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[Godaisempai]

y'know what? whatever, there's more important things happening in the world.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

the problem isn't anime in general. it's fanservice creep and the relatively small number of anime fans who are extremely vocal about it and cry censorship any time someone makes the sensible decision to cut it out of a game.

fatal frame, xenoblade, sf5, doax3, etc. all "censored" in the west. most of us think they were improved and we sit and laugh at the people who spend hundreds of dollars to import a shitty game so they can get the lewd.

Definitely agree, I've been playing SF since the genesis days and the arcade at the corner laundry service. It's not like i wont buy the game over such petty nonsense hell i wouldn't even import for such a thing. I'm mostly aggravated because they didn't change the animation instead of cropping it. But i do find it hilarious that some find the slap so offensive.

y'know what? whatever, there's more important things happening in the world.

if so why are you here? if you wanted to have a driveby snarky comment..here's a cookie.

 

[partyphone]

Definitely agree, I've been playing SF since the genesis days and the arcade at the corner laundry service. It's not like i wont buy the game over such petty nonsense hell i wouldn't even import for such a thing. I'm mostly aggravated because they didn't change the animation instead of cropping it. But i do find it hilarious that some find the slap so offensive.

I don't think the problem is people will find it offensive. it's that they'll see it and write the game off as shitty and immature and never play it.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I'd be a lot more happy if they covered her ass and cut the animation but I may have to settle with alt costumes, assuming they're not awful.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

I don't think the problem is people will find it offensive. it's that they'll see it and write the game off as shitty and immature and never play it.

hmm valid point..but playing devil's advocate what if they were never interested in the first place?

Edit: if you can garner some sales even if they never play the game ever again they did their job i guess.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Kind of odd that they removed the slap but let the skimpy outfits in, including Mika's. At this point SFV seems like one huge bikini waxing advertisement.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I don't think the problem is people will find it offensive. it's that they'll see it and write the game off as shitty and immature and never play it.

This is important considering we are trying to grow as a genre and community. A lot of us fighting game fans want the genre on par with mobas in the e-sports domain. Why would any of us want to make other people feel like they can't play SF - the star child of the genre - because it has weird fan service in it?

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Kind of odd that they removed the slap but let the skimpy outfits in, including Mika's. At this point SFV seems like one huge bikini waxing advertisement.

wait until the summer alts come out.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Kind of odd that they removed the slap but let the skimpy outfits in, including Mika's. At this point SFV seems like one huge bikini waxing advertisement.

The other costumes aren't too bad. Chun Li's is sexy, but not in a grotesque way. There's nothing wrong with sexy and for the most part, aside from Mika's they're pretty okay. Chun's costume is pretty much a simple modification to her dress alt in IV. I plan on wearing her dress in V to EVO next year.

 

[jon bones]

Kind of odd that they removed the slap but let the skimpy outfits in, including Mika's. At this point SFV seems like one huge bikini waxing advertisement.

Mika desperately needs an alt. Her default is ugly as sin.

Chun's alt is real good, though so I have hope.

 

[Kinyou]

Kind of odd that they removed the slap but let the skimpy outfits in, including Mika's. At this point SFV seems like one huge bikini waxing advertisement.

Or that they removed the buttslap but left in the the butt smash

That this was done for some weird ESRB guideline to get the T rating makes more sense to me.

 

[Roran Stehl]

This is important considering we are trying to grow as a genre and community. A lot of us fighting game fans want the genre on par with mobas in the e-sports domain. Why would any of us want to make other people feel like they can't play SF - the star child of the genre - because it has weird fan service in it?

Where and more importantly who should draw the line between acceptable and problematic content?

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Where and more importantly who should draw the line between acceptable and problematic content?

Capcom is the one who is doing these edits. Koei Tecmo decided to not bring over DOAX3. Nintendo of America are the ones who decided to change the model of a stripper 12 year old in Xenoblade X. Don't act like there's a PC council of Evil where we meet weekly to funnel demands to game developers or ELSE. *shakes fist*

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Go into any SF thread or FGC thread on this forum and mention "anime fighter". See what responses you get from some of the SF gang.

Well they're ignorant, then. Anime and manga have always had an influence on the serie's design and style.

What they are doing nowadays when they get upset, is conflating the otaku-side loli fanservice of anime (which unfortunately is prevalent in a lot of modern anime) with anime as a whole, as in..the history of the medium, which is just flat-out false.

They're also equating anime with perversion which ties a bit into the false narrative I just outlined above, even if a lot of the current anime on the market kind of delve into the skimpy area (and even so, there are just as many that don't).

It would be funny if you weren't serious.

Serious enough to be my waifu.

This is important considering we are trying to grow as a genre and community. A lot of us fighting game fans want the genre on par with mobas in the e-sports domain. Why would any of us want to make other people feel like they can't play SF - the star child of the genre - because it has weird fan service in it?

Well, there's the question of if that can ever happen. Consider if SF were a sim racer; in the U.S sim racers are faring quite poorly in sales, as seen by the Forza games and, less so, GT6. Sometimes it just comes down to the genre. America loves guns and blood. Martial arts less so. That's why you see the disparity reflected in sales. Personally that upsets me but it is what it is.

There are other ways the community can grow its base. The FCC is very clique-heavy, so for an outsider to try and come in and navigate the different sub-groups is probably more intense than being a freshman in high school. So that's one area where things could be improved. Another is in just teaching the fundamentals better; given people play fighting games to compete competitively against other people, if they're newer to the genre they should have a means provided to them by the game directly to understand the most important fundamentals to make them more competitive. It sounds like SFV is attempting to address that, but they have a long way to go to measure up to VF4 and Skullgirls in that department.

The primary problem in thinking removing the buttslap will broaden the audience, is in thinking that's the only caveat or the most significant factor in preventing people from joining the community. I doubt anyone's $60 was hinging on if a one-second booty slap animation was in the final game or not. So honestly, to get these people you and I and others think are worth getting to expand the community and get the genre on a more visible platform, it's a change that has to be done in sync with other more important changes, like the two I alluded to earlier on. Otherwise those same holdouts are not going to fork over their cash.

It's a mistake thinking the buttslap was a problem in its own vacuum, or that eliminating it will swing the momentum of holdouts. Get to the core reason why they are intimidated by fighting games and the FCC, and put solutions to those in tandem with editing things like the buttslap, and you might get their money. But the removal of the buttslap on its own doesn't do shit for those people.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

Where and more importantly who should draw the line between acceptable and problematic content?

Subtle, you managed to avoid saying "outrage" or "censorship" directly!

 

[Vlaphor]

...relatively small number of anime fans who are extremely vocal about it...

...fatal frame, xenoblade, sf5, doax3, etc. all "censored" in the west. most of us think they were improved...

relatively small...most of us think...

The vast majority of people I've seen in this thread, other various threads, and several fighting game communities would seem to disagree with you.

 

[Roran Stehl]

Capcom is the one who is doing these edits. Don't act like there's a PC council of Evil where we meet weekly to funnel demands to game developers or ELSE. *shakes fist*

Oh I agree. It is a genuine question as I sometimes struggle about this balance "artistic freedom"/"societal impact".
Your reaction may suggest that you feel that only a binary reaction exists regarding this issue. I can't blame you for thinking so (as recent history and its excess may have proven you right), but there are many ways to look at this question.

 

[roknin]

Still an incredibly stupid thing to get upset about, let alone cry censorship for. It's still in development. The choice is theirs and theirs alone. Any changes are fair game.

wish people so enthusastic of declaring censorship would be as enthusiastic to actually play the game.

.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Let me show you my PC Council of Evil card. To get into the meeting room you simply put your hand over the camera. The darkness signifies censorship and censorship signifies your games losing their artistic expression to show boobs. The war on game boobs is raging. Raging like the gentle storm in an otaku's pants.

 

[depths20XX]

That's great and all but I don't know what person is out there who's like, "Hmm, I was cool with everything in this game until the butt slap. That's just over the line." I mean there's crotch shots all over the place.

 

[Ragnorok64]

...Go into any SF thread or FGC thread on this forum and mention "anime fighter". See what responses you get from some of the SF gang.

What foolishness is this? You can't just use the term " anime Fighter" interchangeably with just "anime." "Anime Fighter" while a stupid term, has come to refer to a specific type of playstyle of game. Games with Guilty Gear-esque mechanics, like airdashing, air blocking, longer combos, and more frenetic gameplay. So of course you're going to find people in Street Fighter threads that are critical of anime fighters since they're at the opposite end of the gameplay spectrum. Same way you have some Marvel players that hardly touch Street Fighter and vice versa.

 

[Roran Stehl]

Subtle, you managed to avoid saying "outrage" or "censorship" directly!

Because I actually believe that it is not about outrage or censorship. I'm an artistic absolutist but I can't say that it is right or wrong. Different people, different subjectivity. I'm also relatively preserved by most artistic contents as "target demographic", I'm unlikely to find them problematic as they were designed by people who likely have a lot in common with me.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

What foolishness is this? You can't just use the term " anime Fighter" interchangeably with just "anime." "Anime Fighter" while a stupid term, has come to refer to a specific type of playstyle of game. Games with Guilty Gear-esque mechanics, like airdashing, air blocking, longer combos, and more frenetic gameplay. So of course you're going to find people in Street Fighter threads that are critical of anime fighters since they're at the opposite end of the gameplay spectrum. Same way you have some Marvel players that hardly touch Street Fighter and vice versa.

It can actually be a combination of both sometimes. It is how they play on top of the content as well. BlazBlue has a witch that had sex with a cat that birthed a cat genius scientist.

 

[MrHoot]

This is a deep and fundamental misunderstanding of what the creative process actually is.

I agree. I'm sorry, i used the wrong term. But what i meant is that I don't feel that this choice wasn't motivated essentially by design (after all, they made it, and it's still here, just off camera). More like an afterthought mostly motivated by appealing to an outside influence, rather than sticking to the original (mostly because of the way it was so hastily done, while the rest is still there). But it is indeed still part of the creative process

 

[Ragnorok64]

I think this is one of the larger issues. I don't see many of the people in this thread in the ACTUAL FGC or SFV threads. And many of us in those threads who love SFV are very, very hesitant and downright critical of anime. From an outside observer, the two are the same, but a lot of the decisions in SFV reek of going to DOA levels of fan service, which many SF fans don't like.

Go into any SF thread or FGC thread on this forum and mention "anime fighter". See what responses you get from some of the SF gang.

It can actually be a combination of both sometimes. It is how they play on top of the content as well. BlazBlue has a witch that had sex with a cat that birthed a cat genius scientist.

So you imply that Street Fighter players are "very hesitant and downright critical of anime." But you didn't actually mean "anime" but "anime fighters" and only the definition that "can sometimes" apply the way you want it.

 

[Gr1mLock]

Eh. Don't really care.

 

[lastrealgameralive]

#teambuttslap

 

[exfatal]

All this really does is make me want to pick up the PC version over the ps4 version. All this editing is nonsense in my opinion should have just changed the Ult completely if capcom was so afraid to offend the people who weren't even going to play his game anyways.

 

[Sblargh]

Let me show you my PC Council of Evil card. To get into the meeting room you simply put your hand over the camera. The darkness signifies censorship and censorship signifies your games losing their artistic expression to show boobs. The war on game boobs is raging. Raging like the gentle storm in an otaku's pants.

Are they still serving donuts there or they censored them already? I told them that if no donut was censored, I would split off and create my own faction.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Are they still serving donuts there or they censored them already? I told them that if no donut was censored, I would split off and create my own faction.

Donuts can be sexually explicit due to the hole and can be used in disgusting ways. Thankfully we no longer serve them. For now we are giving out bananas as a replacement, but some are interpreting and using them inappropriately in private settings. Back to square one...

So you imply that Street Fighter players are "very hesitant and downright critical of anime." But you didn't actually mean "anime" but "anime fighters" and only the definition that "can sometimes" apply the way you want it.

Many definitely are. Don't act like it isn't a thing. It's definitely a thing. Not among all players of course, but it's definitely a prevalent attitude.

 

[Rentahamster]

That this was done for some weird ESRB guideline to get the T rating makes more sense to me.

Why a buttslap or proper muscle buster would make those prudes over at the ESRB categorize this as a 'Mature' game is also baffling.

 

[Ragnorok64]

Many definitely are. Don't act like it isn't a thing. It's definitely a thing. Not among all players of course, but it's definitely a prevalent attitude.

You've certainly shown it definitely possibly can sometimes be a prevalent thing among some players, maybe.

 

[The Lone Dragon]

Show that the claim that "it's not too off the mark" in regards to actual women wrestlers is hilariously ignorant and worthy of mockery.

You can argue that Mika is just a more sexed up take on joshi wrestlers, but joshi wrestlers show enough skin already and are pretty jazzed up as it is. Though some do go for more traditional wrestling leggings.

R Mika is a joke. Even as a wrestling fan.

Don't compare Mika to real life joshi. It's an insult.

Umm, I could easily post pictures of Angelina Love and Velvet Sky literally shaking their thonged rear ends into the camera on national (actually international) television as evidence that YES, some female wrestlers do wear outfits as outrageous as Mika.

I could show videos of ODB slapping her butt and fondling her own breasts, again, on national (and international) television.

Do, I need to remind you of the "attitude era"?

And, as far as joshi goes, there's a wide variety of crazy stuff that has taken place in that genre of wrestling.

Anyways, the point is that YES, Mika is an amalgamation of various female wrestling tropes of the past, both joshi and worldwide...many of which were sexual, over the top, gaudy, outrageous. I can't see how someone who identifies as a wrestling fan can't see this.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Umm, I could easily post pictures of Angelina Love and Velvet Sky literally shaking their thonged rear ends into the camera on national (actually international) television as evidence that YES, some female wrestlers do wear outfits as outrageous as Mika.

I could show videos of ODB slapping her butt and fondling her own breasts, again, on national (and international) television.

Do, I need to remind you of the "attitude era"?

And, as far as joshi goes, there's a wide variety of crazy stuff that has taken place in that genre of wrestling.

Anyways, the point is that YES, Mika is an amalgamation of various female wrestling tropes of the past, both joshi and worldwide...many of which were sexual, over the top, gaudy, outrageous. I can't see how someone who identifies as a wrestling fan can't see this.

Those wrestlers I see as general exceptions. There's always exceptions. Velvet Sky is not a good comparison. The poster I quoted said that he doesn't see too much of a difference between joshi wrestlers and Mika. I disagree.

Furthermore, those wrestlers you listed aren't even joshi wrestlers. When we talk joshi, we talk about Japanese women's wrestling. You just listed women's wrestlers from TNA, which generally in the past treated women wrestlers as eye candy. Women wrestlers as pure eye candy is mostly a western wrestling thing, not a Japanese joshi wrestler thing. Given the premise that Mika is a joshi wrestler distilled, it'd be quite incorrect to label most joshi wrestlers as eye candy. Especially since most have their own federations. Some joshi wrestlers like Kana definitely toed the line with a bit of fan service, but nothing to the extent of Mika.

The Attitude Era isn't a good comparison either given it was mostly WWE. Again, has nothing to do with joshi. Is another western women's wrestling example.

There are absurdities in women's wrestling, just like with all wrestling, but I find it insulting to the craft that saying something like Mika isn't "too far off" from a regular joshi wrestler, which is false. Also, just because it exists (in some form) in women's wrestling, does not mean that a women's wrestling fan necessarily has to embrace it.

Calling Mika an amalgamation of past women's wrestling tropes is a pretty hilarious way of saying,"I like that she has her ass cheeks out."

And Velvet Sky sucks.

 

[exmachina64]

So Mods, can we get her/his tag updated to "Joshi Expert"?

"Floyd Mayweather's joshi wrestling cousin."

 

[Ragnorok64]

Those wrestlers I see as general exceptions. There's always exceptions. Velvet Sky is not a good comparison. The poster I quoted said that he doesn't see too much of a difference between joshi wrestlers and Mika. I disagree.

Furthermore, those wrestlers you listed aren't even joshi wrestlers. When we talk joshi, we talk about Japanese women's wrestling. You just listed women's wrestlers from TNA.

The Attitude Era isn't a good comparison either given it was mostly WWE. Again, has nothing to do with joshi.

There's are absurdities in women's wrestling, just like with all wrestling, but I find it insulting to the craft that saying something like Mika isn't "too far off" from a regular joshi wrestler, which is false. Also, just because it exists (in some form) in women's wrestling, does not mean that a women's wrestling fan necessarily has to embrace it.

Calling Mika an amalgamation of past women's wrestling tropes is a pretty hilarious way of saying,"I like that she has her ass cheeks out."

The post you're quoting directly addresses the distinction between the examples he posted and joshi with respects R. Mika and he clearly drawing from a range of wrestling influences.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

"Floyd Mayweather's joshi wrestling cousin."

Is this implying that I am illiterate? I'm not sure.

 

[Videoneon]

I actually think this change is internally consistent. They say they're not going to alter everything, and they didn't, there's plenty of other fanservice stuff. Everyone who assumed that Capcom was going to (or has to) take a categorical, absolute approach to this was flawed.

I think the slap's removal wasn't terribly meaningful one way or another. It's inconsequential so its removal doesn't really merit the defensive nature of its reaction to it being gone. That it continues to be a sore spot is more telling than anything.

 

[RM8]

I mean, next to Nadeshiko, Mika looks nothing like a wrestler. I think you can at least admit that she's designed around fanservice first, and wrestling second.

 

[Kinyou]

I think what's actually more bothersome than the removed buttslap is the removed forced split. It made the super move look much more painful to the opponent. Now they just get smashed to the ground. If they removed it because they didn't want any pantyshots of the female fighters they could at least replace it with a new move.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

The post you're quoting directly addresses the distinction between the examples he posted and joshi with respects R. Mika and he clearly drawing from a range of wrestling influences.

A "range of wrestling influences" does not mean joshi. Oh please. Because he can make a line of comparison doesn't mean it's the norm for women's wrestling nor does it validate the existence of Mika's assless tights. Your rebuttal gives off the idea that someone like Velvet Sky goes without her own criticisms in real life. Yet expect something that - let's play along here shall we? - takes direct inspiration, as you say, from real life examples to get away from criticism?

She doesn't even look like a pro wrestler. If not for the ring and her moves, would you REALLY think she looks like a wrestler? Be honest. Even women wrestlers who exist as eye candy, they still look like wrestlers.

You have no argument to stand upon.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Your last point raises an excellent question. Why isn't it creative in gaming? Because it's normative? But can't you be creative by altering your take on normativity? Or is this more that this is perceived as sociologically problematic (i.e. Less related to the creative process but to its potential effects)?

If something, (or part of something) only reestablishes the status quo and is quite similar to a lot of other things in the industry it's not very creative imho, this applies to character design with women characters, (especially in fighting games), wearing hyper sexualized outfits. This stuff also has a domino effect on the creative process, like cinematography during specials focusing usually focused on making them appear "sexy," which is also incredibly common.

I'm not really sure why it's a false equivalence. As he said, both are done to make the content more inclusive. And at least whoever thought of that animation in the first place might be sad about seeing it go.

But we don't know if Ono likes the change or not, it's not the same as Spielberg with that caveat alone. This isn't a very difficult change to make either so i'm not sure the camera animator is super broken up about it, it's literally the same animation just with a more static angle, (which makes it appear slightly faster than with a dynamic camera).

 

[Coda]

A "range of wrestling influences" does not mean joshi. Oh please. Because he can make a line of comparison doesn't mean it's the norm for women's wrestling nor does it validate the existence of Mika's assless tights. Your rebuttal gives off the idea that someone like Velvet Sky goes without her own criticisms in real life. Yet expect something that - let's play along here shall we? - takes direct inspiration, as you say, from real life examples to get away from criticism?

She doesn't even look like a pro wrestler. If not for the ring and her moves, would you REALLY think she looks like a wrestler? Be honest. Even women wrestlers who exist as eye candy, they still look like wrestlers.

You have no argument to stand upon.

Except she does look very similar to the way women Japanese wrestlers look.

She embodies the wacky kind of wrestler look from Japan...

And Nadeshiko basically has more of a proper look.

They compliment each other quite well honestly.

 

[Jumplion]

I just want to remind you people, this was a change in a camera angle. Not even an animation change, the slap's still there.

It literally could have been "the animation needs to play out faster", and the guy has to come up with some excuse to appease the people who got up in arms over something that literally shouldn't have been an issue in the first place.

Shit changes all the time in game development. Nobody would have noticed if the camera angles changed for Ryu or Zangeif, and I wouldn't be surprised if they have.

 

[Ragnorok64]

A "range of wrestling influences" does not mean joshi. Oh please. Because he can make a line of comparison doesn't mean it's the norm for women's wrestling nor does it validate the existence of Mika's assless tights. Your rebuttal gives off the idea that someone like Velvet Sky goes without her own criticisms in real life. Yet expect something that - let's play along here shall we? - takes direct inspiration, as you say, from real life examples to get away from criticism?

She doesn't even look like a pro wrestler. If not for the ring and her moves, would you REALLY think she looks like a wrestler? Be honest. Even women wrestlers who exist as eye candy, they still look like wrestlers.

You have no argument to stand upon.

Listen. I'm not arguing specific wrestlers. I'm simply pointing out that you responded to a post that acknowledged that the examples he listed were joshi and that the character pulled inspiration from a bunch of different sources by going "but those aren't joshi wrestlers!"

And yes, Mika absolutely looks like a wrestler. She has a mask, a flamboyant costume and is built like she could bench press anyone in the cast. I'd be surprised if anyone didn't recognize her as a wrestler.

 

[nded]

I'm more concerned that they removed the split at the end. I just want more Kinnikuman in my life.

 

[Roran Stehl]

If something, (or part of something) only reestablishes the status quo and is quite similar to a lot of other things in the industry it's not very creative imho, this applies to character design with women characters, (especially in fighting games), wearing hyper sexualized outfits. This stuff also has a domino effect on the creative process, like cinematography during specials focusing usually focused on making them appear "sexy," which is also incredibly common.


But we don't know if Ono likes the change or not, it's not the same as Spielberg with that caveat alone. This isn't a very difficult change to make either so i'm not sure the camera animator is super broken up about it, it's literally the same animation just with a more static angle, (which makes it appear slightly faster than with a dynamic camera).

So in your opinion true creativity goes against the "flow". Valid vision, very systemic. I'm personally more interested in one author's vision, but this is my bias. As mentioned earlier, I'm also unlikely to be personally negatively affected by most decisions as "target demographic". I likely share a lot of systemic commonality with the creators, so my easier acceptance. I'm interested in pushing boundaries, but likely as long as they push in the old direction.

 

[MHWilliams]

The primary problem in thinking removing the buttslap will broaden the audience, is in thinking that's the only caveat or the most significant factor in preventing people from joining the community. I doubt anyone's $60 was hinging on if a one-second booty slap animation was in the final game or not. So honestly, to get these people you and I and others think are worth getting to expand the community and get the genre on a more visible platform, it's a change that has to be done in sync with other more important changes, like the two I alluded to earlier on. Otherwise those same holdouts are not going to fork over their cash.

Then it's a good thing that's the general thrust of the game's mechanics as well, huh?

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/int...ighter-v-peter-rosas-and-matt-dahlgren/.90689

Todd: One thing we've frequently heard about Street Fighter V is that it's simpler all around. Why did you decide to go with that compared to what you had in Street Fighter IV?

Dahlgren: Well, we want to strike a balance with a gameplay style that's still inviting to newcomers yet can still be taken to that complex and deep level that our competitive players are looking for. The Variable system is really our ticket to do just that. The Variable System has two elements to it that are very easy to execute. The V-Trigger uses the entirety of your V-Gauge. It allows you to essentially power up your character or have something that really unleashes their true potential, and it can be used to turn the tide of battle. The second element would be the V-Skill. You just press Medium Punch and Medium Kick. It's a move that adds an extra layer of utility to your character, like a parry or a different move option. So even if you don't know how to do commands this time around, you have two powerful tactics right at your disposal just by executing two buttons.

Todd: You've also made it so normal moves don't change depending on the distance between fighters. What feedback have you had about that? Do people not like it? Honestly, that feature always bugged me in previous games.

Dahlgren: People are digging the game. We've had almost purely positive feedback this time around, which is very, very refreshing. The reason we did that is because we wanted to make sure that players were confident with their button-presses. Every button in this game has a very specific usage and a very specific purpose. A lot of people would get stuck on what their range was and didn't know what move would come out, and now you can have the utmost confidence in know what move is going to come out.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/street-fighter-5-interview-yoshinori-ono-on-dlc-pl/1100-6432352/

So we wanted to reset that, we have got aspects of the game that are being tuned to allow people who are not hardcore fighting game players to get into the game. But we’re also including depth through the V-System, which is going to be the kind of thing that hardcore players can get to grips with and get better at using over a period of years. We’re really trying to aim for both the hardcore and casual crowds.

They've been rather clear on this from the beginning.

http://www.gamesradar.com/yoshinori-ono-says-street-fighter-5-pc-ps4/

“All this means that, with Street Fighter 5, we have a fantastic opportunity to create something with a larger scope, a game that encompasses all that Street Fighter has become in the last few years, but which also expands on that to become something it has never been before as well. So now we want to create something that nobody is expecting. It’s going to be a title that caters to fans, of course, but one that also invites completely new players onto the scene. Street Fighter 4 was about reviving a passion. Street Fighter 5 is about growing that passion.”

 

[Coda]

I'm more concerned that they removed the split at the end. I just want more Kinnikuman in my life.

Yeah I don't get why they edited that? It doesn't bother me either way I just don't see what's offensive about it.

 

[The Lone Dragon]

Those wrestlers I see as general exceptions. There's always exceptions. Velvet Sky is not a good comparison. The poster I quoted said that he doesn't see too much of a difference between joshi wrestlers and Mika. I disagree.

I was replying to this:

Show that the claim that "it's not too off the mark" in regards to actual women wrestlers is hilariously ignorant and worthy of mockery.

This is inaccurate. "Actual women wresters" have indeed worn risque attire to the ring and outside of it.

Furthermore, those wrestlers you listed aren't even joshi wrestlers. When we talk joshi, we talk about Japanese women's wrestling. You just listed women's wrestlers from TNA, which generally in the past treated women wrestlers as eye candy.

I know what "joshi" refers to thanks.

And, actually TNA for years has been complimented on how their female wrestlers (thongs and all) are among the most respectfully utilized. That's like one of the few things that people actually compliment TNA on, ironically. TNA has put female matches on multiple occasions in the main event slot, treating them as more than a commercial break.

Hell, they just recently put two women in the World Title Championship Tournament along side the men...and, the matches were great.

The Attitude Era isn't a good comparison either given it was mostly WWE. Again, has nothing to do with joshi. Is another western women's wrestling example.

Mika has a Stone Cold Stunner. But, please tell me more about how WWE and western wrestling has nothing to do with R. Mika's design.

There's are absurdities in women's wrestling, just like with all wrestling, but I find it insulting to the craft that saying something like Mika isn't "too far off" from a regular joshi wrestler, which is false. Also, just because it exists (in some form) in women's wrestling, does not mean that a women's wrestling fan necessarily has to embrace it.

Within the typical levels of exaggeration that the Street FIghter series is known for, Mika's outfit really isn't as absurd as you're trying to make it sound.

I feel like you're trying to make it sound like joshi and female wrestling in general don't embrace sex appeal, and that Capcom just added that element in with no basis. This just isn't true at all.
Shall I link you to official photo shoots of joshi wrestlers dressed in bikinis and sexy outfits? Even male wrestlers ride the sex appeal wave (Roman Reigns, Dolph, Randy Orton, I'm talking to you). Capcom merely incorporated this into Mika's default design.

Whether you like it or not, however, is up to you, of course.

Calling Mika an amalgamation of past women's wrestling tropes is a pretty hilarious way of saying,"I like that she has her ass cheeks out."

She is, though. Just not the tropes that you personally like, apparently.

There is nothing in her design that I cannot recognize in some other popular female wrestler.

Mika is like taking Plum Mariko as a base, adding some attitude era Trish Stratus or current era Velvet Sky...and maybe sprinkling in some Ultimate Warrior / Hogan promo skills.