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F4r0_Atak · Mar 31, 2016

The Praiseworthy said:
The rumors says that there will be games on the PS4K that runs better than the PS4... but still both systems are getting the same games... right?

Yes.

The Praiseworthy said:
For example GOW4.... the developers will take advantage of the new PS4K, but they will also make it run on the original PS4 with some sacrifices... right?

Yes, but I honestly see the sacrifices to only affect the fps of the games, not their actual look (ok, maybe not with Ubisoft's games...) How can devs claim that their engine are optimized for consoles? (for example: The Division engine performed better than Unity/Syndicate's engine and had partially customizable settings on consoles too.)

The Praiseworthy said:
SO... does that mean when GOW4 release.. it will have two versions one for the PS4K and another one for the original PS4 physically and digitally? because you can't adjust the setting from the console itself like PC.. it's different on consoles than PC the game itself is adjusted already for the console hardware.

Is that possible?

No. It won't have two different versions. It will be the same disc/digital game. It will just run differently depending of your hardware. Like how it runs differently on PC if you keep the default settings of the game. Depending of your system's specs, you will usually get different levels of performances.

SmiteOfHand · Mar 31, 2016

kabel said:
Yeah the will need a patch for 30FPS -> 60FPS.

But games with 23-28ish FPS will run at locked 30 with the PS4K, because the 30FPS is already a target on the normal PS4.

That is an interesting point, although for games using the PS4 hardware profile, ie. have not been patched, they may underclock the GPU or artificially limit it in some way just to assure 100% compatibility. Complete speculation on my part, but will be interesting to find out as we learn more.

qa_engineer · Mar 31, 2016

Manu said:
"It was stated plainly and with no room for interpretation that there are developers that already have development kits for the PS4K and that they are making games that will directly target and take advantage of the higher specs of the PS4K. It was also stated that these games will in fact work for the PS4 but with considerable sacrifices made to performance."

I think that was a poorly translated or interpreted sentence. Doing something like that would spell the end for Sony.

SolarMystic · Mar 31, 2016

ShinUltramanJ said:
I never realized how inconceivable it is for people to continue enjoying what they have, once a shinier new box arrives.

Because the current box is not even 3 years old at this point.

biglittleps · Mar 31, 2016

Many people are missing that PS4k is $499 and PS4 is $299 (will get another $50 this holiday for sure and may be a a slim version ?). So you get what you pay and its not like PS4k is replacing the original PS4 at same price and offering significant hardware upgrade to screw early adopters (you are paying for the extra power, hope there will be a trade in program for existing users).

Auctopus · Mar 31, 2016

gofreak said:
The rumour in the OP says they would need to explicitly patch, otherwise will run the same as on the original.

I can't see a lot of developers going back to do this.

OléGunner · Mar 31, 2016

Manu said:
So when God of War 4 releases it will run like shit unless I buy a new console?

Way to make us feel like idiots for supporting you, Sony.

Probably not. The game will be a visual beast and perform great on the regular PS4.

SSM are also a really good technical studio (flawless track record all across Playstation) and would not fuck over the consumer base that will bank them the most cash, it's suicide.

SolidusDave · Mar 31, 2016

Peltz said:
It's amazing how easy it is to forget all of this over the past ten years. Xbox 360 was a beast when it came out. I'd nearly forgot how much value we got out of console specs in previous generations.

The PS3 was also sold with a 200+$ loss or something. People bitched all day about the price but the actual value you got was amazing.

I guess we should have known this would happen once they sold their consoles for (almost) profit at launch AND them being cheaper than last gen.
It's almost going the Wii way otherwise....

Mister Megative · Mar 31, 2016

I DO have one question, and forgive my ignorance, but.....what if you don't own a 4K television? Like, would this work on my 1080p projector?

RoadHazard · Mar 31, 2016

kabel said:
Yeah the will need a patch for 30FPS -> 60FPS.

But games with 23-28ish FPS will run at locked 30 with the PS4K, because the 30FPS is already a target on the normal PS4.

Not necessarily. The PS4K might behave exactly like the PS4 performance-wise when running unpatched games, with all the same performance issues, in order to avoid any possible compatibility issues.

Raide · Mar 31, 2016

BumRush said:
The only frustrating thing about this to me is that I might wait on some of the big releases to play them in a better state. There's no way with a job, wife and kid that I'll be able to play...say...FFXV (or insert any 50+ hour RPG) more than once. If it's going to play and look better on the advanced hardware (a big "if" since we know next to nothing yet), should I wait?

Playing better is a big question. In reality, outside of their VR solution, the .5 upgrade just means things will be shinier, they are not bringing gameplay/controller inovations with a .5 upgrade.

Mister Megative said:
I DO have one question, and forgive my ignorance, but.....what if you don't own a 4K television?

You will have 1080P content at higher framerates and will much prettier graphics. Its not just having a 4k resolution.

Moneal · Mar 31, 2016

Manu said:
"It was stated plainly and with no room for interpretation that there are developers that already have development kits for the PS4K and that they are making games that will directly target and take advantage of the higher specs of the PS4K. It was also stated that these games will in fact work for the PS4 but with considerable sacrifices made to performance."

which would mean it would run slower and at a reduced resolution compared to the ps4k. ps4k would run at 1080p 60fps ps4 run at 1080p 30fps or 900p variable frame rate above 30fps.

Carn82 · Mar 31, 2016

mrmickfran said:
Goddammit, I was just about to buy a PS4. Now I gotta wait.

Going by some comments in this thread, some PS4's have already been thrown into trashcans by angry GAFers; you can pick up one of those for free

Markoman · Mar 31, 2016

BumRush said:
The only frustrating thing about this to me is that I might wait on some of the big releases to play them in a better state. There's no way with a job, wife and kid that I'll be able to play...say...FFXV (or insert any 50+ hour RPG) more than once. If it's going to play and look better on the advanced hardware (a big "if" since we know next to nothing yet), should I wait?

Yup, patience is a virtue. Finding the sweet-spot between early adopting and waiting for too long will get you most enjoyment for your bucks.

F4r0_Atak · Mar 31, 2016

Manu said:
So when God of War 4 releases it will run like shit unless I buy a new console?

Way to make us feel like idiots for supporting you, Sony.

Who said it would run like shite of the standard PS4? Read the OP carefully. Sacrifices are most likely referring to FPS performances. They will most likely look the same.

SmokedMeat · Mar 31, 2016

Manu said:
"It was stated plainly and with no room for interpretation that there are developers that already have development kits for the PS4K and that they are making games that will directly target and take advantage of the higher specs of the PS4K. It was also stated that these games will in fact work for the PS4 but with considerable sacrifices made to performance."

Sacrifices in performance in relation a system that's twice as powerful. Guess what? There's considerable sacrifices made in your current PS4 games when compared to PC.

They're not going to make PS4 games run worse then they already do.

ArtHands · Mar 31, 2016

The Praiseworthy said:
Aha ok... thanks guys for clearing things up for me

Its also been done on the 3ds for years. Same copy of game, but it perform better on new 3DS. Its not a foreign concept

Latvian Hitman · Mar 31, 2016

SmiteOfHand said:
To be fair to the spirit of his question, however, if it were native 4k the possibility that game asset size would increase is likely. *Increase in that developers would be inclined to use higher resolution textures, for example.

An ultra res texture pack would be about the only possibility I can think of for increased file size- but even on PC there aren't nearly enough devs that go to the trouble. And when they do, you're talking about maybe 2-4 extra GB for those assets. And, like you say, it's moot anyway. The rumored specs for this new console aren't even in the ballpark for native 4K rendering for AAA games.

Carn82 · Mar 31, 2016

Auctopus said:
I can't see a lot of developers going back to do this.

me neither, my guess is only Sony 1st party games, and 'good guys' like CDPR.

The Omega Man · Mar 31, 2016

Watch the extra power being used for bells and Whistles while the new games stay at 30fps.

kabel · Mar 31, 2016

Mister Megative said:
I DO have one question, and forgive my ignorance, but.....what if you don't own a 4K television? Like, would this work on my 1080p projector?

Downscaled to 1080p or whatever res your tv has. Best antialiasing ever? Yes! XD

samn · Mar 31, 2016

F4r0_Atak said:
Who said it would run like shite of the standard PS4? Read the OP carefully. Sacrifices are most likely referring to FPS performances. They will most likely look the same.

'Run like shite' refers to FPS not image quality.

RoadHazard · Mar 31, 2016

Mister Megative said:
I DO have one question, and forgive my ignorance, but.....what if you don't own a 4K television? Like, would this work on my 1080p projector?

Most games (i.e. basically everything except simple indies) will still run at 1080p on this. A 2x GPU power increase isn't enough to quadruple the number of rendered pixels with maintained performance. Stuff that does run at 4K will obviously be downscaled to 1080p if that's the TV you've got, just like how you can use the PS4 with a 720p TV.

JustenP88 · Mar 31, 2016

"So this multi-plat game will run like shit on my PS4 unless I build a PC with a high-end GPU?"

Games have been "running like shit" on the PS4 since day 1. Where have you turkeys been all this time?

Natels · Mar 31, 2016

Manu said:
So when God of War 4 releases it will run like shit unless I buy a new console?

Way to make us feel like idiots for supporting you, Sony.

No it just means it will run better on a PS4K.

I think people are over reacting. If it was a PS5 it would mean exclusive PS5 titles. But it is not, the games will still run the same as if there was no PS4K

If you want better performance it's up to you.

SmokedMeat · Mar 31, 2016

SolarMystic said:
Because the current box is not even 3 years old at this point.

What do you do when you buy a car, and its redesigned the following year? How do you cope?

New TVs, new phones...how do you manage?

erlim · Mar 31, 2016

If I'm deadset on not buying a 4k TV, I wonder if ps4k will just run butter smooth.

F4r0_Atak · Mar 31, 2016

Feral Gingy said:
Is it safe to assume that we still won't be getting much if any natively 4K games? The improvements will be in fps, textures etc. right?

I don't want to buy a 4K TV just yet.

Don't expect native 4K games at that ridiculous price of 399$/499$. Even some high-end PC struggles to lock the fps at 4K.

nasanu · Mar 31, 2016

Manu said:
So when God of War 4 releases it will run like shit unless I buy a new console?

Way to make us feel like idiots for supporting you, Sony.

Why are so many people spouting this nonsense? The ps4 has the same power as it had before the existence of the 4.5, the game will look and perform the same as it always would have.

Of course they will have to make sacrifices, they will sacrifice to ps4 levels as all ps4 games have been and always will be.

I really don't get what people could possibly be thinking.

Mr. X · Mar 31, 2016

Deep Down not being dead is the real surprise.

F4r0_Atak · Mar 31, 2016

samn said:
'Run like shite' refers to FPS not image quality.

By fps, I mean instead of having a lock 30 fps we could get a lock 60 fps with a proper native res 1080p.

GlamFM · Mar 31, 2016

EloKa said:
Ah okay, so PS4K will be a open platform, with mods, you can OC your own SKU, chose your own hardware components by any manufacturer, get low digital prices and free multiplayer? Sweet. /s

All these comparisons between PS4K and PC are as good as the smartphone comparisons.

In the end you will most likely play exclusive games on the PS4 that were designed for a specific better performing console and therefore you will notice the downsides.

You could have said "It´s all about "graphics", framerates and resolution." for the PS3 -> PS4 jump as well. And as it turned out it was not the case.

This gap is not comparable to the PS3 to PS4 gap.

You are exaggerating.

Natels · Mar 31, 2016

The devs will probably go 30fps for both. I wish they would do like MGSV but the gap won't be that big I think

Elandyll · Mar 31, 2016

Manu said:
"It was stated plainly and with no room for interpretation that there are developers that already have development kits for the PS4K and that they are making games that will directly target and take advantage of the higher specs of the PS4K. It was also stated that these games will in fact work for the PS4 but with considerable sacrifices made to performance."

As compared to the PS4K.

The PS4 would never run a high end GoW4 in 1080p60 (just like it can't do UC4 in 1080p60, and I think we can agree it looks far from being "shit"), so it will still be 1080p30. The PS4K will probably be able to do 1080p60 (perhaps even a specific 2160p30 mode with decreased GFX), but again that's something the PS4 would NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO WHETHER THE PS4K WOULD EXIST OR NOT.

diablo900t · Mar 31, 2016

I game on a 1080p projector, and 4k projectors are insanely high right now. I know 4k TVs are coming down, but projectors are not.

For those "stuck" at 1080p for the time being, the only benefit to PS4k may be increased FPS and graphical fidelity in games, correct? Since we're not getting native 4k games, and they're being upscaled.

Raide · Mar 31, 2016

erlim said:
If I'm deadset on not buying a 4k TV, I wonder if ps4k will just run butter smooth.

We won't really know till the DF etc tests appear...if this rumour is true of course.

F4r0_Atak · Mar 31, 2016

Mr. X said:
Deep Down not being dead is the real surprise.

Is it the same engine though? (Panta Rhei)

RoadHazard · Mar 31, 2016

Elandyll said:
As compared to the PS4K.

The PS4 would never run a high end GoW4 in 1080p60 (just like it can't do UC4 in 1080p60, and I think we can agree it looks far from being "shit"), so it will still be 1080p30. The PS4K will probably be able to do 1080p60 (perhaps even a specific 2160p30 mode with decreased GFX), but again that's something the PS4 would NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO WHETHER THE PS4K WOULD EXIST OR NOT.

More likely than 1080p60 (which would typically require a lot more than just double the GPU performance) you'd still get 1080p30 but with higher "settings".

Feral Gingy · Mar 31, 2016

F4r0_Atak said:
Don't expect native 4K games at that ridiculous price of 399$/499$. Even some high-end PC struggles to lock the fps at 4K.

Good to know that this PS4K will be worth it at 1080P

The God · Mar 31, 2016

Mister Megative said:
The best part about all this? Regardless of what your personal opinion of it is, I can almost guarantee you that A: most people on here swearing off Sony and consoles forever will be there day one, and B: this thing is going to sell like crazy.

Anyone who thinks otherwise, especially on that last point, is deluding themselves.

This is going to flop if it's more expensive than the current PS4.

F4r0_Atak · Mar 31, 2016

diablo900t said:
I game on a 1080p projector, and 4k projectors are insanely high right now. I know 4k TVs are coming down, but projectors are not.

For those "stuck" at 1080p for the time being, the only benefit to PS4k may be increased FPS and graphical fidelity in games, correct? Since we're not getting native 4k games, and they're being upscaled.

This. People need to read this. It is upscaled to 4k res. Don't expect huge gap in performances... sigh. :/

gypsygib · Mar 31, 2016

I'd care much more about 60FPS games.

It's really the main reason I play 99% of my games on PC.

Ratros · Mar 31, 2016

Why is PS4K a bad idea? As long as they keep implementing forward compatibility for vanilla PS4 just right (720p/30fps on vanilla PS4, 1080p/60fps on PS4K maybe?), I don't see any problem.

RoadHazard · Mar 31, 2016

erlim said:
If I'm deadset on not buying a 4k TV, I wonder if ps4k will just run butter smooth.

Most likely it won't make any difference. I'm pretty sure the PS4 just downscales games to 720p if that's your TV, it doesn't actually render them at that resolution, so the performance doesn't change. The same almost certainly will apply to 4K -> 1080p (in the few games that run at that resolution, which won't be any graphically advanced AAA titles).

Daft Punk · Mar 31, 2016

Elandyll said:
As compared to the PS4K.

The PS4 would never run a high end GoW4 in 1080p60 (just like it can't do UC4 in 1080p60, and I think we can agree it looks far from being "shit"), so it will still be 1080p30. The PS4K will probably be able to do 1080p60 (perhaps even a specific 2160p30 mode with decreased GFX), but again that's something the PS4 would NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO WHETHER THE PS4K WOULD EXIST OR NOT.

said the sanest person in the room. I'm sad it took someone this long to to get this.

Curufinwe · Mar 31, 2016

The God said:
This is going to flop if it's more expensive than the current PS4.

$400 is the sweet spot.

F4r0_Atak · Mar 31, 2016

Feral Gingy said:
Good to know that this PS4K will be worth it at 1080P

If 60fps (at least locked 30 fps for some engine) becomes standard with these new systems while keeping the visual fidelity we have in this 3rd year of the cycle, people will jump on it if they show gameplay footage going back to back... :/

SolidusDave · Mar 31, 2016

JustenP88 said:
"So this multi-plat game will run like shit on my PS4 unless I build a PC with a high-end GPU?"

Games have been "running like shit" on the PS4 since day 1. Where have you turkeys been all this time?

That's not true at all. Maybe if you're in the 60fps-or-death camp.

Almost all games on PS4 are 1080p native and the majority has a solid 30 framerate. Some are even locked airtight.
We all like to bitch a lot in the DF threads but dropping a few frames in action sequences etc. isn't really bad at all nor do most even notice that.

The main fear is that 1080p@30fps won't be the standard for PS4 anymore. Maybe something like 900p@~25? Or worse?
Maybe that would be the case even w/o the existence of a PS4K. Maybe the power of the PS4K will only be used to make locked-30fps games run at 60fps.

But I think the first scenario is much more likely...

BumRush · Mar 31, 2016

Raide said:
Playing better is a big question. In reality, outside of their VR solution, the .5 upgrade just means things will be shinier, they are not bringing gameplay/controller inovations with a .5 upgrade.

If a PS4K patch makes it look nicer and run locked at 30, a lot of folks will have to balance whether that is worth waiting 6 months.

OsirisBlack · Mar 31, 2016

I got a bit more information today but I am trying to find out who all knows about it before posting.

Also the word "Sacrifices" is being blown out of proportion. There are sacrifices made when making a console version of a game as compared to a PC game or when making an XB1 game as compared to a PS4 game. Don't expect PS4 games to all of a sudden become shit just expect them to run better on PS4K. I would expect a game that is really pushing the graphics envelope to run at 1080p 60fps on PS4K while the same game might run at 900p 60/30fps on PS4. Just the way I took it.

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