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What is so terrible about Jill Stein?

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P

Poltergust

Member
I mean, there are so many angles you can attack this from.

You can bring up how her party doesn't have a single elected official anywhere, not even locally. Even Libertarians managed to accomplish that much. She has no base to support herself with, nor does she have any political experience.

You can explain how her VP pick is even more of a nutjob than she is.

You can say that she plans to remove all U.S. personnel from foreign military bases, which should be an immediate red flag.

Or even bring up how Bernie himself endorsed Hillary. Ask him why he is going against his wishes.
 
Rentahamster

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
border said:
He's gay, and I find it weird that he would essentially hand his vote over to Trump, who has pretty much implied that he'd like to roll back the gay marriage Supreme Court decision, or at least "let every state decide".
Click to expand...

Maybe your roommate is more complex than you give him credit for. Don't insult his intelligence like that.
 
R

Randam

Member
The approach of only voting 3rd party in solid red or blue states is baffling.



Don't get those parties any sets in the Senate or Congress?
 
P

Piecake

Member
KRod-57 said:
I have read the thread, and it was her running mate were said that

You use that as a primary example, as if that's the worst thing about her.. interesting. I can name another candidate who supported regime change in Iraq. Who voted for the patriot act twice. Who voted to recognize Iran's revolutionary guard as a terrorist organization (effectively allowing then president Bush to expand the war on terror there). Who supported regime change in Libya. Who suggested the US "green light" an Israeli air strike on Iran's nuclear facilities. Who supported the troops surge in Afghanistan which lead to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th deadliest years of that war. Who condoned a military coup in Honduras to oust an elected leader. Who pushes for regime change in Syria, and who condemned the UN's decision to recognize Palestine's existence.

but forget all that, because Jill Stein's running mate suggested Obama hasn't done enough to help the African American community
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You haven't looked at him all that closely if you think that is the worst that he said. The dude is a conspiratorial nutjob who says and believes some truly awful things.

And it is not cool to diminish what he said. He called Obama a race traitor. That is a lot different than someone who thinks he hasn't done enough for the black community.
 
M

MHWilliams

Member
Randam said:
Don't get those parties any sets in the Senate or Congress?
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Many of those who vote third-party in Presidential election seasons tend to not turn out for local elections in non-Presidential years. Hence no base for their third-party Presidential candidate, rinse and repeat.

Most Libertarian-leaning candidates for Congress run as Republicans. I believe they highest they've gotten as listed Libertarians is state representative in Alaska and New Hampshire. Currently Max Abramson is an elected official in the NH House of Representatives.

Green is the same, with the last being Fred Smith of the Arkansas house of representatives. There have only been three or four period.

So no, neither part is particularly notable at any level of government other than local. Hence why the Presidential election is a bit of a fool's quest. As an example, Gary Johnson and Jill Stein ran in 2012. Johnson has 5% of likely voters ahead of the election, but only got 1% in the final tally. (1.2 million voters). Stein's numbers were 3% ahead of the election - roughly where she's polling this year - she got .36% (469K).
 
Rentahamster

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
AxelFoley said:
If gay rights are rolled back and this person is gay, well that's not really an assumption. That's just common sense.
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A valid position, but it's still common courtesy to build a dialogue to see what the person actually thinks. It might surprise you to learn about what exactly he or she values most highly. To do otherwise is very presumptuous.

I'm saying this from the perspective of trying to change his or her mind. Scorn is not the most persuasive tool in the kit.
 
K

KRod-57

Banned
Piecake said:
You haven't looked at him all that closely if you think that is the worst that he said. The dude is a conspiratorial nutjob who says and believes some truly awful things.

And it is not cool to diminish what he said. He called Obama a race traitor. That is a lot different than someone who thinks he hasn't done enough for the black community.
Click to expand...

and like the Jill Stein anti-vax positions, they are mostly made up. I actually saw someone on here transcribe an interview he gave, and.. what was transcribed and what was heard in the actual interview were entirely different.

If I'm wrong, then please feel free to correct me with source material. I don't rule anything out, but I'm very suspicious given the behavior of many of the people on these forums
 
W

WhateverItTakes

Banned
Inuhanyou said:
Hillary's school college plan crafted with Bernie a few days ago was a great start(if she actually pushes for it, she should include healthcare as well) but if she had started with that kind of policy perspective years ago when she first had her campaign announced, we would not be having this conversation, Bernie would not have been in the race and we would not be talking about a close race with Trump due to citizen disinterest or revulsion.
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Nah, the sad truth is, around 40% of the American electorate will always, always, vote Republican over everything. If you're talking about Hillary's policies not winning people over from the third parties, well, they're not the reason that people are going to the third parties. That's because Clinton's Clinton and she'll just never be clean to some people. Like, have you seen the way she eats crackers?
 
D

darkace

Banned
Carcetti said:
I'm a European left and green voting pro social democracy voter and I'd never vote for her no matter how much I wish US would go more left. She's just an embarrassing candidate.
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Pretty much. I used to be in my countries green social democrat movement and I left because there were too many people like her. More interested in protesting, ideological purity and 'making a movement' than being a viable left alternative.
 
E

ErasureAcer

Banned
There are 3 reasons to vote for Jill Stein.

1. Anti-War.
Single? Your soulmate was just killed by a US drone strike. Have kids? Maybe their soulmate. Butterfly effect. Don't mess with death - you just killed the person who invented a warp drive or someone whose offspring created the warp drive. Thus you just killed humanity...the warp drive will never be built now, congratulations.

2. Alternative Medicine.
Move over Jesus, Ayahuasca can save us all.

3. Building a non-corporate party.
5 percent in some states is a start.

Why do people hate her? People who hate usually hate themselves.
 
T

thebloo

Member
KRod-57 said:
and like the Jill Stein anti-vax positions, they are mostly made up. I actually saw someone on here transcribe an interview he gave, and.. what was transcribed and what was heard in the actual interview were entirely different.

If I'm wrong, then please feel free to correct me with source material. I don't rule anything out, but I'm very suspicious given the behavior of many of the people on these forums
Click to expand...

Here it is in her words: https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comme...n_green_party_candidate_for/d31ydoe?context=3

Now, I don't have an "official" opinion, but let me tell you my personal opinion. She's dodging the question and muddying the waters by using the boogeymen of "BIG PHARMA".
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
She is careful not to upset anti-vaxxers and 9-11 truthers.

She has zero applicable experience.

Her pandering to the Bernie bros is so blatant I'm amazed she can't see it.

The only thing she appears to have experience doing is running failed campaigns.

2002 MA governor.
2004 MA state rep.
2006 MA secretary of the commonwealth.
2010 MA governor.
2012 US president.
2016 US president.

How you let your ego get inflated more and more with each failed election I don't know.
 
A

acheron_xl

Member
Few seem to mention that, should some mythical 3rd party candidate get elected to the presidency, the chances they'll get their agenda turned into legislation is extremely slim considering the complete lack of 3rd party representation in Congress to push it through. The whole 3rd party thing needs to be built ground-up, not top-down.
 
T

tuxfool

Banned
acheron_xl said:
Few seem to mention that, should some mythical 3rd party candidate get elected to the presidency, the chances they'll get their agenda turned into legislation is extremely slim considering the complete lack of 3rd party representation in Congress to push it through. The whole 3rd party thing needs to be built ground-up, not top-down.
Click to expand...

Most third party voters don't really care for the practicalities of the whole endeavour.
 
H

hammysaurusrex

Member
As huge a critic of Stein as I am for a variety of reasons, I don't actually having an issue with people voting for her if she actually supports their political views. I don't get hugely invested in voting your conscience vs. strategic voting - I'm comfortable letting individual voters make that decision.

My personal amusement with the Stein camp is in particular the Bernie supporters. Bernie was the "no compromise" progressive candidate; now my same friends and acquaintances who were chastising me for being a Hillary "defense force" are doing mental gymnastics to explain why "yeah, Stein is anti-science on <x> issue, BUT, BUT, BUT"

Being Hillary supporter, I recognize politicians are always damaged goods and that I was getting the bad with the good. So I'm just enjoying seeing friends, many of whom have are going to vote in the first non-Obama election, learning the harsh reality that there is no candidate they will 100% agree with and that they can support with zero compromise. I actually think it's an important learning experience for a lot of people.

Basically: I wish people would just admit she's a politician. My number one frustration in any election is when people try to say politicians are not politicians.

edit: vote your conscience, not consciousness as my phone suggests. Though I suppose voting while conscious is advisable.
 
S

StarCreator

Member
Ryuelli said:
She's who I'm going to be voting for. I'm living abroad and my home state is Texas, that's inevitably going red. I don't like Trump or Hillary (but if I was in a battleground state I'd reluctantly vote for her). Johnson is just strange, Stein is pretty odd too though.

At this point, I don't really like any of the candidates, so I'm just going to vote for the 3rd party candidate who has the least chance of getting elected for the simple matter of getting the 3rd party vote count up.
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This is actually the first election where there is a real chance of Texas going blue. Texas has been making the news in more ways than one with editorial boards in Dallas and Houston, who have historically had a hard-on for the GOP candidate, are backing Clinton instead this year. Please don't decide your vote is meaningless because in a world where Donald Trump is the nominee, anything goes.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1287071
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1274997
 
D

DragonSworne

Banned
So if Trump becomes president how is his conscience protected? You can't exactly defend yourself by saying "Not my fault Trump is President, I voted for Jill Stein."
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
Jill Stein is a Vladimir Putin stooge

in Europe, many Far-Right and fringe-Right parties like UKIP, Golden Dawn and Front National are stooges to Putin

in Europe, many Far-Left and Fringe-Left parties like Podemos, Syriza, Commie parties fringe parties are stooges to Putin

Putin wants a weaker Europe, Putin wants a weaker NATO.

Jill Stein and Donald Trump are two peas in the same pod. Both getting manipulated by the Kremlin to weaken US's alliance with Europe and NATO.

Just like Brexit was a big boon for Russia in the weakening of the EU

http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21643222-who-backs-putin-and-why-kremlins-pocket

20150214_FBC075_0.png


CpSy-TfVYAAYnSb.jpg


Putin prays upon the nativist nationalism from nationlist-Right wing parties in different European countries and now with Trump.
Putin prays upon the anti-Western sentiment found in Fringe-Left wing parties in European countries with aims at weakening Europe, and now with Stein

listen carefully to a Far-Lefty-Left person talk about anti-Westernism really carefully, then poke them about Russia. Answers will surprise you
 
S

Steel

Banned
KRod-57 said:
I have read the thread, and it was her running mate were said that

You use that as a primary example, as if that's the worst thing about her.. interesting. I can name another candidate who supported regime change in Iraq. Who voted for the patriot act twice. Who voted to recognize Iran's revolutionary guard as a terrorist organization (effectively allowing then president Bush to expand the war on terror there). Who supported regime change in Libya. Who suggested the US "green light" an Israeli air strike on Iran's nuclear facilities. Who supported the troops surge in Afghanistan which lead to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th deadliest years of that war. Who condoned a military coup in Honduras to oust an elected leader. Who pushes for regime change in Syria, and who condemned the UN's decision to recognize Palestine's existence.

but forget all that, because Jill Stein's running mate suggested Obama hasn't done enough to help the African American community
Click to expand...

In a cnn town hall it was brought up and jill stein agreed. And no that's not the worst thing. Her anti-GMO stances would kill millions. Her complete disregard for even millitary as a deterent would cause nuclear proliferation and russian expansionism. Her being anti-nuclear power to the point of wanting to discard with even current nuclear power plants would only cause more global warming. Her anti-wifi craziness just shows how tinhat she is. If you think the Uncle Tom thing is the end of it then you haven't read the thread.


As for Jill stein lowkey agreeing with him in a town hall where baraka doubled down on the uncle tom thing:

https://mic.com/articles/151914/jil...-uncle-tom-in-truly-wild-town-hall#.X6jndgG4R

Cuomo then turned to Stein to ask whether she agrees with her running mate's decision to use a slur against Obama.

Stein did not disavow Baraka's response, giving a vague answer with buzzwords.

"I am so grateful that we have an opportunity to go beyond sound bites," Stein said. "And I understand Ajamu's passion, his frustration and his struggle. And I also understand his transcendence and the way in which this is a challenge to us all right now &#8212; to both feel the passion of our struggle but also to be capable of transcending it and connecting with each other, healing our wounds and forging a bigger vision and a bigger community."
Click to expand...
 
R

RustyNails

Member
She is a craven attention seeker with nothing to offer. Like she cums every time she sees her name on TV next to Hillary, Trump and Johnson.
 
Z

Za-Neen-Jya

Member
Look everyone, Jill and Gary are not going to win, and a protest vote for either one of them is only going to inch Trump closer to packing the Supreme Court with ultra conservative justices that will control how we live for the next several decades. It's a chance I don't think anyone should take.

But to be OT, I think Jill and the Green Party have dialed back the fringe lately and have started to look a little bit more like a viable option, or would be if this wasn't one of the most important elections in memory.
 
J

JustenP88

I earned 100 Gamerscore™ for collecting 300 widgets and thereby created Trump's America
TWrecks310 said:
To answer your question, all of her opinions.

Specifically the anti-vax ones.
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Shit like this is part of the reason why our political discourse is so awful.

She's got some fringe stuff she pushes but, overall, I think the most "terrible" thing about her is that Democrats are so terrified of the spoiler they've become just as tribal as I've always thought Republicans were (either you're 100% with us or you're a God damn nazi). Anyone on the left who has the gall to not toe the Democratic line is essentially a turncoat and no better/more useful for their purposes than a Republican would be.
 
S

stupei

Member
Ryuelli said:
She's who I'm going to be voting for. I'm living abroad and my home state is Texas, that's inevitably going red. I don't like Trump or Hillary (but if I was in a battleground state I'd reluctantly vote for her). Johnson is just strange, Stein is pretty odd too though.

At this point, I don't really like any of the candidates, so I'm just going to vote for the 3rd party candidate who has the least chance of getting elected for the simple matter of getting the 3rd party vote count up.
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Yes, definitely the way to strengthen third parties is to demonstrate to them that fringe lunatics are the way to get votes. That will help a lot four years from now.
 
A

Aurongel

Member
She strikes me as anti intellectual when she speaks with authority on scientific and policy topics. I can understand someone not being very familiar with GMOs or modern medicine, but she should recognize her ignorance in those areas and just keep her mouth shut. I perceive that as reckless and dangerous. Her public opinions on science carry a significant amount of sway regardless of their validity.
 
M

Michael F. Assbender

Banned
2016_07_30_14_40_32.jpg


But seriously, fuck her anti-science views and her dog whistles to those with even more extreme views. It's dangerous and completely at odds with the office of the most powerful person on the planet (other than Superman, of course).

And the same goes to anyone who ignores mountains of scientific evidence just to further their political career.
 
N

n00bsauce87

Member
AntraxSuicide said:
One of the worst cultural phenomenons in the US is the idea that no one should ever talk about politics, almost entirely because people don't want to have to defend their shitty political beliefs.
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This.

There should be nothing wrong with discussing politics. It should be pretty healthy to challenge opinions because you get to understand the person you are voting for from a different perspective. Unless you believe the candidate is flawless, you should be able to discuss the criticisms and issues of said candidate.
 
B

bachikarn

Member
Isn't Hilary (one of?) the first major party nominee to run on climate change is a big deal and needs to be addressed? I know Obama has been working to fight it, but I dont remember it being part of his election/reelection platform.

I guess your roommate just think she is lying about caring?
 
O

Ordinaryundone

Member
USC-fan said:
Doesnt matter if we have nukes. We will never use them. Even if we got directly hit. Killing million in returns would never fly.

People get upset when we bomb the wrong target and killing a handful of people. Could you imagine killing millions of people?


what do we gain by staying? Not a very good argument here. You really think the Americans would support a war to defend these nation to begin with? Just look at what happen to ukraine.
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It's called deterrent. Nobody is going to use nukes because other people have them. There are no logical scenarios that are worth using a nuke if it means getting nuked back. However, if you DON'T have nukes, you are at the mercy of those who do. Or, as George Herbert said, one sword keeps another in its sheathe. As for NATO, America fought wars all over the world for DECADES to curb Soviet expansion. You think that they'd stop just because Russia changed their name and promised to be good?
 
F

FrontalMonk

Banned
The problem I run into with Stein is the same problem I run into with Johnson. Even if you don't think she's a lunatic fringe candidate with zero chance of actually winning, she doesn't hold up to my simple voting test: Do I think she can actually deliver on anything she wants to accomplish? The simple answer is no. It's the reason I voted for Clinton over Sanders, and it's the reason I'm voting Clinton in the GE. Because I want someone who can actually make the country better, not just a dreamer with a bunch of pie in the sky ideas that will never see the light of day.
 
T

Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!

Member
It's interesting to me how the "third party that young people vote for" shifted from the Green Party to the Libertarian party. Maybe it was just Ralph Nader everyone liked.
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
USC-fan said:
That's sound like a great idea. Just think if we invested all that money we spent on that in our nation. We could have the best healthcare and education in the world.
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I'm all for reducing military expenditures as well, but the reason we don't have the best healthcare and education in the world has a lot less to do with how much we spend on it and a lot more to do with how we run it. We already spend more than any other nation on health care and get far less in return, so clearly it's not a matter of inputs solely.

Things like more robust social and cultural programs are a bigger issue when it comes to lack of expenditures.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
USC-fan said:
what do we gain by staying? Not a very good argument here. You really think the Americans would support a war to defend these nation to begin with? Just look at what happen to ukraine.
Click to expand...
Look what happened to Ukraine? Ukraine isn't part of NATO. Crimea got invaded. Now the people actually in NATO have Russia breathing down their necks.

How can you be for peace and support backing out of NATO? Do you think it's peace just because we're not involved?
 
N

noshten

Member
FrontalMonk said:
The problem I run into with Stein is the same problem I run into with Johnson. Even if you don't think she's a lunatic fringe candidate with zero chance of actually winning, she doesn't hold up to my simple voting test: Do I think she can actually deliver on anything she wants to accomplish? The simple answer is no. It's the reason I voted for Clinton over Sanders, and it's the reason I'm voting Clinton in the GE. Because I want someone who can actually make the country better, not just a dreamer with a bunch of pie in the sky ideas that will never see the light of day.
Click to expand...

Tell me what portion of Clinton's platform is going to be enacted into law and get back to me with your PIE IN THE SKY idea that Clinton is going to get things done in the current political climate.
 
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