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[MightySquirrel]

Framerate scales with CPU, resolution with GPU.

I believe both sku's will have the same cpu. However In order to match framerate at 1080p S model will have to be ~6TF or else X model will perform significantly better at 4K assuming same settings are used, if it stays 4 TF v 12 TF.

 

[The Alien]

It isn't going to cost $299 with a state of the art RDNA2 GPU, SSD, and Zen2 CPU guys.

Suppose we shall see. I think it needs to be $300 to move the way Microsoft wants it to.

Is it possible? Here's how it could be:
- Remove the 4k blu-ray disc drive.
- Reduce SSD capacity (500gb not 1tb)
- RDNA2 used by Microsoft across Series X, Lockhart, Surface products. They'll likely get a bigger 'bulk' discount than competitors.

Xbox Series S Price leaks at just $300 - MSPoweruser

Xbox Series S Price leaks at just $300 - MSPoweruser

The Xbox Series S price has leaked at a remarkably low price, somehow lower than the current-generation Xbox One X. But can we trust this leak?

mspoweruser.com

 

[ResilientBanana]

Suppose we shall see. I think it needs to be $300 to move the way Microsoft wants it to.

Is it possible? Here's how it could be:
- Remove the 4k blu-ray disc drive.
- Reduce SSD capacity (500gb not 1tb)
- RDNA2 used by Microsoft across Series X, Lockhart, Surface products. They'll likely get a bigger 'bulk' discount than competitors.

Xbox Series S Price leaks at just $300 - MSPoweruser

Xbox Series S Price leaks at just $300 - MSPoweruser

The Xbox Series S price has leaked at a remarkably low price, somehow lower than the current-generation Xbox One X. But can we trust this leak?

mspoweruser.com

Or simply be Microsoft and eat the cost.

But a $299 XSS seems like the price point they would want to hit considering that the XSX will most likely be $499 with 4 x the GPU power. Let’s also consider the difference between the XOS and the XOX which is about 5-6 x the GPU power of the S and their respective price points.

 

[mckmas8808]

Suppose we shall see. I think it needs to be $300 to move the way Microsoft wants it to.

Is it possible? Here's how it could be:
- Remove the 4k blu-ray disc drive.
- Reduce SSD capacity (500gb not 1tb)
- RDNA2 used by Microsoft across Series X, Lockhart, Surface products. They'll likely get a bigger 'bulk' discount than competitors.

Xbox Series S Price leaks at just $300 - MSPoweruser

Xbox Series S Price leaks at just $300 - MSPoweruser

The Xbox Series S price has leaked at a remarkably low price, somehow lower than the current-generation Xbox One X. But can we trust this leak?

mspoweruser.com

But this isn't the way corporations price their products. The Xbox division has share holders to face. They can't just eat too much cost on the hardware side. They are already eating some cost by offering GamePass to people for a $1 for 2 years.

 

[12Dannu123]

But this isn't the way corporations price their products. The Xbox division has share holders to face. They can't just eat too much cost on the hardware side. They are already eating some cost by offering GamePass to people for a $1 for 2 years.

This all depends on what MS shareholders want the Xbox division to do, do they want to focus on profit or grow the platform. Sony isn't a growth company and PS Division is a core business to Sony, so Sony investors will focus on profit to support the company and won't be happy for Sony to burn money on things like e.g $1 PS Now offerings. Microsoft is a growth company and Xbox is not a big business for MS so Microsoft investors will want Xbox to focus on growing the platform, so MS investors will be happy for MS to loss money on Xbox division as long as it the growth is good enough.

 

[IbizaPocholo]

The Series X Features that Didn't Make the Headlines - Thurrott.com

While we wait to see what Sony has to offer, I’ve been reading nearly everything published about the Series X and there are a few items that are worth noting as they got lost in all of the other announcements.

www.thurrott.com

 

[Neur4lN01s3]

Will be funny if Xbox Series S will be

same CPU but 3.5 GHz fixed freq.
GPU 36 CU@2GHz fixed freq.
16 GB GDDR6 256 bit 448GB/s
299$

 

[Robins]

This all depends on what MS shareholders want the Xbox division to do, do they want to focus on profit or grow the platform. Sony isn't a growth company and PS Division is a core business to Sony, so Sony investors will focus on profit to support the company and won't be happy for Sony to burn money on things like e.g $1 PS Now offerings. Microsoft is a growth company and Xbox is not a big business for MS so Microsoft investors will want Xbox to focus on growing the platform, so MS investors will be happy for MS to loss money on Xbox division as long as it the growth is good enough.

I'm pretty sure Microsoft investors have never been happy with Xbox and have wanted it sold off numerous times due to it being a money pit.

 

[oldergamer]

I'm pretty sure Microsoft investors have never been happy with Xbox and have wanted it sold off numerous times due to it being a money pit.

Thats a very wrong statement..

 

[Wolfgang Jr]

What specs will the Xbox Series E have?

Something for the hardcore and something for the softcore.

 

[Swaganizonda]

How many people are gonna run with;

XSS 4 Tflop weaker than 6Tflop One X

Prediction: a lot

 

[LittleBusters]

Rumors are Series S means 'Switch', meaning it's a Nintendo Switch type hardware. It can function as a handheld and then docked to be a normal console. Will be around ~4 TFLOPs.

 

[LittleBusters]

No matter how much you wanna defend lockhart-

no developers will admit is weak and is holding back the x
- microsoft will use the enhance word alot-

this means, basezvox must play the game without issues.

but reality is it will def. hold back xsx

— im hoping sony dont do 2 skus - Ot we will be playing gamea with only minor graphical differences— the physics of the games will remain the same -

I don't see the issue. Lockhart version of games will use 1080p assets. So it will be capable of 1080p/60fps, no problem at 4 TFLOPs. In the world of SVG, it's no problem to create the same asset that scales from 1080p to 2160p, so there is no extra effort required from the UX designers. It's probably just a few lines of code for the devs in a configuration file to enable Lockhart or Series X version of the game.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Amazing how little info we have on Lockhart aside from some random 4TF kinds of rumours.

I'm going to say it's a weaker system (obviously) and all-digital. Scrap the 4k drive to save costs and RT is really gimped/non-existent.

 

[Pallas]

I honestly believe the TF amount should of been around 6 on this and $299 might be kind of high, if anything this should be console to take loses on by pricing it competitively. I think the important is that this too will also have a NVme drive, but I’m wondering if less RAM(if that rumor is correct, same with the NVme SSD)than Series X will affect development?

and finally, I’m wondering if this will be a flat box or if it’ll share the unique design of Series X except colored white?

 

[njean777]

I honestly believe the TF amount should of been around 6 on this and $299 might be kind of high, if anything this should be console to take loses on by pricing it competitively. I think the important is that this too will also have a NVme drive, but I’m wondering if less RAM(if that rumor is correct, same with the NVme SSD)than Series X will affect development?

and finally, I’m wondering if this will be a flat box or if it’ll share the unique design of Series X except colored white?

If it exists I picture a discless console, with maybe 512gb of storage. Same ram and everything else but cut costs elsewhere. I don't see them handicapping their next big console. Let the Series X take the stage for 2 years and then send this out after all the costs go down for the main components, give it a smaller HDD and no disc drive to save more money and bam you have something that can hang. No reason right now to take the L on the power narrative.

MS can take the hit with a loss for each console sold with gamepads/live subs, and their proprietary storage cards. Along with controllers and such. They have the ability to do so.

 

[Windows-PC]

It's true. All of it.

KILLER INSTINCT 2!!!

 

[gamerforever]

Lockhart will damage series x sales and give sony a clear path to victory. People will simply get confused and ms simply do not have the exclusives sony have to carry off a cheap underpowered console. Then theres the confused messaging with xbox one x being available - which one will people go for? If its £300 people will perceive it as a cheap xbox and worse than ps5. I believe microsofts only strategy is to price the series x at the ps5 pricepoint and then see how it sells. Then possibly bring in the lockhart if both consoles aren’t selling too well. Ps5 needs to be £400 to get an easy win imo, but I think both will be £500 at launch.

 

[teezzy]

$400 Series X confirmed

They're going right for Sony's jugular

 

[John254]

Lockhart will damage series x sales and give sony a clear path to victory. People will simply get confused and ms simply do not have the exclusives sony have to carry off a cheap underpowered console. Then theres the confused messaging with xbox one x being available - which one will people go for? If its £300 people will perceive it as a cheap xbox and worse than ps5. I believe microsofts only strategy is to price the series x at the ps5 pricepoint and then see how it sells. Then possibly bring in the lockhart if both consoles aren’t selling too well. Ps5 needs to be £400 to get an easy win imo, but I think both will be £500 at launch.

Please stop with shit like "people will get confused." You are saying that if you have 2 tiered iPhone devices, people will just buy other device because they are confused?
Jesus, Samsung have clustertruck of similar branded phones (S20, S20 Plus, Note...) and your average Joe is not confused...

 

[gamerforever]

Please stop with shit like "people will get confused." You are saying that if you have 2 tiered iPhone devices, people will just buy other device because they are confused?
Jesus, Samsung have clustertruck of similar branded phones (S20, S20 Plus, Note...) and your average Joe is not confused...

This is a little different because Microsoft have confused the branding of Xbox as a whole and this will confuse them more. For example, average joe goes searches for the latest Xbox and sees theres the Series X an Series C. They read that the Series C is less powerful, but £300 and the Series X is £700, but far more powerful. PS5 sits there at £500, but is perceived to be similar to Series X in terms of power etc. Most people won't bother with the cheap Xbox and will go for the PS5. Series X price is too high that most casuals won't buy it and Series C is perceived to be like an iPhone SE. It simply won't work. Only strategy is Series X is priced the same or lower than PS5 for them to have a chance. I will probably get a Series X because I know multiplatform ports will be significantly better and there a vast back catalogue I have to catch up on due to being PS4 only this gen.

 

[Ten_Fold]

I know this might not be true but man. I was thinking of the lockheart was 9 flops and had a $299 or $349 that would make the next gen battle pretty interesting.

 

[Clear]

Still think this is such a horrible idea on so many levels, it would only be considered if the SX was priced at a point that borders on prohibitive.

 

[teezzy]

This is a little different because Microsoft have confused the branding of Xbox as a whole and this will confuse them more. For example, average joe goes searches for the latest Xbox and sees theres the Series X an Series C. They read that the Series C is less powerful, but £300 and the Series X is £700, but far more powerful. PS5 sits there at £500, but is perceived to be similar to Series X in terms of power etc. Most people won't bother with the cheap Xbox and will go for the PS5. Series X price is too high that most casuals won't buy it and Series C is perceived to be like an iPhone SE. It simply won't work. Only strategy is Series X is priced the same or lower than PS5 for them to have a chance. I will probably get a Series X because I know multiplatform ports will be significantly better and there a vast back catalogue I have to catch up on due to being PS4 only this gen.

Pure conjecture. We don't even have pricing details for any of these consoles. If Microsoft drops a model which competes directly with PS5, and a slightly weaker model - people are going to grasp it. Just like they did this gen.

 

[gamerforever]

Pure conjecture. We don't even have pricing details for any of these consoles. If Microsoft drops a model which competes directly with PS5, and a slightly weaker model - people are going to grasp it. Just like they did this gen.

People have invested too much into Playstation to just leave. Series X has to be £500 or less or its DOA.

 

[Goliathy]

People have invested too much into Playstation to just leave. Series X has to be £500 or less or its DOA.

we are not even sure if all those games people invested in are supported by ps5

 

[teezzy]

People have invested too much into Playstation to just leave. Series X has to be £500 or less or its DOA.

The average gamer left ps2 to go to 360 and left 360 to get a ps4. I dont see it being completely out of the realm of possibility people return to the xbox brand.

 

[njean777]

I really don't see the point of Lockhart right now, it would be weird for them to short change their new unreleased console at this time.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

To be perfectly honest, if I was Microsoft, I would scrap the Xbox Series S, wait for Sony to announce PS5's price tag which im now expecting to be $400 and then announce Xbox Series X for $400 as well.

While Microsoft would take a big loss on each console sold, selling Series S for $300 would result in the vast majority ignoring the more expensive Series X which makes it become a big loss anyway as well as overstocked. In my opinion, Microsoft would be better off going with just Series X and match the PS5 price tag.

 

[Infinite_Trajektory]

Probably won't happen. I'd love to see them drop the Lockhart at equal specs to the competitor at a lower price, having the X right at their baseline.

Would boost many markets, specifically NA and maybe even Europe.

As long as the studios are pumping, some contracts made for 3rd party / 2nd party IPs, some new IPs inhouse and awesome games being made. It'll put them back on the map. Much how the Scorpio team changed the view of the Xbox division.

 

[teezzy]

People who buy a Series S werent likely in the market for what the Series X in the first place. They couldn't be more wildly different products

 

[gamerforever]

To be perfectly honest, if I was Microsoft, I would scrap the Xbox Series S, wait for Sony to announce PS5's price tag which im now expecting to be $400 and then announce Xbox Series X for $400 as well.

While Microsoft would take a big loss on each console sold, selling Series S for $300 would result in the vast majority ignoring the more expensive Series X which makes it become a big loss anyway as well as overstocked. In my opinion, Microsoft would be better off going with just Series X and match the PS5 price tag.

Exactly, this is the best approach to take sony’s customerbase, because that is what microsoft really want.

 

[Goliathy]

To be perfectly honest, if I was Microsoft, I would scrap the Xbox Series S, wait for Sony to announce PS5's price tag which im now expecting to be $400 and then announce Xbox Series X for $400 as well.

While Microsoft would take a big loss on each console sold, selling Series S for $300 would result in the vast majority ignoring the more expensive Series X which makes it become a big loss anyway as well as overstocked. In my opinion, Microsoft would be better off going with just Series X and match the PS5 price tag.

I think this is what they are going to do. And then I no like1-2 years, they will release the seriesS for like $299 or so.

 

[Hotspurr]

Microsoft strategy is not to sell you a console, it's to make you buy into their ecosystem. Gamepass is killer value. Their streaming service will likely far surpass Sony's , and they will ultimately dominate the "games as a service" space. Their plan is to capture the casuals (Series S) and the hardcore (Series X), and also get a lot of the PC master race fence sitters to jump to the console side. They have a much more robust business strategy. Plus add the fact that they've bought a whole bunch of first party studios, AND they already have big names like Halo and Gears doing very well, they will have a very successful next gen. Not saying it'll be more successful that Sony's (because Sony has more global favoritism), but I fully expect M$ to gain more market share next gen.

 

[njean777]

Microsoft strategy is not to sell you a console, it's to make you buy into their ecosystem. Gamepass is killer value. Their streaming service will likely far surpass Sony's , and they will ultimately dominate the "games as a service" space. Their plan is to capture the casuals (Series S) and the hardcore (Series X), and also get a lot of the PC master race fence sitters to jump to the console side. They have a much more robust business strategy. Plus add the fact that they've bought a whole bunch of first party studios, AND they already have big names like Halo and Gears doing very well, they will have a very successful next gen. Not saying it'll be more successful that Sony's (because Sony has more global favoritism), but I fully expect M$ to gain more market share next gen.

While I agree with a lot of what you said, I really just don't see the point of releasing something that is gonna curtail all the power that you are touting. It just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe offer a smaller box in a few years with the same specs as what you are putting out now, that way no developers are hamstrung to having to develop for a weaker consoles. Especially if the cheaper one sells more, than what's the point in a developer putting in the extra work for the XSX?

IDK the more I think about it I don't think Lockhart exists, and if it does I can maybe see it being a revamp of the ONE X that is meant for streaming/One games, but won't play Series X games.

 

[Hotspurr]

While I agree with a lot of what you said, I really just don't see the point of releasing something that is gonna curtail all the power that you are touting. It just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe offer a smaller box in a few years with the same specs as what you are putting out now, that way no developers are hamstrung to having to develop for a weaker consoles. Especially if the cheaper one sells more, than what's the point in a developer putting in the extra work for the XSX?

IDK the more I think about it I don't think Lockhart exists, and if it does I can maybe see it being a revamp of the ONE X that is meant for streaming/One games, but won't play Series X games.

Well even the X is supposed to play Microsoft published SX games for 2 years. Lokhart is a weird device. If they will rebrand the One X as the series S, that would make sense to me. Many developers aren't just going to throw out new games on a next gen console. At least for a year or two we'll see many multiplatform crossgen games (the last gen install base is enormous). Even if there are more advanced games, if you take a 4K game today that runs on the X at 30 FPS, and then bump the effects, textures, get it to 60 FPS and add in substantial RT, that's probably PLENTY to make up the power difference between the two (X one and XS).

 

[Agnostic2020]

Imagine creating a 12 tf console and then going right ahead and screwing it over with a 4tf machine

Hope its just a rumor

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Imagine creating a 12 tf console and then going right ahead and screwing it over with a 4tf machine

Hope its just a rumor

Imagine thinking compute scaled to resolution would actually hold hardware back.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Imagine thinking compute scaled to resolution would actually hold hardware back.

I have watched few devs on different podcasts that it does effect and games will be scaled down and not up. We ll see

 

[Swaganizonda]

A 12Tflop console held back by another that doesn't even have as much Tflops than Xbox one X. 4Tflps is it?

On top of that, *both* next gen machines held back by a 1Tflop OG xbox one because MS wants everything cross-gen for 2 years.

Not a good start.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

A 12Tflop console held back by another that doesn't even have as much Tflops than Xbox one X. 4Tflps is it?

On top of that, *both* next gen machines held back by a 1Tflop OG xbox one because MS wants everything cross-gen for 2 years.

Not a good start.

You guys have completely stopped trying.

If I have a 2080 Ti in my PC and I run a game at 4K 60 FPS with Ultra settings, what will happen if I put an RTX 2060 in that same PC?

I'll be able to run at the same 60 FPS, and at the same Ultra settings at a lower resolution. This isn't hard to understand, the bait around here is really weak.

 

[xool]

The Lockhart chip on GitHub doesn’t have Xbox One X BC mode... just Xbox One BC mode.

The Scarlett (Xbox Series X) has both BC modes.

That is what you can find in GitHub... what that means I don’t know.

What Lockhart chip on github - how many CUs ? / what id?

don't think there was one. You sure ?

 

[Bankai]

This seems so close to an Xbox One X I can't see any real reason for it to exist outside of marketing.

No offense, but this comment shows how little people know and understand about hardware and architecture. TFLOPS ALONE DON'T MEAN ANYTHING

The WEAK Jaguar CPU coreS in the Xbox One X bottleneck the system extremely. Also, there's no SSD and/or dedicated hardware to "truly" support SSD throughput. Also, RAM is slower (GDDR5) than next-gen.

A 4Tflop RDNA2 + Zen2 + SSD + GDDR6 based system is on an entirely different level compared to current gen (which = Xbox One X).

 

[xool]

This seems so close to an Xbox One X I can't see any real reason for it to exist outside of marketing.

CPU needs to be more powerful than jaguar to play next gen games. And it needs the SSD too for same reason.

It's just be the GPU nerfed for 1080p only, plus a little smaller ram for lesser textures.

.. if it exists

 

[ethomaz]

What Lockhart chip on github - how many CUs ? / what id?

don't think there was one. You sure ?

There is two chips in GitHub.

Arden, 56CUs, RT, XB1 BC mode, XB1X BC mode... supposed to be Xbox Series X.

Sparckman, 56CUs, RT, only XB1 BC mode... supposed to be Lockhart due having only XB1 BC mode and not XB1X BC mode.

 

[xool]

There is two chips in GitHub.

Arden, 56CUs, RT, XB1 BC mode, XB1X BC mode... supposed to be Xbox Series X.

Sparckman, 56CUs, RT, only XB1 BC mode... supposed to be Lockhart due having only XB1 BC mode and not XB1X BC mode.

56CU chips isn't going to be the cheap one - Sparkman/Arden probably the same thing, different revisions, or v2 chip, or possibly different codenames of the GPU part of the APU and the whole APU.

 

[ethomaz]

56CU chips isn't going to be the cheap one - Sparkman/Arden probably the same thing, different revisions, or v2 chip, or possibly different codenames of the GPU part of the APU and the whole APU.

I’m just sharing what GutHub has.
From all info only the number of CUs for PS5 was right in GitHun... failed in everything else.

 

[Wolfgang Jr]

Rumors are Series S means 'Switch', meaning it's a Nintendo Switch type hardware. It can function as a handheld and then docked to be a normal console. Will be around ~4 TFLOPs.

I'm down with this.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Lockhart will damage series x sales and give sony a clear path to victory. People will simply get confused and ms simply do not have the exclusives sony have to carry off a cheap underpowered console. Then theres the confused messaging with xbox one x being available - which one will people go for? If its £300 people will perceive it as a cheap xbox and worse than ps5. I believe microsofts only strategy is to price the series x at the ps5 pricepoint and then see how it sells. Then possibly bring in the lockhart if both consoles aren’t selling too well. Ps5 needs to be £400 to get an easy win imo, but I think both will be £500 at launch.

lower TFLOPS means less ray-tracing and resolution which are settings that can be toggled. Don’t kid yourself. Xbox One S didn’t hold back the Xbox One X from higher resolutions and 4K asset packs. The same thing for the PS4 and the PS4 Pro, however, I don’t remember any game on my PS4 Pro getting any sort of 4K asset packs, only bumps in resolution and sometimes frame rate.

You guys have completely stopped trying.

If I have a 2080 Ti in my PC and I run a game at 4K 60 FPS with Ultra settings, what will happen if I put an RTX 2060 in that same PC?

I'll be able to run at the same 60 FPS, and at the same Ultra settings at a lower resolution. This isn't hard to understand, the bait around here is really weak.

Remember, the narrative around these parts are 10.3 > 12 and that games are not scaleable, and only Sony has games. This fits the "Sony is better than Xbox and PC" bullshit that people keep shitting from their brains. Logical people understand there's pros and cons to each system but none of the systems are inherently bad.

 

[Esppiral]

$400 Series X confirmed

They're going right for Sony's jugular

Source?