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Project Natal - controller free gaming on 360

gofreak said:
Depends how you're implementing it I think. You can do something quite granular and fluid though, it doesn't have to be binary 'i'm standing up'/'i'm crouching' detection...you can follow along with the inbetween bits. The puppet/avatar demo does a pretty good job of giving a strong impression of quite granular 1:1 upper body mapping including ducking and jumping etc, but it has cases where it'd fall apart and require something more sophisticated than what it's doing (which is really just using head tracking and the controllers at the hands...but it's amazing how much mileage you get out of that). You'd want to do more if you wanted to distinguish between forward/backward leaning and x/y translation of the head for example.
Yeah, I saw that...it's pretty neat, honestly. I'm sure it can be more than the binary result I was talking about even just tracking a face or the outline of the head.

Well, like I said earlier, this is a somewhat moot debate anyway, since software-wise Sony is mostly exploring one end of things, and as it appears, isn't really focusing too much on the general camera-input end. The distinctions based on what the software reflects are already clear I think. Maybe we'll see some tech demos from Sony that mix in the camera more though (as with the puppet demo).
I dunno...I think Sony's going to come at from all angles...they really need to if Move is going to live past its first year or simply limp through it, IMO. I can't imagine they're extremely happy with the impression left by their press conference and media showoff from a while back.

As for MS, they've got plenty they'll hopefully show. The applications that show the expansion of camera-based control, and its relevance/applicability etc. Perhaps even some pure tech demo stuff that might show more than the first software does. Some final specs would be nice too :p
Yeah, they've said a lot and, by all accounts, it should have no reason to fail to impress at its coming out party...they cannot afford to even manage a mildly impressive showing. They need to blow shit up big time.

Both MS and Sony have to really knock it out of the park and do really hope both do since both approaches have tons of potential. (It could also light a fire under the market leader's ass to do more with their platform and its still untapped potential, IMO.) Honestly, this second wave of motion control is the most interested I've been in gaming in some time...it's really crucial to the future of console gaming across the board if a massive and growing portion of the consumer base is voting motion control in as a standard. Gaming with motion control needs to widen and improve to include traditional gamers, too. Otherwise, we're staring at a potential problem for the next gen to start when it comes to software focus given how risky it is to make any sort of game even in the current gen.

I think people are comparing to eyetoy games because of how they're seeing the tech applied vs the quality of the tech itself. But we have indeed only seen one game or demo, or heard of only a couple of games, and I expect a lot more variety to talk about next week.
I agree. Unimpressive and simple as it might seem, I think it's just the application not being showy enough...not that full package that is able to surmount the high level of skepticism about the technology and approach, in general.

cakefoo said:
Well now you're saying Eye can track legs and body, but without the 3D fidelity. But that's all gofreak said too:
Originally Posted by gofreak:
I mean for something like Ricochet, you could definitely do that on Move, albeit with more compromised leg interaction
But you countered him, saying he would "lose the ability to use his legs and body to hit and block with."
So, I take it that, because you have had to repeatedly attack my post yet gofreak has not taken issue with that statement, you see a problem that he doesn't. I assume that gofreak knows what I meant because he hasn't felt the need to respond to it...not even the slightest response and, certainly, not the way you are now. I was having a conversation with him and I'll take his lack of direct response to the part you apparently have a problem with as a sign that he understood what I was saying. You don't get it. Fine. Believe what you like, man. If you wanna win something, well, you just beat my patience to explain something down and you won whatever it is you think you did.

In a game like Ricochet you don't need 3d tracking to block a ball. Will 3d help? Sure. But it won't completely remove limb control if you just had a 2d camera. What you said was understood as losing "the" ability to use those parts, not just "some" ability to use them.
Again, keep ignoring the larger context of a bigger conversation, completely limit and define what other people are saying by an outside and too-literal viewpoint that slices out choice pieces, and you'll win every single argument you ever enter into. Gratz, man.
 

cakefoo

Member
MightyHedgehog said:
So, I take it that, because you have had to repeatedly attack my post yet gofreak has not taken issue with that statement, you see a problem that he doesn't. I assume that gofreak knows what I meant because he hasn't felt the need to respond to it...not even the slightest response and, certainly, not the way you are now. I was having a conversation with him and I'll take his lack of direct response to the part you apparently have a problem with as a sign that he understood what I was saying. You don't get it. Fine. Believe what you like, man. If you wanna win something, well, you just beat my patience to explain something down and you won whatever it is you think you did.
Why not use that energy to help me understand the proper context? I'm not trying to not understand it.
 
cakefoo said:
Why not use that energy to help me understand the proper context? I'm not trying to not understand it.
What are you? Some little old lady at the crosswalk? If you can't understand what I've said already, I'm just not interested in doing any more heavy lifting for you.
 

cakefoo

Member
MightyHedgehog said:
What are you? Some little old lady at the crosswalk? If you can't understand what I've said already, I'm just not interested in doing any more heavy lifting for you.
Alrightythen. Just trying to understand your position, that's all. I just don't want to have to read through dozens of posts. I read through the one post and it was long enough. I have more things to do with my time than read your books. Cliff's Notes were all I was asking for.
 

TheOddOne

Member
cakefoo said:
Alrightythen. Just trying to understand your position, that's all. I just don't want to have to read through dozens of posts. I read through the one post and it was long enough. I have more things to do with my time than read your books. Cliff's Notes were all I was asking for.
Mmmm...
 
cakefoo said:
Alrightythen. Just trying to understand your position, that's all. I just don't want to have to read through dozens of posts. I read through the one post and it was long enough. I have more things to do with my time than read your books. Cliff's Notes were all I was asking for.
Who's Cliff?
 

Doodis

Member
InaudibleWhispa said:
Who's Cliff?
215549-cliffyb_thumb.jpg
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Small tidbits on suppliers...mostly interesting because seems to hint again at an independent power supply.

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20100610PD216.html

Taiwan-based Chicony Electronics is expected to benefit from Microsoft Xbox 360's Natal Project by supplying power supplies and webcam modules, and already started shipping in June, according to market watchers.

Chicony declined to comment, but pointed out that third-quarter consolidated revenues should increase 20-30% sequentially on strong power supply shipments.
 

Alx

Member
gofreak said:
mostly interesting because seems to hint again at an independent power supply.

I thought this was a given after the latest sightings of the camera and the few leaks about its instruction manual...
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Alx said:
I thought this was a given after the latest sightings of the camera and the few leaks about its instruction manual...

I think there was a bit of hope that was just prototype stuff and the retail version would just plug into a usb port.
 

PSGames

Junior Member
The Zcam didn't require an external power supply did it? I'm thinking it's the motorized tilt that requires the additional power.
 

Zinga

Banned
Wasn't sure where to put this, but I wanted to get a new Xbox 360 this year since mine is half buggered and still won't die after all this time, has there been any more indications that a 360 slim is coming? I guess i'll have my answer next week anyway, but would be nice to know if there were any Sony-esque leaks beforehand :D
 
gofreak said:
I think there was a bit of hope that was just prototype stuff and the retail version would just plug into a usb port.

My guess is that the power supply is only for the old Xbox 360 consoles and the new revision will have a special port for the camera.

500x_natal_guide.jpg
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
http://www.videogamer.com/news/ms_on_natal_the_future_of_entertainment_is_here.html

"Ten years ago we launched the original Xbox, and ten years on we are launching Project Natal, which will free people from the controller for gaming and entertainment," Lewis told MCV. "It will work with every Xbox 360 and when you get to use it across different games and entertainment experiences it really is revolutionary."

Lewis concluded: "We've all seen similar things in films set in the future, but that future is here and will be on the shelves for Christmas."

I wonder how many times 'future', 'sci-fi' and 'revolution' will be dropped in the next week. We should start a bullshit-bingo card.
 

TheOddOne

Member
gofreak said:
I wonder how many times 'future', 'sci-fi' and 'revolution' will be dropped in the next week. We should start a bullshit-bingo card.
Company claims its device is revolutionary, news at eleven.
 

Kafel

Banned
Schafer 'very excited' by Natal

"I am usually more excited by creative ideas on the design side, and when it comes to tech like new controllers I take more of a 'wait and see' approach," he told industry magazine Develop.

"Except I am very excited about Natal. I think if Natal is a success, it could up open up video games to a whole new market. And possibly cause me to lose 30 pounds."

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=250403
 

AzBat

Member
brotkasten said:
My guess is that the power supply is only for the old Xbox 360 consoles and the new revision will have a special port for the camera.

500x_natal_guide.jpg

Could explain some of the extra ports on the Slim motherboard that nobody was sure of...

new-360-callouts---benheck.jpg
 

clav

Member
AzBat said:
Could explain some of the extra ports on the Slim motherboard that nobody was sure of...

new-360-callouts---benheck.jpg
My guess would be additional USB ports as Natal needs its own port, and the wifi-connector still needs to be plugged into the back.
 

LordAlu

Member
I'm gonna go out on a limb here. My sources let slip a little bit of news... whether it is true or not is another matter!

Project Natal will be renamed "The Wave" at E3.
 

derFeef

Member
LordAlu said:
I'm gonna go out on a limb here. My sources let slip a little bit of news... whether it is true or not is another matter!

Project Natal will be renamed "The Wave" at E3.
"The" Wave?
We present you The Xbox 360 The Wave!
 

FrankT

Member
Fragdolls getting their Natal on apparently heh;

Interested in Project Natal? We have some exciting news of epic proportions to share soon. #E3drum #xboxe3

A little birdie just told us that an exciting announcement about Project Natal is coming soon!


http://twitter.com/FragDolls/status/15872767674

You can kind of follow the rabbit hole here as well;

http://twitter.com/PhoenixFD

http://twitter.com/mattsingley


On a call with Xbox right now talking about Project Natal #xboxe3 stuff! My favorite thing about what they'll reveal? It's got to be the lo

Whatever the case this thing is going to make for one heck of an E3.
 
Looked through the tweets looks like it is some news tomorrow.

@psam asked
"When's it coming? RT @FragDolls: Interested in Project #Natal? We have some exciting news of epic proportions to share soon. #E3drum #xboxe3"

@ozsultan replied
@psam Look for some details tomorrow #xboxe3

@PhoenixFD (frag droll said)
Oh SNAP! RT @ozsultan On an Xbox call with @mattsingley - the reveal is going to be intense #xboxe3
 
LordAlu said:
I'm gonna go out on a limb here. My sources let slip a little bit of news... whether it is true or not is another matter!

Project Natal will be renamed "The Wave" at E3.

http://www.947thewave.com

smoove jazz? NO.

a little birdie told ME that natal will be renamed something 6 letters long and its not a normal word. Think "dreamcast" or "zune" hmmm. although i dont even believe that one, we'll see.
 

jedimike

Member
I have to give MS some props... here we are 3 days before reveal and it's still largely a mystery (name, price, games). Usually their partners can't keep their mouths shut.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
jedimike said:
I have to give MS some props... here we are 3 days before reveal and it's still largely a mystery (name, price, games). Usually their partners can't keep their mouths shut.

Well, depends I guess if the Edge leak was right or not (re. price). There's been a couple of other tidbits too.

Still, though, plenty of time! Weekend just before E3 is often prime leak-territory :lol
 

CrunchinJelly

formerly cjelly
gofreak said:
Well, depends I guess if the Edge leak was right or not (re. price). There's been a couple of other tidbits too.

Still, though, plenty of time! Weekend just before E3 is often prime leak-territory :lol
OMG A GREY 360!!!

:lol :lol
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Jtyettis said:
Eh, I wasn't having any luck filling in the blank. Tis possible.

Edge filled with PR mis-direction. :lol

The Edge 'leak' really did smell like a feint, tbh.

Maybe they'll announce the first nuts-and-bolts deets tomorrow to pre-empt possible leaks on the weekend? Name, price, date perhaps and a 'see you on Sunday!' or whatever.
 
LA Times - Microsoft previews controller-free games for Xbox 360

Reporting from Redmond, Wash. — —

Step away from the controller.

Microsoft this week is unveiling a set of video games that don't require people to navigate their way around a complex controller with more buttons than the cockpit of a Boeing 747.

Following on the massive success of Nintendo's Wii, Microsoft is introducing a technology, code-named Project Natal, that ditches the controller altogether. Instead, the games will rely on a device the size of a stapler that perches on top of a living room TV to recognize faces, obey voice commands and track body movements. No more mashing 14 different buttons in endless labyrinthine sequences. No more buttons at all, in fact.

Though Microsoft won't reveal which games will launch with the device until Monday, last month it did show off four "tech demos" to a handful of journalists at its campus here. One can only assume that those games will become part of the package. The lineup is expected to include:

River Rush: What Shaun White would want in real-life river rafting, players instead can indulge in the vicarious thrill on their living room rug. Steering a virtual raft past waterfalls, rocks and other obstacles requires lots of jumping and leaning. The graphics are similar to what you'd find in snowboarding games, with giant visual cues telling players where they can go so they won't get lost. The mini-game is designed to encourage anyone to jump in and play without having to read a manual.

Ricochet: Prepare to break a sweat. Players use their arms, legs, feet and head to block a frantic barrage of soccer-sized balls. Microsoft showed an early version of this game during last year's Electronic Entertainment Expo. The latest iteration lets two people play simultaneously. Using facial recognition software, the camera checks who is playing and pulls up their personal avatars on the screen. The feature would, for example, let parents control which games their kids can play. If the console sees that the person playing is associated with a profile with parental controls, it will restrict the types of games that can be played.

Living Statue: One small step for Xbox, one giant leap for Microsoft's social media strategy. This game lets players record their avatars dancing and singing karaoke-style, then e-mail the video masterpiece to their friends. The company has long nurtured its ambitions for its Xbox Live online game service, which has 23 million active users, to become a virtual watering hole for people who play video games. Living Statue is the latest attempt to encourage its players to check into Xbox Live and make friends.

Obstacle Course: This imaginatively named title is exactly what it suggests. Players pull, dodge and jump their way through a series of levels resembling what you would find at summer camp, sans the mosquitoes.

In addition, there will be about a dozen more Natal-licensed titles from other game developers unveiled Monday and Tuesday, but Microsoft has forbidden the publishers from uttering a word about them until after its own news conference Monday morning.
 
InaudibleWhispa said:
I can see the new way to fight over the remote, as it were, would be who puts their gestured hand closer to camera than the other. I assume visual and facial recognition of a logged-in Gamertag profile and the person is necessary for determining priority for acquiring interpreting the whose voice and command gestures will be accepted as well. So, yeah, no remote powering down or app commands from someone not logged in or not on camera.
 
"On a call with Xbox right now talking about Project Natal #xboxe3 stuff! My favorite thing about what they'll reveal? It's got to be the lolo sequel!"

Lolo Natal incoming!
 

AzBat

Member
InaudibleWhispa said:

Living Statue sounds like something Rare might be working on according to what Mundo Rare posted...

Mundo Rare said:
What’s worth mentioning regarding that line is a recent article from IGN; the theory they have is that the “One in a million” line connects with a recent Microsoft promotion. On Facebook, Microsoft is allowing users to download free music from Xbox as thanks for reaching one million users. The theory is that Rare’s next game will be something akin to Facebook, in which it’ll “allow your Avatar to interact” with other friends.

http://mundorare.com/news/2010/06/rares-teaser-website-is-online/
 
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