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Zuck in court: Vetted Oculus over wknd, Actual cost $3b, Investigating Carmack claims
- Thread starter GuitarAtomik
- Start date
I wonder if any of that hidden 700mil was for the group of Valve employees who left for Oculus shortly after Valve gave Oculus their technology and shortly before the Facebook buyout was made public.
I kind of expected this case to be laughed out of court, but it's actually more interesting than I anticipated.
I kind of expected this case to be laughed out of court, but it's actually more interesting than I anticipated.
Graphics Horse
Member
I.. uh...
What?
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Lol, are you sure you know what you're saying?
TBF that 3 billion quote is a big exaggerated. Many of those costs Facebook would have paid anyway.
Doesn't matter they bought a total white elephant and I junk it's clear other tech companies who specialise in hardware (and not software I.e. Facebook) will perform far better.
They should have just started app development for VR, buying a manufacturer was a bizarre diagonal move.
Doesn't matter they bought a total white elephant and I junk it's clear other tech companies who specialise in hardware (and not software I.e. Facebook) will perform far better.
They should have just started app development for VR, buying a manufacturer was a bizarre diagonal move.
TangoAlphaLima
Member
Wow. Not sure how much "legal diligence" you can accomplish in 72 hours.
It clearly wasn't enough time to learn that the kid behind Oculus worshiped at the altar of The Donald.
GTR R35_Supra RZ
Banned
Guys..guyz he just want to be involved in the convo and dat punch line..pack it up it's wrap..shut this down.
I don't think that's a legal issue, that's a moral issue. And I don't think anyone involved in this cares about those.
roddjbrown
Member
They spent...days...on the diligence? I can't believe that? Was there some reason it had to be that quick, was someone else bidding to a deadline?
eyeball_kid
Member
Yeah, maybe something that could have been investigated before signing a deal to buy the company. Whether or not Carmack illegally used ZeniMax property, there's sure a lot of smoke in those hills.
potatohead
Member
Still better than PS VR then?
Amid this and the whole shit about Facebook advertising affecting US election, no respect for Zuckerberg and his minions.
Amid this and the whole shit about Facebook advertising affecting US election, no respect for Zuckerberg and his minions.
OdysseusVA
Banned
One has Palmer Luckey and the other does not
Eh, Facebook is all in on the techno-liberterian dystopia. Just ask Peter Thiel.
And he's gonna try and run for President on top of that.
7DollarHagane
Banned
I wonder how much money has been pissed away investing in near outright lies by VR peddlers since 2014 or so.
VR just seems scummy at this point. A lot of talk and a lot of nothing to show for it.
VR just seems scummy at this point. A lot of talk and a lot of nothing to show for it.
Azure Dream
Member
Spoken like someone who has no idea about the actual radical jumps forward VR has taken in such a short time.
7DollarHagane
Banned
Looking for an excuse to drive-by, are we? VR is advancing quite well, thank you.
Just an opinion. Try not to overreact.
It would be difficult for anyone to say that Facebook has achieved any kind of reasonable return on that 3 billion so far, especially with this lawsuit going the way it is.
That's the nature of research and development for new technologies, and something Facebook expected. The majority of GAF revolves around mainstream technologies (i.e. consoles). Immediate mainstream success isn't the name of the game here.
I mean aside from all the retail products... Oculus isn't the only player in the game.
Azure Dream
Member
"Try not to overreact."
"Everything people have said about VR is DIRTY LIES"
Maybe you shouldn't overgeneralize?
Kinda sucks that Carmack had a lifetime of work product, id Software becomes a property of Zenimax, then Carmack leaves id Software to continue his career, and now all his work product is of questionable ownership.
I get that Zenimax has a right to the software Zenimax produced for them, but if he writes code not for them, but maybe does it while at work, or on a work PC, it becomes theirs, and derivative work could also be theirs too.
I get that Zenimax has a right to the software Zenimax produced for them, but if he writes code not for them, but maybe does it while at work, or on a work PC, it becomes theirs, and derivative work could also be theirs too.
7DollarHagane
Banned
This interview with lorne lanning is what gave me that idea.
Obviously not every VR company is a fraud, but it seems to be a problem.
https://youtu.be/AcqKAKpuyjw?t=1425
It's understandable when you come out of the gate with some pretty charged language.
IF Carmack was doing side work on company time while at work, then Zenimax is in the right 100%. He knew better and should've covered his own ass if this was really the case.
Lorne makes some excellent points regarding this, but you took it to another fucking level without the actual full perspective I believe. Overgeneralized too much.
CertifiedFP
Member
Guess what buddy, that's how it works in the IT industry. Code written on company assets on company dime on company time belongs to the company.
Anyone who doesn't think it works that way is too dreamy for their own good.
Welcome to the games industry where every major player is out to fuck you as hard as they can.
I think when I worked at Sega they technically owned ideas I had when I was at home, if they related to games in any way.
Honestly, it wouldn't amaze me if this a) occurred and b) made it to trial because of a dispute about the precise terms of ass-covering. Carmack was historically given a huge amount of leeway in both licensing choices and pure research projects, wasn't he?
afternoon delight
Member
Cue the laugh track. I'm sure this is the very first instance anyone has ever brought up the accusation to Zuckerberg. Ever. In fact, someone should look into such an action! That might be a little malfeasance to the tune of millions in R&D with those fickle money counters!
That's why I began my paragraphs with "kinda sucks," and "I get that."
Given Carmack does so much important bleeding-edge research, it sucks that such important VR product that could apply to fields like medicine or communications could just held by some games company.
He most certainly was. From what I understand, he pretty much got to work on what he wanted, where and when he wanted. If there is one guy with pretty much infinite leeway in this industry, it's John fucking Carmack. That's one of the reasons this case is so interesting and everyone is paying very close attention.
Edit:
I hear ya on the overall disappointment. The whole situation does suck and should've been handled better from the get-go.
texasairhead101
Member
To quote you again this is not seemingly the first time he's been a part of this. Masters of Doom notes this is was done with with him and soon to be id founders at another company soft disk years ago in the 80s
I really do hate to see him in any negative light. He really is the old school hacker not meant to be tied down by business
plagiarize
Banned
In hindsight this deal looks like a pretty big disaster, regardless of the amount paid.
In addition to all the legal issues they've inherited, they face extremely tough competition from Valve.
From a hardware side, the Vive is at least as good as the Oculus (if not better). From a storefront side, Valve has a big advantage in Steam because of its massive userbase. From a software side, Valve also has the upper hand because their inhouse team of developers have consistently proven themselves to be world class at making games.
Oculus have also lost a lot of goodwill from developers and users, who dislike both their attempts at paying for Oculus-exclusive games, and Palmer Luckey's horrible politics.
Oculus aren't down and out yet, but increasingly it's looking like Facebook made a $3 billion blunder.
In addition to all the legal issues they've inherited, they face extremely tough competition from Valve.
From a hardware side, the Vive is at least as good as the Oculus (if not better). From a storefront side, Valve has a big advantage in Steam because of its massive userbase. From a software side, Valve also has the upper hand because their inhouse team of developers have consistently proven themselves to be world class at making games.
Oculus have also lost a lot of goodwill from developers and users, who dislike both their attempts at paying for Oculus-exclusive games, and Palmer Luckey's horrible politics.
Oculus aren't down and out yet, but increasingly it's looking like Facebook made a $3 billion blunder.
ronaldthump
Member
Spent so much money on this. 1 billion on Instagram and they fucking fucked that up royally. Their advertising feature is so shit and overpriced its way cheaper to go the route of an instagram bot.
The chances of this being a profitable outcome is very low.
The chances of this being a profitable outcome is very low.
I personally wouldn't put Bethesda and VR in the same sentence for a looong time. I have literally zero confidence in them in the VR space if their previous games are anything to go by. They just don't know how to make technically sound games, which is the bare minimum when developing for VR.
He'll fit right in.
CertifiedFP
Member
Hate to break it to you, but most of the professionals I know are more interested in AR than VR for serious uses.
Granted that's anecdotal and one of those professionals was pretty transparently shilling for Hololens, but when you consider things AR is far more practical for the professional working environment.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
That Lorne Lanning interview was excellent