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My roommate was a hardcore Bernie Sanders supporter who switched over to Stein and hasn't looked back since. He likes to make the claim that "I'm voting my conscience, and not voting my fears." If you're in a solid blue or solid red state I don't really have any quarrel with anyone voting for a third party, but it's annoying for me to hear since we both live in the biggest swing state of all (Florida). He tends to cite large cumulative donations from big corporations (and their employees) as the major reason he doesn't like Hillary Clinton. He at least fancies himself as an environmentalist, and particularly doesn't like that a good amount of her money comes from BP and oil companies that have done a lot of damage to the Florida coast. He's gay, and I find it weird that he would essentially hand his vote over to Trump, who has pretty much implied that he'd like to roll back the gay marriage Supreme Court decision, or at least "let every state decide".

I've kinda held my tongue on all this nonsense in favor of domestic tranquility, but at some point I'd like to at least be able to make the case for him abandoning Stein in favor of Clinton. Most people here seem to think Stein is garbage, so please lay out for me the best case against her that you can.

The anti-science stuff seems like a glancing blow. For a while Stein was being cast as an anti-vaxxer but as far as I can tell that rhetoric has been reeled back and was never really that strong to begin with. Her anti-WiFi stance is stupid and embarrassing, but I often see it handwaved away with "Well some European countries are definitely investigating the effects of WiFi on children...we don't know what might happen."

Since he basically seems immune to the idea of how damaging a Trump presidency might be, I'd at least like to be able to express how damaging a Stein presidency might be. I'm not sure if he even entertains the idea that he might win, or if he just feels better throwing away his vote on someone polling at less than 2%. I'm hoping he'll come around now that there's no chance she or Johnson will be in the debates.

 

[notworksafe]

Let him vote how he wants, damn.

 

[GameAddict411]

Buy your friend some aluminum foil.

 

[TWrecks310]

To answer your question, all of her opinions.

Specifically the anti-vax ones.

 

[Mr.Monitor]

Let him vote how he wants, damn.

This. Sucks, and yeah he might be throwing his vote away, but it isn't your vote.

 

[Steel]

For starters she thinks that wifi can cause cancer. She also wants to ban GMOs which would effectively cause mass starvation. She also wants to eliminate all our foreign millitary bases, withdraw from NATO and unilaterally disarm our nukes(I don't really need to outline how stupid of an idea this is, right?). Also she thinks Obama is an Uncle Tom. There's a lot there.

To answer your question, all of her opinions.

Specifically the anti-vax ones.

She's not anti-vax herself but she definitely dog whistles to anti-vaxxers.

 

[rjinaz]

I would say just let him vote for Stein. His vote won't mean anything but least he's not a Trump voter. Sometimes it's just not worth fighting politics with people you know.

I get the impression though that you wanted more viewpoints on Stein for yourself too, which is fine. I'll be interested in the discussion as well.

 

[demon]

To answer your question, all of her opinions.

Specifically the anti-vax ones.

All of them?

 

[Staccat0]

I can appreciate where you are coming from, but I'd leave it alone.

That said, FOR ME, one of the anti-science things about Stien that bugs me is that she is staunchly anti-nuclear. The time for us wringing our hands over nuclear power has passed. We need to make big moves fast. Time is up.

Bernie started to lose my vote when I found out he was anti-nuclear.

I am in the minority's of people who is actually worries about climate change in a near future kinda way though.

 

[Bronx-Man]

I just someone to protect me from Big Wi-Fi

 

[Fat4all]

I just someone to protect me from Big Wi-Fi

I want big-wifi everywhere

that'd be great.

 

[TWrecks310]

All of them?

Okay not all of them you know what I mean.

But she's a terrible candidate only getting the light of day because she's 3rd party in 2016

 

[USC-fan]

She also wants to eliminate all our foreign millitary bases, withdraw from NATO and unilaterally disarm our nukes(I don't really need to outline how stupid of an idea this is, right?).

That's sound like a great idea. Just think if we invested all that money we spent on that in our nation. We could have the best healthcare and education in the world.

 

[Xe4]

The anti-science stuff seems like a glancing blow. For a while Stein was being cast as an anti-vaxxer but as far as I can tell that rhetoric has been reeled back and was never really that strong to begin with. Her anti-WiFi stance is stupid and embarrassing, but I often see it handwaved away with "Well some European countries are definitely investigating the effects of WiFi on children...we don't know what might happen."[/b]

This right here is why I find Stein so offputing. She's an anti-vaxxer, or at the absolute very least, panders to antI vaccine sentiments. Just because she says she likes vaccines doesn't mean her rhetoric isn't dangerous.

Add that to her insane statements about Wifi (which I shouldn't even have to explain why it's rediculous), her bs GMO stance "ban them till science proves they're safe" WTF???, and her anti nuclear stance, which is funny given how much she cares about AGW.

I can't logically support someone who is so anti science. It really leads me to question how well they will tackle other issues. Will they look at the evidence of what works, and try to take a comprehensive, well thought out srance on the issue, or will they just go with their gut, what they think works, despite it being helpful or not? I can firmly ace Stein into the latter category, and that is not ok.

She also wants to eliminate all our foreign millitary bases, withdraw from NATO and unilaterally disarm our nukes(I don't really need to outline how stupid of an idea this is, right?). Also she thinks Obama is an Uncle Tom. There's a lot there.



She's not anti-vax herself but she definitely dog whistles to anti-vaxxers.

Also this, say what you will about America's military, this shit is insane and is how you end up with another iron curtain.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

Can you get him to vote Democrat for the other races? That'd be super helpful since it's really not worth engaging people who "vote their heart" or whatever they say to make themselves feel warm and fuzzy.

 

[Steel]

I can appreciate where you are coming from, but I'd leave it alone.

That said, FOR ME, one of the anti-science things about Stien that bugs me is that she is staunchly anti-nuclear. The time for us wringing our hands over nuclear power has passed. We need to make big moves fast. Time is up.

Bernie started to lose my vote when I found out he was anti-nuclear.

I am in the minority's of people who is actually worries about climate change in a near future kinda way though.

As much as I hate anti-nuclear stances, it's a pretty mainstream position. Jill has some far more crazy positions.

That's sound like a great idea. Just think if we invested all that money we spent on that in our nation. We could have the best healthcare and education in the world.

It'd cause WW3. If we disarm our nukes, every other country has to get their own. If we get out of NATO, Putin starts moving into europe even more than he is. If we cut our millitary, every other country is going to invest more in theirs.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

She thinks nuclear energy plants are actually weapon factories.

She's fine with Ukraine being under Russian control (specifically "don't arm the Ukrainians" which basically translates to "Let the Russians do whatever.")

Close literally all military bases not in the US (NATO allies would love this one!).

9/11 should be investigated (but not for crazy conspiracies, just normal ones).

 

[Staccat0]

That's sound like a great idea. Just think if we invested all that money we spent on that. We could have the best healthcare and education in the world.

Someone is gonna be the schoolyard bully. I'll happily let Norway do it, but unfortunately China and Russia are the only one who really want to take the gig off of our hands. Not worth it.

Being a member of the evil empire has more perks than many people realize.

 

[StarCreator]

I really don't want to support someone who would even entertain anti-vax or anti-nuclear stances. Science has proven both to be safe, and to turn on either is conspiracy theory bullshit at this point. Feeding into the anti-nuclear stigma is signing our own death sentences in terms of climate change too - in the short term, nuclear power is the only consistent power source that doesn't fuck us over.

Hillary's history with nuclear power suggests to me someone who knows it's safe and effective but also wants to avoid talking about it because the stigma against it is too strong. I kind of wish she would just support it openly but maybe that can happen once she's in office and doesn't have to worry about elections for a while.

 

[Azzanadra]

Honestly can't, all of your candidates are pretty terrible, but at least Johnson and Stein aren't warmongers. That said, I'd still vote Clinton (in a swing state) in America just because while I am an idealist and supported Bernie, I am pragmatic as well.

Really you shouldn't have to convince him, he is a free thinking human being--- he should be able to right in Mickey Mouse without your approval if he wanted to.

EDIT: But if you really want something, try this:

If you trusted Sanders to govern the country, perhaps you should place your trust in his judgement on who the second best choice is?

 

[Kangi]

Generally I wouldn't bother trying to sway the political opinions of someone who puts any value in their vote yet wants to spend it on someone who's cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs (and polling behind a dead gorilla). Friend, family, or otherwise.

 

[Wag]

That's sound like a great idea. Just think if we invested all that money we spent on that in our nation. We could have the best healthcare and education in the world.

Stock up on the potassium iodide...

 

[Kevinroc]

Didn't she go on Russian TV (Russian Propaganda) to bash America's foreign policy and human rights violations? While saying nothing about Russia's problems in such areas?

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Let him vote how he wants, damn.

This. Sucks, and yeah he might be throwing his vote away, but it isn't your vote.

One of the worst cultural phenomenons in the US is the idea that no one should ever talk about politics, almost entirely because people don't want to have to defend their shitty political beliefs.

If you want to shoot yourself in the foot with a nail gun, I won't stop you. But damned if I'm going to pat you on the back for shooting yourself in the foot with a nail gun.

 

[Tranqueris]

For starters she thinks that wifi can cause cancer. She also wants to ban GMOs which would effectively cause mass starvation. She also wants to eliminate all our foreign millitary bases, withdraw from NATO and unilaterally disarm our nukes(I don't really need to outline how stupid of an idea this is, right?). Also she thinks Obama is an Uncle Tom. There's a lot there.

Shit like this is so much more sinister after seeing that picture of her sitting with Putin.

 

[Brian_FETO]

"Why don't you see that ______ is the clear only option??? You can't vote for other people on the ballot!"

Democracy

 

[madstarr12]

She has very little governmental experience. I would be terrified of someone as President who had no idea how to even talk to congress.

 

[Macam]

Let him vote how he wants, damn.

.

 

[Fat4all]

"Why don't you see that ______ is the clear only option??? You can't vote for other people on the ballot!"

Democracy

as long as they aren't at gunpoint, yeah its just words

 

[ShironRedshift]

She wants to close all of our foreign military bases:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3ZyyspcLiQ

If he doesn't understand how stupid that is, especially with Putin just waiting for the US to do something like that and give it free reign to do whatever it wants in Ukraine, the Baltics, etc with him already showing he's more than happy to do that with his little demonstration in Crimea, then there's pretty much no hope for him. Like... there's a reason Joe Biden specifically made a trip to the Baltics to reassure them over fears concerning Trump's statements on whether we'll actually honor our commitments to our NATO allies including them regardless of what happens:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-latvia-usa-biden-idUSKCN10Y0ZT
http://www.wsj.com/articles/joe-bid...tes-wary-of-u-s-commitment-to-nato-1471954625

That shit's serious and Putin would jump for joy for an opportunity like that. There's a reason the Vice President had to make a trip like that--you just don't joke about stuff like that, because it's insane. That Jill Stein either doesn't seem to understand that and throws outlandish statements out there without being aware of the consequences or otherwise doesn't care should be disqualifying in of itself.

 

[USC-fan]

As much as I hate anti-nuclear stances, it's a pretty mainstream position. Jill has some far more crazy positions.



It'd cause WW3. If we disarm our nukes, every other country has to get their own. If we get out of NATO, Putin starts moving into europe even more than he is. If we cut our millitary, every other country is going to invest more in theirs.

Doesnt matter if we have nukes. We will never use them. Even if we got directly hit. Killing million in returns would never fly.

People get upset when we bomb the wrong target and killing a handful of people. Could you imagine killing millions of people?

She wants to close all of our foreign military bases:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3ZyyspcLiQ

If he doesn't understand how stupid that is, especially with Putin just waiting for the US to do something like that and give it free reign to do whatever it wants in Ukraine, the Baltics, etc with him already showing he's more than happy to do that with his little demonstration in Crimea, then there's pretty much no hope for him.

what do we gain by staying? Not a very good argument here. You really think the Americans would support a war to defend these nation to begin with? Just look at what happen to ukraine.

 

[Staccat0]

As much as I hate anti-nuclear stances, it's a pretty mainstream position. Jill has some far more crazy positions.

IAnti-nuclear people are literally the fucking worst. The fact that it is mainstream doesn't make it any less fucking insane.

It's like someone throwing you out of a plane and then wringing your hands about whether the parachute you are wearing is made from ethically sourced materials.

The fact we don't throw them in the same bin as anti-vaccers is embarrassing IMO. It's literally the most dangerous strain of bullshit in left wing politics.

 

[Xe4]

"Why don't you see that ______ is the clear only option??? You can't vote for other people on the ballot!"

Democracy

Trying to convince someone that candidate x is the best for the country is how democracy works. I'm not seeing what you're getting at.

That's not to say I'm ok with the US system, but critisizing a candidate, and supporting another is fine, as long as the other group is allowed to do so back.

Doesnt matter if we have nukes. We will never use them. Even if we got directly hit. Killing million in returns would never fly.

People get upset when we bomb the wrong target and killing a handful of people. Could you imagine killing millions of people?

This is precisely why the US needs nukes until we find a way to phase them out as a whole world, which isn't happening in the near future.

MAD is so, so, so important to keep America and the world as a whole safe.

 

[Mercury Fred]

She cheered the Brexit vote.

 

[AxelFoley]

The woman is cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs, OP. Plain and simple.

 

[Steel]

Doesnt matter if we have nukes. We will never use them. Even if we got directly hit. Killing million in returns would never fly.

People get upset when we bomb the wrong target and killing a handful of people. Could you imagine killing millions of people?

I think you need to look into why Obama got the nobel peace prize. We keep nukes around so other people don't use nukes. If we didn't have nukes other people will use nukes. It's a deterrent and not something to use. Not using them is the point.

IAnti-nuclear people are literally the fucking worst. The fact that it is mainstream doesn't make it any less fucking insane.

It's like someone throwing you out of a plane and then wringing your hands about whether the parachute you are wearing is made from ethically sourced materials.

The fact we don't throw them in the same bin as anti-vaccers is embarrassing IMO. It's literally the most dangerous strain of bullshit in left wing politics.

I'd put them a few tiers above anti-vaxxers, but we're definitely on the same page in our disdain.

 

[Messofanego]

I want big-wifi everywhere

that'd be great.

Yes, I need some Big Wifi in me.

 

[Metalingus5150]

I have a friend who is a jill supporter and constantly posts that Hillary is a war monger and kills kids. What's that coming from?

 

[Brian_FETO]

Trying to convince someone that candidate x is the best for the country is how democracy works. I'm not seeing what you're getting at.

That's not to say I'm ok with the US system, but critisizing a candidate, and supporting another is fine, as long as the other group is allowed to do so back.

It's more the current state of this election than anything. It's currently "reality TV Hitler" vs "hey at least it isn't reality TV Hitler", and the other options are "hey you're throwing away your vote, may as well vote for Reality TV Hitler while you're at it"

 

[ESBL]

She's a doctor that doesn't believe in science.

 

[Staccat0]

I have a friend who is a jill supporter and constantly posts that Hillary is a war monger and kills kids. What's that coming from?

She voted for the Iraq war and was Secretary of State during wartime. Jill Stien has had the luxury of never having to make a serious decision with no clear answers.

 

[border]

Let him vote how he wants, damn.

This. Sucks, and yeah he might be throwing his vote away, but it isn't your vote.

I would say just let him vote for Stein. His vote won't mean anything but least he's not a Trump vote.

I can appreciate where you are coming from, but I'd leave it alone.

To be fair, I'm not planning to berate and lecture him daily on the basis of his position. But it's election season, debates are happening, and political discussion is going to be unavoidable. In the unavoidable instance that this discussion happens, I'd at least like to be able to defend my support of Clinton and explain why I think supporting Stein is a dead end. I don't intend to be on the offensive, but at least want to be able to mount a solid defense.

That said, I do find his "I'm not voting my fears" rhetoric to be pretty snide and condescending. Picking the lesser of two evils is still admirable, if only because you're preventing the greater of two evils from rising to power.

 

[Steel]

It's more the current state of this election than anything. It's currently "reality TV Hitler" vs "hey at least it isn't reality TV Hitler", and the other options are "hey you're throwing away your vote, may as well vote for Reality TV Hitler while you're at it"

Let's be real. Jill would be a worse option than even Trump with her anti-GMO positions. Fortunately she doesn't have a chance in hell of being elected.

She's a doctor that doesn't believe in science.

She's in good company.

 

[Piecake]

Jill Stein Flips stance on Brexit - likely after she realizes her supporters don't agree with her stance

Deleted tweet praising Elie Wiesel and firm anti-vax tweet - Why delete an Elie Wiesel? My guess is she was pandering to a certain segment on the left...

Thinks neoliberalism caused nazism - pretty good overview article of reasons not to vote for Stein

Went with Ajamu Baraka as her Vice President, who is just fucking nuts, by engaging in wild conspiracy theories and just some rather fucked up stances for a supposed human rights activist.

Twelve Reasons NOT to Vote for Jill Stein & Ajamu Baraka


The highlight of that article is this

1) Jill Stein is a fraud. Check out her list of campaign contributors per the FEC. The top five donations are from corporate interests -- AON, Xoom Global Money Transfer, IBM, Thoughtworks, and UPS. Would Bernie take money from any of these? http://votesmart.org/candidate/campaign-finance/35775/jill-stein

Basically she is an opportunist, hypocritical panderer who believes in some crazy conspiratorial shit and has a VP who is even more nuts.

 

[Azzanadra]

I have a friend who is a jill supporter and constantly posts that Hillary is a war monger and kills kids. What's that coming from?

All the interventions probably, and she will ramp up Obama's drone strike program which already kills kids... so I guess he's right. Not that any president will have the luxury of never getting blood on their hands, but Hillary is more hawkish than the average politician.

 

[Toxi]

She's a doctor that doesn't believe in science.

To be fair, so was Ben Carson.

 

[VendettaRed07]

It's that she is legitimately clueless. She has no experience at all and generally has no idea what she is talking about. She left the only office she was ever elected to (state town council) in order to haplessly run for President for no other reason other than to be the face of a protest vote. She takes positions she feels she should be taking on subjects she is simply not educated in; hence why she supported brexit as "sticking it to the establishment".

She doesn't want to be president. Is not qualified to be president. Isn't interested in actually making a difference by getting her hands dirty by going through the drudge of state politics and just wants to hang back, wait for all the praise and admiration from special snow flakes who are so thankful that she is a warm body who isn't one of the big two once every four years

 

[Xe4]

It's more the current state of this election than anything. It's currently "reality TV Hitler" vs "hey at least it isn't reality TV Hitler", and the other options are "hey you're throwing away your vote, may as well vote for Reality TV Hitler while you're at it"

Unfortunately, that's the nature of politics, especially for such a polarizing election.

And the throwing away of vote on third party candidates is an inevitable consequence of a FPTP system.

 

[Laieon]

She's who I'm going to be voting for. I'm living abroad and my home state is Texas, that's inevitably going red. I don't like Trump or Hillary (but if I was in a battleground state I'd reluctantly vote for her). Johnson is just strange, Stein is pretty odd too though.

At this point, I don't really like any of the candidates, so I'm just going to vote for the 3rd party candidate who has the least chance of getting elected for the simple matter of getting the 3rd party vote count up.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

She voted for the Iraq war and was Secretary of State during wartime. Jill Stien has had the luxury of never having to make a serious decision with no clear answers.

This. Stein, if made President, would have to make calls like whether or not to take out Bin Laden, and either call gets somebody killed (either Bin Laden or future targets of his).