new product is better than his old one and use phrases like "“It is really difficult to compare raw numbers like teraflops across generations, because we think about them differently," when the numbers aren't favorable. Whether its right or not doesn't matter, he's trying to sell you something so phrases like "I trust what this guy is saying" are incredibly gullible. Obviously he's never going to admit the older product was better even if it was the case. which I'm not saying it is, just for the record.

He actually explains why. The results confirm what he says anyway.
 

Chukhopops

Member
Ehh according to the Verge article hes the "Director of Xbox Program management", whatever that means.

Point is, obviously he's going to say that his new product is better than his old one and use phrases like "“It is really difficult to compare raw numbers like teraflops across generations, because we think about them differently," when the numbers aren't favorable. Whether its right or not doesn't matter, he's trying to sell you something so phrases like "I trust what this guy is saying" are incredibly gullible. Obviously he's never going to admit the older product was better even if it was the case. which I'm not saying it is, just for the record.
- Comparing teraflops between systems of similar architecture: that’s a big no-no
- Comparing teraflops between entirely different architectures: sure why not?
 

Bernd Lauert

Gold Member
Ehh according to the Verge article hes the "Director of Xbox Program management", whatever that means.

Point is, obviously he's going to say that his new product is better than his old one and use phrases like "“It is really difficult to compare raw numbers like teraflops across generations, because we think about them differently," when the numbers aren't favorable. Whether its right or not doesn't matter, he's trying to sell you something so phrases like "I trust what this guy is saying" are incredibly gullible. Obviously he's never going to admit the older product was better even if it was the case. which I'm not saying it is, just for the record.
You're acting like he's trying to deceive people. He explains in detail what he means.
 

dcmk7

Member
Ehh according to the Verge article hes the "Director of Xbox Program management", whatever that means.

Point is, obviously he's going to say that his new product is better than his old one and use phrases like "“It is really difficult to compare raw numbers like teraflops across generations, because we think about them differently," when the numbers aren't favorable. Whether its right or not doesn't matter, he's trying to sell you something so phrases like "I trust what this guy is saying" are incredibly gullible. Obviously he's never going to admit the older product was better even if it was the case. which I'm not saying it is, just for the record.

The marketing was all over the place, probably the affect of launching a global product in COVID times.
 

Banjo64

Member
Ehh according to the Verge article hes the "Director of Xbox Program management", whatever that means.

Point is, obviously he's going to say that his new product is better than his old one and use phrases like "“It is really difficult to compare raw numbers like teraflops across generations, because we think about them differently," when the numbers aren't favorable. Whether its right or not doesn't matter, he's trying to sell you something so phrases like "I trust what this guy is saying" are incredibly gullible. Obviously he's never going to admit the older product was better even if it was the case. which I'm not saying it is, just for the record.
He’s saying it… because it’s true.
 

kingfey

Member
Pretty much this. Its baffling how many people repeat that the Series S is paying off when the PS5 is running away in terms of sales.
You serious about this take?

The ps4 had 120m console sold. Its normal for people to want ps5. How the hell does that diminish the xss?

They are 2 console brands. They aren't from the same company.

The hatred for this console generates wild takes every time.
 

kingfey

Member
That’s not paying off - it’s available due to soft demand. MS sells every Series X it ships worldwide, and that manufacturing capability could have been servicing the rabid demand from enthusiasts eager for a next gen console. Instead the S sits around (was even discounted to $280 USD in Oz) whilst Sony steadily grows the base for the PS5.
Why are you comparing the ps5 to xss?

They serve 2 audiences. Try to compare the xsx to xss. Since they are from the same company.
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.


Looks like they have improved the Series S version from the preview mode, now has a 60fps mode that runs more stable than One X.
 
The best thing about the Series S is that people can buy one. The second best thing is that it's cheap. The third, fourth and fifth are that it's small, silent and doesn't produce a lot of heat / consume a lot of power.


But unless Microsoft is planning to convert the Series S into a mobile form factor within the next 2-3 years, there aren't many more good things to tell about the Series S, and quite a bit of bad things.
 

Rykan

Member
You're acting like he's trying to deceive people. He explains in detail what he means.
What I'm saying is that saying "Don't believe the "trolls", believe this guy trying to sell you his machine instead" is gullible. Also, I've read the article. He doesn't go into indepth into anything, he's just citing feature and marketing speech.

For example;
it can deliver performance well beyond the raw hardware specs itself.
Which is quite literally, impossible.
 

DragonNCM

Member
The XSS was never intended to be an upgrade to the X1X in the first place. It still shocks me how many people don't seem to recognize the X1S was the console replaced by XSS. That said outside of resolution the XSS is still considerably more powerful than the X1X. I get it if the disc drive is the deal breaker but the SSD on the XSS and XSX makes it a completely worthwhile upgrade by itself.
Last generation I skipped Xbox console and invested my playtime with my PS4 and PS4 Pro. Got PS5 on launch & XSS in June.That little thing is amazing for the price. Already got double time playing on XSS then PS5. Game pass add incredible value as it is and new day one games run damn good on it.
I even don't need XSX at this point.
 

DarkMage619

Member
It's just like the fact that a GTX 1080 Ti is more powerful than an RTX 2060.

Just because it has HW-acceleration to speed up ray tracing process doesn't make it more powerful. Superior? Absolutely, as it incorporates new feature sets not available on the older, more powerful chip. Also, most games are still using rasterization for scene rendering, not ray tracing. And devs are actually willing to omit RT entirely from the Series S version, if needed, for perf reasons (see: DOOM Eternal, Control). But I digress.

So, yeah, One X GPU is more powerful than Series S GPU simply because it has the ability to render at higher resolution/generate higher framerate in rasterization (which is what most games use). Series S GPU is superior in other ways though as I've stated before.
Sounds like a semantic argument coupled with a deflection. Developers make choices all the time when it comes to the ways they implement features or omit features in games. There are plenty of games that lack raytracing on PS5 and XSX when those features are on PC and it isn't because those systems aren't powerful enough to run the effect. No where anywhere did anyone claim all XSS games would have raytracing. Still the number of games with raytracing on XSS > number of games with raytracing on X1X. No spin or deflection changes that simple point.

If I am missing out on modern graphical features entirely, no matter what developers do, despite having more older generation flops and RAM doesn't mean my old system is more powerful than the new tech. It just means I can run old games at higher resolutions with lower framerates and that is exactly what the X1X is to the XSS. The X1X loses to the XSS in every category minus resolution and blu-ray playback. Not bad for a system that is only $300. Best value in gaming period.
 

Deerock71

Member
10 page thtread incoming about what a terrible life decision you've made and conclusions you've drawn. But frankly, I think this plus Game Pass was Microsoft's plan all along.
 
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Cyberpunkd

Member
It's a shame they didn't design it to have the chassis swappable in different colors or at least to release it in white and black at the same time. I try to keep my electronics same color if I can, same with my other appliances.
 

anthony2690

Member
Minutes is too long and it breaks Quick Resume which is arguably the Series' best unique feature. A lot of people don't just have an external harddrive lying around, out-of-use, either so you're talking about spending more than $300 already.

My argument is the system is more than $300 when it comes down to it, kind of like the Nintendo Switch and its lack of a Pro Controller and MicroSD card. But they hide the cost by making the base cheap and making people think they're saving money to lure them in with $300 for an equalish experience. It works, but if you think about it - the majority of gamers would be better off getting a Series X (if they can find one). I'm sure there are people who will just use the base system and like it, but I think if people really do like it within two years or so they'll wish they'd have gotten an X instead.
You can use quick resume on games running from the HDD, what I found out recently what genuinely surprised me :)
 

kingfey

Member
What I'm saying is that saying "Don't believe the "trolls", believe this guy trying to sell you his machine instead" is gullible. Also, I've read the article. He doesn't go into indepth into anything, he's just citing feature and marketing speech.

For example;
Which is quite literally, impossible.
Do you have xss?
 

Rykan

Member
Do you have xss?
Ofcourse not, I'm not purchasing underpowerd hardware. I had a series X but I had to sell my consoles when I moved to a different country. I will be picking up a series X again when I can locate one.
 

DarkestHour

Member
I'm pretty happy with it too. The Series S complements the PS5 quite well as an alternate gaming machine that is more easily acquired.

I wanted to get mine setup for emulation, but it looks like that is more involved that I had expected. It's do-able, I just don't want to muck around with something more than downloading an app.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
S is brilliant man, its my most used console right now. I chose it because I wasn't sure if GP was for me, I had my fill with the PS4 for the last few years. I figured that an S would be a low entry, and if I didn't like its ecosystem etc, then I wouldn't give much of a shit.

The PS5 DE isn't really a better deal. At first glance it is as you get a bonafide next-gen system, but after having used it for a year idk. I barely use it. I only buy the odd exclusive like Demon's Souls, waited for Returnal to go on sale. XSS with GP, has much, much more to offer while being digital only as well. And the graphics aren't that much worse, while the experience like the fast load times and QoL improvements are all the same. On top of that, Atmos and Vision support. And VRR.

I don't give a fuck about those 20x zoom differences man, I beat Doom Eternal on S since it was on GP anyway. Didn't have a PS4 copy around, didn't want to pay. Game was bliss at 120hz, also on S. Its not like I hate this version because it has higher pixel count on X or PS5.

And people tend to forget, the S is priced at the range of the base PS4. Store chains still charge 299 for that as well.
 
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kingfey

Member
Ofcourse not, I'm not purchasing underpowerd hardware. I had a series X but I had to sell my consoles when I moved to a different country. I will be picking up a series X again when I can locate one.
how do you know that its weak? unless you test the actual device, you wouldnt know if its weak or not.
 
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Bernd Lauert

Gold Member
What I'm saying is that saying "Don't believe the "trolls", believe this guy trying to sell you his machine instead" is gullible. Also, I've read the article. He doesn't go into indepth into anything, he's just citing feature and marketing speech.

For example;
Which is quite literally, impossible.
But it's quite literally true. 4TF performs similar or better than 6TF. That's what he meant.
 

Rykan

Member
how do you know that its weak? unless you test the actual device, you wouldnt know if its weak or not.
I want you to stand in the corner for a moment and think about what you just said.

I don't need to own one to know what the specs are. The specs are widely available and there is already plenty of details about its performance.
 
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oldergamer

Member
I got one for my older brother this xmas. First console for him since xbox 360. Its a great value as a digital console for someone who wont care about 4k. Got him gamepass as he wont need to buy any disc games.

Series x and ps5 are still priced for hardcore gamers and wont come down anytime soon.

Ive been tempted to buy one and add the dev features so i can install kodi and emulators. Perhaps make it. My theater pc replacement that is high powered for that role and completely silent.

I still have my x one x though so i could use that instead and it has bluray. Man i dunno what to do. Got lots of options
 

kingfey

Member
I want you to stand in the corner for a moment and think about what you just said.

I don't need to own one to know what the specs are. The specs are widely available and there is already plenty of details about its performance.
I can write whatever shit I want on my description. When people test my stuff, they will know what its capable of.

That is why people trust people who do testing. They can tell you what the device can do.
 
I could see purchasing it as a gift for younger kids or a 2nd tv for the family but I still think it's a mistake.

Buy nice or buy twice, XSX is the one to get.
 

Md Ray

Member
How can anyone conclude the X1X is more powerful than the XSS? There are other examples like this too. Great comparison.
It's pretty obvious that most of X1X's GPU resources are spent on higher rendering resolution. Bring the res down to Series S levels and you can add these higher quality draw distance to One X as well, and it will most likely have slightly more stable framerate than Series S too (if it's not bound by the Jaguar CPU).
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
One X had zero 120fps games none, just saying well it could do but it's held back by the CPU doesn't change the fact it had none. The CPU is an integral part of the APU and the Series S is just better.
Look at Jedi Fallen Order etc, when One X goes to the same resolution it still gets trumped by Series S.
 

Clear

Member
You can't optimize full-time on 2 SKU's, its really that simple. One is always going to get more time and attention than the other.
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
I went from a non believer to a wow this little thing is great.

Finally got to see one in action playing Halo Infinite MP on a 43" 1080p TV and I must say I was quite impressed

Plus MS is in a great spot for the Christmas sales season as I am seeing these little machines actually on store shelves
 

Orta

console wars 2020 - participant
Another pleasant surprise was that there was a list of all the Xbox 360 games I had played years ago, and I can just download the digital version, and it works. I thought that you needed the original disc to play old games that you owned on disc (which wouldn't work on the S), but it appears if you played a game 10 years ago on disc, it just lets you download it and play.

Forgive my ignorance, I'm very out of touch with the Xbox ecosystem, if I dig my 360 out of the attic, sign in to my console and stick all my 360 discs in it one by one just to the title screens, my Series S will know so when I buy one and I can download the aforementioned 360 games for free onto my new console?
 
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