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Strategic Butt Coverings - Tropes vs Women in Video Games

L

Lime

Member
Reminds of a thread I made some time ago:

There's so many butt-posing women in film/game/comic marketing material

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Seriously, this is something that's so prevalent. I know, sex sells and so on, but this is like the blue/orange color palette, except with women having twisted deformed backs showing their butts:

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just like the blue/orange palette trend, it's really jarring when you see it in so much stuff. And it's a kind of ridiculous pose if you think about it.
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E

EdwardTeach

Member
She has knocked it out the box again.

Chloe's ass in uncharted was too much, really provocative and profoundly disturbing. Female character's should dress more conservatively like the grunge maidens in life is strange. And enough with characters like Lara croft wearing bikini bottoms or swimsuits when they go swimming they should be wearing shorts like men.
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
SkeptiMism said:
I'll admit I haven't watched that many of her videos, but I don't think she thinks like that. I'm pretty sure it's just about that it's so frequent and imbalanced.
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I'm just talking about her thoughts on this video, since she outright says she doesn't think the solution is to sex up more male characters, and only encourages devs not to sex up female characters.

I think we need more sexy man butts, and less sexy female butts. We need sexy butt parity, but it shouldn't be wall to wall sexy butts in every game. It should be a minority of games.

She often brings out Lollipop Chainsaw as an example (and I get why, absolutely) but that's the sort of game we want to keep. Something which is overtly what it is, there if you want it. The problem is that almost every female protagonist in gaming presents like a baboon, and almost no male characters do.
 
G

Golnei

Member
KeigoNiwa said:
Also, in general, I would argue that most women wear clothing that makes their bodies look appealing where as most men wear clothing that is comfortable to maneuver in. Obviously there are exceptions, but I just feel like some of the character designs that are on offer is just based around typical fashion trends and not so much on, how can I emphasize or cover up this character's body.
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That's the entire problem - designers and developers are uncritically repeating that cultural standard of men being functional and women being decorative instead of questioning or playing around with it; which leads to (and is a symptom of) both creative stagnation and an environment/industry hostile to alternate viewpoints.

Kinsei said:
What? If then you really think that's the case then you've been really affected by the over sexualization of women in the media. There are a ton of really sexy asses on men out there.
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Men can't have "sexy asses". The male ass just isn't built that way. It's simple biology.
 
G

Greddleok

Member
I'd rather keep the girl butts and put some man ass in there too. Stop trying to cover up people, let's just make everyone sexy.
 
L

Lime

Member
CryptiK said:
I just can't this video is awful, It's as if she hasn't played Arkham City look at Nightwing for crying out loud, or even Batmans Alt costumes and then goes on to cherry pick Third Person shooters that don't show lower half female or not. And the point on Beyond Good and Evil... Wuuuuut.
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eh Catwoman is super duper sexualized. Throw in Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy as well. The Arkham games are not the hill you want to die on.
 
D

Dicer

Banned
Male butts are not de-emphasized, guys just have smaller/flatter asses...

Yeah there are some decent examples, but some reaching here as well.
 
E

Ekai

Member
Memorabilia said:
Lol Not sure if serious. It's almost as if people actually believe that sex appeal is inherently bad and women who enjoy flaunting it are somehow rare like unicorns.
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That's not at all what they are arguing. No one has said sex appeal is bad. What they are responding to is your belief that women dress the way they do to please you. We dress for ourselves first and foremost. Just how self-centered are you? Yea, we like to look good. That doesn't mean we're constantly looking to please you. Another factor for this is that women's clothing itself is designed to be light, form-fitting, etc. it's hard to avoid that in the first place. But yea, we totally exist to please you.

CryptiK said:
ME Series, Fallout Series, Elder Scrolls Series, GTA, The Entire Metal Gear Series, Even though she uses Uncharted as an example, there is no butt covering in that series, Just Cause Series, Wife Beater Max Payne from 3, As said before Nightwing in the Arkhamverse(hell in AK Batgirl has a Cape covering her ass). I can list more, but then I'd be doing what she is and cherry picking, the only point that I can say I completely agree with is the Cover Art(Not including Beyond Good and Evil).
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GTA and Metal Gear rarely pronounce the male protagonists rear. Same goes for Elder Scrolls series really. Fallout has recently but it's one of the few examples of a prominent male ass in gaming to be perfectly honest.

Uncharted she literally explained in the video about the lack of emphasization on the butt. Just Cause is the same as Uncharted and she covered that as well. As is Max Payne really. Nightwing is another of a rare example along with FO4.

There is a massive difference in having a butt there (which is the case in almost all male designs that don't try to hide the butt) and designing it specifically in a way meant to entice and dehumanize a person.

Memorabilia said:
But...I like butts.

Not sure I see the problem here. Art imitates (and sometimes exaggerates) life. On a daily basis, I see far more women than men wearing tight/form-fitting clothing. Praise God for yoga pants.
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Women are not wearing the clothes they do to please you. At least not nearly as often as you seem to imagine.
 
I

inky

Member
Memorabilia said:
Lol Not sure if serious. It's almost as if people actually believe that sex appeal is inherently bad and women who enjoy flaunting it are somehow rare like unicorns.
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I was being facetious. Of course women like wearing yoga pants to show off their butts, but that doesn't mean it's why they do it first and foremost, nor should be expected to be looked at and judged on it all the time.

I'm also pretty sure women ogle male butts in low cut jeans or tight pants just as often.
 
F

Fencedude

Member
Jonneh3003 said:
tumblr_nlp7u57n441ri7rfho1_500.gif


Womens butts are sexier. If that were a male character in the GIF it wouldn't be anywhere near as appealing, at least not in my opinion. I don't think it's necessary for this to be a staple of a character or for certain cut scenes to focus on the buttocks but there's a reason male characters don't flaunt their butts often. MGS4 gave everyone a great butt but is that the solution? Maybe, people like butts.
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Look thats a wonderful butt but that scene really isn't necessary at all.
 
G

Grover

Banned
anita pointed out alot her dislike of extremely form fitting cloths on women's butts, but if anything Jade's butt on the cover repels the denim and she still called it out

if that was a male on the cover doing the same pose i doubt Anita would classify it as objectifying

EDIT: just read lime's post, wow, they're always twisting woman around wtf, how can their asses and faces be pointed in the same direction lmao
 
H

Huw_Dawson

Member
IvorB said:
But men in video games are often not wearing everyday fashion so that's moot really. She discussed specific examples of male characters wearing skin-tight, form-fitting clothing yet the butt is still de-emphasised.
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That isn't necessarily proof, fwiw - it's good artistic practice to not give male characters big bums - it's to do with readability (and in many cases art and design being based off of ideal anatomy).

Good topic for a video. My only beef with Anita was over her very first vid - chivalry and gender politics is very complex - but it seems like a lot of her videos following have prompted smart discussion, even if she has a bit of a hackish way at least at the start of communicating a point.
 
M

Menome

Member
PinballRJ said:
I was 17 when I graduated high school
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This is the advanced-level side of things though. Not 'normal' high-school. I do get confused with the American system, but the point stands: She is 18 at the beginning of the game and therefore could have been sexualised if the developers wanted to do so and thankfully they decided not to and give us great character development instead.
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
Dicer said:
Male butts are not de-emphasized, guys just have smaller/flatter asses...
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What's this nonsense? The kind of guys that many woman find attractive don't have small flat asses at all, but tight and shapely muscular ones.

Loads of women don't have the sort of asses that female game characters tend to have, but designers instead give them the *idealized* butt as picked by what men find attractive. It is totally possible to give male characters the kind of butts that women find attractive... however prevalent either is in the real world.
 
M

Memorabilia

Member
Ekai said:
That's not at all what they are arguing. No one has said sex appeal is bad. What they are responding to is your belief that women dress the way they do to please you. We dress for ourselves first and foremost. Just how self-centered are you? Yea, we like to look good. That doesn't mean we're constantly looking to please you.



GTA and Metal Gear rarely pronounce the male protagonists rear. Same goes for Elder Scrolls series really. Fallout has recently but it's one of the few examples of a prominent male ass in gaming to be perfectly honest.

Uncharted she literally explained in the video about the lack of emphasization on the butt. Just Cause is the same as Uncharted and she covered that as well. As is Max Payne really. Nightwing is another of a rare example along with FO4.

There is a massive difference in having a butt there (which is the case in almost all male designs that don't try to hide the butt) and designing it specifically in a way meant to entice and dehumanize a person.



Women are not wearing the clothes they do to please you. At least not nearly as often as you seem to imagine.
Click to expand...

People who argue the nonsense you're arguing here apparently have a bad habit of putting words in others mouths and setting up straw man arguments based on false assumptions.

inky said:
I was being facetious. Of course women like wearing yoga pants to show off their butts, but that doesn't mean it's why they do it first and foremost, nor should be expected to be looked at and judged on it all the time.

I'm also pretty sure women ogle male butts in low cut jeans or tight pants just as often.
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Hehe Yeah, I didn't see the "what?" you added on way below your initial post until after I responded... Wasn't sure what to think. I'm kinda slack-jawed at people who seem to live in some sort of alternate universe where all women are militant feminist nuns who have sapped all sexuality out of their interactions with men on a daily basis and take offense at everything which might bring attention to their naughty bits. It's truly astonishing how little separates these people from extremely religious prudes.
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
Memorabilia said:
People who argue the nonsense you're arguing here seem to have a bad habit of putting words in my mouth and setting up straw man arguments based on false assumptions.
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Let me try putting some words in your mouth.

"I don't want to respond to any of your points, ergo I am going to wave my hands around and use big words instead."

Huw_Dawson said:
That isn't necessarily proof, fwiw - it's good artistic practice to not give male characters big bums - it's to do with readability (and in many cases art and design being based off of ideal anatomy).
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Good artistic practice as decided by who?
 
E

Ekai

Member
Memorabilia said:
People who argue the nonsense you're arguing here seem to have a bad habit of putting words in my mouth and setting up straw man arguments based on false assumptions.
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You literally argued that women wear the clothing they do to please you. I'm not making a strawman of you. I'm disgusted with your actual comments. It's not nonsense to suggest that women wear clothing first and foremost for reasons other than to make you happy. It's not nonsense to suggest that we have humanity beyond your debasing of us.
 
L

Lights and Waves

Member
Jonneh3003 said:
tumblr_nlp7u57n441ri7rfho1_500.gif


Womens butts are sexier. If that were a male character in the GIF it wouldn't be anywhere near as appealing, at least not in my opinion. I don't think it's necessary for this to be a staple of a character or for certain cut scenes to focus on the buttocks but there's a reason male characters don't flaunt their butts often. MGS4 gave everyone a great butt but is that the solution? Maybe, people like butts.
Click to expand...

Yeah, because straight men dominate the video game industry and they refuse to throw gay men/women a bone. I mean Jesus, the internet had a meltdown when Ryu's shirtless costume was revealed. That should be a clue as to how one-sided the sexualization of characters works.

Edit: Meltdown = good = orgasm enducing
 
D

Dicer

Banned
plagiarize said:
What's this nonsense? The kind of guys that many woman find attractive don't have small flat asses at all, but tight and shapely muscular ones.

Loads of women don't have the sort of asses that female game characters tend to have, but designers instead give them the *idealized* butt as picked by what men find attractive. It is totally possible to give male characters the kind of butts that women find attractive... however prevalent either is in the real world.
Click to expand...

Instead males have the "body" which is portrayed just as much in the way they are shot for covers in games and movies, large muscular chests in some sort of flexing stance crotch jutted out ever so slightly.... it works both ways.

Out of shape guys are comic relief, shapely men are the sex factor

In any of those examples the women had shapely asses but not OMG Becky look at her butt asses, yeah the hip sway might be a bit over the top but so is every males physique.

And lol @ Batman, wearing a cape to cover his ass, Wayne industries has some cool tech.
 
G

Golnei

Member
plagiarize said:
Good artistic practice as decided by who?
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As decided by experienced animation professionals, presumably. Especially in games, you can't have an enormous ass taking up space on a player character and obscuring the movement of their legs - that's why absolutely no third person action games give their protagonists prominent asses.
 
Johnny Cage In The Shower

Johnny Cage In The Shower

Member
Maybe I am not the expert in this but, is it necessary to put emphasis on the male character's butt to sexualize them?

I know some men/women who love "sexy butts" on men, but in general I would assume to sexualize a male figure you would start with broad shoulders, chest, six pack, biceps, the whole "buff" muscle, fit guy image, which I think most if not all male protagonists in gaming have. They even make male characters crotch quite bulgy as well, see Solid Snake and Batman.

So I donno, male characters in gaming seem to be just as sexualized but in a different manner than emphasis on the butt. Or rather... emphasis on the "tits and ass" A terminology used to describe the body parts of a woman rather than man, as far as I know.
 
L

Lime

Member
Jonneh3003 said:
tumblr_nlp7u57n441ri7rfho1_500.gif


Womens butts are sexier. If that were a male character in the GIF it wouldn't be anywhere near as appealing, at least not in my opinion. I don't think it's necessary for this to be a staple of a character or for certain cut scenes to focus on the buttocks but there's a reason male characters don't flaunt their butts often. MGS4 gave everyone a great butt but is that the solution? Maybe, people like butts.
Click to expand...

This scene and its female character, along with the sexist statements by the two developers during that Q&A, is why I'm severely put off by FFXV and most likely won't be buying and playing it.

Fine if some people like this, but this is just dumb and eye-rolling to me.
 
E

Ekai

Member
Golnei said:
As decided by experienced animation professionals, presumably. Especially in games, you can't have an enormous ass taking up space on a player character and obscuring the movement of their legs - that's why absolutely no third person action games give their protagonists prominent asses.
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...Have you played a lot of third person action games? There;s loads of prominent butts on female protagonists in those games.
 
K

kaioshade

Member
Lights and Waves said:
Yeah, because straight men dominate the video game industry and they refuse to throw gay men/women a bone. I mean Jesus, the internet had a meltdown when Ryu's shirtless costume was revealed. That should be a clue as to how one-sided the sexualization of characters works.
Click to expand...

Correct me if im wrong, wasnt the reaction to that costume positive. The fact it was dubbed Hot Ryu suggests so.

Again, please correct me if im wrong.
 
F

FunkyDealer

Banned
If we were to have equality, I'd rather we sexualised all butts, rather than none.

Some games do take it to an unnecessary extreme though.
 
M

maquiladora

Member
Golnei said:
Men can't have "sexy asses". The male ass just isn't built that way. It's simple biology.
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Hahaha, developers just can't help but focus the virtual camera on a female butt that they've dressed in tight/revealing clothing and placed in suggestive poses.... because of simple biology. Of course!
 
H

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
Good video. I never even noticed the strategic butt covering thing, lol.

PinballRJ said:
Life is Strange is a bad example because she's in high school, if they did sexualize her it would be gross and illegal
Click to expand...

Doesn't seem to stop Japan.
 
E

Ekai

Member
Johnny Cage In The Shower said:
Maybe I am not the expert in this but, is it necessary to put emphasis on the male character's butt to sexualize them?

I know some men/women who love "sexy butts" on men, but in general I would assume to sexualize a male figure you would start with broad shoulders, chest, six pack, biceps, the whole "buff" muscle, fit guy image, which I think most if not all male protagonists in gaming have. They even make male characters crotch quite bulgy as well, see Solid Snake and Batman.

So I donno, male characters in gaming seem to be just as sexualized but in a different manner than emphasis on the butt. Or rather... emphasis on the "tits and ass" A terminology used to describe the body parts of a woman rather than man, as far as I know.
Click to expand...

That's more of a man's power fantasy than something women are going to find attractive en mass. Some will like it but male power fantasies that people think count as titillation for women are common in gaming.
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
Dicer said:
Instead males have the "body" which is portrayed just as much in the way they are shot for covers in games and movies, large muscular chests in some sort of flexing stance crotch jutted out ever so slightly.... it works both ways.

Out of shape guys are comic relief, shapely men are the sex factor

In any of those examples the women had shapely asses but not OMG Becky look at her butt asses, yeah the hip sway might be a bit over the top but so is every males physique.

And lol @ Batman, wearing a cape to cover his ass, Wayne industries has some cool tech.
Click to expand...

You're confusing male power fantasy with what women find attractive. If you think it is uncommon for woman to like a man with a shapely muscular butt I don't know what to say to you.
 
J

Jebusman

Banned
Alright, so let's lay it all down:

1. There should probably be less sexy butt poses for women.

2. But (butt) they should still be allowed to exist in some form because creative freedom, artistic license, etc.

3. There can (and should?) probably be more sexy butt poses for men.

Am I missing anything here? Admittedly I didn't watch the video because I'm at work, but while I doubt Anita agrees entirely with #2 or #3, it seems like the reasonable compromise to both bettering female representation in games while reducing the amount of sexual explotation, but not outright removing or denying the ability for this to exist, and increasing the amount of equal representation for that kind of stuff overall.

Because I can agree to the idea that we should have "less" of that, but I wouldn't sign up to the notion that it shouldn't exist at all.
 
G

Golnei

Member
kaioshade said:
Correct me if im wrong, wasnt the reaction to that costume positive. The fact it was dubbed Hot Ryu suggests so.

Again, please correct me if im wrong.
Click to expand...

That might be their point - a simple shirtless costume had such a dramatic (positive) reaction because of how lopsided the balance is.
 
T

tengiants

Member
My wife loves the xenoblade x male avatars butt lol. First time she's ever commented on something like that.

Butt service is getting better maybe.
 
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