Honestly, I was talking about budget-wise and scope. Not every game has to have million-dollar CGI or chase the eSports scene (SC2)
It's not like Grey Goo is a slouch, either!
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Homeworld Remastered |OT| All of this has happened before and will happen again
- Thread starter Portman
- Start date
Honestly, I was talking about budget-wise and scope. Not every game has to have million-dollar CGI or chase the eSports scene (SC2)
It's not like Grey Goo is a slouch, either!
Auto-Reply
Member
What you mean? (I didn't read through the last pages)
HW1 remastered is running on HW2 basis/engine, individual ships act like wings in HW2 so they don't keep formation like HW1 (notice when you ctrl box attack the ships all divide their dps/targets unlike og HW1). Combat is RNG/table based so hard counters are really HARD COUNTERS in the rock scissors paper sense. It acts more like a mod in HW2 engine, it's really a different game to OG HW1 not merely a lick of paint.
You can't dodge shots like OG HW1 HW1 remastered has been brought up to HW2 standard warts and all.
And this is unfortunate. Formations and tactics have now little to no relevance in battle, I hope at least sphere formation keeps being the life safer it was for protecting ships.
Nikodemos
Member
Seriously? That's rather disappointing to hear. Homeworld 1 was better than 2, mechanics-wise. The only thing HW2 did unarguably better was the GUI.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Fucking A these asteroids are kicking my ass. Tips?
Got it.
Got it.
Yeah ION beams don't really miss because of transverse, they're a HW2 "dice rolls". Assault frigs in og HW could not track corvettes fast enough to really hit them, now they're a hard/murder counter because it's just dice rolls. Evasive tactics is gone so fighters/strike craft don't run away when hurt. It's shallower but counters do work really well now, because combats results have essentially been preordained by rng with bonuses or negatives.
You can see it's HW2 when you watch the collectors "dock" with asteroids, they don't fly around beaming them like OG HW.
They sent me the key after confirming the purchase. Good one Gearbox. Now to wait for the delivery while playing the game
They have changed HW1 so much that now I don't know
I used to dock strike craft, wall formation ion frigates, claw formation bombers in agressive mode, put destroyers + frigates to destroy the bigger ones, bombers to destroy the smaller ones. Do not bother with asteroids on the side, you have to do a little mental path tracking and only focus on the asteroids that are for sure in collision with the mothership. But now.... I'm not sure if this works.
I really hope a mod brings normal HW1 gameplay... this kind of sucks :/
They have changed HW1 so much that now I don't know
I used to dock strike craft, wall formation ion frigates, claw formation bombers in agressive mode, put destroyers + frigates to destroy the bigger ones, bombers to destroy the smaller ones. Do not bother with asteroids on the side, you have to do a little mental path tracking and only focus on the asteroids that are for sure in collision with the mothership. But now.... I'm not sure if this works.
I really hope a mod brings normal HW1 gameplay... this kind of sucks :/
I don't think they can mod it. HW 2 engine would need to be re written to track things like projectile speeds/time of travel, ship and turret turn rates like the old HW 1 engine. It just not made to do the physics modelling like HW OG. If it was a quick fix or feasible I'm guessing gearbox would have done it, instead remastered HW is just HW "skin" running on 2's engine.
then just bring HW1 remastered models, cutscenes and backgrounds to the HW1 OG, are mods restricted to only the remasters?
Turin Turambar
Member
I suppose I'm too old for this shit, and get off my lawn, but I hate the new UI, which just follows the conventionalism of RTS
I don' want that thing at the right bottom corner (I never used them in rts games, usually with right click, left click and attack move is enough), nor I want the ugly box at the bottom left corner, the number at the middle bottom aren't really needed nor the left top bit.
I prefer the super minimalistic but functional UI of the original
Why don't you use the "hide hud" feature? You'll ask. Because it's a gimmick feature it isn't well thought. Yes, it hides the hud, but that doesn't mean you can use the UI as in the classic game, as it doesn't have the list of selected ships in the right top corner and the right click menu has made super clunky. Before it was opened with just a right click button, now it's holding down shift + right click, and "unholding" the keys when you are on top of the correct choice.
I don't have a problem with the new build menu, in the other hand, it's better than the modal window from HW1, but again, it could have been designed in a more minimalistic style.
I don' want that thing at the right bottom corner (I never used them in rts games, usually with right click, left click and attack move is enough), nor I want the ugly box at the bottom left corner, the number at the middle bottom aren't really needed nor the left top bit.
I prefer the super minimalistic but functional UI of the original
It seems a small difference but it gave the feeling you were -in space-, you were giving orders and looking at stuff in game, not giving orders -through a hud-.
Why don't you use the "hide hud" feature? You'll ask. Because it's a gimmick feature it isn't well thought. Yes, it hides the hud, but that doesn't mean you can use the UI as in the classic game, as it doesn't have the list of selected ships in the right top corner and the right click menu has made super clunky. Before it was opened with just a right click button, now it's holding down shift + right click, and "unholding" the keys when you are on top of the correct choice.
I don't have a problem with the new build menu, in the other hand, it's better than the modal window from HW1, but again, it could have been designed in a more minimalistic style.
Turin Turambar
Member
But why did they so many changes? I thought they had the original code.
FWIW you can hide a lot of the HUD with backspace. There is a right click menu but I'm not really clear how you bring it up (since rightclick issues move commands). Hotkeys for the build and research interface would be nice though.
Grouping fighters into attack wings was also great.
I've encountered a fair few bugs due to mission triggers not activating correctly. For instance; in The Cathedral of Kadesh
Bugs like this are relatively common, and in at least a couple of places they've been show stopping and have required reloading from an earlier save state (I've encountered one where the entire screen just faded to black when a cutscene was supposed to play). Even when they aren't they ruin the pacing of missions. My recommendation, personally, would be to play through HW1 Classic's SP mode if you've never played it before, because it seems less likely to be marred by these kinds of mission trigger glitches.
Grouping fighters into attack wings was also great.
I've encountered a fair few bugs due to mission triggers not activating correctly. For instance; in The Cathedral of Kadesh
the needleships started withdrawing when only one of them had been destroyed, so two withdrew to the centre of the nebula. This would be fine, but the mission triggers are operating such that the needleships are indestructible until they reach the Khar-Toba's sister ship, and the two ships got into a pathing bug/error such that one was permanently indestructible because it was being blocked from reaching the destination by the other. Luckily it did move forward after the one in the 'trigger' spot was destroyed, but it would have meant a frustrating retreading of 30 minutes of playing if it had remained out of position. Additionally, the multi-beam frigates that are supposed to be waiting for you where the needleships flee to attacked me as soon as the needleships did, which meant there was no defense force. And since units now fire indiscriminately on ships that your salvage corvettes are in the process of dragging back to the mothership, I only managed to capture two before the others were destroyed by my fleet (grumble grumble).
Bugs like this are relatively common, and in at least a couple of places they've been show stopping and have required reloading from an earlier save state (I've encountered one where the entire screen just faded to black when a cutscene was supposed to play). Even when they aren't they ruin the pacing of missions. My recommendation, personally, would be to play through HW1 Classic's SP mode if you've never played it before, because it seems less likely to be marred by these kinds of mission trigger glitches.
Probably because they are using a "new" engine, and with the associated bugs that might involve, also in the case of ballistics they went with "graphics > gameplay".
Anyone seen links troubleshooting the remaster not starting up?
The game runs perfectly for me. No problems at all.
However, my younger brother called me and the games won't even launch. He's on a 6 core AMD CPU, GTX 660 Ti, 8GB Ram.
Just wondering if anyone had seen fixes/suggestions?
He tried video driver updates, reinstalling, and turning off his Antivirus software.
The game runs perfectly for me. No problems at all.
However, my younger brother called me and the games won't even launch. He's on a 6 core AMD CPU, GTX 660 Ti, 8GB Ram.
Just wondering if anyone had seen fixes/suggestions?
He tried video driver updates, reinstalling, and turning off his Antivirus software.
Is it actually a new engine or a repurposed HW2 engine?
This is kind of disappointing, honestly. It looks so goddamned good but those changes... I loved how formations worked in the original. The ballistics simplification is pretty lousy too.
edit: I also prefer the UI minimalism of the original. At least they included the original versions I guess.
Auto-Reply
Member
Man I'm not sure if I should wait for patches, reading these complaints... ... .. .
Well, as of this post, I guess I own a $99 ship model with a manual and a keychain... And nothing else.
None of the games will launch, apparently due to some incompatibility with older AMD drivers (which I cannot update further on my 5yr old gaming laptop).
Guess it makes my computer buy that much more needed, but it sucks.
None of the games will launch, apparently due to some incompatibility with older AMD drivers (which I cannot update further on my 5yr old gaming laptop).
Guess it makes my computer buy that much more needed, but it sucks.
It's the HW2 engine.
Fair play if the only realistic solution to doing this remaster was to port it to the HW2 engine, even if that meant a hybrid of the mechanics of HW1 and 2 in certain respects.
It just means that for newcomers who want the 'real' experience, they should play HW Classic's campaign mode.
It's a mix and match of HW1 and HW2 code apparently, but mainly it uses a retooled HW2 engine.
And yeah, the new UI sucks, another unnecessary change to appeal to noone in particular?
Gearbox actually said they were going to port it into HW2 engine (HW). They did not hide the fact at all. I'm just sort of surprised that the engines were so fundamentally different that HW remaster is a utterly different game from HW OG.
This pisses me off.
I mean it sure looks pretty, but the game is basically broken, unless they significantly altered the missions. And from what I'm seeing, they didn't.
It's almost like playing a new game, on one hand that is refreshing, on the other the glitches are way problematic and game breaking.
Turin Turambar
Member
From what I'm reading, the ballistics change came in the original HW2, we can imagine that engine was the start point. And in HW2 the ballistic system changed to RNG rolls because it was much more friendly to the network system in multiplayer.
I did a little digging today with Homeworld 2 Classic that they included. And it seems they didn't actually remove multiplayer. They just removed the main menu button for it.
So I got my classic copy of HW2, copied the menu file for the main menu, and got it to run it as a mod, and voila!
It even uses the Steam servers. Just tried playing a game and it even seems to work!
EDIT: Got this shoved on Steam Workshop, here.
So I got my classic copy of HW2, copied the menu file for the main menu, and got it to run it as a mod, and voila!
It even uses the Steam servers. Just tried playing a game and it even seems to work!
EDIT: Got this shoved on Steam Workshop, here.
Nice find !
This is so weird to me, multiplayer in Homeworld worked fine and we are talking about internet speeds of 1999.
They became translucent, nto invisible, and would clip over objects that were supposed to be on the background - but it seems ot have been due to the on screen display app I use... I think it's the one that comes with MSI afterburner. I turned that off and it went away. Make sure he's not running somehting similar.
I'm finding it a bit awkward to cotrol the camera in this game. Holding down the right mouse button sometimes causes the camera not to rotate but pivot in place instead. Also it's easy to start giving a move command instead of moving the camera.
Sins of a solar empire was definitely easier to control.
The game is so much fun though.
Sins of a solar empire was definitely easier to control.
The game is so much fun though.
I'll check into it when he brings his laptop by my work later. Thanks!
afternoon delight
Member
Very interesting, this is the type of feedback I love to hear. I'm thinking I might just play classic HW1 with proven mods if the changes to fundamentals are so jarring.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
I'm really disappointed to hear that they got rid of the actual ballistics that HW1 had. The RNG hit/miss method in HW2 was not nearly as interesting. I actually made a small mod of HW2 way back when to try and make it based on ballistics again but it... failed pretty miserably.
Some changes worked well, specifically for strike craft, because I upped their rate of fire while dropping their accuracy so that they had to get close in for kills so dogfights ended up looking pretty slick and balance was easy to maintain.
When I started changing things for cap ships, though, the limitations of the engine became apparent. The turrets on destroyers, for example, would turn to within a certain angle of their target and call it close enough since they would then count on the RNG. Setting them to dumb-fire with the intent of making long shots possible but difficult ended up making them useless. They'd get 5 degrees off of their target, say "okay that'll work" and blast off into space; engagement ranges for cap ships plummeted to no further than a few hundred meters.
I wonder if the modding community will give the game another shot, and if the tools for modding it will be better or worse than they were before. Some of HW2 mods from before, like Point Defense, got pretty wild and awesome. I always loved mods that made frigates become more evasive as you'd expect them to when fighting larger cap ships.
Some changes worked well, specifically for strike craft, because I upped their rate of fire while dropping their accuracy so that they had to get close in for kills so dogfights ended up looking pretty slick and balance was easy to maintain.
When I started changing things for cap ships, though, the limitations of the engine became apparent. The turrets on destroyers, for example, would turn to within a certain angle of their target and call it close enough since they would then count on the RNG. Setting them to dumb-fire with the intent of making long shots possible but difficult ended up making them useless. They'd get 5 degrees off of their target, say "okay that'll work" and blast off into space; engagement ranges for cap ships plummeted to no further than a few hundred meters.
I wonder if the modding community will give the game another shot, and if the tools for modding it will be better or worse than they were before. Some of HW2 mods from before, like Point Defense, got pretty wild and awesome. I always loved mods that made frigates become more evasive as you'd expect them to when fighting larger cap ships.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
I've spent over an hour now searching for two hyperspace inhibitors.
Restarted the mission to see where they were, but they don't seem to be there in my current game? Don't really want to restart as I have built a bunch of ships and have 6000 RUs in the bank.
This happen to anyone else?
Restarted the mission to see where they were, but they don't seem to be there in my current game? Don't really want to restart as I have built a bunch of ships and have 6000 RUs in the bank.
This happen to anyone else?
dancrane212
Member
Not liking some of the changes I'm reading for HomeWorld 1. At least the original game was included, worst case I'll play that if I find everything too jarring.
I'm actually interested in holding out on playing the games again to try them with the Steam controller. I don't remember Homeworld having a large amount of keyboard commands, it could be a good fit to play the campaign on my TV. My Desktop downstairs has dual monitors setup which could also be cool to try out as well, anyone have luck running the remaster on multiple monitors?
I'm actually interested in holding out on playing the games again to try them with the Steam controller. I don't remember Homeworld having a large amount of keyboard commands, it could be a good fit to play the campaign on my TV. My Desktop downstairs has dual monitors setup which could also be cool to try out as well, anyone have luck running the remaster on multiple monitors?
Hari Seldon
Member
So HW Classic is the actual original game with the original old resolution options?
I went through the tutorial for HW1 last night. I never played the original. The interface is definitely from the 90s haha. It is going to take a while to get used to.
I went through the tutorial for HW1 last night. I never played the original. The interface is definitely from the 90s haha. It is going to take a while to get used to.
Yes.
And the interface was actually better in the 90s! The remastered version's is no good.
6 missions completed and I've ecountered no bug at all, I feel lucky
It's basically HW1 with HW2 engine, nothing more or less in terms of gameplay mechanics. We knew that and honestly i don't understand all the complain at this point. Not only that, HW2 was a fucking good game, even with the "downgraded" gameplay compared to HW1, just like this remaster. Now it seems, at least in this thread, that it was a shitty game and I think this is really unfair.
Don't forget that the Complex mod was built with this engine and HW w/ Complex is by far the best HW.
It's basically HW1 with HW2 engine, nothing more or less in terms of gameplay mechanics. We knew that and honestly i don't understand all the complain at this point. Not only that, HW2 was a fucking good game, even with the "downgraded" gameplay compared to HW1, just like this remaster. Now it seems, at least in this thread, that it was a shitty game and I think this is really unfair.
Don't forget that the Complex mod was built with this engine and HW w/ Complex is by far the best HW.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
I will get the group opened up this evening. I meant to do it last night and I got distracted waiting for the game to download and completely forgot.
It is going to take me a while to stop the urge to right click on the units for the menu too. I am adjusting to the UI but it is hard to get rid of old habits!I do not like that they gave the HW2 UI to HW1. Do not like that UI.
And i really hate that you cant right click on your ships anymore
And the HW2 Ui is taking up so much space. HW1 UI was small and clean.
I've been worried about the issues people have been reporting but so far I've been lucky. Granted I only play the first missions and then started testing out skirmish mode. My friend is playing the games for the first time and so far it is working but I'm tempted to recommend playing the classic versions to see what it was really like.
I'm guessing that the game wasn't tested in depth and now that it is out for the public Gearbox will get better feedback and bug reports. Granted some of the issues are due to the engine but I am hopeful that they will at least be able to fix the issues that prevent progress.
No one is saying it's a shitty game, but HW2 has been viewed as less than ideal sequel, by a lot of fans, to HW1 and HW:C.
Having HW1 play with the limitations of HW2 is not a good thing any way you look at it, the missions are not balanced for the new mechanics, the strategies are all off, the gameplay is utterly underwhelming. But you re right, they never hid that it was going to be HW2 with the HW1 campaign.
Also, some of the bugs with formations, salvage ships, mission crashes, etc, are disappointing. They actually managed to add more bugs to HW than there already were.
I'm more worried about balance, if you've found no problem in that regard then I'm ok with it, as I said it's certainly going to make the game feel fresher than if it was just a graphical upgrade. The original is there thankfully. I still think basic stuff like making damaged ships flee when in evasive tactics should be implemented somehow.
And of course I'm also worried about game breaking bugs.
Demigod Mac
Member
I must be missing something but, how does this work?
I tested it and it looks like they didn't change anything in this regard.
bonesmccoy
Banned
Well, I really like this. It's much harder than I thought it would be.
I had to restart the 2nd mission - I thought I was supposed to go after the carrier.
I had to restart the 2nd mission - I thought I was supposed to go after the carrier.
...
It's automatic, what else do you want me to say? you do nothing.
Now, I don't know if it's implemented in all levels but for example I played the Sea of Lost Souls level and at the end I got 4000 RU and in the next level I had 20000+ RU.