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Yoshinori Ono comments on Street Fighter 5 buttslap and related changes
- Thread starter Moraizen
- Start date
Steve Youngblood
Member
For me, this stuff can only really be evaluated on a case by case basis. If Spielberg was against the change, then I think it's unfortunate that he felt compelled to make it to appease people. If Ono and his team are rolling their eyes and annoyed that they have to make this change, then I would argue that it too is unfortunate.
The main thing I reject is that any and every change -- particularly right now with all the attention on perceived censorship and social justice issues -- is inherently bad because outside influence destroys the creative process. People get feedback all the time. I think it's important to take that feedback and try to do some soul searching to sort out which critiques are valid and which aren't. If you contemplate what people are saying and come away from it thinking "no, we like what we've already made," then by all means stick to your guns. But I think it's often discounted that sometimes you look at the feedback and think "changing this won't hurt anything," or even possibly "you know, I think changing this makes the product better."
Obviously, we don't really know what Ono's thoughts are on the matter. And without knowing that, it's hard for me to really ascertain whether or not this is harmful to the process. Maybe year's down the road there might be some post mortem thoughts where he complains that the publisher or certain other groups really pressured him into making this change that he didn't want to make, but for now he sounds okay with it. If that's the case, I don't really see it as "bad."
Right. He was, the creator. I'm saying that, upon reflection, it sounds like he wishes he had thought about those things during the creation of the movie itself.
What I'm getting at is that his regret was not about the act of making the movie more inclusive, it was about trying to change the movie after it was already out. People had already seen it, and that's what E.T. was. But if he had the opportunity to go back and change this during the initial creative process, do you still think he would have thought it to be a mistake?
The reason I think this is important is because SF5 is still in development. You can't say you're concerned about the creative process and then balk at what factors come into play during that very thing. Ono is literally outlining their intent and people don't agree, then in the same breath say they're concerned about preserving intent. I don't get it. It's important that the creators are the ones making this call, and that very much seems to be the case. They read feedback and allow gamers to see this process unfold for these kind of reasons, not in spite of them.
I could understand being more concerned if like a ratings board or something was forcing their hand, but that isn't the case. It's literally just them examining their content and deciding how they ultimately want it to look, and why.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
But within the same statement he said he was being overly sensitive to those criticisms. He states multiple reasons for regret, one of them giving in to offence, not just the film being released as it was.
Edit: I also don't really see the relevance of his personal feelings. The change was asinine, that's why people dislike it, not because they were empathetic thinking Spielberg was somehow being bullied into submission by parent groups. Just look at how George Lucas was treated when he thought he was making good changes to his franchise which the fans hated regardless of his personal feelings.
So I can't handle fanservice because I don't want it. Well, I can't handle QTEs or cinematic games either, I'm such a professionally offended person
Lol at people not grasping the concept of not liking fanservice.That's some serious selective memory right there. It's no worse than any of its predecessors.
Joshi wrestling wearing G-strings? Post pics/gifs....I may have missed it?
See above.
NoctisVsStar
Member
We live in a very PC world where developers now more than ever are worried about their bottom line.. Ca-Ching $$! So they have to worry about the feeble minded folks who might bring in some revenue sadly enough. Personally, that slap was taunt there's nothing sexual about it.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Show me a joshi wrestler that has her but exposed like that.
Most female wrestlers keep it tight. No one has their ass exposed like that. I watch NXT, LUCHA, and Japanese wrestling. You blowin hot air.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Cindi Mayweather
Member
This is the quote.
How is this?
"Not too far off from what joshi wear"?
Most joshi wear shorts. Their butts are not exposed. There's certainly skin, but not the extent that is in R Mika's design.
You just come off as being knowingly pedantic and obtuse for your comment. Much like the rest of your posts.
I watch a lot of women's wrestling.
Example
After example
Show that the claim that "it's not too off the mark" in regards to actual women wrestlers is hilariously ignorant and worthy of mockery.
You can argue that Mika is just a more sexed up take on joshi wrestlers, but joshi wrestlers show enough skin already and are pretty jazzed up as it is. Though some do go for more traditional wrestling leggings.
R Mika is a joke. Even as a wrestling fan.
Don't compare Mika to real life joshi. It's an insult.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Are you daft?
Hell yes it is. Unless all the breast augmentation doesn't fall under "cheesecake" for you.
The jiggle physics were so subtle in Street Fighter 4 that I didn't even know the game had them until 7 years of playing the game on a consistent basis. It blew my mind.
I can't say the same about Street Fighter V and Chun-Li McMoonTits.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Calm down.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
In what world is showing off butt cheeks a mere "taking liberties"? I'm pretty calm.
I can't stand how Chun Li's boobs bounce on the select screen. What the fuck kind of breasts does that girl have?
I can't stand how Chun Li's boobs bounce on the select screen. What the fuck kind of breasts does that girl have?
exmachina64
Banned
How can they say they're more sensitive to these issues if, correct me if I'm wrong, everything but the butt slap in this clip is still present?
The entire thing should be removed, not merely a zoom-in so we don't actually see the slap.
The entire thing should be removed, not merely a zoom-in so we don't actually see the slap.
The jiggle physics in SFV are subtle too when they're working properly. Chun Li moon tits is a very commonly known bug. Capcom itself has stated this. It only happens on the player 2 side of the character select screen, and it happens to all physics based objects, not just boobs. You can see how it's intended on the player 1 side and in-game.
Max Knight
Member
I am glad that Capcom is at least cognizant of this aspect of their games. I actually have been a bit uneasy about some of the visual design choices of Street Fighter V, particularly the sexualized female costumes. I do feel like it's a little more risque than its predecessors. That is not to say that previous SF games don't have their share of questionable content as well, but just that it seems like more of a focal point in SFV for some reason.
That said, this does smell a little like PR backpedaling. I say that because, if you're really worried about people feeling uncomfortable with certain aspects of your game, toning it down wouldn't even be necessary; the offending content would just be removed or changed completely. I think a good rule of thumb is: if you have to modify something to reduce how degrading it is, then it probably shouldn't be included to begin with.
That said, this does smell a little like PR backpedaling. I say that because, if you're really worried about people feeling uncomfortable with certain aspects of your game, toning it down wouldn't even be necessary; the offending content would just be removed or changed completely. I think a good rule of thumb is: if you have to modify something to reduce how degrading it is, then it probably shouldn't be included to begin with.
Even still, they do noticeably exist. And even if I think the way they move when they work correctly is perfectly fine, the fact that it's noticeable at all is an indicator that V is more fanservicey than IV.
NoctisVsStar
Member
It's always been anime ;P
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
In reality. They are butt cheeks.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I think this is one of the larger issues. I don't see many of the people in this thread in the ACTUAL FGC or SFV threads. And many of us in those threads who love SFV are very, very hesitant and downright critical of anime. From an outside observer, the two are the same, but a lot of the decisions in SFV reek of going to DOA levels of fan service, which many SF fans don't like.
An ass slap or revealing outfits is not the barrier to overcome here though, their market share isnt shrinking any by tailoring a game to "not offend". Its a fighting game without blood, its already PG enough and in the past iteration the only low clothing character that wasnt a male (double standards) was Cammyand that didnt suddenly oppen the game to more people since it was still a niche game.
Instead of political correctness why not overhaul training mode to pick up casuals or enhance story mode with beautiful cutscenes and deep history instead of picking at animations and frames to remove what might offend someone, which unfortunatly devolves into a downward spiral where the end is blandness (not implying that SFV is anywhere near that right now but their vision will lead there if carried through)
freeofgreed
Member
I thought they said that was a glitch with the 2P having wonky physics?
Given that the game isn't released yet, you could say that it wasn't included to begin with. But that might start another discussion about when a videogame is done; which in the age of patches may mean never.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Butt cheeks are never simply butt cheeks. If you are completely unwilling to discuss this in a rational matter, why on Earth are you so invested in trying to convince people that exposed butt cheeks are somehow not sexualized and in the case of R. Mika, pretty fucking weird?
Cindi Mayweather
Member
You know as much about this games final training mode as much as anyone else. Given that they're doing a story mode that acts as a basic tutorial, surely they're taking your advice?
Surely, SF as a franchise, has little reason, given the growing market of the fgc, to be seen or labeled as a fanservice game in the same light of DOA.
But that's simply being PC?
First I've heard of it.
Those are different decisions.
All that costs them to remove the buttslap was to pan a camera upward. It has nothing to do with decisions relating to tutorial and cutscenes and story mode.
People in this thread are still demanding a kind of all or nothing approach that doesn't line up with how videogames are developed. "if they removed this one thing, why not remove ALL THE THINGS?" "if they are worried about accessibility in relation to how a character is presented, why they aren't worried about accessibility in relation to tutorials?"
I don't know. Videogames are hard. Lots of moving parts.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
That's just a Player 2 glitch they're planning on fixing. Of course, her breasts are bigger and move around more outside of that, but it's natural. She's older here compared to IV, so she's gonna pick up weight.
Thankfully she's picking up weight in all the right places and in the right way, she deserves that alt.
I suggest anything recent from Io Shirai, Kana and Hikaru Shida.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Unfortunately, joshi is kinda in a bad state right now. You rarely hear anything about it. If you're into women's wrestling feds, you can always start with Shimmer.
Gosh, I wonder which if the girls at Shimmer look like R. Mika?
Gosh.
Gosh, I wonder which if the girls at Shimmer look like R. Mika?
Gosh.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
I'm not saying they aren't sexualised. I'm saying them exposing butt cheeks when joshi wrestlers normally don't is clearly a liberty they've taken during the design, which doesn't eradicate the design's clear relation to joshi wrestlers.
And frankly, I am not willing to discuss this further with you in a "rational matter" as what you consider to be "rational" seems to be personal attacks.
freeofgreed
Member
http://kotaku.com/street-fighters-ridiculous-new-breasts-are-a-glitch-ca-1711977157
Same thing happens with other characters, like Necali's hair going crazy on 2P side.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
That explains everything.
I was thinking I had been betrayed by the SF Gods and that they were turning my franchise into 2d fighter DOA.
Thank you so much for this link.
It's also been fixed in the latest build.
NoctisVsStar
Member
SF fans critical of anime? First time i hear about this or there's a segment of the SF fanbase is in denial.
Edit: The Boob glitch was addressed months ago it was always a glitch on the 2P side.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
The latest build looks so fantastic. I didn't notice!
Go into any SF thread or FGC thread on this forum and mention "anime fighter". See what responses you get from some of the SF gang.
SF fans like to try and act like the game isn't just a Shounen manga. Then they'd have to admit they're anime-curious.
It would be funny if you weren't serious.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
n00bsauce87
Member
I think if the sole intent is to bring as many people to the game as possible, I respect the move. The point of SFV isn't the fanservice like Senran Kagura or DOAX (even DOA?). I like this response better than the one for DOAX not selling a western version.
It's not like the costumes are gonna get censored. I can live w/o a buttslap. But I can't live without R. Mika wrestling outfit
It's not like the costumes are gonna get censored. I can live w/o a buttslap. But I can't live without R. Mika wrestling outfit
partyphone
Banned
the problem isn't anime in general. it's fanservice creep and the relatively small number of anime fans who are extremely vocal about it and cry censorship any time someone makes the sensible decision to cut it out of a game.
fatal frame, xenoblade, sf5, doax3, etc. all "censored" in the west. most of us think they were improved and we sit and laugh at the people who spend hundreds of dollars to import a shitty game so they can get the lewd.
n00bsauce87
Member
This is the quote.
How is this?
"Not too far off from what joshi wear"?
Most joshi wear shorts. Their butts are not exposed. There's certainly skin, but not the extent that is in R Mika's design.
You just come off as being knowingly pedantic and obtuse for your comment. Much like the rest of your posts.
I watch a lot of women's wrestling.
Example
After example
Show that the claim that "it's not too off the mark" in regards to actual women wrestlers is hilariously ignorant and worthy of mockery.
You can argue that Mika is just a more sexed up take on joshi wrestlers, but joshi wrestlers show enough skin already and are pretty jazzed up as it is. Though some do go for more traditional wrestling leggings.
R Mika is a joke. Even as a wrestling fan.
Don't compare Mika to real life joshi. It's an insult.
So Mods, can we get her/his tag updated to "Joshi Expert"?
Pejo
Member
I guess Ono's answer is what it is. It was obviously a tongue-in-cheek thing to begin with, not a "WOW LOOK AT THAT BUTT" even though some people obviously went there. If it helps people not be uncomfortable though, and it's their decision, then ok.
Like a lot of other people in the thread have said though, it's not like removing that animation suddenly makes this a game you're going to proudly play with your grandparents in the room or something. But it's Capcom's game, and they can do what they want.
Like a lot of other people in the thread have said though, it's not like removing that animation suddenly makes this a game you're going to proudly play with your grandparents in the room or something. But it's Capcom's game, and they can do what they want.