Pimpbaa
Member
On what? PC ports of games designed for current gen consoles? PC games would look a hell of a lot different right now if the minimum spec was 8 cores/16 threads and a fast SSD.
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Xbox Series X constrained by 'must also work on Xbox One' decree
- Thread starter Matt_Fox
- Start date
On what? PC ports of games designed for current gen consoles? PC games would look a hell of a lot different right now if the minimum spec was 8 cores/16 threads and a fast SSD.
We have examples of PC games built for that spec right now.
I’m not sure why you assume that hardware needs to be put in a games console in order for it to exist.
Pimpbaa
Member
Like Star Citizen which runs like dogshit on anything but an SSD? New consoles always raise the minimum requirements of PC games because they become the newest lowest common denominator. Doesn't stop some PC only developer from making a game before that that targets only 8 cores+ and a SSD, but that does greatly limit their audience.
“Runs like dogshit” =/= to does not work, or holds the game back.
Cutting edge games almost always “run like shit” on old hardware. That’s the reason we upgrade.
Consoles are not the lowest common denominator especially at launch.
Pimpbaa
Member
It might as well not work because no one is going to want a game on current gen systems that runs like Star Citizen does on less than recommended hardware. And thus a very poor example of scalability.
Lowest common denominator not at launch, new consoles do experience a very brief moment of graphic superiority but that moment gets shorter with each gen it seems. Also, in cases of next gen only (and PC) exclusives, consoles specs DO become the minimum spec or at least the minimum recommended spec. Anyone with say a 4-core/8-thread cpu, gefore 1070, and no SSD is going to have very rough time running next gen console game ports (although no problem with cross gen titles).
If the star citizen devs wanted to optimize for a single closed spec, they could improve performance, and plenty of console games play at 720p sub 30fps. In fact some of the most beloved console games run at “dogshit” levels.
At launch is what this topic is about. Old hardware is phased out as it no longer can meet the artistic and economic needs of developers. Not just because consoles launch.
Kumomeme
Member
if i not mistaken, it variant of dekstop cpu tailored for console..well we didnt have proper leak all this time...but atleast better than jaguar
Grinchy
Banned
This PR spin was so brilliant that you now have fans arguing that a 7 year increase in hardware makes no significant difference all to justify just one year of not having first party software that will take advantage of it.
When that year is up, and first party XSX software is no longer supported on last gen hardware, will we see them arguing that MS is being dumb by not "downscaling" their games anymore?
At some point you have to see this reality for what it is. The first year only has cross gen enhanced first party titles that are just Xbone games. And that's not the end of the world. All this talk of scalability and standard SSDs making no significant difference....it's all pointless. All of that dies the second MS is able to finally get their real next gen software out.
When that year is up, and first party XSX software is no longer supported on last gen hardware, will we see them arguing that MS is being dumb by not "downscaling" their games anymore?
At some point you have to see this reality for what it is. The first year only has cross gen enhanced first party titles that are just Xbone games. And that's not the end of the world. All this talk of scalability and standard SSDs making no significant difference....it's all pointless. All of that dies the second MS is able to finally get their real next gen software out.
Pimpbaa
Member
I'm sure they could optimize it just fine for next gen consoles. Current gen? That would be an impossible task or a completely different game. Also I don't think current gen consoles would appreciate 720p sub 30fps. Even on the Switch that sucks unless you are playing in portable mode.
No this thread is about MS constraining developers by forcing them to make their games crossgen. And this isn't just for launch. Also old hardware gets phased out a lot quicker when new consoles launch (again because of the next gen only games).
Don’t know about impossible. We already have examples of people playing the game on pretty low spec hardware.
No it’s not. Who said that?
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Shmunter
Member
Conversation is going in circles with some shooting from the hip without even doing a second of homework on what next gen is proposing to bring forth...
Probably best for some to see this video on the potential of a closed system SSD. Need to highlight POTENTIAL as we don’t have the systems in our hands yet. Suffice it to say, MS and Sony is touting the ssd solution as a direct memory access layer, not a mere traditional hard drive storage alternative....
If indeed the solution is as proposed then this video is a good indicator of next gen....
Probably best for some to see this video on the potential of a closed system SSD. Need to highlight POTENTIAL as we don’t have the systems in our hands yet. Suffice it to say, MS and Sony is touting the ssd solution as a direct memory access layer, not a mere traditional hard drive storage alternative....
If indeed the solution is as proposed then this video is a good indicator of next gen....
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Pimpbaa
Member
We do? How low? What resolutions and framerate? And does it stutter like shit like it supposedly does on anything less than a SSD. The default 5400rpm hard drives in current consoles alone might make it damn near impossible add to that the terrible jaguar cores.
The OP.
Kumomeme
Member
If you follow the gaming news atlest 7 years ago, you will read atleast few of these articles quoting devs concern.
Are you saying, gta v is a prove that devs didnt get held back? Seriously? That game hailed as technical achievement due to how they managed to achieved the visual despite oudated hardware.Devs are constrained by console specs especially 256mb of memory.GTA V is crossgen. It developed with ps360 baseline from beginning. Why there are not Red Dead Redemption 2 on ps360?
here i quoted Dice developers regarding battlefield 3, in interview with geforce site:
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alabtrosMyster
Banned
Show me those 720p sub 30fps games on the PS4, they don't exist (there may be one, but I can't find it)... and if a AAA game is released in this state and it's badged "cross gen" it would prove you wrong would it not?
The whole point is that some features may not be implemented because of the mandate, you can argue until your face is red, lower the bar for what's acceptable (it's already pretty low on the xbone)... etc. but right now this is all speculation, and people gave you many examples and reasons why it was actually the case, it doesn't matter that many games will be just fine, or even that 90+% of games would meet usual performance target for their hardware, we just need one game that requires an order of magnitude of computational/IO bandwidth and you will be proven wrong... even your own argument lies in the idea that this game could never come in the first few months for whatever reason.
Xbox Series X constrained by 'must also work on Xbox One' decree
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
PC games are built with a 8 Core/16 thread CPU and a SSD as a requirement?
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
The PS5’s SSD could spell doom for next-gen PC game ports
There's a chance the console's SSD could be a boon to PC gamers, but equally it might mean we're only seen as a last-gen platform
www.pcgamesn.com
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
"PS5. The safe space for the next generation."
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Kumomeme
Member
brap
Banned
Yeah, it's awful. Where's all the
Shmunter
Member
Article is pure logic, nothing more nothing less. And exactly what is needed to clear the air.The PS5’s SSD could spell doom for next-gen PC game ports
There's a chance the console's SSD could be a boon to PC gamers, but equally it might mean we're only seen as a last-gen platform
The dice quote was said as they were working on a cross gen game.
You can’t post their quote and not acknowledge that they were able to make a cross gen game that took advantage of new hardware and still worked on last gen. Besides that battlefield was already a very different game on consoles than PC. So please explain how the existence of x360 held back battlefield? Seems devs figured out a long time ago how to support a large range of hardware.
Your morridor example is the same. The old gen game exists, yet the new gen version was able to innovate and push new hardware.
So again how did the existence of the old gen version hold back the new one?
Your square enix quote isn’t about games development, or anything being held back. He’s talking about in a business sense. At that time it was thought consoles were failing and the thought was a new generation would bring new excitement and opportunities. That quote has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
I say you are only talking about Sony because they will be the only devs not making cross gen games. All other devs will be making games for a wide range of hardware. Therefore Sony’s games should easily prove your theory.
E-Cat
Member
"Only SJW cucks buy a PS5."
Star Citizen Minimum System Requirements
Memory – 16GB
Graphics Card – AMD Radeon R5 M330
CPU – Intel Core 2 Quad Q9000
Storage – 40GB
Operating System – Windows 7 64 bit, Service Pack 1 or higher
And where does the op say anything about Microsoft forcing devs to make cross gen games?
Late and cross gen games always run like shit on consoles. I remember trying watch dogs on PS3 and it was terrible. Or the aforementioned GTAV ran bad on last gen. Currently games like control and RDR2 have terrible performance.
How would it prove me wrong? My only point is that devs will continue to support old hardware until it no longer makes technical or financial sense. That’s how it’s always worked.
Like I said when the games release. Sony will be the only dev release next gen only games. Those improvements should be glaring and exclusive to Sony games.
“Microsoft forcing devs to make cross gen games”
Two very different things. This was never a claim of Microsoft. Don’t know where you guys pulled that from.[/QUOTE]
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Kumomeme
Member
dont ignore the dice devs quote saying clearly that console held back game development..it stated clear there...wether the devs later managed to optimized or no is another story...dont forget because they cant abandoned 360/ps3 is the reason they still optimize it.And there i give quote from founder A Way Out developers there.With stronger baseline, they can raise the bar higher.Devs 'figure' it but there still limitation to it.As i said, 'scale' not a magic slider.
here quote from crytek boss if you still not satisfied:
you dont understand the shadow of mordor example...360 had gimped version of nemesis system.Why?search for your heart, you know it true.
you keep asking for quote but dont ignore DF quote that i quoted regarding the nemesis system on 360 end up.
Julies mceron is technical director...he previously overseer fox engine and even luminous studio..he there talk about agni philosophy tech demo and the interview is focusing on technical stuff why on earth he would suddenly talk about bussiness perspective?.. here full quote of the interview in the link(you can read it..lot of interesting stuff) i gave:
this would not prove i talk 'exclusively for sony' ..i talk on behalf both next gen console including xbsx, on concern of ms first party get held up by old console.They are currently out there aquiring studio. Also because they(insomniac for example.) only devs openly spoke up about certain benefit of hardware like SSD..im gladly to quote other devs including ms devs if there are ..well ofcourse they didnt have to concern of weaker ps4..i hope ms first party devs also will be alleviated by this concern.I also mention other developers there.Dont forget, other multiplat devs out there also didnt have the constraint..they could abandon ps4 and xb1 when they feel not relevant,once both console (ps5/xbsx) sales reached certain figure.Only reason they might keep support ps4/xb1 as how it happened with ps360 is due to large install base and with both ps5/xbsx launch, it will speed up ssd adoption for pc users.Sooner or later it will be new standard.Thats why i said, look for pc requirement when talk about 'scale'.None of those game on pc had min pc requirement of intel atom and hd7790/r240 at first place.Requirement are increase, at this gen cpu core requirement increase to 4, and from DF analysis of RDR2 its forecasted that 6 core would be minimum.With ssd in console, it would raise the bar higher..ssd priced are predicted to fall down more..we can see in 2-3 years perhaps.
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Heinrich
Banned
Yes. This is 10000000000000% confirmed. Devs are allowed to develop games that do not work on Xbox one (x)
it’s True. It’s confirmed. For non-Xbox studios.
Xbox studios are allowed to do the same but it must be released after 12 months of series X release.
What exactly is so hard to get about this?
Also, one X was a Midgen refresh.
Shmunter
Member
There’s nothing hard to get about it if it’s been confirmed. I tend to keep my fingers on the pulse and I’ve simply missed the confirmation, nothing nefarious. Would be highly displeased if it were not confirmed as it would hold back 3rd party on other systems too..
I welcome pointer to confirmation for my own reading please.
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darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
The interview where that info originated from wasn't even about Xbox Series X. Matt Booty was asked about Xbox One first party support in the future and he said that they are aware that people may have just bought an SAD or a One X and they will ensure that they will keep supporting them with games for the next year or two. That interview was made at X019 in November.
“As our content comes out over the next year, two years, all of our games, sort of like PC, will play up and down that family of devices,” Booty explains. “We want to make sure that if someone invests in Xbox between now and [Series X] that they feel that they made a good investment and that we’re committed to them with content.”
Nothing was ever said that suggested third parties would need to do the same. In fact third party games will all be multiplatform by default, as with every new console generation. You want to sell your games to 150 million people instead of 10 million.
Shmunter
Member
10000000000000% confirmed!!
You mean, 3rd party mandate has not been confirmed in any way. Sheeesh, got me excited for nothing with the 10000000000000% hyperbole.
Journey
Banned
I like how this has blown up based on a single comment from MS to continue supporting old hardware, which should be positive news, lest we forget the outrage when Xbox 360 was launching and everyone was going bananas about how we can't trust MS since they essentially abandon their loyal gamers and force them to move to new hardware.
I don't think it matters what they announce, had they said the complete opposite, I'm sure there would be outrage about abandoning their brand or some other made up concern.
But here's an important question... why isn't anyone talking about Godfall? we don't have any visual proof of any games getting constrained, yet we have gameplay of a PS5 only title that looks constrained
I don't think it matters what they announce, had they said the complete opposite, I'm sure there would be outrage about abandoning their brand or some other made up concern.
But here's an important question... why isn't anyone talking about Godfall? we don't have any visual proof of any games getting constrained, yet we have gameplay of a PS5 only title that looks constrained
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Kumomeme
Member
But here's an important question... why isn't anyone talking about Godfall? we don't have any visual proof of any games getting constrained, yet we have gameplay of a PS5 only title that looks constrained
its actually an old footage of the game, prebuild unoptimized version of it for the studio's milestone progress review...if i not mistaken
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Second or third time in the thread you throw the same hook
. So yeah, some people are talking about the game that supposedly proofs exclusives do not matter, etc... thanks to internally leaked old test footage.Somehow I think that for some reason 12-24 months from now these some people will mysteriously be all hyped up about exclusives and their game changing properties on XSX and Lockhart, not long to have to keep this position for
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Matt_Fox
Member
When next gen gaming is with us I'm hoping - and I suspect most of us on Neogaf are hoping - that comments like "this simply wouldn't have been possible on past gen!" become the norm.
Really this thread is about being unshackled from the past. It's going to be a massively exciting time to be a gamer, and it still feels like such a long wait... but it's coming!
Really this thread is about being unshackled from the past. It's going to be a massively exciting time to be a gamer, and it still feels like such a long wait... but it's coming!
Journey
Banned
Second or third time in the thread you throw the same hook
Somehow I think that for some reason 12-24 months from now these some people will mysteriously be all hyped up about exclusives and their game changing properties on XSX and Lockhart, not long to have to keep this position for
I don't think you understood my point, and I spoke about this on another thread complaining about the same issue. When the PS3 launched (and I bring up the PS3 because it had a complex architecture) it had quite a few games that were programmed specifically with the PS3 in mind, no cross gen in the mix, yet the games were completely underwhelming.
Gundam Crossfire had to be the worse looking PS3 of all time, and understandably because it was a launch title and the team was probably dealing with floating, non-finalized specs, so my point is, during the first year or so of the launch of new console and a transition period between an old and new generation, games will have a visual upgrade over the last gen, but nowhere the significance that we will see with 2nd generation games, it's been a theme for all launches "Just wait until 2nd generation games and you'll really see what this new system is capable of".
So why are we so worried about 1st generation games being built from the ground up on PS5 or XseriesX? Does it guarantee that the game will look miles better than a game that was built to scale?
That's why I bring both GodFall and Gundam Crossfire, not to knock on the PS3 or PS5 or claim that an exclusive won't have its benefits, but to explain how trivial this whole argument is, being exclusive to the new generation doesn't guarantee the best visuals and often times games still look horrible, more importantly its attributed to the talent of the developer. When Godfall looks like it could have been made on PS4 as well, the excuse is that its unfinished, but if Halo Infinite doesn't look like a generation leap, then the same is not considered, even if some of the detail shown is mighty impressive and definitely not possible on Xbox One.
Gundam Crossfire could've easily been made on the PS2 as well, and GodFall could've easily been made on the PS4 as well, so why waste that opportunity during the transition? 2nd generation XSX games will be fully exclusive, aften launch titles don't take full advantage anyway and probably because this practice was already in place before, except not vocalized.
