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[boneyjangles]

Even the dog was ashamed.

Looks like that little turd E from entourage. This is a pretty gross crime for me, scamming children out of money via gambling, if it was for hundreds of dollars locally somewhere, there would be a shitstorm. This is what? Thousands? How many thousands? 50 grand? Hundreds of thousands? But the modernity and general weirdness of the whole thing obscures justice.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I'm slightly confused about this. Is the thing they've done wrong that they've targeted gambling at minors, or that they failed to disclosed that they owned it whilst promoting it? Because they seem like two entirely separate issues, and the OP seems to be referring to the latter whilst everyone in this thread is talking about the former.

 

[Scuffed]

At least their names and reputations are trash. Would have really liked to see some real punishment though.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

I'm slightly confused about this. Is the thing they've done wrong that they've targeted gambling at minors, or that they failed to disclosed that they owned it whilst promoting it? Because they seem like two entirely separate issues, and the OP seems to be referring to the latter whilst everyone in this thread is talking about the former.

Both.

 

[Krosia]

Looks like that little turd E from entourage. This is a pretty gross crime for me, scamming children out of money via gambling, if it was for hundreds of dollars locally somewhere, there would be a shitstorm. This is what? Thousands? How many thousands? 50 grand? Hundreds of thousands? But the modernity and general weirdness of the whole thing obscures justice.

Hundreds of thousands? You saw his house, his two jetskies, his cars? One of them is a Nissan GTR that costs six figures alone. They paid other youtubers up to 55k for advertising their website CSGO Lotto.

Nah, think in millions man.

At least their names and reputations are trash. Would have really liked to see some real punishment though.

They only lost the CSGO Lotto business. Their youtube channels have more subs than before all this happened. They still get invited to conventions or events, Tmartn is still receiving money from Activision for promoting Call of Duty. Nothing has changed for them, they just got very quickly very rich.

 

[Apathy]

They even rigged it iirc and they still won't get even a slap in the wrist. You gotta be fucking kidding me.

 

[Handy Fake]

Surely that's grounds for everyone hustled by them to claim compensation from them..?

 

[Imbarkus]

The trade is not done within the API.

The API only allows websites to verify that you have an account. It's intended to be used so a third party doesn't have to worry about storing login credentials themselves. The actual trades have nothing to do with it. Valve does ban bots for these gambling sites when they find them.

Almost every major player uses an API in the form of OpenID or some variation thereof. "Facebook Connect" is an example of a similar system. Google Sign-In is OpenID Connect, aka, OAuth2, which is a similar, but more complex and robust system. CSGO Lotto could have used any of these services and gotten the exact same functionality. Maybe we should shut down Twitter every time someone uses their API for shady reasons? Do you think Facebook polices the thousands of sites and apps that use theirs?

OpenID systems are just big players throwing smaller sites a bone by removing the hassle of registration with every website/service in the entire universe by letting people use one that they already have.

I'm afraid you're just telling me how there's no point blaming the API, as the mechanism for allowing item trading/selling for real world money, etc. etc. So what is the pipeline?

If "gaming" (gambling) regulators came in tomorrow and said "all this shit stops now, or you go to jail," what would Valve have to turn off?

 

[Abilidebob]

I'm afraid you're just telling me how there's no point blaming the API, as the mechanism for allowing item trading/selling for real world money, etc. etc. So what is the pipeline?

If "gaming" (gambling) regulators came in tomorrow and said "all this shit stops now, or you go to jail," what would Valve have to turn off?

Steam trading. Which stopping it would be, for all intents and purposes, a terrible thing for pretty much everyone.

 

[MUnited83]

I'm afraid you're just telling me how there's no point blaming the API, as the mechanism for allowing item trading/selling for real world money, etc. etc. So what is the pipeline?

If "gaming" (gambling) regulators came in tomorrow and said "all this shit stops now, or you go to jail," what would Valve have to turn off?

They wouldn't need to run off anything. It would be like blaming Chuck E Chesee for kids gambling with Chuck E Cheese money.

 

[Generalpsyduck]

Rich white person gets away with crime I'm SHOCKED!

 

[Whompa02]

they got...a slap on the wrist for this!? Fucking WHAT?!

 

[Imbarkus]

Steam trading. Which stopping it would be, for all intents and purposes, a terrible thing for pretty much everyone.

Only if you're vested in the F2P and micro-transaction economy there, right? Is that what people blame for preventing Half-Life 3?

Seriously, doesn't every other gaming digital store portal get by without these features?

They wouldn't need to run off anything. It would be like blaming Chuck E Chesee for kids gambling with Chuck E Cheese money.

If you could cash out Chuck E. Cheese money for real-world value or cash somewhere, then yeah.

I'm not even sure "cash out" is the determining line of what is gambling in the future, but let's not pretend that cashing out of Steam is not even possible.

 

[Abilidebob]

Only if you're vested in the F2P and micro-transaction economy there, right? Is that what people blame for preventing Half-Life 3?

Seriously, doesn't every other gaming digital store portal get by without these features?



If you could cash out Chuck E. Cheese money for real-world value or cash somewhere, then yeah.

I'm not even sure "cash out" is the determining line of what is gambling in the future, but let's not pretend that cashing out of Steam is not even possible.

Yes, they do get by without those features. And I hate that. I hate that I can't trade away my Hearthstone cards, that I can't give my friends a CoD item in exchange for a Rocket League car skin on consoles, that I have such small "control" over my digital items in other digital platforms. If you're saying that losing the option of trading my items is fine then I don't know what else to say.

 

[MUnited83]

Only if you're vested in the F2P and micro-transaction economy there, right? Is that what people blame for preventing Half-Life 3?

Seriously, doesn't every other gaming digital store portal get by without these features?



If you could cash out Chuck E. Cheese money for real-world value or cash somewhere, then yeah.

I'm not even sure "cash out" is the determining line of what is gambling in the future, but let's not pretend that cashing out of Steam is not even possible.

You can cash out Chuck E Cheese money, you just need to find someone willing to do so. And it's not like anyone can stop that transaction.

Also, i'd rather have ownership of my digital items and be able to trade them instead of stupidity like items you can't get rid of in CoD or whatever the hell else. Trading is a good thing.

 

[Imbarkus]

I mean, technically I don't disagree with you guys. I don't really use these features but I don't really begrudge you being able to, and yes, most systems can be abused, even Chuck E. Cheese money.

Regulation becomes a matter of scale and attention: becoming a blip on the radar; making headlines; becoming large enough to be a mark for laundering operations from shady outfits around the globe. No one gave a crap about the fantasy sports online betting exception until FanDuel and DraftKings rose up to become huge deals spreading around the advertising on the Bombcast. Bam! Court orders to stop.

So I suppose it will be incumbent on Valve to keep the problem controlled to the point that someone else doesn't step in. It's an envious position, being self-regulating, compared to being in a fully regulated industry. Let's hope they continue to appreciate it without further warnings.

 

[Compsiox]

I'm guessing the underlying reason that got them off was that this is a grey area. Lets get some regulations going on microtransactions and this other gambling crap.

 

[blastprocessor]

Man am annoyed about this how many kids got duped?

 

[Blam]

Wow ok this is pretty fucking stupid.

 

[malfcn]

Pathetic.

 

[Dr.Acula]

I wrote a blog post this year for the actual casino where I work, lamenting all this edge-case crap.

We're going to have to count on state regulators and oversight while we wait to see if the federal viewpoint ever recovers its leadership role.

I thought the first quarter of the article that was preamble about responsible gambling, adherence to state gaming law, and side-shots at rival casinos was pretty funny.

On to the meat of the article, it's interesting to see a casino's perspective as a potential rival in the skins scene. I never thought of the overlap w/r/t skins gamblers essentially being future potential casino-goers, and therefore being within a casino's demographic purview, but it makes sense.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Both.

I'm not really sure what's wrong with them not saying they own it. Isn't it like when fashion bloggers post a pair of shoes they got given or a celebrity bigs up a hotel they got a few night in? Surely the onus is on the customer to decide if they want to, in this case, partake in CS Go gambling?

 

[TheRedSnifit]

I'm afraid you're just telling me how there's no point blaming the API, as the mechanism for allowing item trading/selling for real world money, etc. etc. So what is the pipeline?

If "gaming" (gambling) regulators came in tomorrow and said "all this shit stops now, or you go to jail," what would Valve have to turn off?

Steam trading completely.

Seriously, doesn't every other gaming digital store portal get by without these features?

All those other portals get by, yes. They also have a fraction of Steam's userbase. Maybe there's a correlation there?

 

[Calabi]

The FTC just basically said "We're not here to enforce laws or anything, your on your own, fuck you all. Thank you very much".

 

[Yukinari]

Really sad that Ethan's excellent video from last year basically amounted to nothing despite all the evidence it compiled on these dickheads.

 

[Imbarkus]

I thought the first quarter of the article that was preamble about responsible gambling, adherence to state gaming law, and side-shots at rival casinos was pretty funny.

On to the meat of the article, it's interesting to see a casino's perspective as a potential rival in the skins scene. I never thought of the overlap w/r/t skins gamblers essentially being future potential casino-goers, and therefore being within a casino's demographic purview, but it makes sense.

Thanks. It was a bit out there for my boss, who had the opposite response as yours to the first quarter's quality versus the rest.

A bit of an experiment. Most casino content marketing I see is the lowest effort Google translate drivel, driving people to illegal overseas online betting portals. Most people in the U.S. don't really know that if they get busted for online gambling that it will pretty much rule them out for getting licensed to work in a casino anywhere.

in Britain and other areas this is all an even greater grey area since online gambling is legal.

Steam trading completely.

All those other portals get by, yes. They also have a fraction of Steam's userbase. Maybe there's a correlation there?

I have no idea PSN vs Steam, really, for current user count. Even so, correlation does not prove causation, and although item trading might be a popular feature, I think its overstating it to place Steam's popularity at the feet of it.

It might be more accurate to state that Valve faces potential huge user backlash in removing the feature, at this point, which is true. Although if it came to it, there's nothing like a cease-and-desist order in your hand to help explain why something is going away.

 

[shira]

Eurogamer

This is fucked.

Internet justice lol

 

[Mooreberg]

Imagine if every game with LootBoxes (acquirable with real money), was considered gambling, and automatically slapped with an AO rating.

Nobody would ship the games with it built in, they would just add it later, and obfuscate things with space bucks currencies.

But yeah, this whole story is pathetic. The only penality is shutting down a site that had no legal standing to exist in the first place.

 

[Imbarkus]

Heh this just came through the news wire, didn't know Dave & Buster's CEO's name is Stephen King lol

https://www.cdcgamingreports.com/dave-and-busters-ceo-to-discuss-integrated-resort-concepts-at-g2e/

Dave and Buster's CEO to discuss arcade-style gaming at G2E

Ever since the concept of so-called 'skill-based' gaming concepts emerged a few years back, there have been conversations surrounding how casino operators should go about transforming their casino floor into more of an adult-focused arcade room to attract a younger demographic. In October, the industry will get to hear directly from a man who has successfully built a continent-wide business based on doing just that: offering dynamic, skill-based and arcade-style family entertainment. Stephen King, chief executive officer of Dave and Buster's - the restaurant and entertainment chain which features an arcade-style gaming floor in every location, will give a keynote presentation to the 2017 Global Gaming Expo on October 4th at 9:00am....

 

[DxD]

Awful. Should be at least 3 yrs in jail in trying to promote and enable gambling addiction in kids.

 

[Mechanized]

Rich get richer, above the law. The world is trash.

 

[jasminlovesyoux]

Really shocked by this. I'd love to hear what their lawyers said and how they got away with it. So fucking stupid. It's quite obvious how corrupted this whole thing was.

What's up with the legal system. It's such a sham.

 

[Mooreberg]

Really shocked by this. I'd love to hear what their lawyers said and how they got away with it. So fucking stupid. It's quite obvious how corrupted this whole thing was.

What's up with the legal system. It's such a sham.

People in the public sphere of the legal profession do not usually have a great understanding of technology. It takes something as obvious as rossulbricht@gmail.com for bad actors to face legal consequences. And then when they do go after people, it is ridiculous shit like driving Aaron Schwartz to suicide over dissemination of academic articles. The only people who are going to be able to correct this stuff on a routine basis in the near term are platform holders like Google. But they seem too busy driving honest people to Twitch and producing Z grade movies for their subscription service.

 

[NoPiece]

People are disappointed because they had unrealistic expectations about what the FTC was doing. It was a very narrow investigation of three claims, all effectively related to false advertising.

False Claim of Independent Reviews

Deceptive Failure to Disclose Endorsers Were Owners and Officers

Deceptive Failure to Disclose Endorsers Were Paid

Nothing to do with gambling, nothing to do with fraud or rigging results, and it wouldn't be the FTC's role to investigate those things.

Actual complaint: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/1623184_csgolotto_complaint.pdf

 

[TheRedSnifit]

I have no idea PSN vs Steam, really, for current user count. Even so, correlation does not prove causation, and although item trading might be a popular feature, I think its overstating it to place Steam's popularity at the feet of it.

It might be more accurate to state that Valve faces potential huge user backlash in removing the feature, at this point, which is true. Although if it came to it, there's nothing like a cease-and-desist order in your hand to help explain why something is going away.

If PSN is bigger than Steam (which I frankly doubt), it'd be because you're locked into it if you want to play PS4 exclusives, not because of the quality of the service itself. When it comes to Steam's PC competitors, it's not even close.

Steam isn't succesful solely because of trading, but it's certainly one element of many that encourage people to stay with it.

 

[nightside]

People are disappointed because they had unrealistic expectations about what the FTC was doing. It was a very narrow investigation of three claims, all effectively related to false advertising.

False Claim of Independent Reviews

Deceptive Failure to Disclose Endorsers Were Owners and Officers

Deceptive Failure to Disclose Endorsers Were Paid

Nothing to do with gambling, nothing to do with fraud or rigging results, and it wouldn't be the FTC's role to investigate those things.

Actual complaint: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/1623184_csgolotto_complaint.pdf

So basically unrealistic expectations.
The question is: are they being investigated for fraud, rigging and allowing minors to gamble?

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

Surely that's grounds for everyone hustled by them to claim compensation from them..?

I'd be surprised if there aren't any civil lawsuits...

I haven't followed it so AFAIK maybe their already are, but everything I read in this thread certainly would have the grounds for one -- possibly with a request for class action status based on the scope of it.

 

[Drencrom]

Imagine if every game with LootBoxes (acquirable with real money), was considered gambling, and automatically slapped with an AO rating.

Would love to see that happen

 

[AbsolutBro]

People are disappointed because they had unrealistic expectations about what the FTC was doing. It was a very narrow investigation of three claims, all effectively related to false advertising.

False Claim of Independent Reviews

Deceptive Failure to Disclose Endorsers Were Owners and Officers

Deceptive Failure to Disclose Endorsers Were Paid

Nothing to do with gambling, nothing to do with fraud or rigging results, and it wouldn't be the FTC's role to investigate those things.

Actual complaint: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/1623184_csgolotto_complaint.pdf

I actually asked my division director about this, because a similar case came up in our staff meeting yesterday. (I actually confused it for this case.) Apparently the FTC's ability to let fines is limited to a congressionally prescribed list of case types. This didn't really fit into those categories, so the most we can currently do is what was done. Basically give them their one warning, which allows us to fine any further infractions. It's not a great solution, and it certainly feels like shit not being able to actually shut this shit down. But it's all the FTC can do right now.

 

[AbsolutBro]

So basically unrealistic expectations.
The question is: are they being investigated for fraud, rigging and allowing minors to gamble?

False advertising, which is Fraud.

 

[Disgraced]

Fuck those motherfuckers.

 

[Hesh]

Huh, I completely forgot about this story but I remember at the time it broke that I figured they were going to jail for this. Incredible that they got off the hook.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

Good thing they didn't make hundreds of thousands of dollars before it all

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

At least their names and reputations are trash. Would have really liked to see some real punishment though.

Idiotic fans were defending him after this came out. His reputation is fine. He gained more subs as a result of the publicity.

 

[ScientificPizza]

insane that they're facing *no* repercussions. fuck the both of them they should be in prison

 

[Dr.Acula]

Thanks. It was a bit out there for my boss, who had the opposite response as yours to the first quarter's quality versus the rest.

Yo! I totally thought reading the first quarter that that was written for corporate

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

The FCC is just another sham organization under the Trump administration. As if their actions towards net neutrality didn't paint a clear enough picture.

 

[Hexa]

The FCC is just another sham organization under the Trump administration. As if their actions towards net neutrality didn't paint a clear enough picture.

Wrong organization. This was the FTC.

 

[NegativeCero]

I'm not surprised at all. The outrage at the time was so intense that somehow this was the only way it would end up. This is some privileged shit that they were able to get off scot-free.

 

[Frozenprince]

The FTC everybody! Always been horrible at their job. See, every major US economic downturn caused by economic collusion/mis-management.