PdotMichael
Banned
link to Nintendo's QoL stragy, please.
Why should Nintendo not involve games, the company's core competence, and try to fight for market share against such companies like Apple and Google?
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Miyamoto throwing shade at casual gamers
- Thread starter Nibel
- Start date
link to Nintendo's QoL stragy, please.
Why should Nintendo not involve games, the company's core competence, and try to fight for market share against such companies like Apple and Google?
OrbitalBeard
Member
PdotMichael
Banned
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130/04.html
I feel that not only can this QOL-improving platform utilize our know-how and experience about video game platforms but also we can expect it to interact with games and create a synergistic effect.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Well sure, there will be gaming elements. That picture says as much. Brain Age and Wii Fit have those already. But it's main focus isn't game-related. It's about enhancing one's lifestyle in an entertaining way.
Miyamoto is probably talking about games on Nintendo's traditional gaming hardware moving forward. QoL takes Nintendo's casual software from the DS and Wii, expands on it and gives those titles their own platform.
His comments really have no bearing on QoL and do nothing to prove it's no longer a part of Nintendo's long term strategy.
100% sure he's refering to a design process rather than creating games.
QoL is probably adding "fun" to normal activities. Think adding challenges that are fair and easy to get into. like games.
For example, QoL might encourage you to walk to the next station on a sunny day.
And participate into such "events" all day long.
it will also connect you to friends and families who are given certain challenges too and at the end of the day you may have 1st place or 2nd, etc...and be given an incentive to keep doing it again the next day.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Actually you can pet the dogs in AC and beat up/kill civilians. You can choose what weapons you'd like to use, and how you want to dispatch your target. Don't want to follow the storyline, that's fine because there's plenty of exploration and side missions to explore. Maybe do some hunting and use skins to upgrade my gear.
Your comments lead me to believe you've never spent much time playing an AC game. Your ripping the game for a lack of interaction, yet there's little interaction in Zelda's world!
Personally I enjoy Zelda games. I enjoy AC. I enjoy Bayonetta. I'm not pretending to be some sort of class of gamer that's above having a good time. It's just amusing to see fanboyism taken to such heights where people in glasses houses throw stones.
DoktorEvil
Banned
AC is the perfect example of what he's talking about. Especially AC3.
The game uses one button for running and doing parkour. You hold it an the game does everything for you in the direction you point.
If you mash the counter button, you can
avoid the majority of attacks from soldiers. The difficulty there is timing.
AC3 made these things much, much easier and streamlines what little actual game play the series actually had.
Skyward sword as a whole has more gameplay than AC3.
And Skyrim... The wanderlust runs out after a couple of hours of using fast travel and doing very similar quests with different names.
Actually you're making his words ring even more so.
I don't know the Witcher series and RDR is copying a lot of themes from Spaghetti Westerns, but does introduce a good amount of gameplay mechanics.
You must not really pay attention then.
Steve Jobs, 1984 Ad, called all PC users robots and called the Macintosh the harbinger of freedom from "The Man".
No need for name calling.
Also go back and RE-read what I wrote. Obviously they don't have 90% market share. This isn't the late 80s- early 90s.
They'll never have that number again because they operated a monopoly in the US. The market is much more complex and more competitive now compared to then.
But they can still turn a profit and remain relevant with 35-45% console market share and 40-50% handheld market share. They don't need to be "risky" like Sony and MS is, and offering 2 consoles with zero backwards compatibility and a heavy reliance on launch titles, timed exclusives, and indie digital titles, many of which you may or may not fully own(the verdict is still out on digital ownership).
And turning a profit is what business is about. Hardware an software isn't a zero sum game as you're making it out to be.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
So I have read the full interview now. Miyamoto does indeed say exactly that, but the wider context is missing....
The interview starts with the EDGE team playing Project Guard / Project Giant Robot / Star Fox and saying they're surprised by how difficult the games are.
Miyamoto says they're actually quite simple once you put the effort in to learn.
He goes into that "pathetic" quote and adds that "those people don't know how fun it is when you try to challenge yourself."
Article then goes on to say that this shift towards the core in Nintendo has occured since 2011 and cites how complicated the Wii Gamepad is compared to the Wiimote which anyone could pick up.
Miyamoto says that Unique gameplay requires unique, dedicated hardware and unique interfaces. He re-affirms Nintendo's commitment to keep making gaming hardware. He takes note of what the competition does, but only because it enables him to go in a different direction and try something new.
There's a lot more, but you get the idea.
The interview starts with the EDGE team playing Project Guard / Project Giant Robot / Star Fox and saying they're surprised by how difficult the games are.
Miyamoto says they're actually quite simple once you put the effort in to learn.
He goes into that "pathetic" quote and adds that "those people don't know how fun it is when you try to challenge yourself."
Article then goes on to say that this shift towards the core in Nintendo has occured since 2011 and cites how complicated the Wii Gamepad is compared to the Wiimote which anyone could pick up.
Miyamoto says that Unique gameplay requires unique, dedicated hardware and unique interfaces. He re-affirms Nintendo's commitment to keep making gaming hardware. He takes note of what the competition does, but only because it enables him to go in a different direction and try something new.
There's a lot more, but you get the idea.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
If the context was out of pity, pathetic is literally the correct word.
Actually the only AC I have played (and beaten) was AC3 so that might explain some things.
You mean the game many dismissed because they weren't willing to put the smallest fraction of effort into learning what the game was about and simply did the simplest action of waggle your arms about randomly and then blame the software for their horrible attempt at music. The most hilarious thing being that it was the supposed core that did this, because it didn't fit in with in their conventions of what a music based game should be.
It's good to see Miyamoto stating that he is focussing on gamey gamers rather than "passive gamers" / content tourists. While there are alot of passive gamers out there imo much of the problems the AAA industry is facing is because they cater too much to them in all the games they make.
if it was specifically designed for casuals, Nintendo would have simply gone for Wii mote 2.0 which has much simpler control inputs rather than the complex gamepad controls which doesn't appeal to them and wouldn't have brought out the pro controller which is primarily designed for third party games.
Pretty sure many designers, and not just Miyamoto, would be annoyed that most of their craft is ignored. Games have always had the problem that they have a skill barrier to experience the full package, unlike say films. Knowing many only experience a small percentage of your game and then give up must be heart breaking. Nintendo has tried different methods to tackle this such as decreased difficulty and the player guide feature but still the problem persists. Obviously they are finding it to be an uphill battle that can't be won because those they are trying to appease to are not willing to help themselves.
It may be stubborn, but if you enjoy creating a craft in such a way you have to eventually accept that a certain audience will never take to your craft. Either you stick to your guns or you completely change. Miyamoto says that this audience is already satisfied with smart phone gaming so Nintendo doesn't need to also appeal to them and thus will take the decision to stick to what they do best.
DoktorEvil
Banned
SonyToo!;127433306 said:
Passive Gamers are the people he's directly addressing, an for some reason a lot of people here take passive gamers as meaning "casual" gamers, which is a different type of gamer altogether.
Passive AAA Games are especially frustrating, because the themes are usually cool and interesting, but the gameplay is so very shallow.
That dinosaur is absolutely correct. AAA gaming is becoming shallow and with each passing gen, are going to become David Cage QTE fests.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
If casuals had bit for the WiiU, I have a feeling he'd be singing a completely different tune. They only stopped mattering when they stopped caring.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Where do they target next gen?
Core gaming market - Sony/MS/PC
Casual gaming market - mobile phones
Continue targeting the ever decreasing Nintendo fan base or audience that buys the home console just for their games?
I think what has been said is just applicable to their current systems.
Red Blaster
Member
yeah stupid noobs didn't spend time learning how to make a music game with horrible midi samples sound less like clowns farting
miyamoto is a true visionary
Spieler Eins
Member
Well, of course. Considering that Wii Fit U and Sports were gigantic flops, the New Mario cash-ins lost their appeal and no one thankfully gave a flying fuck about Sing Party, every other phoned in minigame collection like Mario's Olympics, Fake Warioware, Nintendoland and similar shit, they finally gotta admit defeat. Too bad these realizations come way too late. The WiiU will now only start receiving a good amount of proper traditional games 3 years into it's life (and after another 2 years, in which the Wii support was discontinued way too early). And it will forever stay the weakest Nintendo console, but I hope they finally get their shit together for their next gen (which will come no later than 2016 anyway).
The biggest mistake was following the popular, but false believe that only soccer moms made the original Wii huge. When that one was revealed in 2006, pretty much any kind of gamer was excited, because the concept was intriguing and right from the beginning they had a extremely strong 1st party outlook that completely shits on WiiU and even some okay 3rd party promises, compared to 1 year old, yet full priced Batman and Mass Effect ports anyway (even railshooters seem like a blessing compared to that). WiiU had a hardcore price, a shitty concept, yet it was 100% aimed at the non-gaming Wii Sports crowd, who potentially should have picked up that old Mass Effect game they've heard of. (Although, surely the pure incompetence that lead the company into not preparing for HD development until 2012 also had some effect on the lineup that consisted of nothing, but poor knockoffs of once successful casual titles and droughts).
If you are told to move your arms as if you are playing a piano and then proceed to to wave your arms as if you are doing the Macarena in an earthquake of course it's going to sound dreadful, because doing the same thing on a real piano would also result in a horrible noise.
It's not a hard concept to grasp and yet most of the big gaming outlets failed to grasp it. They also didn't understand that's it's not a rhythm game, but more of a music toy.
I like how you bring up the midi samples even though I didn't mention them. I didn't even say it was a perfect game. I'm just saying that those who perceived themselves as core gamers are also guilty of sometimes not wanting to put a bit of effort into understanding the mechanics of a game, even one as simple as Wii Music.
GifGafIsTheBestGaf
Member
wow, that was unexpected even if the translation wasnt right(supposedly)
Amazeballs
Member
Regarding that Cheesemeister said something interesting on Twitter (I don't know if it was posted but I suppose it's worth repeating even if it was):
Obviously if you call someone pathetic in English it's a negative thing to say to that person. Saying you feel sorry (or pity) for someone isn't the same anymore.
This makes sense. Thanks for posting. It should be added to the OP, IMO.
Edit: It's already been added.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
It wasn't. The Wii U was part of aiming for the core.
Just compare:
Wiimote: Two buttons and a D-pad.
Gamepad: Four buttons, D-Pad, clickable dual analog sticks, 4 trigger buttons, NFC reader, screen in the middle....
Do you really think they're aimed at the same audience?
Spirit Icana
Member
Miyamoto[B said:
Yeah, because people have lives and don't have or want to spend the time/money to master all these pathetic video games. They are the customer and it is your job to entertain them. Hardly a pathetic thing.
Is the game going to teach someone Japanese/Spanish/French/German? Get them Fit? You know, integrate with their daily lives in a meaningful way?
Maybe some people had just watched a great movie and want to experience that sense of adventure when they get home from the theater with a video game and they'll go buy whatever game and put in some time to get good at it, unless the game totally stinks.
Or maybe they just watched a wrestling match or a football game, the person isn't good at sports or has no friends or whatever, and suddenly feels the adrenaline to up his game with a fighting title and compete with others online.
Many different things could convince someone to put in a little more oomph into whatever activity they do.
This is a tough business. There's a lot of games out there and a lot of different interests.
I don't really like the whole hardcore/casual thing. Some people love all kinds of video games and play/buy a lot of them. Some just play one game really well, and maybe buy and play a couple every now and then. Casual can turn hardcore/core the next day, and a core gamer could be lapsed in a week's time.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Oh man, that's the worst AC game. If you own a Wii U check out AC4.
What if the concept behind Wii Music just isn't exciting for some people?
I was obsessed with Zelda 1 back in the NES days, I had to buy it and play it. I couldn't care less about Wii Music.
SM64 blew my mind back in the mid-90s, I had to buy it and play it. SM 3D World doesn't excite me at all.
You know, people don't have infinite free time and money, they are only going to play the kind of games they find interesting and exciting.
DoktorEvil
Banned
I agree with your sentiment.
Casual, hardcore, core are all buzzwords IMO, but the passive gamer comment he makes has a valid point with respect to games that become insta-win collectathons that have no to little complexity but are very pretty to look at.
Flachmatuch
Member
Well, in terms of business, Skinner boxes > actual games, as the popularity of superficial, no-gameplay, extrinsic-motivation, high-tech, high production value mass produced crap like Assassin's Creed or Skyrim etc etc show.
Also, just played Infamous: Second Son. I mean, what the flying fuck did I just do. Why did I waste money on that pos? I could have just replayed Crackdown or Crackdown 2 ffs for a lot more actual fun. All the big money copycat shit is so much worse than the original, despite having much bigger budgets.
Also, just played Infamous: Second Son. I mean, what the flying fuck did I just do. Why did I waste money on that pos? I could have just replayed Crackdown or Crackdown 2 ffs for a lot more actual fun. All the big money copycat shit is so much worse than the original, despite having much bigger budgets.
I don't recall saying Wii Music has universal appeal. I know it won't appeal to everyone. But what does that have to do with journalists not understanding something as basic as how to move your arms as if you are playing a piano?
I'm surprised they could even type out reviews considering the similar motions involved or perhaps they have jumbo keyboards that do require you to flail your hands about which would explain a lot of things.
DoktorEvil
Banned
Games journalism is very hard, you guys.
tassletine
Member
Sounds like you only like one particular style of gameplay. Something without tight controls, probably a little bit janky, that just allows you to fuck around and see what happens. I personally find games like Skyrim and AC2 almost broken in their mechanics, Skyrim definitely so. It may have 'more' of that style that you love but you should realise that quite a few people don't even think this sort of thing counts as gameplay at all.
It has nothing to do with journalists. It has to do with you claiming that people are "guilty" for not giving a chance to Wii Music.
Well I was referring to the gaming outlets since they were the opinions I saw.
Also this isn't just about Wii Music, it's just a very easy example to use. People act as if it's just the "casuals" who don't want to put effort into learning games, but "core" gamers can be just as guilty of it too. That's my point.
Schnozberry
Member
Pathetic is the correct word here. I'm not sure how else to describe people who give up on something the moment it becomes challenging. It is a pitiable state of mind, which is what I think Miyamoto was attempting to describe.
nephilimdj
Member
Isnt this just a issue with how old the dinosaur system that 2d mario is? Lives, far apart checkpoints, having to use player guide
Games likee Rayman Legends do so well without them that it feels natural.
Atleast sega tried to evolve it
DoktorEvil
Banned
Skyrim has more gameplay than something like AC but that's not saying much.
AC has always been a game about setting and environmental feel. Ubisoft's dedication to setting accuracy is REALLY detailed. I compared a photo of my brother in Italy to the church steeple that you climb in AC2 and side by side they look exact.
But objectively, those games are both lacking in actual gameplay that Nintendo has been offering in their game for years.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
It is a factor in that their current market share can't be used to say much. They had a year head start. Their market share has only eroded since the launch of the X1/PS4. It's fairly evident that it will continue to erode unless they have some miraculous turnaround.
- There are plenty of "deep" AAA games.
- You can't possibly predict the way the market will swing forever. Media markets tend to work like pendulums, going from oversaturation to abandonment of the common theme (say QTEs) to overstaturation of a new theme.
DoktorEvil
Banned
I never said there wasn't. I only said that current trends indicate AAA gameplay has gone down in quality.
Right now the current market reminds me of the trends that exists in TV and in film using common themes, such as adding Zombies to everything in TV/Film or Dubstep/EDM sampling being overused in music.
It'll change and I can't predict what it'll change to, but trends are what set the market precedents now.
Pro from Dover
Member
Nintendo help those who help themselves
That's the way it goes
The frightening thoughts of what's been taught
And now it shows
Arc Christelle
Member
why is everyone trying so hard to sell the "Miyamoto/Nintendo is salty angle?"
It really isn't that simple.
It really isn't that simple.
From the Nintendo Presentation at Unite 2014 :
Some interesting stats here. Nintendo can no longer be considered kiddy
Papacheeks
Banned
Well let's wait and see on the decreasing quality AAA gameplay with games like The Witcher 3, RIME, Dragon Age:Inquisition, Destiny, Bloodborne, Sunset Overdrive, Transistor among many others that your talking about.
MisterGrey3000
Member
Gay and bisexual men; it's queer male slang. We've been using it since the 1970s. It's only been appropriated very recently thanks to straight black girls.
Anyways...I feel like something was lost in translation here.
People really shouldn't be reading too heavily into this (but of course...you already have); his statements completely contradict what Nintendo as a whole has been saying since they've analyzed the WiiU's failure on the market.
Miyamoto is not gonna stop the company from gunning for casual gamers (along with kids and families, of course) in the 9th gen. It would be incredibly stupid for Nintendo to abandon one of their bread & butter audiences unless they put their top talent on a bunch of Halo/Uncharted/Assassin's Creed-killers, and regulate their kid/family-oriented stuff (Like Kirby, DK, Yoshi, etc.) to the sidelines; which I just can't see happening anytime soon.