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Trump invites Gennifer Flowers to front row of Presedential Debate

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B

besada

Banned
UraMallas said:
I don't buy that at all. Politics are cut throat and this isn't even on the radar of the things he's done. I'm also not lowering the bar for Trump on this one - Clinton tried to play his game and failed. The best way to win at Trump's game is to not play. It's not likely to affect her, anyway.
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You are lowering the bar for Trump with this one. This sort of thing has simply never been done in politics publicly. There is no honest equivalence between Cuban and Flowers, although you can attempt to keep trying to build one if you like. One is a political figure for the campaign, and the other is a nobody dredged up out of the past to make a personal attack that has nothing to do with the candidate's fitness.

Treating this as reasonable shows you've lost your way as much as any Trump supporter.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
UraMallas said:
Another good point. As a Hillary supporter, I really have no problem with this at all.



It's not like he's murdering her dog. She'll have to deal with it and I have total faith it won't even be an issue. The stupid thing Clinton did was even starting down the path, honestly.
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Again. Her inviting Cuban. Someone who is publicly stumping for her. Introduced her at rallies is being invited as her guest. Hell he was probably going to be there anyway. But Trump being more petty can't help himself and had to react to it by digging deeper into the hellhole.

I don't see how she got "got" Trump bring any of that shit up it looks bad for him. Clinton doesn't give a shit. she's heard it all for 20+ years.
 
George Washington

George Washington

Member
This election will be decided by the perception of the candidates at the debates and voter turnout. If not, Trump would have been disqualified a long time ago for his remarks / policies.

Let's see what happens and who commands control over the debates.
 
A

Anarky

Banned
Lol at ppl equating Mark Cuban being there with Gennifer Flowers being there. I don't recall Cuban doing the dirty deed with Melania.
 
Z

zethren

Banned
I honestly don't think this will hit her the way Trump hopes it will.

And lol at people who are saying Cuban being invited is the same thing as this. Yeah she invited him for the extra intimidation factor, but he's also relevant. Trump inviting who he did is just classless (no surprise there, I guess).
 
U

UraMallas

Member
besada said:
You are lowering the bar for Trump with this one. This sort of thing has simply never been done in politics publicly. There is no honest equivalence between Cuban and Flowers, although you can attempt to keep trying to build one if you like. One is a political figure for the campaign, and the other is a nobody dredged up out of the past to make a personal attack that has nothing to do with the candidate's fitness.

Treating this as reasonable shows you've lost your way as much as any Trump supporter.
Click to expand...

When has someone ever had some billionaire sit in the front row and publicize it? There is exactly one reason she did it - to get under Trump's skin and be petty. The bar was lowered by Clinton and then it was more than obvious Trump was going to go for the throat. It's all politics here. Dirty petty politics. "Lost my way" please. I'm just speaking rationally and not letting this rile me up. Hillary hopefully agrees with me and shows behavior like mine and not yours.

Boke1879 said:
Again. Her inviting Cuban. Someone who is publicly stumping for her. Introduced her at rallies is being invited as her guest. Hell he was probably going to be there anyway. But Trump being more petty can't help himself and had to react to it by digging deeper into the hellhole.

I don't see how she got "got" Trump bring any of that shit up it looks bad for him. Clinton doesn't give a shit. she's heard it all for 20+ years.
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So then what is the issue? Just some butthurt Hillary supporters? It's nothing. It means nothing. It's petty but inoffensive. Hillary isn't going to give a shit about it for just the reason you mentioned. I would also expect nothing less than my future commander-in-chief. Hillary only got got in that she played the wrong game. I doubt she does it again. That way lies madness.
 
K

Kayhan

Member
The Hillary campaign kind of started this by inviting Cuban and Trump just took it to the next level because he is, well, Trump.
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
No moderate voters that Trump needs to win would be moved by this.

In fact, many right leaning women might....... hate it?

Kayhan said:
The Hillary campaign kind of started this by inviting Cuban and Trump just took it to the next level because he is, well, Trump.
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Yeah, she invited one of her surrogates (which is normal!!) to the debate to elicit this exact reaction.
 
B

besada

Banned
UraMallas said:
When has someone ever had some billionaire sit in the front row and publicize it? There is exactly one reason she did it - to get under Trump's skin and be petty. The bar was lowered by Clinton and then it was more than obvious Trump was going to go for the throat. It's all politics here. Dirty petty politics. "Lost my way" please. I'm just speaking rationally and not letting this rile me up. Hillary hopefully agrees with me and shows behavior like mine and not yours.
Click to expand...
It think she'll be fine. She's not the problem.

People who excuse abhorrent behavior by drawing false equivalences are the problem.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
UraMallas said:
I don't buy that at all. Politics are cut throat and you can only ask her to have the proper temperament to deescalate the issue going forward. This isn't even on the radar of the despicable things he's done. I'm also not lowering the bar for Trump on this one - Clinton tried to play his game and failed. The best way to win at Trump's game is to not play. It's not likely to affect her, anyway.
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So tell me how did she fail? I mean this is probably nothing and won't even be brought up. How is him inviting Flowers means she failed?

He invited someone she literally won't even be phased by or give a fuck about. Trump before the debate even started tweeted like a child about it. At best for Trump this amounts to nothing. He brings anything up and that white, college educated female vote for him plummets.

Already have seen contributors etc, for MSNBC, Politco etc stating this is gross from Trump.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
Kayhan said:
The Hillary campaign kind of started this by inviting Cuban and Trump just took it to the next level because he is, well, Trump.
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To be fair he has been stumping for her and supports her no doubt. This isn't odd to have a surrogate be a guest at your debate. Hell Trump probably would have reacted the same way if she invited Bloomberg or Buffet.

Sure it's a shrewd move but it's political and Trump could have easily kept his mouth shut on this. What he did was personal. Is he going to shame Hillary for staying with her Husband?

But moves like this make more sense when you understand Roger Ailes is pulling the strings.
 
U

UraMallas

Member
besada said:
It think she'll be fine. She's not the problem.

People who excuse abhorrent behavior by drawing false equivalences are the problem.
Click to expand...

People who can't see the forest for the trees are the problem. You're down in the muck with him. Hillary is on 11th level chess. It's meaningless and nothing to get butthurt over.

Boke1879 said:
So tell me how did she fail? I mean this is probably nothing and won't even be brought up. How is him inviting Flowers means she failed?

He invited someone she literally won't even be phased by or give a fuck about. Trump before the debate even started tweeted like a child about it. At best for Trump this amounts to nothing. He brings anything up and that white, college educated female vote for him plummets.

Already have seen contributors etc, for MSNBC, Politco etc stating this is gross from Trump.
Click to expand...

She failed to keep her campaign above it. That's it.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
UraMallas said:
When has someone ever had some billionaire sit in the front row and publicize it? There is exactly one reason she did it - to get under Trump's skin and be petty. The bar was lowered by Clinton and then it was more than obvious Trump was going to go for the throat. It's all politics here. Dirty petty politics. "Lost my way" please. I'm just speaking rationally and not letting this rile me up. Hillary hopefully agrees with me and shows behavior like mine and not yours.



So then what is the issue? Just some butthurt Hillary supporters? It's nothing. It means nothing. It's petty but inoffensive. Hillary isn't going to give a shit about it for just the reason you mentioned. I would also expect nothing less than my future commander-in-chief. Hillary only got got in that she played the wrong game. I doubt she does it again. That way lies madness.
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Eh this is part of the plan. The way Trump reacted shows how easy it is to get under his skin. If nothing happens. We get a debate about policy that Clinton dominates.

Trump mentions this shit and it doesn't help him. He brings up Gennifer in any way it doesn't help him. Like this move doesn't help Trump. It potentially damages him in a major way.

What Hillary did quite frankly was inoffensive and typically normal.
 
T

Tristam

Member
UraMallas said:
People who can't see the forest for the trees are the problem. You're down in the muck with him. Hillary is on 11th level chess. It's meaningless and nothing to get butthurt over.



She failed to keep her campaign above it. That's it.
Click to expand...

So, uh, did Hillary get got or did she play 11th-level chess?
 
B

Boke1879

Member
UraMallas said:
People who can't see the forest for the trees are the problem. You're down in the muck with him. Hillary is on 11th level chess. It's meaningless and nothing to get butthurt over.



She failed to keep her campaign above it. That's it.
Click to expand...

she failed what? She invited a surrogate and someone who stumps for her and supports her. He publicly disagrees with Trump. So what? Trump invites his opponent's husbands mistress.

It's not even close to the same thing. People are just trying to say "SAME THING" for the hell of it.
 
F

Flambe

Member
besada said:
It think she'll be fine. She's not the problem.

People who excuse abhorrent behavior by drawing false equivalences are the problem.
Click to expand...

Seriously, it's incredible that people think they're in any way comparable. I'm not even American and am embarassed for the childish garbage being spewed by a candidate for the highest office and that people find it acceptable, hell ENDEARING.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
UraMallas said:
People who can't see the forest for the trees are the problem. You're down in the muck with him. Hillary is on 11th level chess. It's meaningless and nothing to get butthurt over.



She failed to keep her campaign above it. That's it.
Click to expand...

This is politics. Like, this is good politics, and smart politics. You goad your opponent into doing something stupid. Trump, literally, played directly into this. Hillary has 100% ironclad coverage. Cuban is a surrogate. He has been on the stump for her for months. Candidates always invite surrogates to the debates, especially ones that have helped financially. Hillary's running a contest right now where a donor gets to go to the event.

Politics is about handing your opponent rope, and seeing what they do with it. Trump, literally, hanged himself within a few hours. There is, literally, no way this hurts Hillary at all. If Trump brings up someone in the audience is being mean to him, he looks like a giant man child, and, you know, reinforces Hillary's entire argument about him. (That a man who is angered by a tweet, is unfit to control the nuclear weapons). If he decides to bring up Gennifer, he is going to be raked up one side and down the other in the media, and he's also going to see his already abysmal numbers with women crash and burn.

He is not capable of dealing with this effectively, because, you know, he's a giant man child!
 
U

UraMallas

Member
Boke1879 said:
Eh this is part of the plan. The way Trump reacted shows how easy it is to get under his skin. If nothing happens. We get a debate about policy that Clinton dominates.

Trump mentions this shit and it doesn't help him. He brings up Gennifer in any way it doesn't help him. Like this move doesn't help Trump. It potentially damages him in a major way.

What Hillary did quite frankly was inoffensive and typically normal.
Click to expand...

I agree it was part of the plan. I didn't like the play. She knows how Trump would react. I'm honestly surprised so many on here are shocked at all. She announced it to get under his skin, that's for sure. And it definitely worked, which I absolutely love.

adam387 said:
This is politics. Like, this is good politics, and smart politics. You goad your opponent into doing something stupid. Trump, literally, played directly into this. Hillary has 100% ironclad coverage. Cuban is a surrogate. He has been on the stump for her for months. Candidates always invite surrogates to the debates, especially ones that have helped financially. Hillary's running a contest right now where a donor gets to go to the event.

Politics is about handing your opponent rope, and seeing what they do with it. Trump, literally, hanged himself within a few hours. There is, literally, no way this hurts Hillary at all. If Trump brings up someone in the audience is being mean to him, he looks like a giant man child, and, you know, reinforces Hillary's entire argument about him. (That a man who is angered by a tweet, is unfit to control the nuclear weapons). If he decides to bring up Gennifer, he is going to be raked up one side and down the other in the media, and he's also going to see his already abysmal numbers with women crash and burn.

He is not capable of dealing with this effectively, because, you know, he's a giant man child!
Click to expand...
Literally, Adam, I agree with you. Thanks. You're arguing against a position I'm not taking.
 
J

Joey Fox

Self-Actualized Member
Boke1879 said:
Again. Her inviting Cuban. Someone who is publicly stumping for her. Introduced her at rallies is being invited as her guest. Hell he was probably going to be there anyway. But Trump being more petty can't help himself and had to react to it by digging deeper into the hellhole.

I don't see how she got "got" Trump bring any of that shit up it looks bad for him. Clinton doesn't give a shit. she's heard it all for 20+ years.
Click to expand...

Clinton won't even sit through a 10 minute press conference, you really think you can predict how she'll handle 90 minutes with Trump?

Great thing is we will all find out Monday night. No more people creating their opinions off headlines, thread titling, or any third party sources. Two people head-to-head with the world watching every word, gesture and eye movement.

Trump is a master showman, and as he showed in the Republican debates (think Kasich), he can attack with devastation where it hurts your credibility the most. He also showed he was Teflon to attacks that might work against other candidates, and it is because people like him. If Clinton goes negative and he sticks with his positive message during the debate, I just don't see how she can possibly win.
 
B

besada

Banned
UraMallas said:
People who can't see the forest for the trees are the problem. You're down in the muck with him. Hillary is on 11th level chess. It's meaningless and nothing to get butthurt over.
Click to expand...

First, if you can't respond with something better than "11th dimensional chess/you're butthurt", feel free not to respond. I'm not interested in conversing with someone whose depth of thinking doesn't reach the third grade level.

I'm not butthurt. I'm irritated to see someone being so fundamentally dishonest as you are being. I'm repulsed at what an adult running for President thinks is acceptable behavior. I'm disappointed that otherwise rational people are making excuses for that behavior. I don't even like Hillary, so the idea that her getting her feelings hurt is the source of this is just another way in which you have completely missed the point.

It's about having some standards of basic human decency in campaigning, which you seem to be fine with jettisoning. And you're just wrong about this being nothing new or unusual. Historically wrong. Feel free to find examples of this behavior if you believe otherwise.
 
J

Joeytj

Banned
Joey Fox said:
Clinton won't even sit through a 10 minute press conference, you really think you can predict how she'll handle 90 minutes with Trump?
.
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Oh man, you really haven't actually paid attention to Clinton over the years, have you?

You're in for a treat.

Anyway, for those who truly care about this, the Trump campaign actually hasn't even confirmed Flowers being at the debate. All Flower "accepted" was a vague threat by Trump on Twitter to have her at the debate.

This says a lot about both Flowers and Trump, honestly.
 
U

UraMallas

Member
besada said:
First, if you can't respond with something better than "11th dimensional chess/you're butthurt", feel free not to respond. I'm not interested in conversing with someone whose depth of thinking doesn't reach the third grade level.

I'm not butthurt. I'm irritated to see someone being so fundamentally dishonest as you are being. I'm repulsed at what an adult running for President thinks is acceptable behavior. I'm disappointed that otherwise rational people are making excuses for that behavior. I don't even like Hillary, so the idea that her getting her feelings hurt is the source of this is just another way in which you have completely missed the point.

It's about having some standards of basic human decency in campaigning, which you seem to be fine with jettisoning. And you're just wrong about this being nothing new or unusual. Historically wrong. Feel free to find examples of this behavior if you believe otherwise.
Click to expand...

My word. This is thick with pretension. Buzzwords work well enough when you're in a hurry. You also have a lot of inaccuracies about my posts I've made and my views within them. I will just say it seems I'm not smart enough to convey my views to you in a manner in which you can understand. I'm leaving for a wedding now, though, so it'll have to do.
 
C

chefbags

Member
Not sure if thread worthy but this was an interesting article of how Clinton chose her Mock Donald for the debate.

90


"Philippe Reines, Hillary Clinton's former Senate and State Department aide, is playing Donald Trump in the Democratic nominee's debate prep."

Some quotes from the article.


“The debate prep team is made up of people who are really comfortable with her and she's comfortable with them,” said Clinton’s 2008 campaign manager Patti Solis Doyle, who began her career as young member of Clinton’s Hillaryland posse in the East Wing in the 1990s.
“Everybody’s always saying Hillary needs to project her authentic self, but Philippe is one of the only ones who knows what that is, and knows how to get her to go along with that,” said a person who knows both. “He’s the one who urges her to abandon the caution, to go for it. And she’ll listen to him, and that’s because she trusts him.”
Click to expand...

More here
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/hillary-clinton-philippe-reines-presidential-debate-prep-228624
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Joey Fox said:
Clinton won't even sit through a 10 minute press conference, you really think you can predict how she'll handle 90 minutes with Trump?

Great thing is we will all find out Monday night. No more people creating their opinions off headlines, thread titling, or any third party sources. Two people head-to-head with the world watching every word, gesture and eye movement.

Trump is a master showman, and as he showed in the Republican debates (think Kasich), he can attack with devastation where it hurts your credibility the most. He also showed he was Teflon to attacks that might work against other candidates, and it is because people like him. If Clinton goes negative and he sticks with his positive message during the debate, I just don't see how she can possibly win.
Click to expand...

The woman who sat through an 11 hour witch hunt won't be able to deal with Donald Trump for 90 minutes? The woman who has, literally, dealt with idiots like Trump her entire public life is somehow incapable of standing next to Trump?

Trump is not a master showman. He had a very specific style in the primary debates that will not work in the General. He throws out a bomb, and then retreats and lets everyone fight it over. That will not work with two people on the stage.

And Trump has no positive message other than, you know, building up the alt-right.
 
B

besada

Banned
UraMallas said:
My word. This is thick with pretension. Buzzwords work well enough when you're in a hurry. You also have a lot of inaccuracies about my posts I've made and my views within them. I'm not sorry, but I will say it seems I'm not smart enough to convey my views to you in a manner in which you can understand. I'm leaving for a wedding now, though, so it'll have to do.
Click to expand...

This is thick with your sad inability to actually rebut what I and others have been saying here. Enjoy your wedding.
 
D

Drek

Member
UraMallas said:
People who can't see the forest for the trees are the problem. You're down in the muck with him. Hillary is on 11th level chess. It's meaningless and nothing to get butthurt over.



She failed to keep her campaign above it. That's it.
Click to expand...
You are arguing from the exact same misguided thinking as Trump. Clinton invited a political surrogate who is a well know public figure, very involved in the political discourse, and who's issues with Trump align entirely along political lines or talking points of the Teump campaign.

Last I checked Clinton wasn't running on the "my husband never cheated on me!" platform.

That was the whole point for Clinton though, I'm sure. Pick a traditionally valid guest who gets under Trump's skin enough for him to step across the Lin of appropriate behavior. If it wasn't Cuban it could just as easily have been Warren. He always takes the bait.

Worst case for the Clinton campaign this is a non-item. Best case is that it and the debate play into their narrative of Trump as a sexist, thin skinned bully. In reality the more media attention this gets the more likely it helps Clinton with her narrative.

After the basket full of deplorables drama I was expecting the Clinton campaign to move away from the racism narrative as anyone receptive to that already sees it. What their follow up,was going to be needed quick definition. Trump just offered some up. He's also a mysoginist. Done.
 
N

Neoweee

Member
Joey Fox said:
Clinton won't even sit through a 10 minute press conference, you really think you can predict how she'll handle 90 minutes with Trump?

Great thing is we will all find out Monday night. No more people creating their opinions off headlines, thread titling, or any third party sources. Two people head-to-head with the world watching every word, gesture and eye movement.

Trump is a master showman, and as he showed in the Republican debates (think Kasich), he can attack with devastation where it hurts your credibility the most. He also showed he was Teflon to attacks that might work against other candidates, and it is because people like him. If Clinton goes negative and he sticks with his positive message during the debate, I just don't see how she can possibly win.
Click to expand...

You know she's been doing more press conferences than Trump recently, right?

Trump has bunkered down and is only doing interviews on Fox and its affiliates. No more press conferences.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
Joey Fox said:
Clinton won't even sit through a 10 minute press conference, you really think you can predict how she'll handle 90 minutes with Trump?

Great thing is we will all find out Monday night. No more people creating their opinions off headlines, thread titling, or any third party sources. Two people head-to-head with the world watching every word, gesture and eye movement.

Trump is a master showman, and as he showed in the Republican debates (think Kasich), he can attack with devastation where it hurts your credibility the most. He also showed he was Teflon to attacks that might work against other candidates, and it is because people like him. If Clinton goes negative and he sticks with his positive message during the debate, I just don't see how she can possibly win.
Click to expand...

You haven't been paying attention have you? Trump hasn't done a Press conference in 2 months. Clinton has recently.

That said. Clinton is great at debates, and if you think that shit Trump did in the primaries will play here you're wrong. Audience can't participate so no clapping or cheering. And this is an actual policy debate. Something Trump clearly doesn't have and his one liners get exposed here. He'll be asked follow up questions and he'll break down.

This is Clintons arena. There is a reason Trump has been saying the debates won't be fair. Hell the entire RNC are trying to lower expectations. Trump also hasn't done any debate prep.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
UraMallas said:
My word. This is thick with pretension. Buzzwords work well enough when you're in a hurry. You also have a lot of inaccuracies about my posts I've made and my views within them. I will just say it seems I'm not smart enough to convey my views to you in a manner in which you can understand. I'm leaving for a wedding now, though, so it'll have to do.
Click to expand...

You could surely have posted a link to a recent relevant example instead of fleeing and acting like you had reached some intellectual impasse.
 
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