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Large Youtubers Hide Ownership of CSGO Lottery Site

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TheYanger

Member
Except this is totally irrelevant to the point I was making. Steam currency is no more "actual money" than OW skins.

Yes, it is, you can't cash an overwatch skin out in any way whatsoever. You cannot trade an overwatch skin to blizzard in exchange for spacebucks that are used for actual goods and services. In fact, you cannot do a single thing with an overwatch skin except for use it.

EDIT: forgot to mention, they're also available completely free within the game.
 

Fat4all

Banned
You give Valve money and in exchange they give you a virtual item (Steam funds), which has no inherent value and cannot be traded for actual cash. You could just as easily argue that Overwatch skins are "real ass money" because money changes hands to get them. Valve doesn't have a vault full of Steam currency that they use to buy actual goods with.

They use the same system as pachinko balls.

Pachinko balls are not cash, but you do a double exchange to convert it to money. You exchange the balls for a proxy item, then go to a separate building to exchange them for cash.

The same is done with steam wallet money, and there are sites with explanations on how to do so with large amounts of steam money.
 
So this is why CSGO is popular? Fucking skins for a knife? No wonder Overwatch followed suit.

Never liked Tmarty, always seemed off.

To say CSGO blew up exclusively due to the skins would be unfair but it most certainly benefited from it.

57f2cfea717a4226b1a941834f51707c-650-80.jpg
 
It's a smart move, disgusting, but smart.

It's actually quite dumb. If he hadn't been the one to incorporate his CSGO site, there would be no story here. The opposite is also true. If he stated on day one he created a CSGO gambling site, there would be no story to tell either (unless he misleaded on the percentage of win rates while explaining his site).
 

Tripolygon

Banned
Nothing ever really goes away on the internet.
I was literally just watching it and it stopped playing right in the middle. I refreshed the youtube link thinking my internet was acting up and i was given that "video is private" message. I used google cache to download the video.
 
Is this what Valve is these days?

Anyone else feel sad?

It's pretty much the logical conclusion of TF2's mannconomy. Which is also stupid. (Handy converter to real life moneys)

Making items for TF2, Dota, and CSGO is easy money (Also consider that a lot of it is generated by the community these days), so I can't really begrudge Valve for moving to that model. It is disappointing, though, yeah. It's been easy enough to dismiss hats/skins/knives/whathaveyou as something of a joke (haha hat simulator 2) when people are spending their own money on them, but the addition of gambling aspects (beyond the crates) has always felt pretty gross to me, so it's nice to see this blow up.
 
Yes, it is, you can't cash an overwatch skin out in any way whatsoever. You cannot trade an overwatch skin to blizzard in exchange for spacebucks that are used for actual goods and services. In fact, you cannot do a single thing with an overwatch skin except for use it.

EDIT: forgot to mention, they're also available completely free within the game.

You cannot cash Steam currency out, either. It has no real-world value.

They use the same system as pachinko balls.

Pachinko balls are not cash, but you do a double exchange to convert it to money. You exchange the balls for a proxy item, then go to a separate building to exchange them for cash.

The same is done with steam wallet money, and there are sites with explanations on how to do so with large amounts of steam money.

It's also what you do with Chuck E. Cheese tickets. Note that this isn't considered illegal gambling in the US.
 

ahdurian

Member
Except this is totally irrelevant to the point I was making. Steam currency is no more "actual money" than OW skins.



You give money to Valve and they give you a good in exchange. Same as OW. In both cases, the good in question has no actual value and cannot be cashed in for actual money.

The profit they receive is in actual money payed out by Valve, not the purchaser.

you can spend money on Overwatch skins, sure.
but can you sell/trade them to other players? no.
That's a world of difference.
 

Fat4all

Banned
It's also what you do with Chuck E. Cheese tickets. Note that this isn't considered illegal gambling in the US.

Are you honestly being reductionist on pachinko gambling? Jesus.

You really don't have a point here, you can easily exchange steam money for real money.
 
Valve is just as guilty. A lot of the bots these sites used would often get banned and people would freak out about their skins being lost. What did Valve do? Whitelist those bots so that they could keep doing what they were doing and skins wouldn't be lost.

They say these skins have no value, so who cares if they're lost right?
 
The issue on valves part isn't the blind crates itself, the issue on valve parts is that they willingly and knowingly facilitate the gambling of items on other sites. All the items bet on these sites CSGO Lounge/Jackpot are only possible because Valve allows it to happen, through the use of steam accounts and the steam marketplace, the items that are being bet never leave valves "possession" they will always exist on Steams servers. It wouldn't be to difficult for valve to flag the high traffic bots that move the items from the users possession to the sites possession and put restrictions on those if they were serious in limiting/stopping these gambling sites. Again there might not be any legal wrongdoing here on valves part but I do hope this particular case brings attention to what is happening and convinces valve to address the issue.

That's besides the point, I'm talking about the part in the video that Ethan compares csgo crates to loopholed gambling.
 

TheYanger

Member
Can you convert $20 Steam currency into $20 real money (without violating Valve's EULA and risking a permaban)?

Doesn't actually matter, you can convert it into a fairly close value to 20 bucks, valve has it backed with 20 actual dollars in their bank account, in order to spend on your behalf for brand new goods as you want them. The 'eula' doesn't really have anything to do with any of this if valve never enforces that part, and they don't.

That involves using outside methods like Paypal payments, which as far as I know, Valve either don't recognize, or encourage against using.

Hence the wink and nod. They don't discourage it at all either. they don't care. They don't give a single fuck if you cash out, because to them the money is theirs already. When you cash out, using any site, they're then using your valve spacebucks to buy things like keys (which valve again gets another percentage of them doing this), and then sells the keys on something like g2a at a slightly cheaper value. Valve doesn't care about that part because it's a key they ALREADY SOLD.
 

That's against Steam's EULA and people can and have been permabanned for it.

Are you honestly being reductionist on pachinko gambling? Jesus.

You really don't have a point here, you can easily exchange steam money for real money.

You can easily trade Chuck E. Cheese junk for real money, too. Of course, you can't do it at the venue itself.

It's the same deal with Steam money. You can exchange it, but you have to do it through third-party sites and it's against Valve's ToS. What Valve's doing is not illegal, sorry.
 

hamchan

Member
It's also what you do with Chuck E. Cheese tickets. Note that this isn't considered illegal gambling in the US.

Pachinko isn't considered illegal gambling in Japan too. That doesn't change that it actually is gambling lol. Valve knows that what they do is gambling and they're fine with it since they're making a shitload of money doing it and encouraging it.

I know I've spent $100+ on these CSGO boxes and I'm fine with that, but then I'm a proper age adult. I can only imagine how many kids are getting the gambling itch through this game but it's probably not insignificant.
 

Fat4all

Banned
You can easily trade Chuck E. Cheese junk for real money, too. Of course, you can't do it at the venue itself.

It's the same deal with Steam money. You can exchange it, but you have to do it through third-party sites and it's against Valve's ToS. It's not illegal, sorry.

I never said it was illegal, I said it was possible.
 
Pachinko isn't considered illegal gambling in Japan too. That doesn't change that it actually is gambling lol. Valve knows that what they do is gambling and they're fine with it since they're making a shitload of money doing it and encouraging it.

I know I've spent $100+ on these CSGO boxes and I'm fine with that, but then I'm a proper age adult. I can only imagine how many kids are getting the gambling itch through this game but it's probably not insignificant.

I never said it was illegal, I said it was possible.

Well, yeah. We're talking about Valve getting sued and the government cracking down on crates, though, not the actual morals behind this.
 

MUnited83

For you.
Doesn't actually matter, you can convert it into a fairly close value to 20 bucks, valve has it backed with 20 actual dollars in their bank account, in order to spend on your behalf for brand new goods as you want them. The 'eula' doesn't really have anything to do with any of this if valve never enforces that part, and they don't.

Again, same as fucking Disney bucks or Chuck E.Cheese tickers.
 

TheYanger

Member
That's against Steam's EULA and people can and have been permabanned for it.



You can easily trade Chuck E. Cheese junk for real money, too. Of course, you can't do it at the venue itself.

It's the same deal with Steam money. You can exchange it, but you have to do it through third-party sites and it's against Valve's ToS. What Valve's doing is not illegal, sorry.

If valve was actually permabanning people for cashing out, you wouldn't see it as basically the primary way people interact with CS:go.

Well, yeah. We're talking about Valve getting sued and the government cracking down on crates, though, not the actual morals behind this.

Pachinko sin't illegal in JAPAN. It's illegal here.
 
You give money to Valve and they give you a good in exchange. Same as OW. In both cases, the good in question has no actual value and cannot be cashed in for actual money.

The profit they receive is in actual money payed out by Valve, not the purchaser.
Which would then mean that there is a real world monetary amount that exists against your steam fund amount. I don't understand the point you're trying to make.
 

hamchan

Member
Well, yeah. We're talking about Valve getting sued and the government cracking down on crates, though, not the actual morals behind this.

Well laws can change and be introduced. They won't be sued but I can certainly see a government caring enough about the money Valve is making from their gambling system to add extra taxes and regulations on top of them in order to get a piece of that pie.
 
If valve was actually permabanning people for cashing out, you wouldn't see it as basically the primary way people interact with CS:go.

Literally every thread on CS:GO you run through claiming that the only reason people play it is for gambling skins, as though the mere concept that somebody may enjoy something besides Overwatch is too foreign for you to understand. Just saying.

ANYWAYS, Valve doesn't have teams of people trawling websites to ban people. But they can and have done it, and they certainly don't sanction it like you imply.
 

collige

Banned
If valve was actually permabanning people for cashing out, you wouldn't see it as basically the primary way people interact with CS:go.

I don't think it's the primary way people interact with CSGO and I would be interested in seeing your source on that. My guess would be that the vast majority of people who interact with the CSGO market place contain their actions to Valve's ecosystem and end up using their Steam wallets to buy more games or crates/skins rather than going to dodgy 3rd party sites to get a couple of dollars in their Paypal accounts.
 

MUnited83

For you.
Pachinko sin't illegal in JAPAN. It's illegal here.

Since... uh, when exactly?

Literally every thread on CS:GO you run through claiming that the only reason people play it is for gambling skins, as though the mere concept that somebody may enjoy something besides Overwatch is too foreign for you to understand. Just saying.

ANYWAYS, Valve doesn't have teams of people trawling websites to ban people. But they can and have done it, and they certainly don't sanction it like you imply.
Yep. I still remember when he said that the ONLY REASON TO HAVE SKINS is gambling. LMAO.
 
If valve was actually permabanning people for cashing out, you wouldn't see it as basically the primary way people interact with CS:go.
Because at that point it's out of their control, they can't tell when someone trades a skin or item to someone else in order to cash it out through a Paypal payment, unless everyone were to start posting on the forums about how they just cashed out their keys or weapons. You can't hold them responsible for this specific action that takes place outside of their control. Sure, the trade system may be part of the Steam ecosystem, but it's impossible for them to tell the circumstances under which a trade is made.

Tons of people use the Marketplace within the Steam ecosystem, need some numbers to prove people cash items out enough to claim that's how they primarily interact with the game.

Hence the wink and nod. They don't discourage it at all either. they don't care. They don't give a single fuck if you cash out, because to them the money is theirs already. When you cash out, using any site, they're then using your valve spacebucks to buy things like keys (which valve again gets another percentage of them doing this), and then sells the keys on something like g2a at a slightly cheaper value. Valve doesn't care about that part because it's a key they ALREADY SOLD.
Sorry, just now I saw your reply to me on that post. I updated according to replies from others, it's actually against their ToS, meaning they do have a stance against it (and so there is no wink and nod here). What I just wrote right here ^ also applies to this.
 

Aretak

Member
This is the video that broke the story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IuXz-cux1M

It is funny seeing the difference between the comments from 5 days ago and the comments coming in now.
Tmartn's comments there (made nearly a week ago) come across even more slimy than the stuff that he's saying now.

First of all, it is not gambling. Some (most) sites can be classified as gambling, CSGOLotto is not.

Secondly, the site is meant to be played by people of age and legality. You have to confirm you are of age 3 times before you can play on the site. We are not responsible for people who lie. We are also working on other measures to enforce this more strictly.
Yes, I know about that. CSGOLotto is set up entirely differently than other sites, and does not meet the definition of gambling. I have spent hundreds of hours with a lawyer to ensure that is the case.

You are not a lawyer. I'm not either. Don't argue law in YouTube comments lol.
He basically confirms there that he knows what he was doing was encroaching on some super shady territory, but spent a lot of time with a lawyer finding loopholes to make the site "legal", which probably explains why he's still feeling so smug about it now. It'll certainly be interesting to see how that lawyer's advice holds up for him.
 
Have to put some blame on Valve as well. They've allowed these clowns to create websites like this. Valve has also allowed CSGO players to link their accounts to these shady sites, which they could block.
 

collige

Banned
He basically confirms there that he knows what he was doing was encroaching on some super shady territory, but spent a lot of time with a lawyer finding loopholes to make the site "legal", which probably explains why he's still feeling so smug about it now. It'll certainly be interesting to see how that lawyer's advice holds up for him.

Maybe for the operation of the site, but his recent actions have shown that he sure as shit didn't know what he was doing with this terrible ass marketing/scamming theme. I wouldn't be surprised if his entire operation gets the boot from Valve as part of the fallout from this.
 

PtM

Banned
Have to put some blame on Valve as well. They've allowed these clowns to create websites like this. Valve has also allowed CSGO players to link their accounts to these shady sites, which they could block.
Isn't that also a point of the lawsuit?

Goddamn, end of page.
 
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