-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Xenoblade X Localization Changes for Character Models
- Thread starter Jarmel
- Start date
I don't think this is going to go anywhere, man. I see the breast slider as a way to change a prominent external visual aspect of the character, an aspect for which there is no male equivalent. You see the breast slider as a statement, and think it's a problem that this statement only applies to one gender.
I'd be on the same page with you if there were a camel toe slider or something, but I just don't think it's a problem that female characters have one more slider than male characters. Male characters don't have an exclusive trait with that kind of visibility, except for facial hair, for which options are already in the game.
Maybe a body hair slider would be more appropriate, but it still wouldn't be visible with most outfits.
chaobreaker
Member
The character creator wasn't that in-depth in the first place. The fact that a breast slider was one of the 3 only sliders in the entire character creator speaks much about the developers priorities. Someone brought this up but you can make male CaC look old but there's no real option for the female CaC. I guess making thin young women that can wear crotch-window panties was more important than making a detailed character creator.
Won't be missed.
Won't be missed.
I can always agree with more options.
I can't agree that fewer options is better though.
IrishNinja
Member
SCReuter
Member
This. It was pervy fan service. Good riddance.
chaobreaker
Member
I think so as well, but I don't blame Nintendo for not wanting to leave the game as is. Everything about the character creator system and the kind of outfits you can wear just scream that this game is unevenly exploitive in its depiction of women, even one's as young as 13.
Hours Left
Member
Facial/body hair and breasts do no correlate at all IMO. If developers are going to single out one aspect of the female body to accentuate, and that is the bust line, then the most equivalent option would be a bulge slider. (I know you disagree, but this is my view.)
If we had a much more detailed amount of options for body customization which included breasts but still excluded a man's bulge, I could reasonably believe that it was done with the primary intent of individuality over sexualization, but that's not the case here. The bust slider is for sex appeal. There is no option included for the male characters, which in this case (if we're boiling it down to one defining trait) would be their bulge. This is where the problem lies in my view. If I had the choice, I wouldn't of removed the bust slider. It was overreacting on Nintendo's part IMO. But that still doesn't excuse the fact that a similiar feature wasn't offered for the male characters. If you don't think this is an issue, than I'd recommend trying to look at how sexualization of characters differs between the genders because it's a huge problem in the medium. One that requires not only a more varied and thoughtful selection of offerings for female characters, (a fact that cannot be stressed enough) but also more balanced treatment for male characters as well, which includes an increase in sexualization.
I do see discrepancies in the way genders are portrayed across the medium, I just feel hesitant to point to specific instances and say "you are the problem". One thing we can certainly agree on is that more options would be nice. Nintendo will never put in a dong slider, but I certainly wouldn't be the one to complain if they did.
I'm still waiting for that character action game starring a grizzled old woman.
Almond
Member
I can understand adjusting Lin's clothes (though some of them look kind of silly the way they edited it), but removing the bust slider doesn't make any sense. The character creator is already limited enough and they feel they have remove the boob size? I think there should have been more options for both male and female to begin with, but removing it entirely is unnecessary.
If they were that worried about it, why not take out the extremes at both ends and let you adjust them somewhere in the middle? It would have been better than them cutting it all together.
I'd like to know their reason why, when all the same revealing outfits are still supposedly left in.
If they were that worried about it, why not take out the extremes at both ends and let you adjust them somewhere in the middle? It would have been better than them cutting it all together.
I'd like to know their reason why, when all the same revealing outfits are still supposedly left in.
Hours Left
Member
I'm not expecting Nintendo to be leading the way in dick technology, but if they want to have a bust slider, then it's fair game to call them out for not sexualizing the male characters in a similar fashion. (Though they've actually made strides in other games like the upcoming Fire Emblem Fates, while still having it's own issues, does a better job of offering equal sexualization between genders.)
More options are always better. It wouldn't be fair for me to take issue with fanservice of female characters while canvasing hard for more male sexualization, but it's all about context and balance. Just as not every game needs to have its female characters sexualized as the defining aspect of their design (something I think we all agree on here, at least I'd hope so), but also that male characters would benefit from seeing a lot more sexualization. One of the reasons people take such issue with the extreme amount of fan service displayed by female characters (and with good reason), is that male characters are very rarely treated the same way. Most people enjoy seeing sexually attractive characters every now and then, so it's undoubtedly better when everyone can participate, not just straight men.
I've only just seen this but I'm disappointed. Whenever I play as a female character I make her small chested, as I come from a family where the women are small chested. There's absolutely no reason to take it out.
Some of the comparisons between breast sliders and the absence of a 'dick slider' are patently ridiculous.
1. Breasts are easily visible and part of the 'identifying silhouette' of a female character; penises are not
2. Breasts are secondary sex characteristics; the penis is a part of the male genitalia. Therefore the vulva is quite literally the apt comparison to the penis, and the 'camel toe' is the apt comparison for 'the bulge'. A muscular chest and arms is the closest comparison to breast size in men, as a muscular chest is seen as attractive, but it still has nowhere near the same effect on a person's overall 'look' as breast size does in women.
3. A slider to make the penis bigger has blatantly obvious sexual connotations (ie. an erection) in a way that breasts don't. Breasts are not always sexualised. Penises really are. A 12 year old girl might expect to be able to set her character's bust size, parents would find it completely unacceptable to see her setting a 'dick size' if she played as a male. It's way too sexualised. This stuff is bloody obvious, man.
Agree with all of that, but particularly the bolded.
Some of the comparisons between breast sliders and the absence of a 'dick slider' are patently ridiculous.
1. Breasts are easily visible and part of the 'identifying silhouette' of a female character; penises are not
2. Breasts are secondary sex characteristics; the penis is a part of the male genitalia. Therefore the vulva is quite literally the apt comparison to the penis, and the 'camel toe' is the apt comparison for 'the bulge'. A muscular chest and arms is the closest comparison to breast size in men, as a muscular chest is seen as attractive, but it still has nowhere near the same effect on a person's overall 'look' as breast size does in women.
3. A slider to make the penis bigger has blatantly obvious sexual connotations (ie. an erection) in a way that breasts don't. Breasts are not always sexualised. Penises really are. A 12 year old girl might expect to be able to set her character's bust size, parents would find it completely unacceptable to see her setting a 'dick size' if she played as a male. It's way too sexualised. This stuff is bloody obvious, man.
Agree with all of that, but particularly the bolded.
I'm not sure I follow your logic.
Involves customising a thing that people have on their bodies in different shapes and sizes > automatically pervy fanservice?
What if someone wants to make their avatar look more like themselves? Males will be able to do so with no issues.
kitchenmotors
Banned
Responses in here are gross.
Glad I don't care about any creepy things being removed and only care about the ACTUAL game.
Glad I don't care about any creepy things being removed and only care about the ACTUAL game.
meltingparappa
Member
I would kill for a "slender" slider.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
If they collaboratively worked on this as well then that's cool. I'd be glad they didn't just go ahead and changed whatever they wanted (even with somewhat minor changes like these.) The rest of the post isn't directed at you specifically, Ridley.
However, for me the issue with censorship has never really been the role of the author in it. I'm not trying to downplay its importance, but I rarely even consider authorial intent when evaluating a product so I don't see why I should be concerned about an opinion I didn't pay a lot of attention to being diluted. I guess "too many cooks spoil the broth" becomes an issue when too many people meddle with a product, but I don't think that critical mass is reached during localisation.
My actual problem with censorship is the condescending nature of a company making a decision about what content I -- or other people like me since I'm not a special unique snowflake -- can reasonably handle or what is appropriate for me. Part of this is probably down to the simple fact of me being German. So for the majority of my gaming life I've had to deal with absolutely ridiculous things like publishers/ratings boards/whoever assuming soldiers dying would be "too much" so they have to be changed to robots, people not getting shot by guns but magicked into submission, and my feeble mind being in constant danger of slipping into fascism if I was exposed to Nazi symbols so those better go. Going so far as to cutting to a black screen saying "Evil things are happening" when violence in Saints Row 2 was shown.
As you can see, these mostly revolve around violence. And luckily this stuff doesn't really get done any more today, which I'm very glad about. The bad thing that I'm seeing now is that sexuality -- which has actually been fine mostly; it's Europe -- is getting censored instead. So this somewhat believable thought that depictions of brutal murders might be upsetting to some has now been replaced with absolutely asinine changes like this removal of bust size customisation. Which is incredibly misguided given how sex-positive we mostly are. A lot of these concerns seem blown out of proportion when you live in a culture that has had legal prostitution since forever, internationally famous red light districts, a long history of nudism and an age of consent of 14.
I know this is a long post for how small these changes are and I don't mean to overemphasise them since I'm still excited for the game and have had it preordered for months. It's just something I wanted to get off my chest for a while and give some perspective as to why someone might be incredibly annoyed with censorship like this. Especially when it comes to sex and banalities like cup size.
Side note: I'm not the only German fed up with this and, for example, we have a sizable Steam group that covers censorship on Steam and sometimes even tries to get/help publishers to get an uncensored version of their game on Steam.
tl;dr: I don't need a company to sanitise my thoughts and decide what's appropriate for me. Even insignificant changes like these are part of a larger problem bugging me for more than a decade now.
Yes, those types of characters you often see derided on forums as too feminine. Dick sliders or whatnot wouldn't make much sense as a requirement even if you were to "level the field."
Hours Left
Member
There is no one size fits all answer anywhere really, the only viable solution is variety, and developers having the guts to try. Gaming will only benefit from developers striving to be inclusive and respectful.
For anyone interested in a more in-depth discussion of male sexuality in gaming, we've had a really good dialogue going in this topic...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1137134
whether or not it was for fanservice is pointless.
It was an option that was taken away because some deviants POTENTIALLY abusing it. So now those without "ill intentions" or hell well endowed females who wished to recreate themselves (or the opposite) can't do so.
It is a poor soultion to fixing an issue that wasn't a big deal in the first damn place. Don't want to have underage looking characters in skimpy outfits? Cool..I get that..then perhaps either do whatever magic they are doing to those costumes with Lyn or when chosing the smaller bodies perhaps cap or cut the breast slider? Anything is better than taking away a whole option for everyone.
its not a big deal or anything but it is dumb and yet again poorly implemented
seems to be a theme recently.
It was an option that was taken away because some deviants POTENTIALLY abusing it. So now those without "ill intentions" or hell well endowed females who wished to recreate themselves (or the opposite) can't do so.
It is a poor soultion to fixing an issue that wasn't a big deal in the first damn place. Don't want to have underage looking characters in skimpy outfits? Cool..I get that..then perhaps either do whatever magic they are doing to those costumes with Lyn or when chosing the smaller bodies perhaps cap or cut the breast slider? Anything is better than taking away a whole option for everyone.
its not a big deal or anything but it is dumb and yet again poorly implemented
seems to be a theme recently.
Well, yeah, I don't necessarily disagree with inclusiveness. "What can I change to attract more XYZ for my product" is a question that's been asked since time immemorial. But everyone will run into the issues of non-unlimited resources, whether it's worth the investment to attract XYZ, whether there are other innovative ways that would attract XYZ, etc.
I'm of the opinion that what Nintendo did here is boneheaded and helps them very little. Even if they didn't want to leave it in, they could have taken this as an opportunity to do something different -- instead of removing the bust slider, make it defined based on console ID -- that would have generated quite a bit of good vibes in this region without that much more work and mitigated the backlash. They took the easy way out without furthering much of anything.
Hours Left
Member
Like that Rust game, right? That would certainty of been interesting.
kitchenmotors
Banned
It's creepy that you want control over how big a female video game characters boobs should be.
I'm gay and I don't demand that a guys bulge should be bigger or have the ability to do so. I don't get the fascination with having to do that to a female character. It comes off totally creepy.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
Girls have different breasts sizes, you know?
seriously man, there's nothing creepy about it.
What A Time To Be Alive
Member
And this is why I imported the game :3
kitchenmotors
Banned
And guys have different penis sizes, so we should have the option to do that as well?
I'd find that just as creepy. It's a video game and it's really not needed, even in character customization.
Dice//
Banned
Relevant to bulge discussion:
lol this is NEVER an option. I love that this topic has all of GAFs attention and all the fuss, buzz, and uproar is on this instead of the gameplay topics.
It's so weird the way women breasts are often emphasized in these topics, but rarely any other specific feature (besides the face) on either gender's bodies.
kitchenmotors
Banned
Relevant to bulge discussion:
lol this is NEVER an option. I love that this topic has all of GAFs attention and all the fuss, buzz, and uproar is on this instead of the gameplay topics.
It's so weird the way women breasts are often emphasized in these topics, but rarely any other specific feature (besides the face) on either gender's bodies.
Thank you gurl.
Sorry, but trying to justify it is so fucking silly. And it's always the same crowd too.
Hours Left
Member
It's as I said before, female sexualization is so ingrained in pop culture that many see it as the norm.Relevant to bulge discussion:
lol this is NEVER an option. I love that this topic has all of GAFs attention and all the fuss, buzz, and uproar is on this instead of the gameplay topics.
It's so weird the way women breasts are often emphasized in these topics, but rarely any other specific feature (besides the face) on either gender's bodies.
If games want to have customization that emphasizes the sexualization of the characters, (*which is obviously not needed in every game) then the least they can do is strive to make it equal between the genders.
Relevant to bulge discussion:
lol this is NEVER an option. I love that this topic has all of GAFs attention and all the fuss, buzz, and uproar is on this instead of the gameplay topics.
It's so weird the way women breasts are often emphasized in these topics, but rarely any other specific feature (besides the face) on either gender's bodies.
I made three decent points as to why the bulge discussion is ridiculous on this very page and you've all ignored them.
Mechanized
Member
Generally men don't walk around in skin tight pants showing their dick. Breasts however are always visible and prominent. Stop with the false equivalency.
Huh? Skinny jeans are super popular now. What are you talking about?
Hours Left
Member
When the primary function of a bust slider is to promote fan service, it is equivalent. As I said before, anyone thinking the ability to change the bust size in this game was included to promote body diversity, then you're being naive. (And breasts are certainly not always prominent.)
To quote what I said earlier...
Astral Dog
Member
I think Nintendo are actually one of the few game companies content and pushing quite a bit of male fanservice along with the girls.
even if the main idea of the slider was for fanservice (I think that is a bit unfair but whatever), nixing it all together is still an awful idea because in the end it punishes those who would use it for simply making the character look like them, their girlfriend, mom, whatever.
It is a witch hunt that effects those caught in the crosshairs and those are probably the bigger group, no?
It also feels weird that the mere act of having bigger breasts is considered to be only for sexual purposes....Its not that serious but it really begins to sound like any women who's breast don't fit some standard (big or small) should feel bad about it because some perverts out there.
like I said, not a big deal but taking away something like this should never be praised. Lyn's outfit edit made sense for culture reasons. this is the overly PC thing people often make strawmen about in these type of threads.
This change feels like it is trying to appeal to all when it ends up more or less locking out others. You are going after the perverts and deviants "ruining our gaemz" and taking away from the well meaning here.
It is a witch hunt that effects those caught in the crosshairs and those are probably the bigger group, no?
It also feels weird that the mere act of having bigger breasts is considered to be only for sexual purposes....Its not that serious but it really begins to sound like any women who's breast don't fit some standard (big or small) should feel bad about it because some perverts out there.
like I said, not a big deal but taking away something like this should never be praised. Lyn's outfit edit made sense for culture reasons. this is the overly PC thing people often make strawmen about in these type of threads.
This change feels like it is trying to appeal to all when it ends up more or less locking out others. You are going after the perverts and deviants "ruining our gaemz" and taking away from the well meaning here.
Astral Dog
Member
Would say toó as much as we complain males have the better end of the stick when it comes to actuall portrayal and treatment in general, not just sexualization,compared to girls of course that opens another can of worms
Height, weight and boobs. That's all you can customize body-wise, right? That's extremely simplistic and I'm not sure the boob slider elevated it to an entire different level of complexity. Regardless, I'm pretty sure I can't make a male that completely looks like me with such limited options, and that's pretty much a non-issue. I respect more the position of being against pointless changes, but I can't take the "now I can't make realistic characters!" argument seriously. IMHO, of course.
That's creepy!
Suzushiiro
Banned
Pretty sure facial hair is an option in XCX's character creator, actually. So yeah, the JP version pretty much was even and the NA version has one more customization option for male characters than it does for female characters, I guess?
They also removed the option to change to a smaller cup size than what it is now. Like it was said earlier, they could have reduced the range instead of removing the customization altogether.
Hours Left
Member
They've definitely made improvements in this regard, certainly. Fire Emblem, as I mentioned, is chock full of fanservice, but they have actually made the effort to make it even between genders. (They've even included same sex romance options, though while implemented in a very clunky fashion, they are at least trying to move forward.)
Definitely. I don't think anyone could (or should) dispute this. The treatment of female characters has an extremely long way to go before it's even remotely balanced. The amount of sexualization they are subject to is ridiculous. We desperately need a much more vaired and thoughtful selection of female characters. This is one of the biggest issues facing the medium. (If not the biggest.)Would say toó males have the better end of the stick when it comes to actuall portrayal and treatment in general, not just sexualization,compared to girls of course that opens another can of worms
Should every game have sexualized content? Of course not, but I don't think all forms of sexualization are unwarranted. There's nothing wrong with wanting to see sexually provocative and appealing characters in gaming, but in order for this to be fair and acceptable, and for the genre to progress to be a more inclusive past time for all players, the same treatment needs to be applied to men and women. If you're going to have options in a game that serve to primarily sexualize a female character, then they need to make the effort to include those same options for the male characters too, or expect to be called out for it. (And rightfully so.)
That certainly would of been a sensible solution.
It's already a T rated game, so no. It's just another ??? decision form NoA, like censoring a M rated game.
Dice//
Banned
Overt and blatant over-sexuality can be hurtful and happens often in gaming. It can harm both sexes to some extent while we're painting broad strokes.
Plus I think it's clear that Nintendo has really taken to that somewhat 'family friendly' branding (lately and...always, really), and the NA in general is being a lot more cautious on ridiculous sexualization that Japan (a country somewhat much more traditional with respect to its treatment of women and otaku pandering) gives less a shit.
Well, we are talking about the body here. If you want a female equivalent to facial hair, I'm sure female-only make-up, hairstyles and stuff can possibly even that out. Even if a lot of make-up is unisex in XBX (like facepaint).
But still, it would be fine IF there were more body options. There could be options for the butt, waist, bust etc. For the male that same boob slider could change muscle mass in the chest. It will all lead to a different silhouette.
But seriously, you can only change height and boobs... While the male only has height. It's just awkward and has 'fanservice' written all over it.
I always liked the body definitions one, there are many great ways to adjust the human body. Males can have larger upper chests, better butts, etc, etc. But nope! Height and boobs are your XBX options. It IS a little awkward.
That's probably my biggest gripe with this: The CORE GAME is unaffected, but by all means let's get upset for this.
Yes!
The removal of this does not touch gameplay, story, just a cosmetic appearance. If a removal of content was context-relevant and historically relevant (such as, perhaps, taking out the "n-word" from To Kill a Mockingbird), then yeah, get upset.
But instead we treat some of these game designers as GRAND ARTISTS with an EXTRAORDINARY VISION that should be UNJUDGED/UNTAMPERED and ALL CENSORSHIP/EDITS are simply inherently wrong and a sign the SJWs are ruining everything --- please. Just come out and admit you like digital titties because you're horny for them.
A dick slider is TOTALLY compensation for how often women are sexualized between tits, ass, poses, gestures, and their general playful (ie; flirty) attitudes for cameras.
What's funny though, is I doubt we really WANT to see a dick slider, but between that and what we've observed in "how to create a sexualized male" topic (you can't really, or if you can it's not easy and rarely opted for), it's going to be hard to be 1:1 and a ton of damage has already been done between games and....general attitudes on gender sexualization, really. So you're right, the breast and dick sliders don't match up --- but what leverage is there to make men look/feel the same way as we do? Boob sliders without a male equivalent is just another drop in the bucket to how women are made as ridiculous in games.
** I did actually like the option from several Gaffers to make the "biggest size" less "balloon like" though. It's true, big boobs happen, but the ones in-game are just bad; and by some coincidence the gaming world includes tons of non-fat big-tittied women (and strip clubs, apparently). Further, the lack of option to give the males more muscular tone (go from six to twelve pack?!) (and a lot of games have some version of this) would be great too...just something. Like other have mentioned as WELL is that, besides the face, the XBX customization isn't terribly robust (hah), so the actual boob slider stuck out.
This is random but I'm reminded about this old pizza hut commercial, just change all the pizza words to boobs...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhUH5dKg3Sg
Then that last part, gotdammit treating us like we're kids :/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhUH5dKg3Sg
Then that last part, gotdammit treating us like we're kids :/