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Platform Xbox Velocity Architecture - 100 GB is instantly accessible by the developer through a custom hardware decompression block

Panajev2001a

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THAT'S SO COOL!
...
.....
Has PC also had PCIE4 transfer speeds all those years?

Does PC even have any game designed around PCIE4 transfer speeds?

Last time I looked PC games had the same corridors, doors and obstacles hiding loading times, and they can also have pop-in.
It is almost as if Cerny was talking about SSD in the context of a $399 console box... yeah.., hard to decipher this one is :rolleyes:.
 

Goliathy

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You mean these things?



Whoops!

P.S. It's a completely different situation, a proprietary format makes no sense for these handhelds as a necessitive hardware requirement, for these consoles it does.
You mean these things?



Whoops!

P.S. It's a completely different situation, a proprietary format makes no sense for these handhelds as a necessitive hardware requirement, for these consoles it does.
is that you:

 

Allandor

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We don't need currently better textures or more space for them. They are as sharp now on PC as modern cameras can take reference pictures. Hope they will use more ram for better things than textures even sharper that I can see on my 4k monitor
Like some xbox360 BC titles show, sharp textures weren't even a problem back then. The hardware was just not capable enough to show them all the time. With the current gen Texture resolution made a big jump, but still the Hardware was not capable to show this all the time.
Then we've got ultra high Texture Packs, that used plenty of space but did not really change a lot. Now we get the hardware to use these ultra high res textures all the time on consoles.
We really don't need better textures, we need better lighting and shadows. Well and higher fps won't hurt ;)
 
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Panajev2001a

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You mean these things?



Whoops!

P.S. It's a completely different situation, a proprietary format makes no sense for these handhelds as a necessitive hardware requirement, for these consoles it does.
Lol... fair game fellow PSP and PSVita owner, surely you were defending them in the forum ;).
It made sense then and now or neither, you are trying to have it both ways.
 

Dr.D00p

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This is interesting for how it will affect PC ports of these new games over the generation, as the PC can't match the throughput of these custom interface SSD's with their hardware decrompession chips, the only possible way for a PC to match it, for a similar smooth, seemless experience, is to use physical RAM as storage instead, which is still MUCH faster than any SSD, new consoles included.

..This could mean you'll really need more than 16GB of RAM for PC ports to run as well as they do on the series X.
 

Techies

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20Gbps. So that equates to 2.5GB/sec. How are you going to make up the shortfall of 3.5GB/sec? Use all 3 USB ports in tandem?
If It'S 20Gbps then it's USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 which already should be using two lanes. Still 2.5 GB/sec is still 5-6 times faster than a traditional hard-drive which should suffice for most.

If the consoles went for USB4 it would of solved most of the confusion and pushed it up to 5GB/sec which would be enough to handle m2 drives.
 

Rightisright

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This is the same guy who said PS4 Pro is 8.4 TeraFlops because of fp16 and half floats . Lets not forget that Sony marketed both the PS2 and PS3 as the second coming of Jesus. GAF threads before PS3 release were just like now with all the SSD talk.
Conversely Microsoft has always been on the point about their hardware.
Back in the PS2 and PS3 eras Sony just flat out lied about their system specs. Not only that but put out GCI footage as in game. You couldn't trust a thing they said.
Wasn't the PS3 2tflops?
 
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-kb-

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Back in the PS2 and PS3 eras Sony just flat out lied about their system specs. Not only that but put out GCI footage as in game. You couldn't trust a thing they said.
Wasn't the PS3 2tflops?
Its ironic because the PS3 2TFLOPS was quoted in the same way that the XSX ~25TFLOPS is, its the fixed function texturing hardware included.
 
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Dec 1, 2018
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At best sony will cut the load time to half?
Right now things are on standard HDD, and the loading times are not bad, typically in the sub 30s range, SDDs in general will already cut that in half. So Sony might have the advantage of 5-6s loading time?
For next gen titles with larger assets there may be a large difference, maybe 10 extra seconds? Oh no
Better SSD is definitely nice to have, and there will be a tangible difference between the consoles.

As for 4K 60 FPS, Xbox will have the edge there. It's unclear to me whether the power budget they gave to the PS5 will keep it cool. If the PS5 sounds like the jet engine PS4 Pro, that's quite annoying. Your 3D audio will be supplemented by jet engine audio unless you turn up the sound pretty high (or wear headphones). Towards the later stages of console life, the PS5 and XSX will likely behave like the OG PS4 and Xbox One, where the one struggled quite a bit. But, by that point they will release new consoles, likely with better everything, so these points will be moot.

At the end of the day, the smart move is the following:
1) Wait to see the noise and heat levels of the consoles, making sure there are no glaring flaws (like a RROD scenario or jet engine fan performance)
2) Buy the console that has your favorite games on it

The only way I see PS5 falling behind is if they launch at an equivalent or higher price. If they launch at a lower price (by say even $50), they will still be quite a bit ahead.
Personally because I play multiplatform, I would buy the console that has more longevity built into it. Sony exclusives generally do nothing for me, especially since they ruined things I used to love like GoW.
At 5.5gb/s raw itll take 2.9 seconds to load all 16gb on the ps5 and at 9gb/s compressed itll take 1.7 seconds to load all 16gb on ps5 dont forget it took 0.8 seconds to load spider man on ps5.

And as for series x with 2.5gb/s ssd itll take 6.4 seconds to load all 16gb hence as seen on the demos theyve shown it took 5-10 seconds to load games but as i keep saying the ssd go far beyond load times the ps5 will be phenomenally good in asset quality per frame and i can see procedural tesselation or asset loading to be done magically frame by frame but both consoles will basically be running whole games inside memory.
 
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T-Cake

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If It'S 20Gbps then it's USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 which already should be using two lanes. Still 2.5 GB/sec is still 5-6 times faster than a traditional hard-drive which should suffice for most.

If the consoles went for USB4 it would of solved most of the confusion and pushed it up to 5GB/sec which would be enough to handle m2 drives.
The PS5 is 5.5GB/sec so you're still at least 0.5GB short. 😉
 

longdi

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You do not need 7 GB/s NVME drives for PS5, the overhead is not 1.5 GB/s out of 5.5 GB/s. That was just an example of the speed SSD’s are going to reach in the next 8-12 months.

It is useful to be able to bring your drive around in a plug and play manner, but you may be able to do with the internal drive (depend on the design) and backing the game up to a USB 3.2 drive.

I remember when the Sony patent about something that looked the SAME as the Xbox plug and play proprietary storage solution and they were assaulted and ridiculed PS Vita cards style, so I am a bit curious the about face... Normally the off the shelves / open market storage solution is THE pro consumer one.
Should MS charge 2-3 times the price of a nvme equivalent drive, i will change my avatar to a PSVita memory stick.

Until then, in Phil we trust. Im giving him the benefit of doubt seeing how his powers surpassed the 'great' Mark Cerny now.

And im sure you need at least PCIe4 nvme drives to be compatible with PS5, im betting 7gbs since Mark said they will start testing after PS5 launch, just nice when 7gbs nvme are out...
 
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VFXVeteran

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Yea, the new XSX is a beast. I gotta give MS props on this one. Price is probably going to be insane though.
 

Panajev2001a

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Should MS charge 2-3 times the price of a nvme equivalent drive, i will change my avatar to a PSVita memory stick.

Until then, in Phil we trust. Im giving him the benefit of doubt seeing how his powers surpassed the 'great' Mark Cerny now.
:LOL:... sure sure. First you set a ridiculous markup (based on what figures?) then just go into a Phil trance, ok it was entertaining though... we shall see how things keep shaking out as time goes by). Not sure when Phil has not received the benefit of the doubt to be fair hehe.

And im sure you need at least PCIe4 nvme drives to be compatible with PS5, im betting 7gbs since Mark said they will start testing after PS5 launch, just nice when 7gbs nvme are out...
Now you are just making it up as you go ;).
 

longdi

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:LOL:... sure sure. First you set a ridiculous markup (based on what figures?) then just go into a Phil trance, ok it was entertaining though... we shall see how things keep shaking out as time goes by). Not sure when Phil has not received the benefit of the doubt to be fair hehe.


Now you are just making it up as you go ;).
My markup figures was based on Psvita cards vs microsd cards IIRC.

As for 7gbs, nope, i posted this earlier. 7gbs is the only one that make sense. Redundancy is what he said. And you cant test something that is not out yet....

Else Mark Sony has to develop his games for the lowest common denominator? ouch! team X wins again?

 
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Panajev2001a

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My markup figures was based on Psvita cards vs microsd cards IIRC.

As for 7gbs, nope, i posted this earlier. 7gbs is the only one that make sense. Redundancy is what he said. And you cant test something that is not out yet....

Else Mark Sony has to develop his games for the lowest common denominator? ouch! team X wins again?

Lol, you want to just win on everything so bad you really are pulling things out of a hat :lol. He said “yep, 5.5 GB/s and a bit seems a lot, but next generation SSD drives are already shooting for 7 GB/s, so it will not be a problem for long” which you twisted and stretched to get the narrative you wanted.

Same about the PSVita markup as you are comparing it to cheapest of the cheap SD cards (as if they had all amazing R/W guaranteed speed)...
 
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longdi

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Lol, you want to just win on everything so bad you really are pulling things out of a hat :lol. He said “yep, 5.5 GB/s and a bit seems a lot, but next generation SSD drives are already shooting for 7 GB/s, so it will not be a problem for long” which you twisted and stretched to get the narrative you wanted.

Same about the PSVita markup as you are comparing it to cheapest of the cheap SD cards (as if they had all amazing R/W guaranteed speed)...
You not paying attention to Mark speech? Im disappointed in you as im in Sony!
He said the standard nvme needs to be at least as fast as PS5 ssd, but because of priority lanes, the nvme drives need extra speed. Sony will release the compatibility list sometime after PS5 launch.
Hmm....from above which standard nvme have >5.5gbs? :messenger_spock:

In comparison to microSDs out there, we see the Vita cards operating at the equivalent of Class 2 to Class 6, depending on what kind of mood you catch it in (the class system is defined by write speeds). Read times are not really covered by the SD Class system, but in our experience they're either the same or quite a bit better - flash memory in general tends to be more challenged when it comes to writing data as opposed to reading it back.

The Vita cards seem to max out at somewhere in-between 6MB/s to 8MB/s, generally speaking - quite a large delta. At the time of writing, a 16GB Vita card costs around £40 while a Class 10 MicroSD with a reputable brand, offering the same storage, can be purchased from Amazon for as little as £10.
 

Panajev2001a

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You not paying attention to Mark speech? Im disappointed in you as im in Sony!
He said the standard nvme needs to be at least as fast as PS5 ssd, but because of priority lanes, the nvme drives need extra speed. Sony will release the compatibility list sometime after PS5 launch.
Hmm....from above which standard nvme have >5.5gbs? :messenger_spock:
I watched the speech, perhaps I happen to remember it though ;). He said that drives that do not match PS5’s solution specs need their controller to do some arbitration on top that may require a little bit extra bandwidth which you are stretching to be 1.5 GB/s on top of the 5.5 GB/s spec and then he mentioned that upcoming SSD’s are both adding new features (may add the priority levels needed) and speed which would qualify under the compatibility guidelines they have laid out and quoted that number as an example to prove that while 5.5 GB/s seems a lot now, it will not be a problem for long.

:LOL: I remember this embarrassing test. Using an USB cable and Sony’s Content Manager software to backup your data as some sort of proof:
“What isn't conclusive is whether Content Manager has issues resulting in the poor write speeds, and whether encrypting/decrypting content might have an impact” :rolleyes:.
 

FranXico

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Dont laugh cause micros fanboys will be right back there again with the amount of hype they keep boosting themselves. I remember when the 360 was king and xbox fanboys would be relentless with the superior multiplat threads and ps3 george foreman memes. FANBOYS in general suck.
It's 2006 all over again. That's the reality.
 
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At 5.5gb/s raw itll take 2.9 seconds to load all 16gb on the ps5 and at 9gb/s compressed itll take 1.7 seconds to load all 16gb on ps5 dont forget it took 0.8 seconds to load spider man on ps5.

And as for series x with 2.5gb/s ssd itll take 6.4 seconds to load all 16gb hence as seen on the demos theyve shown it took 5-10 seconds to load games but as i keep saying the ssd go far beyond load times the ps5 will be phenomenally good in asset quality per frame and i can see procedural tesselation or asset loading to be done magically frame by frame but both consoles will basically be running whole games inside memory.
You realize that Spiderman was optimized for the PS5? None of the games shown for Xbox was optimized. It was just regular quality of life functions just by being played on the machine. Only way to judge is to see how long it takes to go from XSX games.
 

longdi

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I watched the speech, perhaps I happen to remember it though ;). He said that drives that do not match PS5’s solution specs need their controller to do some arbitration on top that may require a little bit extra bandwidth which you are stretching to be 1.5 GB/s on top of the 5.5 GB/s spec and then he mentioned that upcoming SSD’s are both adding new features (may add the priority levels needed) and speed which would qualify under the compatibility guidelines they have laid out and quoted that number as an example to prove that while 5.5 GB/s seems a lot now, it will not be a problem for long.


:LOL: I remember this embarrassing test. Using an USB cable and Sony’s Content Manager software to backup your data as some sort of proof:
“What isn't conclusive is whether Content Manager has issues resulting in the poor write speeds, and whether encrypting/decrypting content might have an impact” :rolleyes:.
The arbitration is done by PS5 controller, the extra priority lanes are PS5 special sauce.
He didnt say a 'little bit' like 'a little' but likely >5.5gbs is required.
So NVME1.4 standards are set and shown above, Phison is one of the biggest controller makers. It is all there, laid out nicely like Series X. No smokes, no bluffs.
Im not stretching anything, just going by what he said. 7gbs needed is a given at 98% possiblity... like PS5 boost clocks which i pray is so.
You need to attend Mark lesson again! 👨‍🏫
Here you go!

As for vita sticks, it is still sold in multiples of microsd prices.
Like i say, if MS does the same over what i can buy from the streets. I become a Vita fanboy!
 
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Lady Bernkastel

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You realize that Spiderman was optimized for the PS5? None of the games shown for Xbox was optimized. It was just regular quality of life functions just by being played on the machine. Only way to judge is to see how long it takes to go from XSX games.
Not to mention State of Decay 2 has load times from 40 seconds to around a minute, way more than Spiderman.
 

Lady Bernkastel

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Likewise, Mr. "SSD is not WOW!"
The thread is about Xbox Velocity architecture only. My sources are official Xbox blog, official AMD blog post and and an Eurogamer interview. It turning into console war jargon is not my fault, unlike you where it always starts with that(most of the time based on some rumor).
 
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The thread is about Xbox Velocity architecture only. My sources are official Xbox blog, official AMD blog post and and an Eurogamer interview. It turning into console war jargon is not my fault, unlike you where it always starts with that(most of the time based on some rumor).
Sure, Mr. "I'm gonna downplay the PS5 SSD despite actual devs praising it to the moon and back."
Whats even more overblown is the SSD speed comparisons.
 

Lady Bernkastel

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Sure, Mr. "I'm gonna downplay the PS5 SSD despite actual devs praising it to the moon and back."
By actual devs you mean some Sony 1st party/2nd party devs and Jason Schreier (who claimed Scarlet is behind schedule) claiming to have talked to devs.
Ac actual dev who worked for Valve and Space X claimed this regarding XSX SSD's data compression
 
Jan 11, 2019
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By actual devs you mean some Sony 1st party/2nd party devs and Jason Schreier (who claimed Scarlet is behind schedule) claiming to have talked to devs.
Ac actual dev who worked for Valve and Space X claimed this regarding XSX SSD's data compression
Wow, an "aCtUaL" developer, NOT XBOX THEMSELVES, but some random nobody uncovered the secret sauce that XBOX didn't reveal yet for some weird reason.

;)
 

Lady Bernkastel

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Wow, an "aCtUaL" developer, NOT XBOX THEMSELVES, but some random nobody uncovered the secret sauce that XBOX didn't reveal yet for some weird reason.

;)
They did though. Its in the OP.
Update : Since everyone his having doubts, I will quote the original Digital Foundry article
"Our second component is a high-speed hardware decompression block that can deliver over 6GB/s," reveals Andrew Goossen. "This is a dedicated silicon block that offloads decompression work from the CPU and is matched to the SSD so that decompression is never a bottleneck. The decompression hardware supports Zlib for general data and a new compression [system] called BCPack that is tailored to the GPU textures that typically comprise the vast majority of a game's package size."
 

Goliathy

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This guy still thinks it will cost 399 USD with that custom SSD. GAF has been wrong about PS5 on almost everything for a while.
Wishful thinking. But we will see. I think it will be $449 for PS5 and $499 for series X.
series S will be $249 but comes a year later or so.
 
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Lady Bernkastel

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Wishful thinking. But we will see. I think it will be $449 for PS5 and $499 for series X.
series S will be $249 but comes a year later or so.
The way Microsoft is promoting Series X as the sole next gen machine, sometimes makes me think Lockhart is part of the Xbox One family(Xbox One X2 or Z or something) rather than Series X family. Its like the Xbox 360 e that was launched with Xbox One. So, they will sell both Series X and Lockhart(as the Xbox One X successor). Even the Hellblade II trailer straight up says 'Xbox Series X'. It would look like Xbox One S/X but has the Series X ports, so that you can use the expansion card too.
 
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You realize that Spiderman was optimized for the PS5? None of the games shown for Xbox was optimized. It was just regular quality of life functions just by being played on the machine. Only way to judge is to see how long it takes to go from XSX games.
We dont know what game was optimised or not all weve seen is spiderman loading in 0.8 seconds amd games loading in 5-10 seconds on series x
 
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We dont know what game was optimised or not all weve seen is spiderman loading in 0.8 seconds amd games loading in 5-10 seconds on series x
we do know. Why because they used 3rd party games and used old Xbox games. It is even stated Gears 5 wasn't optimized. So like I said we are seeing the benefits without optimization.
 
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Panajev2001a

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By actual devs you mean some Sony 1st party/2nd party devs and Jason Schreier (who claimed Scarlet is behind schedule) claiming to have talked to devs.
Ac actual dev who worked for Valve and Space X claimed this regarding XSX SSD's data compression
We do know much about it, but that makes it potentially better than PS5’s kraken compression (still not making up for over 2x of bandwidth advantage, back to arguing bandwidth does not matter...).
 
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Zero707

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Yup. A 5.5 GB/s NVMe 1 TB SSD will cost around 300 USD.
Upto 4.8 GB/s, costs 240 USD.
Many people will have to contend with the included 825 GB SSD.

The SSD alone may drive PS5 price to around 600 USD.
XSX SSD will cost $100 to $150
 
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cyber69

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It is an open world online game. Also, Undead Labs were only 30 people when they made this game.
Spider-Man is a massive open world game with a sprawling city landscape. State of Decay 2 Is an open world game with a maximum of 4 players per session. Take a wild guess on which game is much more demanding.
 

Lady Bernkastel

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Spider-Man is a massive open world game with a sprawling city landscape. State of Decay 2 Is an open world game with a maximum of 4 players per session. Take a wild guess on which game is much more demanding.
Looks like you ignored my comment about only 30 people making that game. Its not big budget like what you are comparing it to, they were originally making it with CryEngine until Crytek screwed them and they had to switch to Unreal. Also, weird that Sony didnt use Days Gone for load times comparison and went for the easiest one.
 

cyber69

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Looks like you ignored my comment about only 30 people making that game. Its not big budget like what you are comparing it to, they were originally making it with CryEngine until Crytek screwed them and they had to switch to Unreal. Also, weird that Sony didnt use Days Gone for load times comparison and went for the easiest one.
Bigger budget or more people doesn't equate to quality. Case in point Crackdown 3.
 
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it_wasn't_me

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By actual devs you mean some Sony 1st party/2nd party devs and Jason Schreier (who claimed Scarlet is behind schedule) claiming to have talked to devs.
Ac actual dev who worked for Valve and Space X claimed this regarding XSX SSD's data compression

Nope, majority are 3rd party devs. Do some research instead of spewing crap. So, cut the crap

So, uh, about that "Sony Dev React" thing that is still going after 26 pages. From what I've gathered on this thread :

Kurt Margeneau (Naughty Dog) ---> Sony dev
Anthony Newman (Naughty Dog) --> Sony dev
James Cooper (no studio currently) --> Not Sony dev anymore
Andrew Maximov (Promethean AI) --> Not Sony dev anymore
Randy Pitchford (Gearbox) --> Not Sony dev
Matt Philips (Big Evil Corp) --> Not Sony dev
Mike Evans (ex AMD) --> Not Sony dev
Robert Boyd (Zeboyd Games) --> Not Sony dev
Andrea Pessino (Ready at Dawn) --> Not Sony dev
Dale North (composer) --> Not Sony dev
Olivier JT (VR audio) --> Not Sony dev
Jason Nuyens (Breakfall) --> Not Sony dev
Also, DICE developer is missing
 
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