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marrec · Oct 6, 2015

Spyder_Monkey said:
Adam Boyes literally said that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dL198n2d0o

Stop pretending that Sony and Yu Suzuki is lying to you in some sort of conspiracy. The answers are right there.

I've watched the video (just rewatched it in fact) and Boyes said "he's self publishing it" with some mumbling about "putting in some scratch in, support it, help market it" and then goes on to explain that the Kickstarter campaign was a quick way to replace a traditional Profit and Loss statement, which implies that they are going to profit on this project in some way, implying investment.

There's nothing clear about what Sony's total involvement is but based on what Boyes has said, what Suzuki has said, and what Corsi has said it's fairly clear that they're investing in the development of Shenmue III in some way, but not full investment.

twobear · Oct 6, 2015

Coffee Dog said:
It's something that was already clarified. It's not a hypothetical, like you're suggesting.

So--setting aside your weird fascination with Sony despite my not having mentioned them--you're claiming, basically, that this quote is falsified:

"I really can't get into that, but there are other sources of funding that will be put together with the Kickstarter. ... I can't get into specifics, but for right now I just want to keep the comment that yes, I have funding sources outside Kickstarter that I collected through my company YS Net, and that will combine with the Kickstarter for this project."

http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/17/8798203/shenmue-kickstarter-budget-sony

Phediuk · Oct 6, 2015

The Shenmue Kickstarter was weird and a bit shady. People have been burned by Kickstarter in the past. A critical position is completely justified.

I don't see a problem with any of these articles and I wish more game journalism was like them.

VibratingDonkey · Oct 6, 2015

get2sammyb said:
I think there could have been a little more transparency from Sony and Yu Suzuki, but the media didn't cover itself in glory by going for easy headlines rather than investigating the truth.

In my opinion, pretty much all parties were to blame in this instance. I don't really care, though: Shenmue III is going to get made. I don't think it'll be a great game by any stretch, but I still can't believe I'm even able to say those words.

Pretty much.

I'm sure everyone can agree that the kickstarter campaign had issues. For instance, the initial communication from Sony regarding its involvement was confusing as Boyes first distanced Sony by saying "it's very much their [YS Net's] thing" and then after the goal was reached it suddenly was Sony's thing, and then no one really knew what that meant for a while.

But anyway, at this point it's like it's become the kickstarter to poke and prod at for anyone who's feeling all antsy about crowdfunding. More because it was so high profile, rather than any actual suspected wrongdoing or shadiness. There's nothing wrong with saying you'd like a bit more money, yet that quote's being trotted around like it's supposed to be incriminating or something. I don't know, at times it just feels cynical for the sake of it. And that's sad.

Coffee Dog · Oct 6, 2015

godelsmetric said:
So--setting aside your weird fascination with Sony despite my not having mentioned them--you're claiming, basically, that this quote is falsified:

http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/17/8798203/shenmue-kickstarter-budget-sony

No, I'm claiming that it's irrelevant. If the additional money scrounged up is so minor that it needs to be kickstarted anyway, what is the problem?

kitchenmotors · Oct 6, 2015

godelsmetric said:
So--setting aside your weird fascination with Sony despite my not having mentioned them--you're claiming, basically, that this quote is falsified:

http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/17/8798203/shenmue-kickstarter-budget-sony

Drag ha.

twobear · Oct 6, 2015

Coffee Dog said:
No, I'm claiming that it's irrelevant. If the additional money scrounged up is so minor that it needs to be kickstarted anyway, what is the problem?

Because you're weirdly obsessed with Sony or because of some other reason that you haven't actually explained?

[edit] So you don't see how the amount of additional money that's being added significantly changes the nature of what people are being asked for with the Kickstarter?

Spyder_Monkey · Oct 6, 2015

marrec said:
I've watched the video (just rewatched it in fact) and Boyes said "he's self publishing it" with some mumbling about "putting in some scratch in, support it, help market it" and then goes on to explain that the Kickstarter campaign was a quick way to replace a traditional Profit and Loss statement, which implies that they are going to profit on this project in some way, implying investment.

There's nothing clear about what Sony's total involvement is but based on what Boyes has said, what Suzuki has said, and what Corsi has said it's fairly clear that they're investing in the development of Shenmue III in some way, but not full investment.

Sounds pretty clear to me. Can we move on?

Ol No Bones · Oct 6, 2015

Coffee Dog said:
Sony is obviously not helping in any significant way.

I'm sorry, Sony had this game front and center for a significant amount of time on their most important stage to announce a kickstarter and console exclusivity. If the claim is that Sony isn't involved significantly I will absolutely call bullshit on that.

Shenmue · Oct 6, 2015

Phediuk said:
The Shenmue Kickstarter was weird and a bit shady. People have been burned by Kickstarter in the past. A critical position is completely justified.

I don't see a problem with any of these articles and I wish more game journalism was like them.

I agree it was weird and unclear because of the appearance on Sony's stage and then their really unclear statements about their involvement. But how was it shady?

Many Kickstarter projects get funding from outside sources that are not ever even mentioned much less given ambiguous comments about.

If your position is that the majority of game KS projects are "shady" because of that, then I can understand, but if you're just singling out Shenmue that doesn't make sense.

pizzacat · Oct 6, 2015

PdotMichael said:
Make me wonder how much of the shit is a result of some Microsoft bias, which was quite the thing in the US press with all the defence for Microsoft's original Xbox One concept.

haha you guys are top notch

VendettaRed07 · Oct 6, 2015

But guys, spreading misinformation and asking basic questions that have already been answered countless times in order to paint a negative image of a crowd funded project is totally fine.

I mean it's totally unethical to use crowd funding in order to get a sequel to the biggest financial disaster in videogame history, that was a flag ship title to a failed console, 15 years after release. It sets such a poor precedent that companies will use crowd funding for such projects that were obviously going to be sure fire successes

Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to defend EA and Activisions use of cash grab, micro transaction, already on the disc DLC, as long as it's cosmetic

Stephen Stills · Oct 6, 2015

pizzacat said:
haha you guys are top notch

Once again, when Polygon writers openly admit to taking $750,000 from Microsoft, their bias should probably be called into question.

Windom Earle · Oct 6, 2015

Stephen Stills said:
Once again, when Polygon writers openly admit to taking $750,000 from Microsoft, their bias should probably be called into question.

Also people with agendas getting salty that a title is not releasing on their system of choice? Totally unheard of.

MUnited83 · Oct 6, 2015

Rymuth said:
Some of those who are quick to jump to the media's defense really show their colors by using the defense "W-wh-what? Must everything be positive?" It's not about positivity, it's the seemingly laser-focused effort to make every Suzuki interview into a goddamn disaster. The original Eurogamer article didn't even focus on the money aspect, yet that's the headline they decided to go with:

So what started as

Suzuki: I could use more money, the game itself doesn't have to be gorgeous~

became the headline

Suzuki: I could do with more money

and evolved into

Shenmue III's 6 million is not enough!

And finally mutated into

Shenmue III needs more of your money, visuals compromised

It's an ugly game of clickbait tag.

Yeeeep. How can anyone defend this shitty ass clickbait articles is beyond me.

marrec said:
That's where you're likely wrong, but neither Suzuki nor Sony nor Shibuya has made this entirely clear.

At this point the only way it would be clear to people that spout that argument over and over is if they released their infernal financial reports and Contracts. And even then people wouldn't believe it, as they probably wouldn't fit their narrative.

There's no way if winning. There's no way of being more clear than what they already have. People who doubt it will continue to doubt it no matter the proof thrown to their faces.

Coffee Dog · Oct 6, 2015

godelsmetric said:
Because you're weirdly obsessed with Sony or because of some other reason that you haven't actually explained?

[edit] So you don't see how the amount of additional money that's being added significantly changes the nature of what people are being asked for with the Kickstarter?

People are being asked for money to help get Shenmue 3 made. The kickstarter states that without that money Shenmue 3 will not be made. Obviously the amount of additional money being contributed is not significiant if that statement is true.

Ol No Bones said:
I'm sorry, Sony had this game front and center for a significant amount of time on their most important stage to announce a kickstarter and console exclusivity. If the claim is that Sony isn't involved significantly I will absolutely call bullshit on that.

This is a fine opinion to have. To look at the facts and say "I think Sony and Yu Suzuki are blowing smoke up my ass and lying about some things". I just don't get why so many try to frame it all as a grand mystery when this is all they're trying to say.

twobear · Oct 6, 2015

Coffee Dog said:
People are being asked for money to help get Shenmue 3 made. The kickstarter states that without that money Shenmue 3 will not be made. Obviously the amount of additional money being contributed is not significiant if that statement is true.

There's nothing obvious about that claim at all, and I've already explained why.

Shadoken · Oct 6, 2015

Asriel said:
I'm guessing you haven't read the articles?

They're not nearly has venomous are hateful is making it out to be.

Except most people dont read articles and just look at headlines and go " Oh lol looks like Shenmue 3 is a scam".

The problem with the Headline is that they take the most negative aspect of the Interview and highlight it as though thats the only thing.

Gaogaogao · Oct 6, 2015

guys, wait for it to come out. or at least until they show a gameplay demo. its gonna be a while.

Shenmue · Oct 6, 2015

VibratingDonkey said:
Pretty much.

I'm sure everyone can agree that the kickstarter campaign had issues. For instance, the initial communication from Sony regarding its involvement was confusing as Boyes first distanced Sony by saying "it's very much their [YS Net's] thing" and then after the goal was reached it suddenly was Sony's thing, and then no one really knew what that meant for a while.

But anyway, at this point it's like it's become the kickstarter to poke and prod at for anyone who's feeling all antsy about crowdfunding. More because it was so high profile, rather than any actual suspected wrongdoing or shadiness. There's nothing wrong with saying you'd like a bit more money, yet that quote's being trotted around like it's supposed to be incriminating or something. I don't know, at times it just feels cynical for the sake of it. And that's sad.

This right here for the most part.

Except when did Sony say it was "Sony's thing"? I think they eventually said they helping in some form, either monetarily or with services, or both, but I don't think they've ever said it's Sony's thing.

As for your second paragraph that's exactly the problem with many of these articles. Many aren't openly malicious like Kuchera's, but look at the Gamespot one for example. How does the opening paragraph make sense?

Gamespot said:
Shenmue III's Kickstarter campaign may have ended back in July, but developer Ys Net is now ready to begin accepting crowdfunding once again--something that could impact its holiday 2017 release target.

Nowhere is this cause and effect scenario backed up. They've only quoted something on the slacker backer page that said they still believe they can make 2017, but as always, there's a chance it could be changed. That's always been the case even during the KS. How does accepting additional funding cause a delay of the estimated holiday 2017 release date?

Krejlooc · Oct 6, 2015

godelsmetric said:
[edit] So you don't see how the amount of additional money that's being added significantly changes the nature of what people are being asked for with the Kickstarter?

Not at all. The proposition was still entirely the same - do you want shenmue 3 to get made? If yes, donate to the kickstarter. If not, then don't.

Shadoken · Oct 6, 2015

Rymuth said:
Some of those who are quick to jump to the media's defense really show their colors by using the defense "W-wh-what? Must everything be positive?" It's not about positivity, it's the seemingly laser-focused effort to make every Suzuki interview into a goddamn disaster. The original Eurogamer article didn't even focus on the money aspect, yet that's the headline they decided to go with:

So what started as

Suzuki: I could use more money, the game itself doesn't have to be gorgeous~

became the headline

Suzuki: I could do with more money

and evolved into

Shenmue III's 6 million is not enough!

And finally mutated into

Shenmue III needs more of your money, visuals compromised

It's an ugly game of clickbait tag.

someone needs to stick this in the OP.

I dont know how anyone can defend the medias sensationalist headlines after reading this.

Spaghetti · Oct 6, 2015

I'm going to write using proper punctuation for once, to show you that I mean it.

What Shenmue 3 has shown me, is that the dividing line between message board poster and video game journalist is a lot narrower than anybody ever thought.

Eurogamer's recent article is really great. It is. It tells the story of a game developer icon emerging from a decade in the background. Revitalised by his fans, a creative given back his medium to work in. Someone who has recovered their purpose in life.

But the headline is of course "I could do with a bit more money!"

A single quote, from a very small part of the article. There's a great story in the article as a whole, there truly is. Sadly, that story has been sacrificed for clicks.

They don't want you to read about a man who is enriched by the support of fans and looking to pay them back with something they've wanted for so long. They want you to read about this imaginary greedy man rubbing his hands to get your money.

Because outrage gets page views. Even if there's nothing there to be outraged about. And so the headline gets passed around, and people think that's the whole story. Then you get awful opinion pieces like Ben Kuchera's. His baffling, weird, confusing opinion piece where you can't figure out what the point is, besides a character assassination on Yu Suzuki for purposes unknown.

Some information about Shenmue 3 has been confusing. Some quotes taken out of context, some information that wasn't immediately clarified. The campaign wasn't perfect, the fans know that better than anybody.

What's awful is that the misinformation continues to spread, even after issues have been clarified. Despite best efforts of fans who have been following Shenmue 3's development closer than pretty much anybody in the games media. When we get annoyed or angry that a journalist has cited their own opinions about it as fact, or just disappointed us with a poor title choice like Eurogamer did, suddenly we're 'outraged fanboys' and Twitter post fodder for some game journalists to sneer at.

I've seen Shenmue called a sacred cow. It's anything but. Shenmue has been openly ridiculed for years and years. Sometimes for valid reasons, and sometimes just because. It's only in the last couple of years we've seen articles like the great Guardian piece where the writer looked past the meme-bait voice acting and reputation for being 'boring walking simulator' to find a game they really liked, even without any nostalgic factor on their part.

People like Colin Moriarty writing the game off three months into development is just dumb. Nobody doubts making Shenmue 3 is a monumental task, but Yu Suzuki is a video game icon that this industry owes huge amounts to. Just as much as Miyamoto and others.

Yu Suzuki seems revitalised, energised, and creatively refreshed. That's something to be excited about. An industry great, stripped of his old superstar status, but given new purpose by his fans. It's a lot of pressure, but I definitely think he can handle it.

But nobody wants to read about that, right?

twobear · Oct 6, 2015

Krejlooc said:
Not at all. The proposition was still entirely the same - do you want shenmue 3 to get made? If yes, donate to the kickstarter. If not, then don't.

So you genuinely believe there's no substantive difference between Kickstarter as gauge of interest and Kickstarter as sole or majority funding. Interesting position, I guess.

pastrami · Oct 6, 2015

marrec said:
I've watched the video (just rewatched it in fact) and Boyes said "he's self publishing it" with some mumbling about "putting in some scratch in, support it, help market it" and then goes on to explain that the Kickstarter campaign was a quick way to replace a traditional Profit and Loss statement, which implies that they are going to profit on this project in some way, implying investment.

There's nothing clear about what Sony's total involvement is but based on what Boyes has said, what Suzuki has said, and what Corsi has said it's fairly clear that they're investing in the development of Shenmue III in some way, but not full investment.

His comment on needing a P&L statement was if Sony were to fully fund the project. It would be a first-party title at that point.

Don't get me wrong, it's obvious that Sony isn't providing funds out of the goodness of their heart. But I could see something along the lines of Pub Fund, where Sony will guarantee you a certain amount of money, then recoup that money from the first copies of the game you sell. After which, the game and it's profits are all yours. Like what happened with Guacamelee.

EDIT: Adam Boyes even mentions that Suzuki is self-publishing it.

SpikedGunner · Oct 6, 2015

Again, criticism and skepticism is totally fine, given the circumstances (and some recent events) I don't blame them. This still doesn't excuse the word twisting and clickbait titles, plus shitty articles like boxart one (it's just a quick thing made for the KS, does it need a full article).

I feel as though, if this was another (possibly beloved) developer or auteur doing a KS, the gaming press wouldn't be as "critical" even if they were less transparent than Suzuki has tried to be.

Coffee Dog · Oct 6, 2015

godelsmetric said:
There's nothing obvious about that claim at all, and I've already explained why.

Yeah, you said

godelsmetric said:
Put it this way; there's a difference between 'all and only the money accrued from Kickstarter and other donation platforms will be used on games development', and 'the Kickstarter campaign was a way to gauge public interest in Shenmue III and other, more significant sources of funding will be secured on the back of its success (or lack thereof)'.

This was clarified by adam boyes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dL198n2d0o

Adam Boyes said the kickstarter isn't a gauge of interest. So either you think that he's lying, or not.

Septic360 · Oct 6, 2015

Kickstarter is a piss take for a game like this. Shenmue was visually stunning and a technical beast at the time. Now Suzuki is talking about making compromises and saying things like "I could do with more money!"?

Why are you lot defending it? I'm not saying Shenmue 3 will be shit, but this method of funding is unfortunate for such a highly anticipated title.

Many of us don't want him to feel restricted because of lack of funds but when he's already talking about compromises then forgive me for pointing fingers at Kickstarter.

creatchee · Oct 6, 2015

Windom Earle said:
Also people with agendas getting salty that a title is not releasing on their system of choice? Totally unheard of.

It's about as unheard of as people who will defend anything and everything about something that IS releasing on their system of choice, no matter how legitimate the criticism may be.

twobear · Oct 6, 2015

Coffee Dog said:
Yeah, you said

This was clarified by adam boyes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dL198n2d0o

So either you think that he's lying, or not.

If you can point to the place where I said that I thought Sony were funding the game...

[edit] So, then, you're saying that the developers lied when they said there were additional sources of funding. Okay.

Krejlooc · Oct 6, 2015

godelsmetric said:
So you genuinely believe there's no substantive difference between Kickstarter as gauge of interest and Kickstarter as sole or majority funding. Interesting position, I guess.

This kickstarter is the majority of funding.

ZombiePlatypus · Oct 6, 2015

Stephen Stills said:
Once again, when Polygon writers openly admit to taking $750,000 from Microsoft, their bias should probably be called into question.

Windom Earle said:
Also people with agendas getting salty that a title is not releasing on their system of choice? Totally unheard of.

It's constantly amazing how these aspects seem to just keep getting glossed over repeatedly. All while touting holding "a critical eye" , looking at things "objectively as opposed to a happy fan" and "journalistic integrity."

Seriously wtf is this nonsense.

Windom Earle · Oct 6, 2015

Septic360 said:
Kickstarter is a piss take for a game like this. Shenmue was visually stunning and a technical beast at the time. Now Suzuki is talking about making compromises and saying things like "I could do with more money!"?

Why are you lot defending it? I'm not saying Shenmue 3 will be shit, but this method of funding is unfortunate for such a highly anticipated title.

Many of us don't want him to feel restricted because of lack of funds but when he's already talking about compromises then forgive me for pointing fingers at Kickstarter.

Maybe you could publish it then? Suzuki forgot asking Sony/MS, etc.

Mass_Pincup · Oct 6, 2015

godelsmetric said:
So you genuinely believe there's no substantive difference between Kickstarter as gauge of interest and Kickstarter as sole or majority funding. Interesting position, I guess.

Wait where was it said that Shenmue's kickstarter was for gauging interest?

twobear · Oct 6, 2015

Krejlooc said:
This kickstarter is the majority of funding.

So Shenmue III is going to made on a shoestring budget? Well I guess it's better than nothing.

Mass_Pincup said:
Wait where was it said that Shenmue's kickstarter was for gauging interest?

It wasn't, but between 'we want the game to have the same kind of budget as previous Shenmues' and 'we have additional sources of funding', it's a not unreasonable gloss on 'without Kickstarter this game would not be made'.

Shenmue · Oct 6, 2015

Spaghetti said:
I'm going to write using proper punctuation for once, to show you that I mean it.

What Shenmue 3 has shown me, is that the dividing line between message board poster and video game journalist is a lot narrower than anybody ever thought.

Eurogamer's recent article is really great. It is. It tells the story of a game developer icon emerging from a decade in the background. Revitalised by his fans, a creative given back his medium to work in. Someone who has recovered their purpose in life.

But the headline is of course "I could do with a bit more money!"

A single quote, from a very small part of the article. There's a great story in the article as a whole, there truly is. Sadly, that story has been sacrificed for clicks.

They don't want you to read about a man who is enriched by the support of fans and looking to pay them back with something they've wanted for so long. They want you to read about this imaginary greedy man rubbing his hands to get your money.

Because outrage gets page views. Even if there's nothing there to be outraged about. And so the headline gets passed around, and people think that's the whole story. Then you get awful opinion pieces like Ben Kuchera's. His baffling, weird, confusing opinion piece where you can't figure out what the point is, besides a character assassination on Yu Suzuki for purposes unknown.

Some information about Shenmue 3 has been confusing. Some quotes taken out of context, some information that wasn't immediately clarified. The campaign wasn't perfect, the fans know that better than anybody.

What's awful is that the misinformation continues to spread, even after issues have been clarified. Despite best efforts of fans who have been following Shenmue 3's development closer than pretty much anybody in the games media. When we get annoyed or angry that a journalist has cited their own opinions about it as fact, or just disappointed us with a poor title choice like Eurogamer did, suddenly we're 'outraged fanboys' and Twitter post fodder for some game journalists to sneer at.

I've seen Shenmue called a sacred cow. It's anything but. Shenmue has been openly ridiculed for years and years. Sometimes for valid reasons, and sometimes just because. It's only in the last couple of years we've seen articles like the great Guardian piece where the writer looked past the meme-bait voice acting and reputation for being 'boring walking simulator' to find a game they really liked, even without any nostalgic factor on their part.

People like Colin Moriarty writing the game off three months into development is just dumb. Nobody doubts making Shenmue 3 is a monumental task, but Yu Suzuki is a video game icon that this industry owes huge amounts to. Just as much as Miyamoto and others.

Yu Suzuki seems revitalised, energised, and creatively refreshed. That's something to be excited about. An industry great, stripped of his old superstar status, but given new purpose by his fans. It's a lot of pressure, but I definitely think he can handle it.

But nobody wants to read about that, right?

Wow. Amazing write up. See if the articles wrote anything on par with this I don't think anybody would have an issue.

I agree as well with the Eurogamer thing. It really is baffling why they would destroy a great piece with that title. The author obviously cared greatly about his work (and presumably wouldn't want to torpedo his own article), but it almost seems like an editor or someone made the title because they wanted to increase the click potential. That's really the only logical explanation I can think of.

axisofweevils · Oct 6, 2015

Septic360 said:
Kickstarter is a piss take for a game like this. Shenmue was visually stunning and a technical beast at the time. Now Suzuki is talking about making compromises and saying things like "I could do with more money!"?

Why are you lot defending it? I'm not saying Shenmue 3 will be shit, but this method of funding is unfortunate for such a highly anticipated title.

Many of us don't want him to feel restricted because of lack of funds but when he's already talking about compromises then forgive me for pointing fingers at Kickstarter.

That's what is weird to me.

Sony knew this project was a big enough megaton to get everyone hyped at E3. They devoted stage time to it. Why, then, did they not fund the $10m themselves? All the negativity would have gone in an instant. If they're already paying significant $ towards the game, why not another $10m?

The PS4 is outselling everything in sight. Sony are making bank. The fact they weren't willing to put their money where their mouth was suggests something shady.

With no KS, there would have been zero bad publicity. No Mr. HighonDrugs. No "We are the most successful gaming KS in history but we want more money from Paypal users". Hell, they could have still sold Shenmue 3 merchandise. It would be pure hype.

TL

R Sony are a multi-billion company with the most successful console this gen. Why then did they need fans to stump up $10m in order to #SaveShenmue in the first place?

Krejlooc · Oct 6, 2015

godelsmetric said:
So Shenmue III is going to made on a shoestring budget? Well I guess it's better than nothing.

$6 million isnt a shoestring budget.

You just keeo jumping from one bunk concern to the next.

Windom Earle · Oct 6, 2015

creatchee said:
It's about as unheard of as people who will defend anything and everything about something that IS releasing on their system of choice, no matter how legitimate the criticism may be.

Yes, because people in this thread haven't admitted that mistakes were made in the campaign/communication. Oh, and where are the positive Shenmue 3 articles then?

akidnamededdy · Oct 6, 2015

ZombiePlatypus said:
It's constantly amazing how these aspects seem to just keep getting glossed over repeatedly. All while touting holding "a critical eye" , looking at things "objectively as opposed to a happy fan" and "journalistic integrity."

Seriously wtf is this nonsense.

It's easier for people to get angry than it is for people to get informed, unfortunately.

twobear · Oct 6, 2015

Krejlooc said:
$6 million isnt a shoestring budget.

You just keeo jumping from one bunk concern to the next.

For a AAA game in 2015 when the previous entries cost tens of millions of dollars over a decade ago?

[edit] To be fair we have no idea of the scope of the game yet.

HarryDemeanor · Oct 6, 2015

marrec said:
We know for a fact that Sony is funding development in some way:

How is that not clear?

Edit:

Am I being shameful?

I'm going to make a thread right now to expose GAF to your shamefulness. I hope you will atone for your crimes against Shenmue.

Coffee Dog · Oct 6, 2015

godelsmetric said:
If you can point to the place where I said that I thought Sony were funding the game...

RIght about here

godelsmetric said:
Put it this way; there's a difference between 'all and only the money accrued from Kickstarter and other donation platforms will be used on games development', and 'the Kickstarter campaign was a way to gauge public interest in Shenmue III and other, more significant sources of funding will be secured on the back of its success (or lack thereof)'.

Unless, of course, you're implying that yu suzuki is going to come across a significant source of funding that isn't sony or kickstarter. Great on him if so!

[edit] So, then, you're saying that the developers lied when they said there were additional sources of funding. Okay.

There are additional sources of funding. They are just incredibly minor. This has been stated by multiple people.

Septic360 · Oct 6, 2015

Windom Earle said:
Maybe you could publish it then? Suzuki forgot asking Sony/MS, etc.

Maybe I will? And I'll have blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget publishing shenmue.

All Im saying is that the way this is being funded is unfortunate. It sucks but Kickstarter is what breathed life into it I guess.

Also Adam Boyes' response in that video is hardly strong.

Windom Earle · Oct 6, 2015

axisofweevils said:
That's what is weird to me.

Sony knew this project was a big enough megaton to get everyone hyped at E3. They devoted stage time to it. Why, then, did they not fund the $10m themselves? All the negativity would have gone in an instant. If they're already paying significant $ towards the game, why not another $10m?

The PS4 is outselling everything in sight. Sony are making bank. The fact they weren't willing to put their money where their mouth was suggests something shady.

With no KS, there would have been zero bad publicity. No Mr. HighonDrugs. No "We are the most successful gaming KS in history but we want more money from Paypal users". Hell, they could have still sold Shenmue 3 merchandise. It would be pure hype.

TLR Sony are a multi-billion company with the most successful console this gen. Why then did they need fans to stump up $10m in order to #SaveShenmue in the first place?

Because Shenmue is a highly risky and unproven IP. Sony doesn't have money to burn. This kickstarter was a great idea to gauge interest, it was just not executed very well.

Septic360 said:
Maybe I will? And I'll have blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget publishing shenmue.

All Im saying that the way this is being funded is unfortunate. It sucks but Kickstarter is what breathed life into it I guess.

Also Adam Boyes' response in that video is hardly strong.

Sounds good, I hope you go through with it.

I agree with you by the way, I think we all would prefer a rich budget for the game.

Asriel · Oct 6, 2015

Spyder_Monkey said:
The answer is straightforward: If it didn't reach the goal, the game wouldn't happen. It's a fan funded game with no involvement from anyone else but some marketing and good PR. This shit literally takes 30 seconds of Googling.

Apharmd said:
And I don't see why they should be questioning that. As a die-hard Shenmue fan, it's a very dumb business move to finance Shenmue III. The brand is pretty dang toxic and has consistently shown itself to be a leader in losing money. This isn't TLOU or a Final Fantasy, it's a SEGA flagship title that has proven to be a financial bomb time and time again.

And herein lies the problem.

marrec · Oct 6, 2015

godelsmetric said:
For a AAA game in 2015 when the previous entries cost tens of millions of dollars over a decade ago?

[edit] To be fair we have no idea of the scope of the game yet.

The expected scope is "Shenmue 3" which carries with it the promise of a sequel to a groundbreaking series that was ahead of it's time in graphics and gameplay. 6M is a scary number when compared to those expectations.

twobear · Oct 6, 2015

Coffee Dog said:
RIght about here

So, weird obsession with Sony again. Got it.

Apharmd · Oct 6, 2015

Spaghetti said:
I'm going to write using proper punctuation for once, to show you that I mean it.

What Shenmue 3 has shown me, is that the dividing line between message board poster and video game journalist is a lot narrower than anybody ever thought.

Eurogamer's recent article is really great. It is. It tells the story of a game developer icon emerging from a decade in the background. Revitalised by his fans, a creative given back his medium to work in. Someone who has recovered their purpose in life.

But the headline is of course "I could do with a bit more money!"

A single quote, from a very small part of the article. There's a great story in the article as a whole, there truly is. Sadly, that story has been sacrificed for clicks.

They don't want you to read about a man who is enriched by the support of fans and looking to pay them back with something they've wanted for so long. They want you to read about this imaginary greedy man rubbing his hands to get your money.

Because outrage gets page views. Even if there's nothing there to be outraged about. And so the headline gets passed around, and people think that's the whole story. Then you get awful opinion pieces like Ben Kuchera's. His baffling, weird, confusing opinion piece where you can't figure out what the point is, besides a character assassination on Yu Suzuki for purposes unknown.

Some information about Shenmue 3 has been confusing. Some quotes taken out of context, some information that wasn't immediately clarified. The campaign wasn't perfect, the fans know that better than anybody.

What's awful is that the misinformation continues to spread, even after issues have been clarified. Despite best efforts of fans who have been following Shenmue 3's development closer than pretty much anybody in the games media. When we get annoyed or angry that a journalist has cited their own opinions about it as fact, or just disappointed us with a poor title choice like Eurogamer did, suddenly we're 'outraged fanboys' and Twitter post fodder for some game journalists to sneer at.

I've seen Shenmue called a sacred cow. It's anything but. Shenmue has been openly ridiculed for years and years. Sometimes for valid reasons, and sometimes just because. It's only in the last couple of years we've seen articles like the great Guardian piece where the writer looked past the meme-bait voice acting and reputation for being 'boring walking simulator' to find a game they really liked, even without any nostalgic factor on their part.

People like Colin Moriarty writing the game off three months into development is just dumb. Nobody doubts making Shenmue 3 is a monumental task, but Yu Suzuki is a video game icon that this industry owes huge amounts to. Just as much as Miyamoto and others.

Yu Suzuki seems revitalised, energised, and creatively refreshed. That's something to be excited about. An industry great, stripped of his old superstar status, but given new purpose by his fans. It's a lot of pressure, but I definitely think he can handle it.

But nobody wants to read about that, right?

Great writeup. Thank you, Spaghetti.

diffusionx · Oct 6, 2015

Krejlooc said:
$6 million isnt a shoestring budget.

You just keeo jumping from one bunk concern to the next.

Do you realize how expensive games are these days?

$6 million might be a lot of money, but you can't make, say, a new Iron Man movie with it.

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