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Mother who fled UK for Syria (and IS) with five children 'wants to come home'

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Baki

Baki

Member
It's important to bring the kids back.

Regarding the mother, it sounds like her husband convinced her to go over but taking the kids was incredibly reckless (no doubt her husband told her it was safe). In this situation, since she hasn't committed any clear crimes (other than taking kids to a war zone), she should be given a chance for rehabilitation.

And on that note, I think people who flee isis after discovering what they really are, should be given a chance for rehabilitation (and if it's clear they haven't even commited crimes / involved in front line operations).

Just my opinion though.
 
R

Rootbeer

Banned
If you leave to join or support isis in any way, then you are poison and not wanted back. That's the message I'd send. Fully support the children returning if they could come to some agreement on that, even if it's not the perfect ideal at least it would show the proper compassion for them. She's a shit mother to take all those children with her for such a terrible cause.
PlayALLtheGames said:
Because England is civilized and you have 5 kids involved. Plus, you can use the woman to potentially deter other Brits from going to Syria/Iraq by telling her first-hand account of how fucked up it is.
Click to expand...
Or maybe the message it sends is that if you join a terrorist group you can come back if you change your mind. Especially if you bring your kids with you.
Ganhyun said:
Didn't you see Crab's post? Its not her fault.
Click to expand...
I'm not in line with that reasoning. Good attempt at explaining her POV but I don't buy it. She has a brain.
 
G

Ganhyun

Member
Zulithe said:
If you leave to join or support isis in any way, then you are poison and not wanted back. That's the message I'd send. Fully support the children returning if they could come to some agreement on that, even if it's not the perfect ideal at least it would show the proper compassion for them. She's a shit mother to take all those children with her for such a terrible cause.
Click to expand...

Didn't you see Crab's post? Its not her fault.
 
Baki

Baki

Member
SmokyDave said:
I want to believe that rehabilitation is the right option, and that these people can be used as effective deterrents to others. I want to, but I don't. Sucks for the kids but I think a more effective deterrent might be a policy of 'once you're there, you ain't coming back'. Seems like a good way of gradually reducing our radicalised or radical-leaning population.
Click to expand...

... Leave the kids out there. I hope you realise how fucked up that sounds..?
 
J

jonno394

Member
The kids never made a conscious decision to go there, so if they want to come back we should welcome them back. The mother should come back (shouldn't leave kids without a mother in the country) and be punished accordingly. Kids can stay in care while she's in prison.
 
J

jelly

Member
PlayALLtheGames said:
Because England is civilized and you have 5 kids involved. Plus, you can use the woman to potentially deter other Brits from going to Syria/Iraq by telling her first-hand account of how fucked up it is.
Click to expand...

I can understand that view but I doubt that is her true opinion so it rings hollow. She is scrambling not seeing the light.
 
S

Succinct Verbosity

Member
Her only path to redemption is giving up her kids regardless of the consequences to herself. If the mother is truly remorseful then she'd do anything to save her kids; if this is just another case of the mother thinking of herself before her kids then, well, let her come back with the children and punish her severely.
 
D

Dennis

Banned
PlayALLtheGames said:
Because England is civilized and you have 5 kids involved. Plus, you can use the woman to potentially deter other Brits from going to Syria/Iraq by telling her first-hand account of how fucked up it is.
Click to expand...

I fail to see the deterrence effect of showing that no matter how evil you behave England will always take you back.
 
K

KHlover

Banned
This is conflicting. On one hand I want to believe that folks who pull the stunt of willingly joining ISIS can be rehabilitated in a way, but on the other hand a part of me would love it if their passports were taken away upon leaving the country and reentering made impossible.
 
W

Walpurgis

Banned
SmokyDave said:
I want to believe that rehabilitation is the right option, and that these people can be used as effective deterrents to others. I want to, but I don't. Sucks for the kids but I think a more effective deterrent might be a policy of 'once you're there, you ain't coming back'. Seems like a good way of gradually reducing our radicalised or radical-leaning population.
Click to expand...
how did i know that you would write this
 
D

Dennis

Banned
Western democracies are not a suicide pact.

We don't have to care for people who want to kill, rape and destroy us.
 
The Incarnation

The Incarnation

Member
She's can go back to Somalia. Leave this country for dumbass reasons like that and you should forfeit your right to belong here and that includes the kids. They're her responsibility and she had no problem putting them in harms way in Syria.
 
T

Tenebrous

Member
Baki said:
... Leave the kids out there. I hope you realise how fucked up that sounds..?
Click to expand...

Indeed. Taking the kids back shouldn't even be a question. 100% yes, and give them any and all the support they need.

The Incarnation said:
She's can go back to Somalia. Leave this country for dumbass reasons like that and you should forfeit your right to belong here and that includes the kids. They're her responsibility and she had no problem putting them in harms way in Syria.
Click to expand...

The kids have done nothing.
 
P

ProfessorMoran

Member
Biforce Of Power said:
She went to bring her husband back? Bullshit. If that was the case, why take the kids? She had every intention of staying in Syria to help support Islamic State's cause, and even probably had the intention to raise her kids to do the same. No, fuck that shit. Keep her and the children out of this country. She made her choice, let her deal with the consequences.

#NotOurProblem
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This.

She went there on her own volition, she can stay there.
 
A

AuthenticM

Member
Crab said:
Repatriate them, put the children into care, provide mental health support for the mother and put her under a very carefully monitored rehabilitation procedure, and when done try and persuade her to proselytize against ISIS. Everyone wins.
Click to expand...

.
 
K

Kenshin001

Member
The Sunday Times said:
She said the final straw was when the US-led coalition bombed the house where they were living, killing seven Isis commanders and members of their families.
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The poor woman was living with 7 IS commanders. Must have been traumatic. Let her back in and give her benefits and a nice big council house to recover.
 
S

SlickShoesRUCrazy

Member
I don't buy it. Probably will go back to the uk and use her kids as child suicide bombers or some shit...

She was living with 7 ISIS commanders....and the only reason she wants to comeback is because her home was blown up.
 
Q

QuicheFontaine

Member
Zulithe said:
Or maybe the message it sends is that if you join a terrorist group you can come back if you change your mind. Especially if you bring your kids with you.
Click to expand...

I'd also be concerned about IS sending people back specifically to carry out terrorist attacks. If you establish the principle that people who leave the UK to join IS can come back by saying they've had a change of heart, then what's to stop IS abusing that to send back UK citizens who have gone over there for training?
 
The Incarnation

The Incarnation

Member
Tenebrous said:
Indeed. Taking the kids back shouldn't even be a question. 100% yes, and give them any and all the support they need.



The kids have done nothing.
Click to expand...


Most kids in the world haven't. Why should I put these kids welfare above others in the world? Plenty of kids getting blown to shit in Syria alone. The mother and father's duty was to their own kids. Instead they go and fight for some warped belief. They've purposefully negated that duty and yet expect others to pick it up.

Granted if a few individuals in this nation want to volunteer and look after those kids themselves then that is their choice and I'm fine with that. But if that woman truly wants to be with her own children then she can do it elsewhere where's she would clearly be more comfortable.
 
G

GeordieMark

Member
AuthenticM said:
.
Click to expand...

Really? That post massively oversimplifies the situation and makes huge assumptions that the rather naive plan will work out wonderfully.

It so much easier to assume she has mental issues rather than the much more likely scenario which is that she does genuinely believe in the ISIS cause. It seems to suit those with a more liberal bent to assume nobody ever does anything bad knowing exactly what they are doing. She doesn't need help, she needs punishing.

We risk setting an example where people like her have nothing to lose by going to Syria. If it works out, great. If it goes tits up, we move back to good old Britain. A far better deterrent is to make it a one-way trip.
 
Y

Yeoman

Member
SmokyDave said:
I want to believe that rehabilitation is the right option, and that these people can be used as effective deterrents to others. I want to, but I don't. Sucks for the kids but I think a more effective deterrent might be a policy of 'once you're there, you ain't coming back'. Seems like a good way of gradually reducing our radicalised or radical-leaning population.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure the children should be punished for their Mother's idiocy. It's not like they had a choice in any of this.
 
S

slider

Member
She's a fucking idiot. But the kids are victims. I take it she hasn't been deprived / the royal perogative hasn't been exercised?

Cos if it hasn't and she remains a UK cit, I think the FCO is compelled to provide consular assistance. They do it for pissed up Brits all around the world. They can't pick and choose unfortunately.

And as a country that proudly abides by its laws we should be proud of that. I mean, it's cheesy as fuck, but that's what we're fighting for.

She's still a fucking idiot though. I'd hope that she can be charged with something. "In the interests of national security" provides scope for all sorts of things I'd imagine. At the very least she should be spoken to by The Security Service.

The above is a random list of thoughts. No coherency expected.
 
A

Agent Gibbs

Member
I am really conflicted over this; The mother made her bed and should lay in it! she consciously made the choice to join a barbaric terrorist organisation that freely takes women as sex slaves, beheads anyone for anything and resorts to violence over the drop of a hat - anyone who chooses that over a "normal" life is beyond hope, their hands a soiled with the blood of all ISIS's victims

but the children, part of me feels sorry for them, and thinks they should be rehabilitated.....but then i remember they had those parents, have been indoctrinated in Syria for years, ISIS trains children to be their soldiers and executioners, they may already be beyond hope, and bringing them back may be dangerous as they could never loose their warped beliefs and then spread them like the current extremist cancer
Is it worth the risk? would it be better to refuse them all to send a clear message to those who've left and those who are thinking of going?

I don't know, perhaps the rose tinted glasses we use to view children isn't the most impartial and logical, they could be just as guilty
 
Hari Seldon

Hari Seldon

Member
Are there any UK politicians seriously considering letting her back in? Of course you don't let people who leave the country to train up on how to be a terrorist back in to your country lol.
 
T

Tenebrous

Member
The Incarnation said:
Most kids in the world haven't. Why should I put these kids welfare above others in the world? Plenty of kids getting blown to shit in Syria alone. The mother and father's duty was to their own kids. Instead they go and fight for some warped belief. They've purposefully negated that duty and yet expect others to pick it up.

Granted if a few individuals in this nation want to volunteer and look after those kids themselves then that is their choice and I'm fine with that. But if that woman truly wants to be with her own children then she can do it elsewhere where's she would clearly be more comfortable.
Click to expand...

The kids are already UK nationals who've suffered at the hands of those that should be protecting them. Like it or not, they're "our" people, and their safety should be prioritized. They had no choice in the matter - They're victims. To leave them over there would be a terrible thing to do.

The mother isn't going to be with her own children, though. We'd be idiots to allow that.
 
G

GeordieMark

Member
SmokyDave said:
I couldn't give the slightest hint of a fuck. Sooner that than her kids blow my kids up in ten years.
Click to expand...

As harsh as it sounds, I kinda agree. There are plenty of kids in the world who need help. I'd rather give the resources we'd use on Mrs Begum's litter to them.

Life isn't fair.
 
J

jimbobsmells

Member
She's clearly not an idiot. She knew exactly what she was getting into and so do all the others that join them. I have zero sympathy for her.
Bring the kids back if they are British nationals. Put them in care. But leave her there.
I wouldn't be surprised if they become easy targets for radicalisation themselves as they grow up.
 
MisterR

MisterR

Member
You have to wonder, if they take the kids but not the Mom or they take them from her and put her in jail, how easy are those kids going to be to radicalize down the road. I don't think you can take them back.
 
TheMan

TheMan

Member
So now that her face is out there and it's publicly known that she wants to leave, how much time does she have before her entire family is murdered?
 
K

keuja

Member
If they manage to come back, let them since they're British nationals apparently. But tax payers money shoud not pay for their repatriation when they are entirely responsible of their current situation.
 
H

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
The kids are British, and they haven't done anything wrong. Bring them back. As for the mom, bring her and punish her for her stupidity, and squeeze her to provide info on anyone who helped organise her travel to Syria.
 
Iorv3th

Iorv3th

Member
I think the moms story is bullshit. She moved her entire family over to convince her husband to leave? Sounds more like she moved over to live with him, found out he was dead then realized how shitty it was after being over there alone for 10 months. Why the hell did she stay 10 months before trying to leave?
 
P

PlayALLtheGames

Banned
Dennis said:
I fail to see the deterrence effect of showing that no matter how evil you behave England will always take you back.
Click to expand...

Well the people who want to go probably aren't thinking of ever coming back so I don't think they care about that. But if she can make even one person understand what a terrible idea it is to go, and how ISIS is "not Islamic" as she now puts it, it may help.
 
A

Aki-at

Member
Children must be brought back and put in care, no two ways about it for a civilised society when they're UK nationals.

Mother too, however she should be tried for her crimes, which at the very least amounts to child abuse.
 
D

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
Crab said:
Repatriate them, put the children into care, provide mental health support for the mother and put her under a very carefully monitored rehabilitation procedure, and when done try and persuade her to proselytize against ISIS. Everyone wins.
Click to expand...

Be a lot easier if we just told them to piss off

I don't want these people in my country
 
H

hydragonwarrior

Member
Zulithe said:
If you leave to join or support isis in any way, then you are poison and not wanted back. That's the message I'd send. Fully support the children returning if they could come to some agreement on that, even if it's not the perfect ideal at least it would show the proper compassion for them. She's a shit mother to take all those children with her for such a terrible cause.
Click to expand...

I don't think the kids would want to come if the mother doesn't. Who exactly will take care of those kids?

Crab said:
Repatriate them, put the children into care, provide mental health support for the mother and put her under a very carefully monitored rehabilitation procedure, and when done try and persuade her to proselytize against ISIS. Everyone wins.
Click to expand...

This solution is fantastic. Her punishment is essentially to spread her story to the world, and not take her out of the limelight. I believe it will at least help for women who are thinking of joining ISIS.
 
G

GeordieMark

Member
PlayALLtheGames said:
Well the people who want to go probably aren't thinking of ever coming back so I don't think they care about that. But if she can make even one person understand what a terrible idea it is to go, and how ISIS is "not Islamic" as she now puts it, it may help.
Click to expand...

If this situation is the only thing that persuades someone that it is a bad idea to side with ISIS, they are already a lost cause. I don't believe for a second she has changed her outlook. Look at the circumstances behind her wish to return.

There are many things we could do that would be as, or more, effective at getting that message across than shipping that idiot back to Britain. I wouldn't be surprised if she took her kids purely as leverage in case she did want to return. She definitely wasn't wasn't concerned with their well-being when she moved to a warzone.
 
A

Aegus

Member
jimbobsmells said:
She's clearly not an idiot. She knew exactly what she was getting into and so do all the others that join them. I have zero sympathy for her.
Bring the kids back if they are British nationals. Put them in care.But leave her there.

I wouldn't be surprised if they become easy targets for radicalisation themselves as they grow up.
Click to expand...

You mean there is a chance that they'd resent the country they live in for leaving their mother to die/be raped in a warzone and thus be easy radicalisation targets? Quelle surprise!

Bring them all home. Have the mother (and kids once they're of age to carry out tasks).

This hard-line stance that people want hasn't worked. And won't work
 
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