-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
YS updates Shenmue 3 backers on EGS controversy
- Thread starter Kusanagi2086
- Start date
Of course that's true. But your reasoning is absurd. When you stumble to an interesting Kickstarter there are three options:
A- You don't back it
B- You back it and it's not bought by EGS
C- You back it and it's bought by EGS
If many people pick option A, the game isn't made, and so you won't get to "play the finished product". Option B is full success. And, with option C, there's still a big chance you'll get to play the finished product: maybe one year later when the exclusivity ends, or maybe EGS improves or resolves its issues and you lift your boycott on it.
In addition, at that specific point in time you don't get to choose between B and C. So your only chance of eventually playing the finished product someday is backing the game. And the worst case scenario in option C is equal to A, since you get the refund. So unless you bring sentimental reasons or something, it's a free bet.
It feels like Sesame Street levels of logic to me...
Zaffo
Member
Well that might be fine for you, doing your high level smart boy logic thing, i'm not doing interest free loans to game devs, in order to play the game i want to play a year after the release date.
If a dev is greedy enough to take the epic bribe, they can go ask epic directly for founding, instead of using their loyal fan as a stepping to gauge interest and get the founding to start development, only to leave them with no game when big boy tim sweeps in.
If a dev is greedy enough to take the epic bribe, they can go ask epic directly for founding, instead of using their loyal fan as a stepping to gauge interest and get the founding to start development, only to leave them with no game when big boy tim sweeps in.
Last edited:
And the fact that he isn't taking the big chance to finish the game, also the fact that he asked for 2 million to finish the game and was given 6 million by passionate fans but it still wasn't enough. Seriously only idiot sega can take what could've been a great thing (industry wise) and be so incompetent to make it a shitshow. It would be more amusing for me to see this whole team fall flat on it's face and have egs foot the bill than to let ys continue scamming everyone.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
They are not scamming anyone... amusing to see hard working people fail? What?!
MrCunningham
Member
Hoeg Law has a great video on Ys response...
I am really liking Hoeg's channel. Found this guy through EZ Allies.
I am really liking Hoeg's channel. Found this guy through EZ Allies.
Apparently they're all getting 6 figures for their hard work. Yes I'd find it amusing, and that the message sent to publishers would be beneficial in the long run. The devs will land on their feet. Hell maybe ys will use them in his kickstarter "spritual succesor" to shenmue.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Yap they should work for free and are all getting Ferrari’s and. It delivering game... fine keep trolling... What is the message to publishers? You still cannot even articulate what actually happened, let’s not get ahead of ourselves...
Devs landing on their feet is sounding more like a detached “disaster occurs —> sends thoughts and prayer”... none of the fans wants just another spiritual successor (there are already) they want Shenmue.
I keep trying to reason why you want to see the world burn essentially, but I keep getting back a mixed message of “they screwed people over, but I refuse to explain how It supposedly happened, what supposedly happened, and why I happen to think that” with some “for the lulz” on the side.
Last edited:
Just gonna remind you EA was voted worst company in america twice and is still one of the biggest and most profitable companies in gaming. Most "gamers" don't give a rats ass about this stuff and just want to play games. This especially, is a mountain out of a molehill.
Consider explaining to a normal person, who doesn't keep up with gaming news, why you're not buying that shenmue 3 game you've been banging on about for years. Consider how you'd explain it to them without sounding like a child throwing a tantrum, because I genuinely don't think it can be done.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
I've been waiting for 17 years for this game to come out and I backed the funding of its development on the prerequisite that it would be releasing on a certain digital storefront. The reason I backed it for this storefront is due to pro-consumer practices and policies which protect me and my digital purchases better than any other on the market and a host of features which cannot be gotten anywhere else. At the seemingly last second the publisher of the game which mind you didn't even come into the picture of this games development until mid-way through decided to uproot the location of release for the game and tie it to a different digital distribution platform.
This not only flies in the face of what I agreed to back and for what platform, it unethically forces me to accept this game on an insecure storefront which is lacking basic quality of life features and has been aligned with shady practices with no end of life contingencies to protect my purchases.
You can easily explain it without "sounding like a child throwing a tantrum".
Yep, by lying. Steam wasn't mentioned at all until 3 years after backing stopped. Steam isn't pro-consumer and had to be forced through courts to start giving refunds and are still in legal proceedings because they don't have a system to allow users to resale or trade the games they purchase.
They put it on a different platform and the only real change would be lack of achievements or cloud saves. Be realistic here
iorek21
Member
Yes, EA is one of the biggest, but that is mostly due to their sports division, which although not perfect, is not as hated as their non-sports division.
And while explaining to the common gamer about EGS may be a little bit tricky, I sincerely don’t see a person that will buy Shenmue 3 as a “common gamer”, it’s a niche public that most probably is aware of Epic’s BS.
Also, people’s hate towards EGS is becoming bigger than the hate towards EA, Ubi or Activision. Messing up a game or filling it with microtransactions is one thing; making beloved franchises (including games already being sold on Steam, such as Metro Exodus) exclusive to a horrible store with the justification of “breaking monopoly” is a totally different thing.
Well, in the end, I guess people will vote with their wallets, and then we’ll see what becomes of EGS...
Their non-sports title's regularly sell what other AAA devs could only ever dream of.
A handful of popular youtubers play some shenmue 3 and it's guaranteed mass sales. It's one of the most effective forms of marketing at this point, especially for niche titles.
Go back and click on an EGS thread from 2 or 3 months ago and compare it to the ones on this board now. Do the same on other sites too, and you'll see that opinions are turning in favour of EGS, not against them over time.
Realistically, once EGS grows enough, they won't have to buy exclusives, as devs will rush to them. Their smaller cut means devs/pubs can take an 18% drop in sales compared to steam and still break even. That's absolutely massive. It makes innovation and new ideas far less risky, as well as making it easier for niche series' to continue as less sales are needed to break even and start profiting.
Seriously, imagine a game needs 1mil sales to break even on steam. On EGS it would be at that point at 820k sales. The difference is insane.
It's crazy to me that over the years there's been all these "support the devs" crusades. No pre-owned sales. Don't use G2A. Don't pirate. Protest against crunch time. Everyone buy witcher 3 on GOG to support CDPR more etc, and now people have a chance to support them massively with next to no effort, but are refusing to because it means spending 5 minutes downloading and setting up a new client and lacks critical features such as reviews which can be found in under 10 seconds online.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
All that text just to say "eh it's just a launcher". What a novel argument that has totally not been refuted with facts a million times before, only for said facts to go ignored and dismissed. Come up with new arguments and try again. I don't see anyone turning around in favor of EGS, just people who supported them from the start with the same ignorant dismissive talk about those who don't wish to do the same. Gog is a good service, I buy from them. Uplay is relatively inoffensive these days, I buy from them for games that use it regardless of store anyway. Origin is in a similar situation though I don't care much about EA games, I only have a handful of games on there and definitely not those available on other better services. I have bought from Blizzard, I buy DRM-free directly from devs as well and have done so since before Steam was a thing. I use all kinds of legit retailers that in the end tie the game to whatever good or inoffensive to me service. I have bought physical with the same result, from Half-Life 2 to Overwatch. I didn't warm up to Steam until it proved itself, which it has, for me and for developers and the industry. A tiny minority of developers/publishers getting paid to go to EGS and do its PR for it when by its own nature as a curated store it's anti-indie at its core, just like Steam used to be until they changed under user and developer pressure, doesn't mean shit in the grand scheme of things and the industry at large or for indies and developers in general. Hoping to win the Fortnite lottery that will inevitably stop being a thing at some point once Epic try to turn a profit out of the endeavor isn't how to build a business or an industry, especially if that comes with the added cost of development and servers for features that Steam offers for free or not having said features at all like the gimped Dangerous Driving PC port on EGS that even lacks leaderboards or with ditching any serious effort to properly support locally preferred currencies and payment methods in emerging markets like India and China that will definitely be of great help to every developer, large and small, in the not so long run. Spewing bs about people's motives and trying to force them to support EGS just because you wish to support it with non arguments like this won't work, obviously. Just like it doesn't work for me when Tim says one thing then backpedals and does the opposite showing how haphazardly they're going about the whole thing. From opt-in sales being bad for games (but apparently offering them as freebies being amazing) to doing an enforced sale that led to a whole clusterfuck of price adjustments and store removals, from being against Microsoft's older intentions for the market to repeating them in the same manner, from bashing Steam to basically being Steam circa early 00s or worse (as Steam has improved after near 2 decades of feedback by us and by developers) with no intentions to improve given the also haphazardly put together roadmap they don't even stick to. I don't buy from the Bethesda launcher, I don't buy from the Windows Store and I don't buy from EGS because they're all about as shitty overall, in different ways each, whether in their features for developers and users or their obvious intentions and end game for the market at large. Deal with it. Or don't, you don't get to tell me what to do, lol. And none of it is about the effort of installing anything, we all did at one point, it's merely about thinking things through in an informed manner rather than staying ignorant and eating PR.
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 738976
Unconfirmed Member
"Wow thanks Epic games you saved us even though you got us into this mess to begin with!"
But it is just a launcher. Like most "gamer drama" it's a mountain made from a molehill, that would make you seem like you've got serious issues if you tried explaining it like a rational reason to disallow yourself from purchasing products you want to a normal person who doesn't keep up to date with games drama.
You're free to not use it of course. If lack of a shopping cart, cloud saves and achievements make a launcher not worth using to you then it's your prerogative after all.
It is still morally hypocritical (of the masses on most gaming sites such as this and reddit for example) to constantly hype up that people should be doing extra to support devs like not buying pre-owned or from sites like G2A etc, only to then avoid EGS because spending money on your business is apparently morally reprehensible. Not saying that applies to you personally, but the views do contradict eachother, showing a large amount of hypocrisy on various sites.
To each his own after all. I'm just confused about the levels of hate more than anything. I get that EGS is far from perfect, and has some obvious flaws, but pretty much all of the flaws people bring up fall into the category of "minor inconvenience" yet you'd think the EGS servers were powered by disabled orphans being forced to push their wheelchairs on hamster wheels for electricity with how people go on about it. I feel like there might genuinely be something I'm missing here, yet every thread essentially devolves into anyone who asks what the genuine, non-minor issues are being met with "lul how can you not even know this you're so dumb" instead of actual issues being brought up.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
When I said try again I didn't mean to just say the same stupid thing after being corrected with facts but okay you do you. Just don't quote me if you don't intend to honestly reply and instead just dismiss everything to repeat the same rant and mud slinging to whoever feels different.
Just re-read my last post for a full reply, you've added nothing new after all and I don't intend to repeat myself forever. That's probably why you feel perception in EGS threads is moving toward support for it, some EGS supporters seemingly never tire of repeating the same drek.
Just re-read my last post for a full reply, you've added nothing new after all and I don't intend to repeat myself forever. That's probably why you feel perception in EGS threads is moving toward support for it, some EGS supporters seemingly never tire of repeating the same drek.
Last edited:
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Or you can re-read my post before that as suggested if you're genuinely looking for points but twice over (in this exchange) you've proven you don't wish to engage in actual debate so you prove your own argument in the opposite direction. Duh. Moving on until I see something new, I guess.
Last edited:
So then why are you acting like they're gonna die on the streets because I hope this game fails?
ethomaz
Banned
This doesn't affect Kickstarter at all.
Bakers already expect to kickstarters projects changes over time... that is why you are called Backer and not Buyer.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Not liking the childish simplistic approach
. You are throwing the toys out of the proverbial pram and dodging any attempt to question why you hold this position .
Last edited:
This is correct unfortunately. People will never learn.
Not liking the childish simplistic approach
BONKERS
Member
You know there was always a 3rd option to make a middle ground for Backers Only that would've shown a LOT of tact and good will to the people who propped them up when no one else would so they could make their vertical slice to auction off for more money without any concern about how PC backers would feel. (As as shown everyone has been pretty damn dense as they must have thought we would all react with joy to the fact that they sold backers out)
DRM Free instead EGS. (With a Steam Key a year later)
DRM Free on Disc. (As promised!)
Both with a simple ultility made to shuffle patches to users. Then when the exclusive period was up this DRM free is used as the same basis for a GOG release.
Then the Steam release would happen.
All that extra money from DS, Sony and Epic and the facial animations still look like garbage? Glad to see that money being used so well.
Steam is hardly a monopoly when you can literally buy games from a dozen+ other store platforms where Valve takes a 0% cut, yet still provides infrastructure to support the game on their platform (And doesn't require asinine certification processes for release and for patch deployment) and
Not to mention the other half dozen platforms where you could release a game that doesn't require Steam. Do they have the market share of Steam? No. But they wouldn't exist if they weren't profitable and didn't make money.
DRM Free instead EGS. (With a Steam Key a year later)
DRM Free on Disc. (As promised!)
Both with a simple ultility made to shuffle patches to users. Then when the exclusive period was up this DRM free is used as the same basis for a GOG release.
Then the Steam release would happen.
All that extra money from DS, Sony and Epic and the facial animations still look like garbage? Glad to see that money being used so well.
Steam is hardly a monopoly when you can literally buy games from a dozen+ other store platforms where Valve takes a 0% cut, yet still provides infrastructure to support the game on their platform (And doesn't require asinine certification processes for release and for patch deployment) and
Not to mention the other half dozen platforms where you could release a game that doesn't require Steam. Do they have the market share of Steam? No. But they wouldn't exist if they weren't profitable and didn't make money.
Last edited: